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Here is Why Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a True Next-gen Game

Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Lysandros said:
Is that 'guaranteed', what prevents some hard working and talented third party studios from implementing some PS5 specific optimizations regarding the textures? :) Even if this feature isn't used at all XSX and PS5 having the same amount VRAM i can't see how Microsoft's console woul have better textures based on hardware.
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It's their choice, if they wanna compete with PS5's top tier quality or be just another generic, lazy studios. Most 3rd party studios what their games to look the best, and with a leading console PS5 and easy to develop for they're nothing stopping them from pushing for better results.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
S0ULZB0URNE said:
Sony needs to run PS5 Kioks with this game running.
Should easily convince parents on the fence to walk out with a PS5.
Click to expand...

We already have Astro for free, and it's a couple of hours worth of gameplay, and probably some replayability. Most parents here buy PS4 because kids can play Fortnite online for free, unlike xbox, and there are many free to play games that they can download and play with their friends.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
We already have Astro for free, and it's a couple of hours worth of gameplay, and probably some replayability. Most parents here buy PS4 because kids can play Fortnite online for free, unlike xbox, and there are many free to play games that they can download and play with their friends.
Click to expand...
Astro won't sell units to a parent who is leery about spending $500 like a R & C demo is what I am saying.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
S0ULZB0URNE said:
Astro won't sell units to a parent who is leery about spending $500 like a R & C demo is what I am saying.
Click to expand...

It's an extra, it's free. So knowing that it's coming inside for free, fortnite free with no need for PS Plus, that's pretty major. And Ratchet & Clank is just a killer deal.
 
THE DUCK

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
Not trying to derail this thread, there just has not been a fair balance on this forum lately.
I'm buying a ps5 and an xbox series x. Both will have amazing true next gen games such as ratchet and clank. Just tired of the bs saying that multiplatform games cannot be next gen. This one could easily already be planned for a pc port, now, or even if its a year from now. That won't mean this game isn't next gen.
 
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VFXVeteran

VFXVeteran

Banned
dvdvideo said:
Not trying to derail this thread, there just has not been a fair balance on this forum lately.
I'm buying a ps5 and an xbox series x. Both will have amazing true next gen games such as ratchet and clank. Just tired of the bs saying that multiplatform games cannot be next gen. This one could easily already be planned for a pc port, now, or even if its a year from now. That won't mean this game isn't next gen.
Click to expand...

Agree. I never understood the mentality that only an exclusive can push visuals instead of multiplatform games. There are so many that push really good visuals.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
dvdvideo said:
Not trying to derail this thread, there just has not been a fair balance on this forum lately.
I'm buying a ps5 and an xbox series x. Both will have amazing true next gen games such as ratchet and clank. Just tired of the bs saying that multiplatform games cannot be next gen. This one could easily already be planned for a pc port, now, or even if its a year from now. That won't mean this game isn't next gen.
Click to expand...
VFXVeteran said:
Agree. I never understood the mentality that only an exclusive can push visuals instead of multiplatform games. There are so many that push really good visuals.
Click to expand...

You can easily compensate for the lack of fast SSD and I/O by requiring 32-128GB of RAM and probably 16-24GB VRAM on PC. Do you guys think that's something the developers would do for PC? They won't. FS2020 is the first true app that's pushing the boundaries real hard, and would love to see more doing the same. But not all games are streaming-based. Star Citizen is also a decent attempt, but it's a scam overall and a flop.

So yeah, they can push the boundaries, but by excluding the potato PC's that make up like more than 98% of the PC gaming community. Good luck with the sales.
 
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Lethal01

Lethal01

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
Compare it to the PS4 version, and you'll easily see it. Ratchet is already raytraced, along with other enemies and objects, raytraced shadow is part of it.

iQIxPyAkvtlEzQOm.jpg


Current gen has raytraced shadows but very low quality and pixelized. UE5 showed 16K shadows for instance.
Click to expand...

No, the shadows being better does not mean they are raytraced. You can't just go "it looks better so they are using raytracing"
The techniques we use to create shadows in games are not raytracing.

You have nothing to support the claim that the games is using raytraced shadows other than "they look nice". All you need to do is say something like "high quality soft shadows" since we don't know exactly how they are creating their shadows.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Lethal01 said:
No, the shadows being better does not mean they are raytraced. You can't just go "it looks better so they are using raytracing"
The techniques we use to create shadows in games are not raytracing.

You have nothing to support the claim that the games is using raytraced shadows other than "they look nice". All you need to do is say something like "high quality soft shadows" since we don't know exactly how they are creating their shadows.
Click to expand...

Until proven otherwise, I can't agree with you but respect your point of view.
 
Vawn

Vawn

Banned
Unknown? said:
It's crazy... If you had told me in 2002 that, in the future, Ratchet and Clank would be generating more buzz than a Halo game I wouldn't have believed it.

It's crazy how far this series has come!
Click to expand...

Which series and in which direction?
 
VFXVeteran

VFXVeteran

Banned
Lethal01 said:
No, the shadows being better does not mean they are raytraced. You can't just go "it looks better so they are using raytracing"
The techniques we use to create shadows in games are not raytracing.

You have nothing to support the claim that the games is using raytraced shadows other than "they look nice". All you need to do is say something like "high quality soft shadows" since we don't know exactly how they are creating their shadows.
Click to expand...

This is something that frustrates people on these boards. They automatically make the games to do more than is there. This happened a LOT with last gen exclusives. If it's RT shadows, they would say so. Just like Tomb Raider team did.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
VFXVeteran said:
This is something that frustrates people on these boards. They automatically make the games to do more than is there. This happened a LOT with last gen exclusives. If it's RT shadows, they would say so. Just like Tomb Raider team did.
Click to expand...

Why would they specify each single element of RT? They simply said RT, so if there is no proof of no RT shadows then it's stalemate.
 
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Eliciel

Eliciel

Member
I would have never expected that by September we wouldn't have the true technical teardown and another handful of reveals and gameplay demos + 1-2 additional megatons. It's a really crazy year...
 
VFXVeteran

VFXVeteran

Banned
Bo_Hazem said:
Why would they specify each single element of RT? They simply said RT, so if there is no proof of no RT shadows then it's stalemate.
Click to expand...
Because each element has a cost. And each element is independent of the other. Look at the marketing for the PC games using RT. BF5 talked about reflections, Metro talked about GI/AO and later all of the RT functions. Control talked about all of them too (GI, shadows, and reflections). Tomb Raider talked about shadows. None of the PC games mentioned RT in general.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
VFXVeteran said:
Because each element has a cost. And each element is independent of the other. Look at the marketing for the PC games using RT. BF5 talked about reflections, Metro talked about GI/AO and later all of the RT functions. Control talked about all of them too (GI, shadows, and reflections). Tomb Raider talked about shadows. None of the PC games mentioned RT in general.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you listened to this, but this company has made a deal with one console company, you only need to see Spiderman, a property of Sony and Marvel, to guess which one is it. They're fucking bringing real-time raytracing to smartphones! New methods of RT is coming, the old was are pretty taxing as we know them, and you can always use a mixture of both as well:

 
Lethal01

Lethal01

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
Why would they specify each single element of RT? They simply said RT, so if there is no proof of no RT shadows then it's stalemate.
Click to expand...

If it's a stalemate that would be you agree that you don't know if it has ray traced shadows. It's like if I made the claim that Kena is using raytraced shadows and reflections, we don't really have any statement that it doesn't but that doesn't turn into a reason to claim that it does.

I'm fine with agreeing to not say definitively whether it does or doesn't but your Opening post is basically saying the stalemate is broken and that you have definitive proof the game uses raytraced shadows.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Lethal01 said:
If it's a stalemate then you shouldn't be announcing that it does. It's like if I made the claim that Kena is using raytraced shadows and reflections, we don't really have any statement that it doesn't but that doesn't turn into a reason to claim that it does.

I'm fine with agreeing to not say definitively whether it does or doesn't but your Opening post is basically saying the stalemate is broken and that you have definitive proof the game uses raytraced shadows.
Click to expand...

As usual there is a tonne of wacky new weapons plus some returning favourites. Oh, and Clank now has ray-traced shadows!

www.thesixthaxis.com

Ratchet and Clank return in Rift Apart for PlayStation 5! | TheSixthAxis

Sony have just revealed a stunning new Ratchet and Clank game, Rift Apart, developed by Insomniac games. For many years the Ratchet games have been touted
www.thesixthaxis.com

How expensive? We learned that quickly enough on PC two years ago with RTX-supported titles: a single full-resolution ray tracing effect like reflections at 4K on the most powerful GPU available can drop frame-rates by significant double digit percentages. Other effects like ray traced shadows can be less intensive, but still significant. The point is that console hardware design is based around bang for the buck, meaning that developers will need to be careful in how RT is used to keep resolutions and frame-rates reasonable. In the first wave of PlayStation 5 titles we saw, we got a few indications of how the developers are adapting to this new rendering paradigm.

www.eurogamer.net

PlayStation 5: what to expect from next-gen console ray tracing

With nigh-on 30 titles revealed at last week's PlayStation 5 software showcase, there's certainly plenty of material fo…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

With UE5 demo on PS5 showing 16K shadows, nothing really crazy about the shadows in R&C.

"Really, the core method here, and the reason there is such a jump in shadow fidelity, is virtual shadow maps. This is basically virtual textures but for shadow maps. Nanite enables a number of things we simply couldn't do before, such as rendering into virtualised shadow maps very efficiently. We pick the resolution of the virtual shadow map for each pixel such that the texels are pixel-sized, so roughly one texel per pixel, and thus razor sharp shadows. This effectively gives us 16K shadow maps for every light in the demo where previously we'd use maybe 2K at most. High resolution is great, but we want physically plausible soft shadows, so we extended some of our previous work on denoising ray-traced shadows to filter shadow map shadows and give us those nice penumbras."

www.eurogamer.net

Inside Unreal Engine 5: how Epic delivers its generational leap

Epic's reveal of Unreal Engine 5 running in real-time on PlayStation 5 delivered one of the seismic news events of the …
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

R&C already showed infinite draw distance that show razor sharp distant objects with no aliasing, that's much more impressive than any game to date.
 
Lethal01

Lethal01

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
As usual there is a tonne of wacky new weapons plus some returning favourites. Oh, and Clank now has ray-traced shadows!

www.thesixthaxis.com

Ratchet and Clank return in Rift Apart for PlayStation 5! | TheSixthAxis

Sony have just revealed a stunning new Ratchet and Clank game, Rift Apart, developed by Insomniac games. For many years the Ratchet games have been touted
www.thesixthaxis.com

How expensive? We learned that quickly enough on PC two years ago with RTX-supported titles: a single full-resolution ray tracing effect like reflections at 4K on the most powerful GPU available can drop frame-rates by significant double digit percentages. Other effects like ray traced shadows can be less intensive, but still significant. The point is that console hardware design is based around bang for the buck, meaning that developers will need to be careful in how RT is used to keep resolutions and frame-rates reasonable. In the first wave of PlayStation 5 titles we saw, we got a few indications of how the developers are adapting to this new rendering paradigm.

www.eurogamer.net

PlayStation 5: what to expect from next-gen console ray tracing

With nigh-on 30 titles revealed at last week's PlayStation 5 software showcase, there's certainly plenty of material fo…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

With UE5 demo on PS5 showing 16K shadows, nothing really crazy about the shadows in R&C.

"Really, the core method here, and the reason there is such a jump in shadow fidelity, is virtual shadow maps. This is basically virtual textures but for shadow maps. Nanite enables a number of things we simply couldn't do before, such as rendering into virtualised shadow maps very efficiently. We pick the resolution of the virtual shadow map for each pixel such that the texels are pixel-sized, so roughly one texel per pixel, and thus razor sharp shadows. This effectively gives us 16K shadow maps for every light in the demo where previously we'd use maybe 2K at most. High resolution is great, but we want physically plausible soft shadows, so we extended some of our previous work on denoising ray-traced shadows to filter shadow map shadows and give us those nice penumbras."

www.eurogamer.net

Inside Unreal Engine 5: how Epic delivers its generational leap

Epic's reveal of Unreal Engine 5 running in real-time on PlayStation 5 delivered one of the seismic news events of the …
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

R&C already showed infinite draw distance that show razor sharp distant objects with no aliasing, that's much more impressive than any game to date.
Click to expand...

"High resolution is great, but we want physically plausible soft shadows, so we extended some of our previous work on denoising ray-traced shadows to filter shadow map shadows and give us those nice penumbras." '

This is literally them saying that they aren't using ray traced shadows.

And the first link you posted is speculation on the side of the writer who also seems to just be throwing the word raytracing around without actually doing research.

So like you said, it's a stalemate. which mean we can't claim that the game is using raytraced shadows as there is no evidence to back this up.

Just to be clear I got very excited when you posted links and would love for this game to have raytraced shadows. But you shouldn't claim it does when you can't back it up.

On a seperate not what do you mean by "infinite draw distance"? there's tons of games with extremely high draw distance with little aliasing.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Lethal01 said:
"High resolution is great, but we want physically plausible soft shadows, so we extended some of our previous work on denoising ray-traced shadows to filter shadow map shadows and give us those nice penumbras." '

This is literally them saying that they aren't using ray traced shadows.

And the first link you posted is speculation on the side of the writer who also seems to just be throwing the word raytracing around without actually doing research.

So like you said, it's a stalemate. which mean we can't claim that the game is using raytraced shadows as there is no evidence to back this up.


On a seperate not what do you mean by "infinite draw distance"? there's tons of games with extremely high draw distance with little aliasing.
Click to expand...

So I'll throw a * disclaimer then for now anyway.

Edited the OP.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Cerberus_X said:
Lol wait till Spider-Man MM and other first party games hit, these people will need to be on suicide watch 😅
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Just take a look here:

Snowdonhoffen said:
That's what I was thinking, SM:MM is releasing before R&C but we haven't seen a single gameplay. But with that said, if SM looks as good as it does in the trailers well, they could be saving the gameplay reveal for some flexing at their next event.
I mean, look at this, you can see the small little hairs in his forehead, I took these screenshots directly from the trailer:

44vk4pa.png


Also look at his hair! it looks so good

SqkVXK2.png


Full Screenshots:
BM1otII.jpg

5PLYbnG.jpg
Click to expand...
 
R

roops67

Member
MasterCornholio said:


I remember seeing it in a tech demo. However Ratchet if the first game they I've heard using it.
Click to expand...

Oh yes that was a great demo. Thanks

This now also comes to mind 'The Dark Sorcerer' demo for the PS4, funny as fuck!

The candles use it. Also sure they must be using the subsurface scattering to get realistic skin. But yes I was looking for where they use this effect in realtime 'gameplay' like in R&C, for a real comparison

Side track. The script was hilarious, but it's a crying shame they never used the characters in that demo for something more substantial, like a feature length movie/game! Especially Maurice the goblin :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Sorcerer actor: Aren't you uncomfortable under that mask?
Goblin actor: Mask? what mask?
 
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betrayal

betrayal

Banned
The game looks REALLY good. Thanks for the effort and the thread. But I'll leave the marketing mantra "powered by SSD" out of this one. :lollipop_baby_angel:
 
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VFXVeteran

VFXVeteran

Banned
roops67 said:
That I did not know! Always thought subsurface scattering would be relatively GPU intensive/expensive. Thanks, I'll look out for it
Click to expand...

It depends on which technique you use. Most games don't implement it the expensive way as it's too computensive. Especially in gameplay. I see the Cyberpunk will be one of the first to have a more accurate SSS and have it occupy a lot of screen pixels during gameplay (i.e. 1st PS). Most of the other games using a weak inaccurate model that's simple to process.
 
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yewles1

yewles1

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
Assuming, nothing hard there actually. UE5 used 8K ZBrush models, uncompressed and ran smoothly with 500 of those in the same area.
Click to expand...
People thought you meant the 2016 movie models, which wouldn't make sense as the Rift Apart models actually look better.
 
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