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Can Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart on PC match - and exceed - the PS5 experience?

bender

What time is it?
You put a nice interpretation on those words, but at the face value he's saying the game would be impossible without SSD. Nowhere did he claim that the game could also be possible on old hardware at slower speeds to give credit to his words about blazing fast speeds. I can give you credit for trying to put context to his words, but the reality is he never put context to them and neither did Insomniac for months leading up to release even though they knew very well all the arguments about the topic that were taking place on social media.

So really people took those words at face value and the fact that Insomniac never claimed otherwise amidst the controversy just shows they were ok with this lie. Not surprising because Sony was lying and trucking people a lot leading up to the launch of PS5.

No, I actually read the entire quote you provided instead of selecting a portion of the quote to bolster a flawed narrative.
 

lmimmfn

Member

I doubt this, those cards shouldn't reach the maximum bandwidth of PCIE 3 x16.
I could be wrong though I'll admit it as havn't checked max mem bw on PCIE 3 x16 vs the different nvidia 30 series cards as I lost interest as you couldn't get one due to miners.

Just checked this and its the 3080 that is tested(capable of much higher bandwidth than a 3070) - https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-pci-express-scaling/25.html

I call BS on that twitter tweet.
 
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Edder1

Member
No, I actually read the entire quote you provided instead of selecting a portion of the quote to bolster a flawed narrative.
And yet he said you can't run the game on old hardware(HDD) period and never said you could but it would load slower, lol. I think it's you who added interpretation to fit your narrative.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Your must have been missing in 2020 cause this was all over internet, but here it is:

"Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a game that utilises dimensions and dimensional rifts, and that would not have been possible without the solid state drive of the PlayStation 5," explains Smith.


They also doubled down on that rhetoric on social media and other quotes prior to release.

Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a game that utilises dimensions and dimensional rifts, and that would not have been possible without the solid state drive of the PlayStation 5," explains Smith. "The SSD is screamingly fast, it allows us to build worlds and project players from one place to another at near-instantaneous speeds.

He was clearly talking about near-instantaneous speeds, not that it couldn't run on other hardware.

When people in the real world say, "I couldn't do this without you" they're not saying they're the only ones in the world that could help them.

The dev is saying they couldn't do near-instantaneous speed without the SSD. They never said it wasn't possible only on the PS5. That's just a false narrative you're trying to push.

But if you still want to stick to this narrative, then you could easily say this was before DirectStorage was even a factor on PC, even before the 3000 and 4000 series NVIDA GPUs with tons of video memory.

If using this hardware proves they're liars, then that would make Microsoft liars when they called Xbox Series X the most powerful console in the world when the PlayStation 5 Pro comes out.
 

Edder1

Member
It's in the same article, lol. He said the game mechanics can only run on SSD, which is indirectly saying it wouldn't run on HDDs.

It's funny to me how you claim that it's the "PS fanboys" who interpreted those worlds to mean that the game would only run on PS5 SSD when in 2020 everyone understood those words to mean exactly that. Not that it would run exclusively on PS5 SSD, but that the game would only work on SSD. This was the consensus back then and everyone's interpretation of those words, but now in 2023 when the game comes out and works on HDDs people are trying to put "context" to those words, lol. I remember DF, NX Gamer and everyone claiming that the game wouldn't run on HDD and that's how everyone understood what Insomniac said.

Look, you can try to interpret things differently now in hindsight if you wish, but that won't change how things went down back when the whole debacle was taking place.
 

Rubim

Member
So instead of assuming stuff, lets get some data. Using the BulkLoadDemo i got:

NO GPU:
CXq7Af6.png

8.68gb Data in 0.68 seconds
6.22% CPU
12.84GB/S

WITH GPU
t8Tn3yc.png

8.63gb Data in 0.50 seconds
1.85% CPU
21.62GB/S

That should be enough for this game, no?

SAUCE:

COMPILED SAUCE:
1.2 WITH GPU:

1.1 WITHOUT GPU DECOMPRESSION:
 
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Optimus Lime

(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
Didn't even crack the top 100 ccu on steam on launch day, peaked around ~8700. Not sure if it's the good will burn't on tlou1 or just not something pc players care to drop full price on. For comparison Remnant 2 cracked the top 10 with 83k ccu today even with the outcry about it's performance.
I imagine that the number of PCMR neverconsole weirdos is actually quite small, and most people who want to play Ratchet have bought it on the PS5. I know that I'm not going to double dip on something like that when I can just hit the button on the remote and be playing it there.
 

peter064

Neo Member
Your must have been missing in 2020 cause this was all over internet, but here it is:

"Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a game that utilises dimensions and dimensional rifts, and that would not have been possible without the solid state drive of the PlayStation 5," explains Smith.


They also doubled down on that rhetoric on social media and other quotes prior to release.

Why not watch the video where the quote is taken from and watch where he says what they wanted to create would not have been done on previous gen (basically naming PS4). People are taking the quote of the article and making their own spin when in reality watching the video is where you get the whole context of him talking about the PS4 and PS5 and not anything else.

 

bender

What time is it?
It's in the same article, lol. He said the game mechanics can only run on SSD, which is indirectly saying it wouldn't run on HDDs.

No he didn't. For someone who like to throw out accusation of lies, you sure do lie a lot. The alternative is you have really poor reading comprehension.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Alright, so this game is fascinating in terms of what it does. Some really strong texture streaming that stresses the 4090 even. Although I'd wager, the slowdowns aren't caused by the card itself but another part of the PC I/O pipeline which isn't all that efficient and hasn't changed since forever. I think Alex from DF also theorized back then that moving to PCIE Gen 5 wouldn't make a difference.





I'm also assuming texture quality on PS5 is always set to the highest no matter what. I really wish more developers pushed entire systems like R&C does. I don't wanna get ahead of myself, but it looks like a technological marvel.
 
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bender

What time is it?
Why not watch the video where the quote is taken from and watch where he says what they wanted to create would not have been done on previous gen (basically naming PS4). People are taking the quote of the article and making their own spin when in reality watching the video is where you get the whole context of him talking about the PS4 and PS5 and not anything else.


shocked-surprised.gif
 
Alright, so this game is fascinating in terms of what it does. Some really strong texture streaming that stresses the 4090 even. Although I'd wager, the slowdowns aren't caused by the card itself but another part of the PC I/O pipeline which isn't all that efficient and hasn't changed since forever. I think Alex from DF also theorized back then that moving to PCIE Gen 5 wouldn't make a difference.





I'm also assuming texture quality on PS5 is always set to the highest no matter what. I really wish more developers pushed entire systems like R&C does. I don't wanna get ahead of myself, but it looks like a technological marvel.


You're saying the bottleneck is in the I/O pipeline on the software side, but wasn't DirectStorage meant to address that exact problem?
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
This game flopping seems more important than running it off a zip drive IMO. It’s not even in the top 100 most played games on launch day.

Depends what the expectations were. It's a 2-year old mascot platformer/shooter. Not much of an audience for these games anymore.

Might end up selling 200-300K copies which could be enough for Sony.
You're saying the bottleneck is in the I/O pipeline on the software side, but wasn't DirectStorage meant to address that exact problem?
At least part of it but this entirely depends where the bottleneck lies. In the GPU decompression test of DirectStorage 1.3, some drives blow past 30GB/s but in the game, people report R/W speeds no higher than 1.2GB/s. Also, this is me just speculating based on the data I have. I could be completely off the mark.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
This game flopping seems more important than running it off a zip drive IMO. It’s not even in the top 100 most played games on launch day.

Hopefully Sony gets the memo.
 

Buggy Loop

Gold Member
To be honest, I'm really interested in Ratchet and Clank but i'm already deeeeeep in backlog and crazy months coming up with BG3, AC6 & Starfield. On top of that i bought Days Gone, Spiderman remastered and Returnal and i barely scratched Returnal and haven't even installed the others.

I don't have enough time :lollipop_weary:

If they bring Bloodborne, i would be there day 0 and MARATHON it
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
To illustrate his point that there's a massive difference between a 3070 running on PCIE4 vs 3( there isn't) he's illustrating the difference between a GPU on PCIE2(which is PCIE3 x8) vs PCIE3(x16).

He makes no sense.

No, he's comparing the performance profile of PCIE boards and using MM game and 3070 as the independent dependent variables. He's trying to extrapolate to get to an educated guess for impact on Ratchet since he doesn't have Gen4 board
 

lmimmfn

Member
No, he's comparing the performance profile of PCIE boards and using MM game and 3070 as the independent dependent variables. He's trying to extrapolate to get to an educated guess for impact on Ratchet since he doesn't have Gen4 board
But he said there's a huge difference in PCIE4 with a 3070 vs PCIE3 which is not the case and how can he say that if he doesn't have a Gen4 mobo?
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
But he said there's a huge difference in PCIE4 with a 3070 vs PCIE3 which is not the case and how can he say that if he doesn't have a Gen4 mobo?

No, he didn't. He said they will LIKELY see a difference because he noticed the saturation difference between Gen2 and Gen3 for the same game. He then compared the limited difference of MM between Gen2 and Gen 3.
 

Hoddi

Member
No, he didn't. He said they will LIKELY see a difference because he noticed the saturation difference between Gen2 and Gen3 for the same game. He then compared the limited difference of MM between Gen2 and Gen 3.
I'm pretty sure the guy is just wrong and running out VRAM from having RT enabled. The smoking bullet is that he's using Medium settings which barely streams any data from disk.

I already ran some tests comparing disk reads during the intro sequence and here's how they stack up.

PS5: ~16GB
PC Very High: ~19GB
PC High: ~5GB
PC Medium: ~1.8GB

I'm running the game on Very High settings without RT and it barely makes a blip on the bus load. He's running on Medium settings with RT and it's completely thrashing his bus. Both of us are on PCIe 3.0 so it's clearly not because of DirectStorage when my game is pushing 10x more disk data through.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
I'm pretty sure the guy is just wrong and running out VRAM from having RT enabled. The smoking bullet is that he's using Medium settings which barely streams any data from disk.

I already ran some tests comparing disk reads during the intro sequence and here's how they stack up.

PS5: ~16GB
PC Very High: ~19GB
PC High: ~5GB
PC Medium: ~1.8GB

I'm running the game on Very High settings without RT and it barely makes a blip on the bus load. He's running on Medium settings with RT and it's completely thrashing his bus. Both of us are on PCIe 3.0 so it's clearly not because of DirectStorage when my game is pushing 10x more disk data through.

But his GPU remains at full utilization.
 

Dirk Benedict

Gold Member
Running everything on Ultra(that you can run) with DLSS Quality. While streaming on Twitch at 1080p/60fps. Rock solid 60 fps at 4k.
My machine doing what it was intended to do. Also, I just want to say this game is fucking silly-fun! I like the humor and the overall aesthetic. It's refreshing.
I don't have RT on in any capacity, btw. I would if I had an 4090. :messenger_weary:
 
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Hoddi

Member
But his GPU remains at full utilization.
Look at his power usage. The 3070 is a 220w card but it's only using 120-150w in his screenshots. That strongly suggests that it's underutilized.

'GPU utilization' is just a measure of work scheduled by Windows and doesn't really say anything about how busy the physical chip is. Encoding a video with NVENC will show the GPU being fully utilized, for example, but it only uses a tiny part of the chip. For all we know, it's just Windows issuing copy commands because he's running out of VRAM.

Hard to say obviously. But I really doubt it's anything else since my own PCIe load is nothing remotely like his in this game.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
Look at his power usage. The 3070 is a 220w card but it's only using 120-150w in his screenshots. That strongly suggests that it's underutilized.

'GPU utilization' is just a measure of work scheduled by Windows and doesn't really say anything about how busy the physical chip is. Encoding a video with NVENC will show the GPU being fully utilized, for example, but it only uses a tiny part of the chip. For all we know, it's just Windows issuing copy commands because he's running out of VRAM.

Hard to say obviously. But I really doubt it's anything else since my own PCIe load is nothing remotely like his in this game.

Ok perhaps. I appreciate you providing stats as always.
 

Larxia

Member
This game flopping seems more important than running it off a zip drive IMO. It’s not even in the top 100 most played games on launch day.

I don't find it very surprising, it's a very short game, sold at full price, 2 years after its console release. It will sell better during sales but right now it's too much for what it is I think.
It was the same for Uncharted for example, all time peak 10k, Ratchet is at 8,7k, that's just slightly lower.
 

Dirk Benedict

Gold Member
The ends aren't justifying the means.

I think they are/will. This was never a huge system seller to begin with. I am just happy they are successful enough to warrant sequels. These games are surprisingly fun and game-play heavy. Something that is missing in a lot of the triple A releases that are like visual bimbos without the substance(gameplay).

This game is a complete package. I was missing out, but being patient has paid off.
 
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