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[Heisenberg007]

I don't think MS will do something drastic like go 3rd party or push their next-gen timeline by 2 years, but it also seems highly unlikely they sell 13M units next year, no matter what.

These are the counted numbers from the graph:
2020: ~2.87M
2021: ~7.82M
2022: ~8.88M
2023: ~7.6M

With new unique hardware coming out by both their competitors in Switch 2 and PS5 Pro, it will be really hard to not sell less than 2023.

And these numbers are already high/inflated, by the way.

According to this data by Ampere, Xbox sold 19.57 million units by 2022. However, Ampere itself reported last year, that Xbox sold 18.5 million units by 2022.

https://ampereanalysis.com/insight/...iew-hampered-by-lack-of-hardware-availability

This new report definitely has Xbox on the higher side. Their actual numbers are lower than this, as per my estimates.

 

[ArcaneNLSC]

They could buy the remains of Bioware from EA.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

So interesting that people assume Switch 2 is a guaranteed success despite pretty consistent and historic data.

 

[Bojji]

So interesting that people assume Switch 2 is a guaranteed success despite pretty consistent and historic data.

So far Nintendo never made console with "2" in name, WiiU named "Wii 2" would be much more successful than what it was. If they get creative again instead of naming it "Switch 2" they might lose people again, Switch brand is very powerful. MS also knows how dumb console names can impact sales.

 

[jroc74]

So interesting that people assume Switch 2 is a guaranteed success despite pretty consistent and historic data.

If Nintendo gonna Nintendo and give it some weird name or gimmick... I know even Nintendo isnt crazy enough to not call it Switch 2. They have a chance to finally make the console name the easiest part of the equation.

Also funny that I read some ppl think MS needs an Xbox with the same or higher number than PS6 to help the brand...and most think Switch 2 is the smartest thing Nintendo could do.

That alone shows how much of a brand problem Xbox has.

 

[kazuyamishima]

WiiU failure wasn’t because of the name, but the big hideous tablet needed as a controller and a few other stuff.

Nintendo only has to play it safe and call it Switch 2, but history has shown that they can shoot them selves in the foot pretty easily.

 

[Horseganador]

The presentation of WiiU was almost as bad as that of Xbox one and its TVTVTV, the industrial design of the console is almost identical to that of the wii, the name had the same style, it was announced with a new Mario bros equal to that of the wii and with sports similar to wiisports, etc... it was a complete disaster and people didn't know if it was a new console or just a peripheral, with the successor to Switch they can't make the same mistake.

 

[StereoVsn]

Thank you for finally saying it. Even if you prefer Xbox, I think it is impossible to deny Microsoft's strategy as a corporation.

When it comes to consumer electronics or entertainment, MS has never succeeded. Sure, their Surface laptops might be pretty good, but the midrange Windows laptop market is a mess. Zune might have been pretty good, but the portable media players are pretty redundant these days (except Sony still makes them under the Walkman brand for high-end audio geeks), and their smart phone gamble failed.

People on this forum say that releasing Xbox games on Day 1 PC was a mistake. I think that the bigger problem is that even if the games were only for the console, none of them would be system sellers. Because Xbox has failed to provide unique, quality gaming experiences to their previous demographic, those people have moved to PC or PlayStation.

MS Surface division is actually tanking now. They haven't properly updated their hardware design in years and they have outdated hardware in a lot of models. It also takes them too long to update the specs in general. So Surface sales aren't doing well at all... which is actually what I would expect from MS hardware division. Pay close attention for a few years and then drop the ball.

Even their Enterprise Surface Hubs (giant conf rooms touch screen screens/whiteboards) are suffering from both software and hardware perspective.

 

[StereoVsn]

So interesting that people assume Switch 2 is a guaranteed success despite pretty consistent and historic data.

If Nintendo does a reasonable thing and releases a device actually named Switch 2 (or similar) with more powerful hardware that would be easier to port to from current gen, and prices it reasonably, with full BC... I can't see how it won't sell especially if Nintendo starts pushing exclusive software.

As a bonus if the new hardware helps Switch games running dynamic frames and resolution, it would be even better.

If Nintendo decides to pull some sort of "special" gimmick and base a new console around it, doesn't provide BC, etc... then yeah, all bets are off. We should see info from them in the next few months I would think so we'll know for sure then.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

If Nintendo does a reasonable thing and releases a device actually named Switch 2 (or similar) with more powerful hardware that would be easier to port to from current gen, and prices it reasonably, with full BC... I can't see how it won't sell especially if Nintendo starts pushing exclusive software.

As a bonus if the new hardware helps Switch games running dynamic frames and resolution, it would be even better.

If Nintendo decides to pull some sort of "special" gimmick and base a new console around it, doesn't provide BC, etc... then yeah, all bets are off. We should see info from them in the next few months I would think so we'll know for sure then.

The Super Nintendo, Gameboy Advance, and 3DS all sold less than their predecessors. As did the Nintendo 64.

 

[StereoVsn]

The Super Nintendo, Gameboy Advance, and 3DS all sold less than their predecessors. As did the Nintendo 64.

GBA was on the market only for a short while though before being replaced and it still did pretty well all things considered. SNES is an interesting case, but that was a while back with no built-in digital software libraries for folks and no BC either.

Nintendo 64 dropped the ball for many reasons. If Switch changes formats, prices its games 50% more vs competition and loses support of 3rd parties, yeah, it will tank. I can see Switch 2 selling less vs Switch 1, but it shouldn't drop the ball significantly unless Nintendo does something dumb again. Of course that's just IMO.

 

[Panajev2001a]

MS Surface division is actually tanking now. They haven't properly updated their hardware design in years and they have outdated hardware in a lot of models. It also takes them too long to update the specs in general. So Surface sales aren't doing well at all... which is actually what I would expect from MS hardware division. Pay close attention for a few years and then drop the ball.

Even their Enterprise Surface Hubs (giant conf rooms touch screen screens/whiteboards) are suffering from both software and hardware perspective.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/18/23878609/microsoft-windows-panos-panay-leaving all the sign people need to for the status of the Surface division…

 

[Woopah]

There’s no way in hell Switch is doing 16.8m last year.

It will do just a little bit more than 15m.

It was at 9.9 million shipped by 30 September, a 6.9 million holiday quarter isn't unreasonable I don't think (Switch did 8.23 million in the 2022 holiday quarter).

The Super Nintendo, Gameboy Advance, and 3DS all sold less than their predecessors. As did the Nintendo 64.

GBA was one Nintendo’s most successful transitions, and probably would have outsold the Gameboy if given enough time.

Nintendo should be aiming for their next platform to be a sort of "Switch Advance".

 

[Mibu no ookami]

GBA was on the market only for a short while though before being replaced and it still did pretty well all things considered. SNES is an interesting case, but that was a while back with no built-in digital software libraries for folks and no BC either.

Nintendo 64 dropped the ball for many reasons. If Switch changes formats, prices its games 50% more vs competition and loses support of 3rd parties, yeah, it will tank. I can see Switch 2 selling less vs Switch 1, but it shouldn't drop the ball significantly unless Nintendo does something dumb again. Of course that's just IMO.

I'm hearing a lot of pretty weak excuses here. The DS released early because the GBA wasn't really selling all that well. You skipped the 3DS entirely. You also skipped the gamecube.

Digital software libraries? That's still relatively new in gaming and even BC has been pretty rare for the most part.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It was at 9.9 million shipped by 30 September, a 6.9 million holiday quarter isn't unreasonable I don't think (Switch did 8.23 million in the 2022 holiday quarter).

GBA was one Nintendo’s most successful transitions, and probably would have outsold the Gameboy if given enough time.

Nintendo should be aiming for their next platform to be a sort of "Switch Advance".

It wasn't really.

The DS released because the PSP was set to release in 2004 as well and it would have eaten the GBA's lunch, despite only 3 years separating them.

The GBA was a cheap cash grab.

The DS launched for 150 while the PSP lanched for 250.

The GBA launched for 100 dollars which dropped to 80 a year after launch. They launched the SP in 2023 for 100 and dropped its price to 80 soon after as well.

Dirt cheap and it still didn't sell in the numbers Nintendo wanted.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Do we have any info on what percentage of xbox/Playstation owners also own a switch?

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Do we have any info on what percentage of xbox/Playstation owners also own a switch?

Sony once said that 30% of their PS5 are new customers, meaning that either the PS5 is their first console, or they got one after having something else than a PS4. Microsoft responded a few days later with a 50% number for the Series S being new as well. Outside of that I don't remember solid info about your question.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Sony once said that 30% of their PS5 are new customers, meaning that either the PS5 is their first console, or they got one after having something else than a PS4. Microsoft responded a few days later with a 50% number for the Series S being new as well. Outside of that I don't remember solid info about your question.

It would be interesting to get those numbers, since the switch seems to be a complement to another form of gaming (pc/consoles) for a considerable amount of gamers.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I think one of the big issues with the Microsoft strategy this gen has been the disparity between paying out huge sums of money on big companies that are fundamentally valued for revenue streams that are reliant on rivals.

Like, ABK and to a lesser extent, Bethesda are both behemoth publishers whose AAA games have largely flourished on Steam and Playstation, and the prices that Microsoft paid for them were mainly accounting for those revenues. Taking future games from both and making them console exclusive without any growth in consoles makes for some disastrous math.

Starfield is a prime example of that, it's a game that started out life with a budget that clearly took Playstation revenue in mind, was taken exclusive , and now for various reasons failed to grow the Xbox console market share, and the decision to make it exclusive has robbed it of playstation revenue.

That's the main problem with MS:
They are completely out of touch with the gaming industry.

Let's be honest, anyone who keeps up with developments within the gaming industry could've predicted this to be a major issue with MS' strategy.
Removing games from Playstation is going to lead to a big drop in revenue, while the installbase on Playstation will easily find alternatives to the lost games.

Not even COD will make a difference and it might actually make people dislike MS even more, resulting in a continued drop in popularity for Xbox.

 

[Crayon]

It's true that if activision for $70b is supposed to be an asset to ms, they are damaging the value of that asset cutting out ps. Especially as game pass growth is prematurely leveling off. There's a big upside to having to do cod on ps for 10 years. Maybe they're better off for it.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

It would be interesting to get those numbers, since the switch seems to be a complement to another form of gaming (pc/consoles) for a considerable amount of gamers.

Over 50 percent PS5 users also own Nintendo Switch: Sony

Sony believes that nearly half of PlayStation 5 (PS5) users in the US also own a Nintendo Switch console. Sony does not see the Nintendo Switch as a competitor, reports The Verge. The reason beh

www.techlusive.in

It seems that Sony gave us something after all. A leak from the FTC trial.

 

[StereoVsn]

I'm hearing a lot of pretty weak excuses here. The DS released early because the GBA wasn't really selling all that well. You skipped the 3DS entirely. You also skipped the gamecube.

Digital software libraries? That's still relatively new in gaming and even BC has been pretty rare for the most part.

Digital libraries aren’t new as they have been introduced with Wii, OS3 and 360. Now all three platform holders had terrible migrations, but with PS4, Xbox One at least there are continuity expectations which proved out going to PS5 and X series. MS even has some continuity for digital libraries from 360 days including BC OG Xbox titles.

Switch is off one out but heavier digital push it’s much more important vs before.

3DS I didn’t include since I wasn’t going to list everything, but all in all while weaker than DS, overall sales were alright. Wii U really screwed Nintendo back then.

Again, would Switch 2 sell same as 1? Maybe, maybe not. But will they flop N64/WiiU/etc style? Nah, don’t see that happening unless they fumble once again.

 

[mejin]

Series is doing better than I expected. The promos moved some units.

Seems 25M is possible after all. Now I understand the impressive PS5 lineup for Q1.

 

[SHA]

Xbox: flop
Xbox 360: OK
Xbox One: flop
XBS: flop

I had more fun with og, one and series than 360, sales topic aside, the og was revolutionary, it's users got tired of conventional jrpg dominant console "yeah, the sales topic wasn't their top priority" and wanted a shooter focused console, they didn't asked for a specific console but their intention was damn clear to stay away from Eastern dominant games that appealed for westerners and the rest of the world intentionally, it's easterns weak spot, they made their games and marketed for other regions, not their own people; one and series games are beatable, it's easier for gamers to make their list of games without getting lost in a huge numbers of them like the 360, the 360 real strength is that it lived longer than the rest and people still play it's games to this day.

 

[PeteBull]

The presentation of WiiU was almost as bad as that of Xbox one and its TVTVTV, the industrial design of the console is almost identical to that of the wii, the name had the same style, it was announced with a new Mario bros equal to that of the wii and with sports similar to wiisports, etc... it was a complete disaster and people didn't know if it was a new console or just a peripheral, with the successor to Switch they can't make the same mistake.

ninny learning from its mistakes, no worries, it wont be 2nd microsoft, their new games/exclusives are proof of that, my dream for ninny would be to make additional premium sationary console only with beefier specs that can play same games as switch/switch2 just with better res/fps but its likely a pipedream, we will just get next switch and thats it =/

 

[Woopah]

It wasn't really.

The DS released because the PSP was set to release in 2004 as well and it would have eaten the GBA's lunch, despite only 3 years separating them.

The GBA was a cheap cash grab.

The DS launched for 150 while the PSP lanched for 250.

The GBA launched for 100 dollars which dropped to 80 a year after launch. They launched the SP in 2023 for 100 and dropped its price to 80 soon after as well.

Dirt cheap and it still didn't sell in the numbers Nintendo wanted.

The GBA did great numbers before being replaced (though it was still smart of them to replace it to combat the PSP).

In its first 4 full years it was selling faster than any previous Nintendo platform. It absolutely sold the numbers Nintendo would have wanted, and wouldn't have been replaced if it wasn't for the PSP.

Nintendo smoothly transitioned from GameBoy to GBA and achieved significantly better hardware sales. If they could do a similar thing with Switch 2 and achieve better hardware sales, they would be delighted.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Series is doing better than I expected. The promos moved some units.

Seems 25M is possible after all. Now I understand the impressive PS5 lineup for Q1.

Really?

Sony sold more PS5s in november in UK alone than Series sold in the entirety of Europe from january to november.

 

[balls of snow]

Ms should take the pride hit and pay that 30% to sony to publish games on playstation. I wouldnt want to see Tango, Arkane, Ninja Theory, Obsidian going under because the suits cant sell a console to save their lives.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Really?

Sony sold more PS5s in november in UK alone than Series sold in the entirety of Europe from january to november.

Bit strange to compare a UK number to a European one but yes, Sony has killed it this year and is huge in Europe while xbox is none existent in that region.

 

[Baki]

The Super Nintendo, Gameboy Advance, and 3DS all sold less than their predecessors. As did the Nintendo 64.

It might sell less than the Switch, especially because there will be no pandemic boost, but selling less than the switch can still be considered a huge success. The current switch has great end of life sales and the successor is expected to receive even better 3p support, at least early in its life. As long as they don’t try to reinvent the wheel, the next Switch should have a solid shot at 100M LTD.

 

[PeteBull]

Ms should take the pride hit and pay that 30% to sony to publish games on playstation. I wouldnt want to see Tango, Arkane, Ninja Theory, Obsidian going under because the suits cant sell a console to save their lives.

It cant be helped, they conditioned their own consumers/players its not worth it to pay for games, and many games come to their subscription, it promotes lowering of quality unfortunately, even visible in last forza that till now was really amazing(yup for specyfic ppl like myself who like racing genre but still...).
Now u look at starfield and u know its 10x worse from our below skyrym/fallout series, and u wonder if their next game, aka elder scrolls 6(not earlier than on next xbox) will be at least better from starfield or quality will continue to drop on downwards spiral =/
Lets see how hellblade2 and new fable gonna turn out, hoping 85%+ but u never know with microsoft those days anymore ;/

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Nevermind

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Bit strange to compare a UK number to a European one but yes, Sony has killed it this year and is huge in Europe while xbox is none existent in that region.

Europe included UK.

Edit:

Have to correct myself though, it was just for november as well in Series' case.

For november, PS5 sold more in UK alone than Series did in the entirety of Europe (incl UK).

Btw, UK is still part of Europe, just not part of EU.

 

[yazenov]

I had more fun with og, one and series than 360, sales topic aside, the og was revolutionary, it's users got tired of conventional jrpg dominant console "yeah, the sales topic wasn't their top priority" and wanted a shooter focused console, they didn't asked for a specific console but their intention was damn clear to stay away from Eastern dominant games that appealed for westerners and the rest of the world intentionally, it's easterns weak spot, they made their games and marketed for other regions, not their own people; one and series games are beatable, it's easier for gamers to make their list of games without getting lost in a huge numbers of them like the 360, the 360 real strength is that it lived longer than the rest and people still play it's games to this day.

Yeah, one of the positive influences of MS entering the console gaming market was courting some Western publishers whose games were on the PC exclusively and bringing their games to consoles. I think those developers/publishers would eventually come to the console market but MS sped up the process.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Yeah, one of the positive influences of MS entering the console gaming market was courting some Western publishers whose games were on the PC exclusively and bringing their games to consoles. I think those developers/publishers would eventually come to the console market but MS sped up the process.

It did lead to the decline of Bethesda. Once they no longer make PC games as a priority TES /Fallout games just degrade itself every generation until it died.

 

[mckmas8808]

Europe included UK.

Edit:

Have to correct myself though, it was just for november as well in Series' case.

For november, PS5 sold more in UK alone than Series did in the entirety of Europe (incl UK).

Btw, UK is still part of Europe, just not part of EU.

I don't think most people understand how bad this is. And why it's really bad.

 

[Unknown?]

Dang! It's not just that PS5 is doing well, Xbox is just tanking. This should be its best year but it's not doing much better than many past dying consoles

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Dang! It's not just that PS5 is doing well, Xbox is just tanking. This should be its best year but it's not doing much better than many past dying consoles

It's now doing significantly worse than Xbox One when launch aligned. That's scary stuff considering all they've done to change their perception since 2018 and yet it's all for naught. Time to panic sell some IP for cash!

 

[Forth]

Microsoft brought this on themselves, I sold my Series X for a PS5 and after experiencing PS5 for the past month, I wish I did it sooner.
Starfield and Forza were the last straw for me, Bethesda is a shadow of it's former self and the Forza team should be all fired for producing what they did after six years.

 

[phant0m]

Microsoft brought this on themselves, I sold my Series X for a PS5 and after experiencing PS5 for the past month, I wish I did it sooner.
Starfield and Forza were the last straw for me, Bethesda is a shadow of it's former self and the Forza team should be all fired for producing what they did after six years.

Microsoft’s only great studio is Playground Games. The rest (343, turn10, coalition, bethsoft, undead labs) having been making the same shit for a decade.


(verdict still out on Ninja Theory)

 

[Woopah]

Europe included UK.

Edit:

Have to correct myself though, it was just for november as well in Series' case.

For november, PS5 sold more in UK alone than Series did in the entirety of Europe (incl UK).

Btw, UK is still part of Europe, just not part of EU.

The European hardware numbers that get reported through Gamesindustry.biz do not include Germany or the UK.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

The European hardware numbers that get reported through Gamesindustry.biz do not include Germany or the UK.

We got numbers. Excluding Germany, but that won't matter much for Xbox:

Many thanks to Christopher Dring, GamesIndustry.biz and Install-Base

Data does not include all markets and is missing Germany.


November

YTD

Christopher Dring




GamesIndustry.biz: UK Monthly Charts



Christopher Dring (Speaking to IGN)




Germany: First Half of 2023