Are you sure about that? I read somewhere that the flight controls are being re-designed from the ground up for all vehicles.
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Star Wars Battlefront II (Nov 17th, 2017, PC/XB1/PS4) trailer, info, more
- Thread starter Drayco21
- Start date
Are you sure about that? I read somewhere that the flight controls are being re-designed from the ground up for all vehicles.
prag16
Banned
I definitely do not agree that Battlefront 2015 had "such a low skill ceiling". And things like hipfire spread and movement penalties are not inexorably tied to skill. I guess you can call it "depth" in a way, but to me it's just a different style.
Exactly. For me personally, this was the reason I ultimately only put around 40 hours into the multiplayer had to do with these factors. But the actual gunplay was on fucking point.
Psychoward
Banned
Yeah this is the point that needs to be made, both shooters with hipfire spread and movement penalties and shooters without have been around for decades. One or the other isn't explicitly more skillful than the other, it all depends on the final game.
Like, iron sights have been in videogames since Operation Flashpoint (2001) if my google fu is correct.
No I wasn't sure actually, sounds great if true.spectator said:
When did I say that people stopped playing due to recoil? I said that boring and plain gameplay makes people lose interest in a game quickly, that and lack of content and redundant game modes are the things that caused most of the player base to drop in the first few months.
Also, you are wrong about player base dropping, sure all player bases drop as time passes on but when you have huge drops just a few months after your big AAA MP game comes out it really becomes a problem, the game is not engaging enough. Rainbow Six Siege is a great example of the exact opposite, the player base is increasing instead of dropping and that makes for a great MP experience that is getting better and better even after a year of releasing.
At the moment in terms of MP games the more competitive and higher skill ceiling seem to be doing much better than the more casual ones.
Right, I thought Criterion rebuilt the entire system.
NippleViking
Banned
I wonder how you earn Epic Abilities. If they're on a short timer that will be horrid, but if they behave like Overwatch's Ultimates I don't mind this change.
Im_So_Pringles
Member
Yeah. Evolved to be much shittier. There is much more skill and depth to be found in shooters that don't make you stand still to shoot accurately.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Most people didn't drop the game because of the combat. They dropped it because their Pavlovian conditioning wasn't being fulfilled by the low amount of unlocks and progression in the game. I'll always shake my fist at COD4 for making that kind of stuff common in shooters.
I think I heard about the gunplay being a complaint as well.=O
VonGreckler
Member
I'm guessing they are probably like the upgraded Star Cards from the first game, just locked down to a specific class. Three of the listed ones in the deluxe edition are:
-Epic Thermal Detonator Ability
-Epic Laser Trip Mine Ability
-Epic Personal Shield Ability
These were all Star Cards in the original game. (Well, Laser Trip was DLC)
SmackAttack
Member
Oh, COME ON. WHY?
Psychoward
Banned
http://battlefront.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Card
http://www.ign.com/wikis/star-wars-battlefront-2015/Emotes
http://www.ign.com/wikis/star-wars-battlefront-2015/Alien_Heads
The last one doesn't have the DLC heads either.
Lee Chaolan
Member
Anyone pre-order on PSN yet? I wanna see the theme you get for pre-ordering it.
Lee Chaolan
Member
Thank you kindly.
As for the theme, yikes, how lazy. Just the cover to the Deluxe Edition. Not custom Star Wars music. Not even a different picture between top or bottom.
They could have done soooo much more.
Very disappointed. Even the still Wallpapers from B1 with Luke, Vader, Leia and Han were far better.
CloudyTuba
Member
If I remember correctly, Criterion Games is helping revise the vehicle controls. I didn't read that they were being completely redesigned, but you're not necessarily wrong.
Criterion developed the X-Wing VR mission, and that game had an entirely different flight model than the main Battlefront game. I expect an evolution of that engine.
JimiNutz
Banned
Having played Battlefront last night for the first time in months (on a fresh account as well with no unlocks). The only thing I hope they really change is the way that you are completely powerless at the start.
Unlocks are great for keeping players addicted but you have to make the newly starting players on a somewhat even playing field as well.
Hopefully most of the unlocks are cosmetic skins/taunts/player emblems etc. because the game currently sucks for new players. Maybe you could also unlock modes so that new players are funneled into two or three modes rather than spread out among many?
Unlocks are great for keeping players addicted but you have to make the newly starting players on a somewhat even playing field as well.
Hopefully most of the unlocks are cosmetic skins/taunts/player emblems etc. because the game currently sucks for new players. Maybe you could also unlock modes so that new players are funneled into two or three modes rather than spread out among many?
VincentMatts
Member
Im not saying there isnt a place for that style of game. What im saying is that those games arent showing a big population or selling particularly well these days.
Doom hasnt been selling well, GOTY or not, and SW BF basically sold on the license alone. Take the license out and that game is average at best PLUS add to that that the population dropped like flies. Both of those are indications that its not a good idea to do that if you want your game to have longevity.
Is there a guarantee that the four classes are the *only* playable classes?
Iirc droidekas were in the first BFII but not everyone could grab them.
I could see maps having the base 4 plus one that's map dependent. The ability to customize the standard troops means that people would probably pick the 5th class if the were actually good as it.
Like how tf would I even customize a destroyer droid and how many colors could a shadow trooper actually be.
I hope they still have the cool classes in, CIS was the best faction
Iirc droidekas were in the first BFII but not everyone could grab them.
I could see maps having the base 4 plus one that's map dependent. The ability to customize the standard troops means that people would probably pick the 5th class if the were actually good as it.
Like how tf would I even customize a destroyer droid and how many colors could a shadow trooper actually be.
I hope they still have the cool classes in, CIS was the best faction
SuperEpicMan
Banned
I think we will see droidekas function in a similar way to the Death Troopers and Imperial Guards from the first game, except not tied to a specific hero.
That'd be perfect honestly. I feel like the ability to customize classes like that would dilute their niche
SuperEpicMan
Banned
Yeah absolutely, also I really hope we see some other playable things such as Ewoks.
I couldn't remember whether Ewoks were playable in the original games so I looked it up on youtube, but discovered this instead lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4D4SShULDo
MilkyJoe
Member
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Won't be surprised if they're resource based like heroes and vehicles. Play well and you earn enough to play as a Droideka (or Death Trooper or Royal Guard).
Psychoward
Banned
But like, it doesn't even take that much to do it? Like it could easily be patched in, it's basically just glorified bot matches with some continuity added. They better at least have normal CQ for mp, Supremacy was an awful meatgrinder of a mode.
I think what makes Overwatch work is that it has characters for all types of skillsets in a way that a game like Battlefront doesn't.
Like I can't pick a character with autoaim or someone who just heals in Battlefront, unless something has changed.
The game also doesn't score you in a very friendly way with the leaderboard by hiding things like KD ratio and rewarding team support actions.
This is what I feel a lot of people miss when they talk about a game like Quake and then point to Overwatch as evidence there's an audience for this. It's an extremely different experience for players who are not good at dragging a cursor onto a moving target, especially while moving themselves.
Like I can't pick a character with autoaim or someone who just heals in Battlefront, unless something has changed.
The game also doesn't score you in a very friendly way with the leaderboard by hiding things like KD ratio and rewarding team support actions.
This is what I feel a lot of people miss when they talk about a game like Quake and then point to Overwatch as evidence there's an audience for this. It's an extremely different experience for players who are not good at dragging a cursor onto a moving target, especially while moving themselves.
VincentMatts
Member
Apparently, we live in a world now where Doom plays like Overwatch. Ive seen it all.
Psychoward
Banned
What are you even talking about dude lol
You said that hipfire being effected by movement is a gameplay evolution but there are plenty of games still being released today that have no such thing and play very differently with high or low skill ceilings
it's not a direct gameplay evolution like you're implying, it's just a different shooting model for different types of games
Also gonna need a source for DOOM not selling well lol
VincentMatts
Member
A game like Battlefront has absolutely nothing in common with a game like Overwatch other than the fact that in both, people use guns. If you absolutely want to make the comparison, then it would be this: the gameplay and gametypes for BF would have more in common with the way a game like Doom plays (which someone else brought up) than a game like Overwatch.
Comparing Doom to Overwatch would be like comparing Rugby to Football because they both have similarities. Different sports. BF will never work like overwatch because its not supposed to play like overwatch. What a bone headed comparison.
And here: http://www.********.com/game/83086/doom-2016/Global/
Global Total as of 18th Mar 2017 (units): 1.96m
Anything else? A coffee maybe?
matrixman92
Member
I hope scorpio is out in time for this
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
We've got Star Wars Battlefront II and a World War II Call of Duty this year, all we need now is Battlefield 1944 next year and I'll be in multiplayer heaven.
I can't really believe I'm having to explain this to you, but I never made a comparison between Doom and Overwatch. I was simply pointing out that Overwatch indeed rejects the way that aiming works in pretty much every shooter since Call of Duty 4 came out, and is highly popular. Overwatch is not similar to Battlefront, nor similar to Doom. It is however a perfect example of the fact that you can stray away from CoD style gunplay without destroying your game.
My stance would be that EA should try and keep Battlefront's shooting unique and I thought the way the guns worked in Dice's first attempt was extremely refreshing. It lacked depth, which was problematic, but they can surely find ways to add depth that don't involve homogenising the mechanics towards the way that Battlefield or Call of Duty work. In particular, I would like to see them keep a system where aiming down sights is only necessary for seeing better.
HellforLeather
Member
TyMiles2012
Member
Most definitely. BF1 runs nowhere near as expected on my i5-4670K @4GHz and 390X. The game's a massive CPU hog. I'll just keep playing Battlefield 3.
Indeed Overwatch is very different to all of those games - and as I said above I wasn't pointing it out because of its similarities - but simply because it shows that you can change things up and still find success. The shooter market has been struggling horribly with homogeniety ever since Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare released in 2007, and while most shooters have a USP it is shocking how many elements of that game exist in every major multiplayer shooter. Making the guns feel so distinctly not like modern assault rifles is one of the best things DICE did with Battlefront. It would be a shame if they lost that. They need to find more ways to differentiate weapons from each other - but please God not by adding aim-down-sights and hip-fire recoil mechanics. Yuk.
On the issue of scoring, I really wish other shooters would take note of what Blizzard do with the scoring, medals, play of the game, and card voting. It is a much more interesting, informative, and positive way of delivering statistics. I am pretty good at shooters but I am so tired of spreadsheet style leaderboards sorted by some utterly arbitrary scoring system. Every single game that implements a points based scoring system assigns arbitrary numbers of points to an arbitrary set of actions, and it leads to people's contributions being both underrepresented and overrepresented. It leads to people playing to boost their score and their kill death ratio rather than working towards the team victory. It's ghastly, and should be consigned to history. The more elaborate the system, the worse it tends to be.
prag16
Banned
Toni
Member
Wow, what a douche ass interview.
Psychoward
Banned
... along with being incredibly condescending, posting a banned source and using 1.96m sales as a "bad number" you're still not grasping my point lol
here's what you said in regards to hipfire not being affected by movement which is what started this argument in the first place
VincentMatts said:
Which is implying that not having recoil affected by movement is dumbing down a game for the kids instead of just being a different design decision. I used DOOM 2016 as a counter example, hardly a shooting game for kids yet no recoil effected by movement.
And you said
VincentMatts said:
Again implying that gameplay has evolved past recoil being effected by movement, and not it just being a different design choice. And then I again iterated that it is just a different way of designing a shooter and threw in Overwatch as another successful example. Not implying that it plays similar to DOOM or that it has the same audience as DOOM. Just using it as a counter example to your outrageous claim that "gameplay has evolved" past recoil not being changed by movement.
So DOOM apparently wasn't a success despite selling a lot and getting amazing critical reviews and fan feedback, and Overwatch doesn't count as an example of a shooter success that doesn't have movement based recoil because it doesn't play like DOOM? Who even made that argument? What are you even talking about?
Lord of Castamere
Member
Instead we'll probably get a 6 hour long campaign, that had way to much money pumped into it, you'll only play once, and never touch again.
Quality.
Yeah, this game might still be being made by the wrong people, just like the last one.
You are moving the goalposts.
You said that shooting while moving without penalty was a dumbed down mechanic for kids: "Dumbing a game down for the kids is never a good idea"
That games have "evolved" since then - implying it is an outdated and inferior mechanic: "Gameplay has evolved since then."
You also said that people drop games with such mechanics: "Thats exactly battlefront 1 was and most people dropped it real fast."
Overwatch proves these assertions false.
So now you are acting as if Overwatch was meant as a comparison to other games.
No, it was mentioned to prove your specific assertions false.
Gravemind IV
Member
Going to weigh in on the gunplay discussion. I really hope they don't stray too far from the gunplay from the first Battlefront, I actually quite enjoyed it. I personally enjoyed the ability to still strafe and roll and whatnot and keep on shooting, I barely ever actually aimed down the sights because the only benefit was the added zoom.
If they start introducing actual benefits to ADS related to recoil and whatnot, that's going to slowdown gameplay substantially I am afraid.
Add more variety in terms of blasters? Sure! But leave the hipfire as is.
If they start introducing actual benefits to ADS related to recoil and whatnot, that's going to slowdown gameplay substantially I am afraid.
Add more variety in terms of blasters? Sure! But leave the hipfire as is.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
How can you infer that from the interview? Or even say that about the last one? They were extremely faithful to the original as far as they had the time and resources to be. Who else has the chops to make Battlefront, especially within EA?
JimiNutz
Banned
I think most people agree with you on this. They can tweak the gunplay a little bit by maybe adding a small amount of recoil so that you maybe have to aim down sights over a long distance but close quarters and mid range exchanges should definitely still be viable with hip fire and they should also have a proper combat roll this time rather than the clumsy roll that they patched in later.
If they fuck with the gunplay too much so that hipfire isn't viable then they have failed to preserve one of the best aspects of the original.
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