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[LordCBH]

Sony needs to make a deal NOW to get Gamepass and physical al la cart Xbox studios sales on PS. This is when your negotiating position will be strongest. You don't wait until their sales start improving and come groveling.

You say now, when you're at your strongest and they at their weakest that, yeah we'll let Gamepass on here, but we get a cut of every sub on OUR hardware. Also only your studio's games cause we are not cutting into third party sales on our platform. ALSO you offer them full price on our store with our usual cut AND physical copies must be sold. Take it

Eventually Xbox sales will improve which is precisely why it needs to be now. When the ball starts rolling from all these studios you will have missed your opportunity

Put down the crack pipe.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Sony needs to make a deal NOW to get Gamepass and physical al la cart Xbox studios sales on PS. This is when your negotiating position will be strongest. You don't wait until their sales start improving and come groveling.

You say now, when you're at your strongest and they at their weakest that, yeah we'll let Gamepass on here, but we get a cut of every sub on OUR hardware. Also only your studio's games cause we are not cutting into third party sales on our platform. ALSO you offer them full price on our store with our usual cut AND physical copies must be sold. Take it

Eventually Xbox sales will improve which is precisely why it needs to be now. When the ball starts rolling from all these studios you will have missed your opportunity

That's exactly what they shouldn't be doing.

It'll be Microsoft that'll go cap in hand to Sony and Nintendo but they won't ever publicly announce it. I'm not expecting a big press release about it, but I think we'll just see more and more games announced as multiplat over time.

That way the nutters on twitter will boil alive slowly without realising.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

W...what? My god ...why would Sony make MS even stronger? And make them weaker? That way they will have less sales on their own platform, lmao.


What financial issues? Sony was never this good lmao.

Negotiate from a position of strength to get a sweet deal for yourself. If they wait until Xbox sales improve they'll have to take a worse deal.

Don't include anything other than Xbox first party stuff in a nerfed version of Gamepass and take your own cut of any subs that are in your platform. Easy money for Sony and get the games on your platform in that way plus a la carte

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

That's exactly what they shouldn't be doing.

It'll be Microsoft that'll go cap in hand to Sony and Nintendo but they won't ever publicly announce it. I'm not expecting a big press release about it, but I think we'll just see more and more games announced as multiplat over time.

That way the nutters on twitter will boil alive slowly without realising.

Hopefully though I think Ms will wait and pour more azure and windows and office money in until they get better console sales. Then they will be negotiating from strength instead of Sony eventually.

 

[Kerotan]

The Xbox One underperformed, but I would say it sold enough to not be a flop (it was far above Wii U, Vita, GameCube etc.)

Right now the Switch line up looks very very light, so it depends on what else Nintendo announces and whether they are willing to cut the price.

I believe so yes.

I guess it depends on the price both Nintendo and MS go for.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Hopefully though I think Ms will wait and pour more azure and windows and office money in until they get better console sales. Then they will be negotiating from strength instead of Sony eventually.

I don't think console sales will improve. They are already losing $100-$200 on every series X sold. They've spent $70b plus on software.

They can't keep all that software exclusive because they won't make their budget back on dwindling hardware while their competitors barely make an effort and hit 100m+ every time.

Being the biggest publisher worldwide should be their aim now. Much more money in that.

 

[Woopah]

If Switchs 2 and PS5 Pro comes out next year, it’s going to be fun to watch.

I don't see next year as a anything other than a PS5 victory. Switch 2 could potentially win 2025 or 2026 though.

I am confused as to how Sony is selling all of those consoles but they are having financial issues?

They don't have financial issues, they just have lower profit margins than investors would like due to their business model and, accounting practices.

I guess it depends on the price both Nintendo and MS go for.

Indeed. Right now Switch and Xbox Series are at similar price, but that might change in the new fiscal year.

 

[LordCBH]

If they wait until Xbox sales improve

We’ve seen enough evidence to show that likely won’t happen.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

I don't think console sales will improve. They are already losing $100-$200 on every series X sold. They've spent $70b plus on software.

They can't keep all that software exclusive because they won't make their budget back on dwindling hardware while their competitors barely make an effort and hit 100m+ every time.

Being the biggest publisher worldwide should be their aim now. Much more money in that.

As evidenced by the publisher they just bought making so much more profit than them lol so I hope you're right and they just give up on hardware

 

[John Wick]

So you're saying Xbox could be even lower?

MS, Xbox and Phil Spencer are an embarrassment. Even Don Mattrick achieved better with far less money and studios.
MS answer is always stifle and stop competition. Then play the victim and cry to the FTC etc and then buy your way to dominance. Except Sony and Nintendo...........

 

[Skifi28]

How far back in history do you want to go? Back in the year 1999-2000 or so, Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer were worried that Sony's control of the living room could be a threat to Windows if Sony ever tried to extend their dominance in consumers electronics to computers. The original purpose of the "DirectX Box" was to establish a beachhead in the living room and extend the Windows monopoly there to do battle with Sony, thus killing 2 birds with one stone. MS never cared about gaming, they only cared about finding a reason to fight with Sony.

Of course, Sony has never been interested in doing battle with Windows or MS, and in fact Sony instead decided to become a large media conglomerate which has nothing to do with markets MS traditionally occupied. On the other hand, MS has repeatedly attempted to invade consumer electronics. They tried to attack spinning round movie discs when they fought in the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray format war, a war that forced Sony to enlist literally the entire consumer electronics industry in a never before seen total alliance to fight MS and Toshiba. Microsoft's other ill-fated forays into battlefields beyond their monopoly strongholds include such luminary products like Zune, Surface, and Windows Phone.

Meanwhile, the Xbox brand has become probably the most important consumer-facing brand that MS has, and since nobody likes Windows and Office they have put a lot of resources into Xbox as it's also used to help improve the company's overall consumer image. The failure of Xbox is bad for the company's brand and reputation because without Xbox, MS is just that monopolist who forces everyone on Earth to resentfully use Windows and Office.

MS has spent untold hundreds of billions of US Dollars over the past few decades invading markets they have no genuine financial interest in just because quite frankly they have too much money and nothing to do with it and monopolists like to jump at shadows thinking they are threats. Sony was never a threat to MS, don't fucking care about MS, and would like it if MS fucking just leaves them alone. Meanwhile MS acts like Sony is some existential threat. It beggars belief but that's how monopolists view the world and MS is an exemplary monopolist.

Insane post, it's a shame I can only like it once.

It goes far beyond Xbox vs Sony, I wish everybody cheerleading for MS and their acquisitions had a look at their entire history and practices.

 

[TheGodfather07]

What will be the first Microsoft first party game that will be announced as coming to multiple platforms? It's gonna happen. It has to. Otherwise Microsoft are sending these games out to instantly die.

 

[bitbydeath]

I've been getting shit from some users for connecting the dots and mentioning them. There's no smoke without fire for me.

I think they’ll test the waters with it, and not mention it as being the future of Xbox. A live thought experiment if you will.

 

[LordOcidax]

I don't see next year as a anything other than a PS5 victory. Switch 2 could potentially win 2025 or 2026 though.

Talking about PS5 Pro vs Switch 2… Switch 2 easily.

 

[StealthGoblin]

I think they’ll test the waters with it, and not mention it as being the future of Xbox. A live thought experiment if you will.

Exactly my thoughts. It'll come across that way but the drip will become a torrent.

We've already had one of their indie IP they own and published be announced for MP development and I think the situation with Blade is telling.

If I had to bet we'll see Bethesda and ABK games all get announced as multiplat, and at an extreme end, possibly something like Master Chief collection as that's a gateway into Halo. I've no info on that at all to be clear, but that's the strategy I'd take.

______

From a PR perspective a lot of the groundwork has been laid in the wake of the ABK fiasco. Saying you want games everywhere, your CEO saying they don't like exclusivity, that PlayStation and Nintendo are important markets etc...

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Negotiate from a position of strength to get a sweet deal for yourself. If they wait until Xbox sales improve they'll have to take a worse deal.

What...? There's no signs that's ever happening. Xbox lost, Xbox One lost, Series S/X lost and the 360 lost even though MS released their console a year earlier and 200$ cheaper. It's been 20 years...

Gamepass has also been a thing for 7 years and it's yet to do...anything really.

I really don't think Sony cares.

 

[mayham2199]

Negotiate from a position of strength to get a sweet deal for yourself. If they wait until Xbox sales improve they'll have to take a worse deal.

The problem is your whole premise is based off Xbox sales improving and I've seen nothing to show me that's going to happen. In fact everything points to the opposite happening. Even people who who knows Xbox hardware sales would drop with the GP move have been surprised by just how bad consoles sales are getting.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Talking about PS5 Pro vs Switch 2… Switch 2 easily.

If we're arbitrarily leaving out the other PS5 models, maybe. But since console sales don't work like that, the PS5 will take the year with little trouble (with/without a Pro).

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

The problem is your whole premise is based off Xbox sales improving and I've seen nothing to show me that's going to happen. In fact everything points to the opposite happening. Even people who who knows Xbox hardware sales would drop with the GP move have been surprised by just how bad consoles sales are getting.

Well I hope you're right as they're controlling too much they had no hand in making for my taste and already have a stranglehold on PC with everything running on windows. I would feel more comfortable as a gamer if they were just a non hardware manufacturing publisher

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

What...? There's no signs that's ever happening. Xbox lost, Xbox One lost, Series S/X lost and the 360 lost even though MS released their console a year earlier and 200$ cheaper. It's been 20 years...

Gamepass has also been a thing for 7 years and it's yet to do...anything really.

I really don't think Sony cares.

They control so many popular IP now though. Doom, elder scrolls, Diablo, eventually COD, etc. all being exclusive can swing that real easy

 

[Reallink]

They really really really fucked up wasting the alleged vast majority of Series X silicon on Cloud gaming servers back when they actually had unprecedented console demand and momentum due to shortages, covid, and dumbass Sony lowering production over their forecasted recession.

 

[Ar¢tos]

They control so many popular IP now though. Doom, elder scrolls, Diablo, eventually COD, etc. all being exclusive can swing that real easy

ATK IPs aren't enough to secure a market position.
It's delusional to think that way, specially if you need to wait 10 years to implement that plan (because COD is the IP that really matters) and then wait another year to see the result.
I'm not sure Xbox as a platform can survive 10 years.

 

[Crayon]

They control so many popular IP now though. Doom, elder scrolls, Diablo, eventually COD, etc. all being exclusive can swing that real easy

It's just as likely fortunes swing for those ip. Their reach will be devastated. Starfield was in development for a very long time and they threw a projected 10 million sales right out the window. That's not just money gone but also a hit to bethesda's relevance. As far as we know, the next big release is doom and the next huge one is es6. They are possibly doing more damage to those ip's than they are good for console sales. And for no good reason, really.

 

[Topher]

They control so many popular IP now though. Doom, elder scrolls, Diablo, eventually COD, etc. all being exclusive can swing that real easy

COD is the only one that matters and it won't be exclusive.

 

[Woopah]

Talking about PS5 Pro vs Switch 2… Switch 2 easily.

Probably yes, but we might never know as Sony doesn't always give hardware breakdowns by model.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Talking about PS5 Pro vs Switch 2… Switch 2 easily.

I can still see both doing extremely well. However I'm sure Sony is expecting the base PS5 model to be their biggest seller. Can't really see the PS5 (all models) doing badly over the next two years. The Series are the only ones I see doing much worse but how much is the real question.

No offense intended. Just how I see things.

 

[StealthGoblin]

They control so many popular IP now though. Doom, elder scrolls, Diablo, eventually COD, etc. all being exclusive can swing that real easy

Those ABK IP won't be exclusive. There's no way they'll forgo the huge userbases on PlayStation and a much more capable Switch successor.

They need to make a return on that ABK deal as it'll be heavily scrutinised. Cutting out the largest addressable console markets when people are looking at that revenue keenly is foolish.

ABK revenue alone can offset the losses made by the Xbox arm. That's a good safety net to have.

Above all else, PlayStation and Nintendo gamers BUY a lot of games. It's better to have 70% of $70 than it is to have 100% of nothing.
________________

Sony are worried about Microsoft's position in gaming but not Xbox. It's Microsoft's control of the cloud, the operating system, battle.net, and a lot of IP that binds them a bit. As Sony are looking to grow into PC and Mobile, places where Microsoft have a strong presence or an easier route to success, that's where Sony's concerns will lie.

Xbox has proven no match for PlayStation (and Nintendo) because they haven't linked successful, genre defining IP to their machines for long enough and they can't do now as everything is on PC.

When you think of Mario it's a Nintendo console, when you think of Kratos it's a playstation console..for a long time Halo was Xbox Xbox Xbox but now we've got more and more people whose experiences are on PC for their big IP.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

It's just as likely fortunes swing for those ip. Their reach will be devastated. Starfield was in development for a very long time and they threw a projected 10 million sales right out the window. That's not just money gone but also a hit to bethesda's relevance. As far as we know, the next big release is doom and the next huge one is es6. They are possibly doing more damage to those ip's than they are good for console sales. And for no good reason, really.

I know I'm not moving consoles or rewarding them if they remove those IP from PS. I like em but not enough to reward MS for taking them away front be console audience that has helped them get as big as they are

 

[Crayon]

I know I'm not moving consoles or rewarding them if they remove those IP from PS. I like em but not enough to reward MS for taking them away front be console audience that has helped them get as big as they are

For a few it will be that kind of choice but for many many more, they are deciding which game to buy out of 3 or 4 choices anyhow. Why pick the one that requires another console? Maybe if it was an absolute must have, but is doom that? Is fable? Forza Horizon? Maybe es6 but who knows what the landscape looks like by then.

 

[Tomi]

ps5 is killing it

what's happening with xbox?

 

[Imtjnotu]

Ps5 won't Be stopped this gen

 

[Crayon]

I REALLY hope switch 2 is able to get lots of 3rd-party major releases. That will be an interesting shakeup.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

For a few it will be that kind of choice but for many many more, they are deciding which game to buy out of 3 or 4 choices anyhow. Why pick the one that requires another console? Maybe if it was an absolute must have, but is doom that? Is fable? Forza Horizon? Maybe es6 but who knows what the landscape looks like by then.

True and given the cadence of release for elder scrolls and fallout, unless MS starts to exert some pressure, they just don't come out often

 

[DenchDeckard]

I'm surprised there hasn't been any update from that Chris doing fellow around the xbox fire sale pricing.

Or I haven't seen anything.

I guess we won't hear anything until we are in January?

 

[Woopah]

I'm surprised there hasn't been any update from that Chris doing fellow around the xbox fire sale pricing.

Or I haven't seen anything.

I guess we won't hear anything until we are in January?

Do you mean Chris Dring? We'll get software sales for week 51 in the UK soon.

But hardware numbers are usually saved for the monthly reports, and we won't get them until January.

 

[{insert code here}]

Insane post, it's a shame I can only like it once.

It goes far beyond Xbox vs Sony, I wish everybody cheerleading for MS and their aquisitions had a look at their entire history and practices.

They just posted the tip of the iceberg. You really wanna see some wild shit look into the antitrust case against ms during the late 90's and everything that spawned from it.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Sony needs to make a deal NOW to get Gamepass and physical al la cart Xbox studios sales on PS. This is when your negotiating position will be strongest. You don't wait until their sales start improving and come groveling.

You say now, when you're at your strongest and they at their weakest that, yeah we'll let Gamepass on here, but we get a cut of every sub on OUR hardware. Also only your studio's games cause we are not cutting into third party sales on our platform. ALSO you offer them full price on our store with our usual cut AND physical copies must be sold. Take it

Eventually Xbox sales will improve which is precisely why it needs to be now. When the ball starts rolling from all these studios you will have missed your opportunity

I see where you're coming from.

But I don't think Xbox consoles sales are going to improve. Sony knows that, too, and they're betting on that fact, instead of providing a path of resurgence to Xbox. If Xbox does get millions of new subscribers to Game Pass off of PlayStation and becomes super strong, what's stopping them from acquiring even more publishers and removing content from PlayStation? What if they decide that all games of the new publishers they bought will not be a part of the Game Pass tier that gets offered on PlayStation?

At the moment, it is Microsoft that wants GP on PlayStation because their growth has stalled. Sony sees this. And if Microsoft fails to grow Xbox and Game Pass (which they already have to an extent), there is a strong possibility that they just go away altogether.

Imagine a $130 billion company beating a $2,000 billion company so bad that they had to quit the industry!

That's the win Sony is after.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

I see where you're coming from.

But I don't think Xbox consoles sales are going to improve. Sony knows that, too, and they're betting on that fact, instead of providing a path of resurgence to Xbox. If Xbox does get millions of new subscribers to Game Pass off of PlayStation and becomes super strong, what's stopping them from acquiring even more publishers and removing content from PlayStation? What if they decide that all games of the new publishers they bought will not be a part of the Game Pass tier that gets offered on PlayStation?

At the moment, it is Microsoft that wants GP on PlayStation because their growth has stalled. Sony sees this. And if Microsoft fails to grow Xbox and Game Pass (which they already have to an extent), there is a strong possibility that they just go away altogether.

Imagine a $130 billion company beating a $2,000 billion company so bad that they had to quit the industry!

That's the win Sony is after.

Hopefully. Then they can sell their IP to gaming companies

 

[Yoboman]

Crazy that PS5 is probably about 10 x the sale of Series X this year

 

[StealthGoblin]

I've come around more and more to the idea that the job Jim Ryan did with the ABK deal was a bit of a shrewd masterclass.

In essence he contributed to:

The deal being dragged out and delayed. That helped keep Xbox starved of more content.

Getting a much better deal for COD than originally proposed.

Getting Xbox's dirty laundry dragged out in public. There's been a shift in perception for Xbox. He wasn't to know all the contents, but he must have suspected it would be uncomfortable.

Keeping Xbox looking like an undesirable product all the meanwhile almost perfectly executing on SIE's plan to significantly grow their userbase.

Getting some form of shackles added to Xbox's cloud ambitions - all the meanwhile Sony are building out Chronos to PS5 and other devices.

As a result of those outcomes, it's genuinely looking like it's forcing a change of approach from Xbox and one that may be a bit of a boon to PlayStation.

He's not a great public speaker and he's put his foot in his mouth more than once, but surely people can't think he doesn't have serious business chops. He's been a success in every role.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I've come around more and more to the idea that the job Jim Ryan did with the ABK deal was a bit of a shrewd masterclass.

In essence he contributed to:

The deal being dragged out and delayed. That helped keep Xbox starved of more content.

Getting a much better deal for COD than originally proposed.

Getting Xbox's dirty laundry dragged out in public. There's been a shift in perception for Xbox. He wasn't to know all the contents, but he must have suspected it would be uncomfortable.

Keeping Xbox looking like an undesirable product all the meanwhile almost perfectly executing on SIE's plan to significantly grow their userbase.

Getting some form of shackles added to Xbox's cloud ambitions - all the meanwhile Sony are building out Chronos to PS5 and other devices.

As a result of those outcomes, it's genuinely looking like it's forcing a change of approach from Xbox and one that may be a bit of a boon to PlayStation.

He's not a great public speaker and he's put his foot in his mouth more than once, but surely people can't think he doesn't have serious business chops. He's been a success in every role.

Not being an emotional console warrior probably helped. Can't imagine PlayStation doing as well as it is if he was one.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Not being an emotional console warrior probably helped. Can't imagine PlayStation doing as well as it is if he was one.

I quite like Jim. He's quietly done a solid job over the years.

I think we'd all like a bit more communication out of PlayStation these days, but aside from that I think he's lead whatever he was in charge of very solidly.

 

[PeteBull]

Looks like Nintendo would be timing it perfectly if Super Switch is released around the holiday season in late 2024

Also looks like Xbox Series has run it's course, MS is going to have to rush out a new Xbox in 2025 if they are serious about continuing to be a platform holder

Problem about xbox series isnt its specs, they are much stronger from switch that still is selling much better, xbox problem are pitiful exclusives, aka 0 exclusives if some1 has pc, and very few, mostly bad quality ones if some1 doesnt have pc, hence barely any1 is buying it, fricken BG3 is stomping all its "exclusives" in sales.
So new console wont help here, rather they gotta embrace og xbox and early x360 days in terms of their strategy/content creation, or it will keep falling on its face like it is now, and it wont get better, it will be much worse.

 

[DJ12]

Important to note that this is the difference in the two companies. Sony was and still is a hardware company and Microsoft was and still is a software company.

It's one reason why I think that they should just ditch the Xbox. It's not their wheelhouse, it's not where their talents lie, it's not their strength. Microsoft is a software company and they should be focusing on selling software. If anything, the acquisition of Activision should be giving them more motivation to do that. I think selling consoles and attracting third party devs and all that shit is a distraction, it always has been but we can see the obvious tension here.

Ironically, it's software that they are ficking up.

 

[Tsaki]

From pixel-counting this graph, Ampere forecasts 27,17M Xbox consoles to be sold to consumers as of end of 2023 (including this December)

 

[StealthGoblin]

Is anyone able to make some launch aligned graphs that have the PS4 and Xbox one on based on the Ampere projections?

I'm just trying to get my head around a few things. Mainly - is there are point that we can identify where Xbox probably scrapped that 'leaked' roadmap and changed plans altogether?

I'm assuming that both Xbox and PlayStation will have a WiFi controller still in the works. If Xbox are going multi-device then that'll be a necessity.

I'm not a tech head but if Sony were to include one with the PS5 Pro, is that something that could be retroactively applied to the base PS5?

We know they too have a multi-device roadmap so I'm wondering when they could reasonably execute on that. Cloud Streaming is already available on PC, PS5 and very likely soon the Portal and Android. They'll need a controller that is able to apply to each output.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

3rd spot would be fine if they were at least a close 3rd but they're so far behind that the PS5 will lap them soon.

That the Switch is declining about as much as the Xbox despite being on its last legs and coming down from much higher numbers is wild. Phil Spencer and the top brass completely failed their fans. 2024 was supposed to be THE year to reestablish the brand with major AAA outings in Redfall, Starfield, and Forza but all three under delivered. Now we must look towards Fable, Hellblade, and Avowed, but given Microsoft' track record, what are the odds that these don't flop?

At this point, they should just commit instead of half-assing it. Fully become a publisher with the desire to be on every device. The console is practically dead weight now.

They can't. Microsoft has no interest in making and selling games, what they want is to sell gamepass subscription. The endgame is becoming so massive that they can sell their studios and hardware business to just profit from being the Netflix of gaming.

However, gamepass penetration outside xbox hardware is minimal. Which means dropping xbox and becoming third party is dropping gamepass.

 

[DenchDeckard]

From pixel-counting this graph, Ampere forecasts 27,17M Xbox consoles to be sold to consumers as of end of 2023 (including this December)

I still think they should be aiming for over 30 million by end of year 3 now the shortages are well and truly over.

If they don't do something crazy to sell like 13 million units next year I think it's joever.

 

[SHA]

At 1$/month, that many of those users accumulated years of, it's no surprise.

We have a 7 year old console, selling less in percentage comparison, still sells more than double units compared to Xbox.

Spencer must have a gay sex tape of "Nutella" to be able to keep his job after such a failure.

There is only one direction Xbox can go after this...

Spoiler

That $1/m subs was dead since Nov 9th, statistics show they are still active.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

At 1$/month, that many of those users accumulated years of, it's no surprise.

We have a 7 year old console, selling less in percentage comparison, still sells more than double units compared to Xbox.

Spencer must have a gay sex tape of "Nutella" to be able to keep his job after such a failure.

There is only one direction Xbox can go after this...

Spoiler

I swear, every time! Every time I see that logo animation I have to go and say it out loud:

Seeee-gaaaaaa