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[Belthazar]

Because the assets still have to be modeled, shaded, textured, etc. So they'll be made in a way that is able to run on the biggest range of devices possible. So at most you'll see a downgrade in asset quality when you drop the settings on a PC game, but hardly any improvement in comparison with PS5 assets when playing on ultra.

And that's why it doesn't look dramatically improved. You'll see better lighting, better shadows, better draw distance, better resolutions and better framerates... But that's doesn't wow anyone as much as character models like Kratos, Aloy, Ratchet, etc. or even very good environment assets... And that is pretty very similar across the board.

 

[StereoVsn]

Using an OLED monitor or TV!

Better yet one of those new 32” 240hz OLED monitors, enable path tracing, ramp up all the graphics setting and watch your 4090 barely do 60-70 fps if that .

 

[Shifty1897]

So yeah, you have to develop for super powerful PCs if you want to see what they can actually do, and most games don't. There are games that do, though.

Look at screenshot comparisons on a big screen of Cyberpunk in RT Overdrive mode vs the PS5 version. It's incredible.

 

[yurinka]

I know a 4090 has like 80-90 teraflops of processing power vs the PS5's 8-10 teraflops. A 4090 cost about 3x what a ps5 does alone so it should be much more powerful. With that said, Why do we not see the difference? Yes I know a 4090 can run similiar looking games at increased framerates but why do we not see eye melting graphics.

Throwing all the numbers out of the WIndows, I am going to use the tools I was born with the eye test. I look at Playstation games like Ratchet and Clank remake, Horizon Forbidden West, Dark Souls remake, even the Resident Evil 4 remake and others that visually can go toe to toe with what the pc has to offer. Why? The pc is clearly superior and it's price point reflects that but why do I not see the Vastly improved visuals? I get it that on pc one has to develop for the lowest common denominator but there are always some studios who are going to push the envelope.

If you go the Steam hardware survey, you'll see most players don't have a 4090, but instead something more relatively similar to a PS5 or lower. If you go to the industry data, you'll see around 80% of the gaming revenue is made by like a couple dozen companies. If you go to see the fiscal reports of these companies and ignore the mobile gaming data you'll see most of them make more money from console than from PC, and particularly sell more in PS. So they make their games designed for that hardware (aprox. from Series S/Steamdeck/PS4 to specially PS5 and PC equivalents).

To make games with great visuals is super expensive and take a lot of years, so they optimize for the majority of people who buys their games: mostly console gamers and PC gamers with low/mid end PCs. And also because when they started to make that AAA game like 5 or 8 years ago they only had previous gen hardware, so couldn't design their game and pipeline around the high-end tech we have today.

The amount of people with high end PCs who buy games is a very small portion of their market, not enough to justify to spend maybe a hundred million dollars to make special stuff for them, which would require to change a ton of very important stuff both in the engine and in their pipeline and workflow (stuff like lighting, shadows, memory management, texture types, raytracing, etc). Maximum they normally do is a set of slightly improved textures, and allow you to get higher framerate, resolution, or use some small new thing like some extra supersampling methods.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Sounds like the OP just never spent enough on components.

You can create the experience you want on PC. You choose the resolution and framerate target.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

Simple, because all the development money is based on the console market, thus your 4090 will be always held back by "inferior" hardware.

 

[MetalRain]

I think it's not due to diminishing returns, they surely could look much better. Think something like most recent UE5 technology demos that barely run on consoles.

But there is no point and no money for chasing the ultimate graphics. You have to design the game for all platforms and even within PC market high end isn't that common.

 

[Leonidas]

To me, AAA titles like TLOU, GOW and Horizon might not always push graphics/performance as much as PC (mainly due hardware limitations), but they are far more polished.

Hence why I never really cared much for PC gaming.

I love how all the games you mentioned are also available on PC, at higher frame rates, higher resolution & better upscaling

 

[ClosBSAS]

two words...
parity clause.

 

[ClosBSAS]

Forbidden west and tlou 2 are still more mind-blowing than anything on pc,except a raytraced cyberpunk. Pc doesn't have budget behind it to take advantage of its hardware. You are mostly playing for higher performance.

lol star citizen blows anything away that consoles have...ps5 is not even that good anymore. star citizen is the true pc power, modern day crysis...i know cause ispent 15k on it and i love playing it.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

I get the PC master race that wants the best of the best but it really isn't worth it anymore.

 

[Laptop1991]

It's because the publisher's and dev,'s don't want them too, they can't even be bothered to make decent PC ports a lot of the time now, consoles are limited and walled PC,s now, if they used to whole power of a PC, especially with the latest PC tech, the difference would be too large and wouldn't make the console ports, as they would be seen, look unappealing and gamers wouldn't want to play them or pay money for them.

 

[Kokoloko85]

You’re insulting the most sensitive fanbase over something they hold pride over. Good luck, this will go on till you die lol

 

[Fredrik]

The best looking console games are 30fps and/or run at dynamic res down to 1080p.

If PC games targetted 30fps and 1080p res on 4090 specs they would look lightyears ahead of console games.
But nobody wants 1080p30 and they wouid sell like ass since there is like a one digit percentage of PC gamers with those specs.

As it is you can see PC games as constant remasters. Higher resolution, higher framerates, some new graphics effects. Plus mods. I’m okay with that.

 

[Danjin44]

How long GAF is going to be obsess with graphics? There is more to games than graphics? With coast of game development going up, it just not worth it.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I love how all the games you mentioned are also available on PC, at higher frame rates, higher resolution & better upscaling

I love how you always completely miss the point and ignore the fact that the PC-ports always come with issues.

 

[zeroluck]

4K path traced cyberpunk will melt your eye balls, even through it runs at sub 30 fps on a 4090. Alternatively if you don’t want eye candy you can aim for 240 fps with frame gen, once you experience that much fps on an OLED you will never want to game on a console ever again.

 

[Leonidas]

I love how you always completely miss the point and ignore the fact that the PC-ports always come with issues.

Also false.

God of War on PC is a simply sensational port

Another huge PlayStation exclusive has found its way over to PC - and the results are spectacular. Sony Santa Monica ha…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[rofif]

To the untrained eye (which is like 90% of people playing games), the difference from a purely visual perspective is not that large anymore. Taking framerate out of it, I think the OP is pointing out that we don't see obvious visual differences in games on today's consoles and top spec PCs. In other words:

Yeah pretty obvious right? My mom can see the difference. Versus:

Mom would have to stare quite a bit longer to spot any differences on the bottom 3 . Sure, the reflection in the puddle in the Cybperpunk shot and some slight shading differences (and resolution clarity) throughout. But I'd be hard pressed to call that a massive difference to the average person that don't know about graphics and what they are looking at.

The culprit primarily is diminishing returns on the hardware where the TRUE limiting factor is the software (and people writing it). As has been said here, games are not targeting a 4090 level of hardware and it's simply relegated to being an accelerant for game engines designed for much lower specs. Now what you do get is much high framerates and in some select cases, some additional graphics features (i.e Path tracing, AI upscaling etc). But the fundamental game assets and content are pretty much identical these days.

Bravo. Perfect post.
That’s what I mean when I say the games look the same on all platforms nowadays.
Even cyberpunk where the difference is biggest doesn’t look that worse. It just Looks different like if the weather in open world was different I compared a ton myself and there are scenes I prefer non pt look.

The worst one is Alan wake 2 imo. They just slapped everything on low, disabled rt and didn’t implement any substitute on ps5. Still probably fine for most people. IMO dualsense and 3d audio make bigger impact

 

[rofif]

Great comparison with low resolution, super compressed jpegs, even better than using Youtube!

lol that is his point. If you can’t see the difference in lower games he posted because of compression? lol exactly because difference is limited

 

[Kokoloko85]

I love how all the games you mentioned are also available on PC, at higher frame rates, higher resolution & better upscaling

TLOU2, God of War Ragnarok and Horizon 2 are on PC already?…

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Also false.

God of War on PC is a simply sensational port

Another huge PlayStation exclusive has found its way over to PC - and the results are spectacular. Sony Santa Monica ha…

www.eurogamer.net

Ah, you found an exception.

Or maybe a poor port for Sony exclusives is still better than PC games in general.

 

[Bojji]

Same reason that PS5 games aren't blowing PS4 games out of the water. We are reaching the limits of traditional raster coupled with 4K 120Hz pushing 16 times the pixels as 1080p 30.

4k 120hz?

Recent games:

 

[Leonidas]

TLOU2, God of War Ragnarok and Horizon 2 are on PC already?…

Horizon 2 hits in a few weeks, the others haven't satisfied their exclusivity period yet (Horizon 2's release date is 2 years and 1 month after the initial launch, with the complete edition).

 

[Leonidas]

Ah, you found an exception.

Or maybe a poor port for Sony exclusives is still better than PC games in general.

Horizon was a bad port at launch but it got better. And PC hardware is not static, PC hardware of today is much more powerful than when the game launched.

A decent PC port (Horizon) is still better than the PS5 version. The game running on PS5 is capped at 60 FPS and uses checkerboarding. The PC version can go to 120 (or higher), and can use DLSS, or native, if you prefer...

 

[bad guy]

Production-value, imo.

To me, AAA titles like TLOU, GOW and Horizon might not always push graphics/performance as much as PC (mainly due hardware limitations), but they are far more polished.

Hence why I never really cared much for PC gaming.

PC games are more than GFX and performance.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

PC games are more than GFX and performance.

Yes, games in general are.

That's why I said what I said.

Horizon was a bad port at launch but it got better. And PC hardware is not static, PC hardware of today is much more powerful than when the game launched.

A decent PC port (Horizon) is still better than the PS5 version. The game running on PS5 is capped at 60 FPS and uses checkerboarding. The PC version can go to 120 (or higher), and can use DLSS, or native, if you prefer...

I'm well aware of that. But it's completely besides the point.

There's a reason why console-only gamers exist and why there’s PC port-begging for Sony 1st party.
The other way round is much less prevalent.

 

[Leonidas]

I'm well aware of that. But it's completely besides the point.

There's a reason why console-only gamers exist and why there’s PC port-begging for Sony 1st party.
The other way round is much less prevalent.

There's no reason for PC gamers to port beg given that Sony's biggest AAA games (the ones you mentioned + Spider-Man Series and Ratchet Rift Apart) all came to PC.

 

[hyperbertha]

lol star citizen blows anything away that consoles have...ps5 is not even that good anymore. star citizen is the true pc power, modern day crysis...i know cause ispent 15k on it and i love playing it.

Well when you spent 15k you have no choice to be delusional and in denial.

 

[mdkirby]

At some point expensive ai chips will remedy this. Every texture will be reprocessed with an ai upscale like magnific. Then the final output will also have real-time ai processing again via something like magnific. It would be interesting if this is able to be backwards compatible and just take any old game and effectively remaster it, without any other form of integration.

 

[Kiya's Guard]

Games get made for the lowest/average console, then get ported to pc with a couple goodies. Even if a game is pc exclusive, it's a business and the product needs to be financially sustainable.
Making an exclusive pc game that only runs on the highest hardware would be a sales suicide.

Not to mention on pc everything runs via brute force, there's no way we can have the level of optimization that a closed hardware of a console has.

 

[TxKnight7]

Crysis did
Cyberpunk with path tracing
next is SQ42

 

[Zathalus]

I love how you always completely miss the point and ignore the fact that the PC-ports always come with issues.

Most PC games do not come with issues. It's why the handful that do get all the discussion surrounding them.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Most PC games do not come with issues. It's why the handful that do get all the discussion surrounding them.

Sure, but I was talking about Sony PC releases, not PC games in general.

But when it comes to PC games in general, I point to what I initially said.

 

[metareferential]

They actually do, when they're not the exact same game with same assets.

And even then, being able to play with stable image quality at double (or more) the framerate still is blowing them out completely.

Without even talking about mods and other big improvements.

 

[Zathalus]

Sure, but I was talking about Sony PC releases, not PC games in general.

But when it comes to PC games in general, I point to what I initially said.

Most Sony releases are fine. The only terrible ones were Last of Us and Horizon Zero Dawn. Others had minor issues, but they were extremely minor.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Most Sony releases are fine. The only terrible ones were Last of Us and Horizon Zero Dawn. Others had minor issues, but they were extremely minor.

Fair enough.

My point still stands though.

 

[64bitmodels]

How long GAF is going to be obsess with graphics? .

Forever, specifically to piss YOU off. Thats just teh nature of this forum lol

 

[64bitmodels]

4k 120hz?

Recent games:

damn i didnt know forspoken was the only recent game ever made!

 

[64bitmodels]

No one is making true PC exclusives like Crysis anymore.

If we're going by your definition of PC Exclusive wouldn't CP2077 count as an exclusive since it's best played and optimized for PC?

Because Crysis was on Xbox 360 and PS3 3 years after the initial release....

Doom was on PS1 and SNES of all systems
Quake 1 was on PS1 and Saturn..>
Deus Ex was on PS2... etc

 

[rofif]

If we're going by your definition of PC Exclusive wouldn't CP2077 count as an exclusive since it's best played and optimized for PC?

Because Crysis was on Xbox 360 and PS3 3 years after the initial release....

Doom was on PS1 and SNES of all systems
Quake 1 was on PS1 and Saturn..>
Deus Ex was on PS2... etc

it's a thin line.
You would think red alert is a pc game through and through.
But I still remember my uncle in early 2000s, hardcoring red alert on ps1....

 

[64bitmodels]

it's a thin line.
You would think red alert is a pc game through and through.
But I still remember my uncle in early 2000s, hardcoring red alert on ps1....

Yep exactly lol.

There aren't many actual pc exclusives these days. For consoles the word means games that are only playable on a console

For pc, it means games which are intended to be played on pc. It's vague and odd.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Games get made for the lowest/average console, then get ported to pc with a couple goodies. Even if a game is pc exclusive, it's a business and the product needs to be financially sustainable.
Making an exclusive pc game that only runs on the highest hardware would be a sales suicide.

Not to mention on pc everything runs via brute force, there's no way we can have the level of optimization that a closed hardware of a console has.

No they get made with the lowest denominator in mind which is lower end PC specs.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Time, budgets, and priority is what it always will come down to.

The real question we need to start asking is why a game like Spider Man 2 cost 3x the amount that Spider-Man 1 did, and yet doesn't look visually a whole lot better, despite being a game built for specifically for the PS5 hardware.

Tools need to get better. AI should help out immensely in many of improving literally all of these areas the coming years.

 

[64bitmodels]

No they get made with the lowest denominator in mind which is lower end PC specs.

Can we stop with this stupid myth already? Most modern pc ports have minimum requirements that far exceed the series s which is the real lowest denominator.

Comparing only gpus here since I'm on phone, but

Alan wake 2 requested a rx 6600 as the minimum spec, a card that is slightly slower than the ps5.

Bg3 asked for an rx 580 which is.still faster than the Xbox series s gpu.

Dead space remake also wanted a 970

Most pc gamers who have lower specs than that would not be playing these games anyways since the lower spec pc gamers are only really playing csgo and lol on their pcs, that alongside indies

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Can we stop with this stupid myth already? Most modern pc ports have minimum requirements that far exceed the series s which is the real lowest denominator.

Comparing only gpus here since I'm on phone, but

Alan wake 2 requested a rx 6600 as the minimum spec, a card that is slightly slower than the ps5.

Bg3 asked for an rx 580 which is.still faster than the Xbox series s gpu.

Dead space remake also wanted a 970

Most pc gamers who have lower specs than that would not be playing these games anyways since the lower spec pc gamers are only really playing csgo and lol on their pcs, that alongside indies

This is false series s is more powerful than the minimum requirements.

I can get more if need be.
Let me know.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Simple, because all the development money is based on the console market, thus your 4090 will be always held back by "inferior" hardware.

So 4090 is not held back by PC gamers with inferior cards? (which is the vast majority according to Steam stats)

Hardware aside, pushing the limits demands a ton of human work that just doesn't pay off. The ROI is abysmal.

 

[64bitmodels]

This is false series s is more powerful than the minimum requirements.

I can get more if need be.
Let me know.

You probably should then since that is one game as opposed to the 3 I listed.

 

[RoadHazard]

When you've heard a word being said but have never seen it in writing.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

You probably should then since that is one game as opposed to the 3 I listed.

Just showing recent releases.

Persona 3 Reloaded