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[sinnergy]

First of all - Mesh shaders is a hardware implementation of primitive shaders.

Secondly - you are right that the above implementation of varied degree of shader work and culling of geometry is something that the PS5 does not have.

However - culling of geometry and what parts of that geometry that gets shaders applied (and to what extent) is instead done on the geometry engine level.

I.e. PS5 has the full functionality (and according to claims - a bit more than that) of what the 'mesh shaders' are doing on Nvidia and AMD cards but the 'how' is different since it is all driven by the geometry engine instead of a hardware piece downstream of the GE.

Most people reading that PS5 does not have mesh shaders interpret that as if the PS5 does not have that function and that is incorrect. It has the full functionality but it is achieved differently.

Which hardware implementation of this functionality is better? Who knows but Cerny is good at what he is doing.

PR you mean just kidding ..

 

[longdi]

The PS5 method is inferior because it's not a fully reinvented/programmable geometry pipeline on the level of what Nvidia did with Turing/Ampere and what AMD did RDNA2 on PC and Xbox Series X/S. Primitive Shaders is an in-between step that AMD has moved on from because it isn't better than Mesh Shaders. Primitive Shaders was first introduced in Vega, but due to some hardware problem it was never exposed for use. It was fixed for RDNA 1st gen, and then immediately abandoned/taken to a whole other level for RDNA2 with Mesh Shaders.

Microsoft waited longer to get the full feature, not the mere point revision.

iirc ps5 version was more for vr application

 

[M1chl]

This says more about the state of DirectX than the hardware.

How so, if nVidia can pull this off?

 

[longdi]

So you are suggesting its dangerous to rely on TFLOPs as an absolute indicator of performance?

Hmm... coudlve sworn i heard that somewhere before. Well.

they can work hand in hand though. quite a big jump in perf when using mesh shaders, im kinda surprised to see the numbers

 

[SantaC]

Synthetic benchmark vs actual games. It doesnt matter.

 

[Elog]

The PS5 method is inferior because it's not a fully reinvented/programmable geometry pipeline on the level of what Nvidia did with Turing/Ampere and what AMD did RDNA2 on PC and Xbox Series X/S. Primitive Shaders is an in-between step that AMD has moved on from because it isn't better than Mesh Shaders. Primitive Shaders was first introduced in Vega, but due to some hardware problem it was never exposed for use. It was fixed for RDNA 1st gen, and then immediately abandoned/taken to a whole other level for RDNA2 with Mesh Shaders.

Microsoft waited longer to get the full feature, not the mere point revision.

This is not correct.

Check the API calls for the current Mesh shader implementation for AMD cards and at the bottom of the stack there you have primitive shaders, i.e. mesh shaders is basically a way to prioritise and implement primitive shaders on AMD hardware.

Not sure where you get the impression that the PS5 has less programmable geometry functionality since all data we have been given suggests the opposite.

 

[Armorian]

AMD had piss poor tesselation in many of their GPU arch (still weaker than Nvidia), maybe this is similar.

 

[IntentionalPun]

So explain to me how Vulkan and OpenGL supports Mesh Shaders too?

Mesh Shaders is a change in the shading pipeline... nVidia introduced it way better AMD or MS start to talk about it.
PS5 support that too... how Sony implemented it in their APU is what you need to ask.

What does that have to do with the PS5 specifically?

Vulkan also supports 10 year old graphics cards.

If PS5 doesn't support mesh shaders, then the question is how PS5's other customizations compete against them.. and they might beat them.

 

[ethomaz]

What does that have to do with the PS5 specifically?

Vulkan also supports 10 year old graphics cards.

If PS5 doesn't support mesh shaders, then the question is how PS5's other customizations compete against them.. and they might beat them.

Ask who I quoted lol

 

[IntentionalPun]

Ask who I quoted lol

More "who's on first" bullshit from you lol

 

[ethomaz]

More "who's on first" bullshit from you lol

"What does that have to do with the PS5 specifically?"

I'm not the one that bring PS5 to the discussion lol
You have some crazy things happening in your head lol

It doesn't have anything to do with PS5... the guy tried to say something that is not related like Mesh Shaders is not something exclusive and can be implemented in any API and that included PS5 if Sony wants (it has the hardware for that).

But maybe you not even took your time to read the quoted post and called his bullshit (I know you are incapable of that) instead to come and make weird questions lol

 

[3liteDragon]

It is supported on Nvidia Turing and Ampere hardware, and now RDNA2. It isn't supported for RDNA 1st gen that only supports the same primitive shaders that's inside the PS5 via the same Geometry Engine. Series X, meanwhile has a mesh shading geometry engine. The Playstation 5 does not support Mesh Shaders. It has something that works in a similar way, but simply doesn't go nearly as far, that's primitive shaders. (And no, I'm not saying PS5 is RDNA1, it's clearly a hybrid/custom design, but it's using the RDNA 1st gen geometry engine)

No it isn't lol, I'm willing to bet the custom implementation on PS5 is more advanced than the RDNA 1 and RDNA 2 DX12 implementation. Plus we've got multiple reliable insiders like MLiD and RGT (I would say RGT has a more solid track record though) saying RDNA 3 basically has the PS5's implementation of the Geometry Engine.

(timestamped, 25:33 - 27:51)

 

[Fredrik]

Dodged a bullet when I didn’t go with AMD...

Took a bullet when I cancelled the 3080 preorder after AMD’s showcase...

 

[Ascend]

And here we are again... A bunch of people that don't know what they're looking at, bragging about things they don't understand.

You can start by reading this;

Coming to DirectX 12— Mesh Shaders and Amplification Shaders: Reinventing the Geometry Pipeline - DirectX Developer Blog

D3D12 is adding two new shader stages: the Mesh Shader and the Amplification Shader. These additions will streamline the rendering pipeline, while simultaneously boosting flexibility and efficiency. In this new and improved pre-rasterization pipeline, Mesh and Amplification Shaders will...

devblogs.microsoft.com

 

[IntentionalPun]

"What does that have to do with the PS5 specifically?"

I'm not the one that bring PS5 to the discussion lol
You have some crazy things happening in your head lol

It doesn't have anything to do with PS5... the guy tried to say something that is not related like Mesh Shaders is not something exclusive and can be implemented in any API and that included PS5 if Sony wants (it has the hardware for that).

Mesh shaders aren’t supported on all hardware... you clearly don’t get that, hence your dumbass question about why Vulkan and OpenGL supports them.

They only support those features on very specific graphics cards. For AMD that’s RDNA 2. And there’s loads of speculation that’s one of the things Sony doesn’t support; in fact that’s basically what everyone agrees is true.

 

[ethomaz]

Mesh shaders aren’t supported on all hardware... you clearly don’t get that, hence your dumbass question about why Vulkan and OpenGL supports them.

They only support those features on very specific graphics cards. For AMD that’s RDNA 2. And there’s loads of speculation that’s one of the things Sony doesn’t support; in fact that’s basically what everyone agrees is true.

Yeap... you are right my bullshiter master lol

PS5 is RDNA2... shocking I know it should be a public info lol

 

[Evilms]

Nvidia > AMD

nothing new

 

[IntentionalPun]

Yeap... you are right my bullshiter master lol

PS5 is RDNA2... shocking I know it should be a public info lol

We know PS5 doesn't support the full feature set of RDNA2.

And everyone but you seems to know that includes lack of AMD's mesh shader support for RDNA 2.

Sony has a bunch of patents suggesting they have a similar ability... it differs from AMD's in some way.

MS has AMD's mesh shaders.. and MS didn't bring them to the GDK until June of 2020, and they've been rumored to be causing problems (but again, just rumors.. the GDK in general has been rumored to be causing problems due to how late it was "completed." Not really though as it's continually upgraded.)

Unity and Vulkan are known to have support for nVidia and AMD's Mesh Shaders.. I'm sure they'll also support whatever PS5 does, but we don't know if that's now or later.. or what the performance difference is. Sony's solution could be better, or worse, or roughly the same.

 

[ethomaz]

We know PS5 doesn't support the full feature set of RDNA2.

And everyone but you seems to know that includes lack of AMD's mesh shader support for RDNA 2.

Sony has a bunch of patents suggesting they have a similar ability... it differs from AMD's in some way.

MS has AMD's mesh shaders.. and MS didn't bring them to the GDK until June of 2020, and they've been rumored to be causing problems (but again, just rumors.. the GDK in general has been rumored to be causing problems due to how late it was "completed." Not really though as it's continually upgraded.)

Unity and Vulkan are known to have support for nVidia and AMD's Mesh Shaders.. I'm sure they'll also support whatever PS5 does, but we don't know if that's now or later.. or what the performance difference is. Sony's solution could be better, or worse, or roughly the same.

So you are telling me that the Primitive Units inside the Geometry Engine on RDNA 2 are different from the Primitive Units inside the Geometry Engine on PS5 RDNA 2 based GPU? Hard to believe.

 

[Kazekage1981]

i was the one stating that mesh shaders doesnt apply to PS5, because its a Windows/MS specific thing linked to its direct x 12 ultimate API.

-PS5 is heavily hardware and software customized with its own API's (i dont know its name, its def not direct x 12), and the only thing that i could think of that (mesh shaders) is related to this is geometry engine. I have a very poor understanding of PS5 customizations, with Sony itself being selective and ambiguous of what it is.

-the thread is mostly about mesh shaders being applied to NVIDIA turing/ampere architecture and AMD RDNA 2 architecture and the differences between them. I was just stating i dont think this applies to PS5 even though its RDNA 2.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

This is not correct.

Check the API calls for the current Mesh shader implementation for AMD cards and at the bottom of the stack there you have primitive shaders, i.e. mesh shaders is basically a way to prioritise and implement primitive shaders on AMD hardware.

Not sure where you get the impression that the PS5 has less programmable geometry functionality since all data we have been given suggests the opposite.

Again, this is not accurate. Primitive Shaders still includes the Input Assembler Stage of the Geometry Pipeline, whereas Mesh Shaders goes further in getting rid of it completely, or being able to do what it does entirely without it.

Coming to DirectX 12— Mesh Shaders and Amplification Shaders: Reinventing the Geometry Pipeline - DirectX Developer Blog

D3D12 is adding two new shader stages: the Mesh Shader and the Amplification Shader. These additions will streamline the rendering pipeline, while simultaneously boosting flexibility and efficiency. In this new and improved pre-rasterization pipeline, Mesh and Amplification Shaders will...

devblogs.microsoft.com

Primitive Shaders still has some of the more limiting behaviors that Mesh Shaders goes much further towards getting rid of. Go look up any technical definition of Primitive Shaders, and you will see that it doesn't as completely change the entire geometry pipeline as Mesh Shaders does.

Pay attention to the part where they say the input assembler has to dynamically identify vertex reuse every time a mesh is drawn. Not so with Mesh Shaders, it avoids that kind of process altogether.

Another example where it's made clear that it's replacing the input assembler stage.

D3D12 is adding two new shader stages: the Mesh Shader and the Amplification Shader. These additions will streamline the rendering pipeline, while simultaneously boosting flexibility and efficiency. In this new and improved pre-rasterization pipeline, Mesh and Amplification Shaders will optionally replace the section of the pipeline consisting of the Input Assembler as well as Vertex, Geometry, Domain, and Hull Shaders with richer and more general purpose capabilities. This is possible through a reimagination of how geometry is processed.

Have a look at the patent for Primitive Shaders. Read from the patent what it says about the old pipeline. https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180082399A1/en

here's what it looks like with prim shaders active in figure 4A. Notice the Input Assembler is still there? Mesh Shaders goes beyond that.

Ultimate goal of Mesh Shaders along with Amplification Shaders, which Series X also supports, is to get rid of the hardware tesselator.

Mesh Shader

Engineering specs for DirectX features.

microsoft.github.io

I think this is a major part of the reason Microsoft made the Series X GPU so big in the first place. They wanted as much compute capability as possible on as many ALUs to take advantage of where videogame graphics is headed, and it's definitely towards a more compute based model. I also suspect Primitive Shaders still largely relies on a hardware tesselation unit, whereas Mesh Shaders has the ability to go beyond the fixed function limitation.

Finally look at Nvidia's own illustration. Notice how there is no "Tesselation Stage" at all in the drastically altered mesh shader pipeline in Nvidia's illustration?

Meanwhile in the primitive shader patent, what do you see? https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180082399A1/en

The world-space pipeline 430 includes a surface shader 402 and a primitive shader 404. The surface shader 402 is enabled when tessellation is enabled. When tessellation is enabled, the surface shader 402 implements the functionality of the vertex shader stage 304 and the hull shader stage 306. The tessellator stage 308 is still implemented in fixed function hardware. The surface shader 402 is disabled when tessellation is disabled. The surface shader 402 is implemented partially or fully as a shader program executing on the parallel processing units.


Mesh Shaders based on the information present, clearly is on another level from Primitive Shaders. This is why AMD followed Nvidia's lead and moved to Mesh Shaders with RDNA2 on PC. Only consoles that support this are Xbox Series X|S. PS5 doesn't.

 

[martino]

Mesh Shaders based on the information present, clearly is on another level from Primitive Shaders. This is why AMD followed Nvidia's lead and moved to Mesh Shaders with RDNA2 on PC. Only consoles that support this are Xbox Series X|S. PS5 doesn't.

it seems rdna 2 doesn't support it well too.
if it's not a bug and rdna2 follow the design why zero cu scaling ?

 

[assurdum]

Again, this is not accurate. Primitive Shaders still includes the Input Assembler Stage of the Geometry Pipeline, whereas Mesh Shaders goes further in getting rid of it completely, or being able to do what it does entirely without it.

Coming to DirectX 12— Mesh Shaders and Amplification Shaders: Reinventing the Geometry Pipeline - DirectX Developer Blog

D3D12 is adding two new shader stages: the Mesh Shader and the Amplification Shader. These additions will streamline the rendering pipeline, while simultaneously boosting flexibility and efficiency. In this new and improved pre-rasterization pipeline, Mesh and Amplification Shaders will...

devblogs.microsoft.com

Primitive Shaders still has some of the more limiting behaviors that Mesh Shaders goes much further towards getting rid of. Go look up any technical definition of Primitive Shaders, and you will see that it doesn't as completely change the entire geometry pipeline as Mesh Shaders does.

Pay attention to the part where they say the input assembler has to dynamically identify vertex reuse every time a mesh is drawn. Not so with Mesh Shaders, it avoids that kind of process altogether.

Another example where it's made clear that it's replacing the input assembler stage.




Have a look at the patent for Primitive Shaders. Read from the patent what it says about the old pipeline. https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180082399A1/en

here's what it looks like with prim shaders active in figure 4A. Notice the Input Assembler is still there? Mesh Shaders goes beyond that.

Ultimate goal of Mesh Shaders along with Amplification Shaders, which Series X also supports, is to get rid of the hardware tesselator.

Mesh Shader

Engineering specs for DirectX features.

microsoft.github.io

I think this is a major part of the reason Microsoft made the Series X GPU so big in the first place. They wanted as much compute capability as possible on as many ALUs to take advantage of where videogame graphics is headed, and it's definitely towards a more compute based model. I also suspect Primitive Shaders still largely relies on a hardware tesselation unit, whereas Mesh Shaders has the ability to go beyond the fixed function limitation.

Finally look at Nvidia's own illustration. Notice how there is no "Tesselation Stage" at all in the drastically altered mesh shader pipeline in Nvidia's illustration?

Meanwhile in the primitive shader patent, what do you see? https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180082399A1/en

The world-space pipeline 430 includes a surface shader 402 and a primitive shader 404. The surface shader 402 is enabled when tessellation is enabled. When tessellation is enabled, the surface shader 402 implements the functionality of the vertex shader stage 304 and the hull shader stage 306. The tessellator stage 308 is still implemented in fixed function hardware. The surface shader 402 is disabled when tessellation is disabled. The surface shader 402 is implemented partially or fully as a shader program executing on the parallel processing units.


Mesh Shaders based on the information present, clearly is on another level from Primitive Shaders. This is why AMD followed Nvidia's lead and moved to Mesh Shaders with RDNA2 on PC. Only consoles that support this are Xbox Series X|S. PS5 doesn't.

Or maybe it's happened that:
AMD: do you like to have our mesh shaders version?
Sony (looking to the Vega benchmark): no no no no no no no no but thanks

 

[Azurro]

Hmm does not bode well for Consoles.

True, even if AMD caught up very nicely in performance, in terms of features they are one arch gen behind NVidia. What I'm wondering is if the PS5 will do better since they have some custom silicon for this.

 

[SmokSmog]

I have good news for you
Before and after driver update

 

[ethomaz]

i was the one stating that mesh shaders doesnt apply to PS5, because its a Windows/MS specific thing linked to its direct x 12 ultimate API.

-PS5 is heavily hardware and software customized with its own API's (i dont know its name, its def not direct x 12), and the only thing that i could think of that (mesh shaders) is related to this is geometry engine. I have a very poor understanding of PS5 customizations, with Sony itself being selective and ambiguous of what it is.

-the thread is mostly about mesh shaders being applied to NVIDIA turing/ampere architecture and AMD RDNA 2 architecture and the differences between them. I was just stating i dont think this applies to PS5 even though its RDNA 2.

It is not Windows/MS specific in any way.

OpenGL and Vulkan works in Linux/Mac and supports Mash Shaders outside Windows/MS.

 

[martino]

i remember that from one reeeeeeee post :

To support mesh shader in its purest form, you'll need the GPU's command processor to be able to launch shader in mesh shader's way. If the command processor somehow isn't able so, as long as the API exposes good level of hardware detail, developers should be able to take most of mesh shader's advantages. If it's like AMD's approach with in-driver shader transformation, then the advantage will be limited compare to full mesh shader support, as programmability will be greatly sacrificed.

could that be what's hapening ?

 

[Kazekage1981]

It is not Windows/MS specific in any way.

OpenGL and Vulkan works in Linux/Mac and supports Mash Shaders outside Windows/MS.

Thanks for correction, but OpenGL and Vulkan is NOT used in PS5 or PS4/PS4Pro correct?

 

[martino]

I have good news for you
Before and after driver update

good news.

 

[CrustyBritches]

They should release those benchmarks on consoles just for the lolz

AMD and/or Sony were testing early PS5 chips on 3DMark's Fire Strike.

 

[MCplayer]

wondering why a 1660 ti ran better then the 3090 with mesh shaders off

 

[AGRacing]

Some more real world results...

 

[MasterCornholio]

Or maybe it's happened that:
AMD: do you like to have our mesh shaders version?
Sony (looking to the Vega benchmark): no no no no no no no no but thanks

Definitely a possibility. It could very well be that Sony didn't like all the features of RDNA2 and choose to implement their own. I know AMD engineers are very good at what they do and I wouldn't take their decisions lightly. However it's possible that Sony found a better way of doing certain tasks since they have a lot of experience making games.

Who knows though I guess we have to wait and see what happens.

 

[Dampf]

I have good news for you
Before and after driver update

Mother of god....!

 

[Ascend]

wondering why a 1660 ti ran better then the 3090 with mesh shaders off

Because this ultimately has pretty much nothing to do with gaming performance. It is a metric to compare the mesh shader scaling to the 'old' method of doing things within the same architecture and is not a metric of anything else.

 

[Ascend]

I have good news for you
Before and after driver update

So...
Before driver update it was a 690.8% increase in performance.
After driver update it is a 1747.6% increase in performance.

That's quite impressive, that a simple driver update can basically more than double the efficiency of mesh shaders.

We should verify if both vendors are actually rendering the same thing. Both have cheated in the past with quality settings to become the winner in benchmarks.

 

[Elog]

Again, this is not accurate. Primitive Shaders still includes the Input Assembler Stage of the Geometry Pipeline, whereas Mesh Shaders goes further in getting rid of it completely, or being able to do what it does entirely without it.

You miss the point.

The final shader pass when using mesh shaders/VRS is more or less the same as when using primitive shaders - it is the steps before that differs.

The difference between the AMD implementation and the Sony implementation is the following (we do not know what solution is the most efficient yet):

AMD RDNA2 solution: Geometry Engine (not the same as the Sony one) generates the geometries of the environment that should go through the pipeline. The Mesh Shader/VRS functions allows the program to prioritise what parts of the geometry that should get extensive shading (focal/close areas in the final rasterised image) and what parts that can only get very simple shading (small objects/peripheral objects/ far away objects) as well as cull the parts of the 3D geometry that will not even be part of the final rasterised image to limit GPU work on these parts. On the parts that shader work is conducted on the primitive shader function play a key role.

Sony solution: The upgraded Geometry Engine generates the he geometries of the environment. Before this is passed down the GPU pipeline pieces of the geometry that will not be part of the final rasterised image are culled. Furthermore, priorities are applied to the geometry in terms of what is in the focal area, what is peripheral and what is small. This limited geometry set with priorities is then passed down the pipeline - and here primitive shaders play an important role.

The point of this is that these functions exist in both. In the AMD (and Nvidia) solution the whole geometry is passed down the pipe and culling and prioritisation happens in the pipeline. In the Sony solution this is done upfront in the geometry engine. The functionality is identical but the way to achieve it is different. The Sony solution is eerily similar to how the Unreal team talked about how they have changed the pipeline for UE5 where the geometry processing upfront drives the rest of the pipeline. It is a new way of thinking.

It will be very interesting to see how these different approaches perform vis-a-vis each other but to claim that the PS5 does not have state of the art hardware based culling and prioritisation of the rendering pipeline is 100% wrong. The open question is how these solutions will perform - both in 1st party titles and in 3rd party titles.

 

[MonarchJT]

No it isn't lol, I'm willing to bet the custom implementation on PS5 is more advanced than the RDNA 1 and RDNA 2 DX12 implementation. Plus we've got multiple reliable insiders like MLiD and RGT (I would say RGT has a more solid track record though) saying RDNA 3 basically has the PS5's implementation of the Geometry Engine.

(timestamped, 25:33 - 27:51)

ahhaahahahha this guy works on comedy chann.?
RDNA3?
my god
ps5 gpu dosn't have mesh shader . period.

 

[ethomaz]

Thanks for correction, but OpenGL and Vulkan is NOT used in PS5 or PS4/PS4Pro correct?

Specifically to PS5 I don’t know.
You can use OpenGL in PS4 (and probably PS5) but the main API in use is the own Sony one because it is specific for the hardware and so easy with better performance.

 

[3liteDragon]

ahhaahahahha this guy works on comedy chann.?
RDNA3?
my god
ps5 gpu dosn't have mesh shader . period.

PS5 doesn’t have the RDNA 1 GE, it’s fully programmable by devs according to Cerny which isn’t even possible on the RDNA 1 version.

You have no clue of what you’re talking about lol.

 

[ethomaz]

I have good news for you
Before and after driver update

There is something wrong with these results... the off performance didn’t increased but the Mesh one increased.

 

[SlimySnake]

ahhaahahahha this guy works on comedy chann.?
RDNA3?
my god
ps5 gpu dosn't have mesh shader . period.

this guy needs to stfu.

my hunch. come on. go call up cerny and get some clarity. no need for hunches when you are in the industry. they have access to dozens of developers who give them graphics settings for consoles and inside look at games. call them up if cerny refuses to talk.

 

[Clear]

ahhaahahahha this guy works on comedy chann.?
RDNA3?
my god
ps5 gpu dosn't have mesh shader . period.

You don't know better pal, stop talking like you are privy to information that literally noone has publicly.

The reason why MS waited is because they needed to have a generic DX implementation in order to support cross-platform development with PC. Sony on the other hand just needed compatibility with PS4 and were free to build out from there in any way they saw fit.

DirectX is an abstraction layer, it exists primarily top provide a common api and software interface to a multitude of physical devices, that's a lot of work, or at least a lot more work than Sony's guys had to put in. Similarly because its a generic interface a lot of technologies that it exposes need to be branded in order to familiarise engineers with classes of functionality. PS5 lies outside the DX/MS ecosystem and so has no use for that nomenclature.

 

[OverHeat]

Why are the usual PS5 warriors in this thread again, this is a benchmark for real hardware not 500$ toys.

 

[The Hamburglar]

mesh shaders and vrs are modern gpu features that don't show up in tflops metric. now we have the numbers on their impact, im glad MS waited for full rdna2

Trust you to turn this into an Xbox conversation

 

[MonarchJT]

PS5 doesn’t have the RDNA 1 GE, it’s fully programmable by devs according to Cerny which isn’t even possible on the RDNA 1 version.

You have no clue of what you’re talking about lol.

it have in fact a mix of RDNA1 and RDNA2 but according to road to ps5 is still based on old primitive shader .

 

[SenjutsuSage]

No it isn't lol, I'm willing to bet the custom implementation on PS5 is more advanced than the RDNA 1 and RDNA 2 DX12 implementation. Plus we've got multiple reliable insiders like MLiD and RGT (I would say RGT has a more solid track record though) saying RDNA 3 basically has the PS5's implementation of the Geometry Engine.

(timestamped, 25:33 - 27:51)

Nah, that's rubbish. PS5 supposedly has the RDNA3 implementation of a feature while missing major RDNA 2 features, even when they were directly asked to confirm their inclusion? Cut it out. PS5 is RDNA3 in its feature set, but then doesn't even have Mesh Shaders. Doesn't have Variable Rate Shading. This is like the time people said PS5 has VRS, but it's in the Geometry Engine, only to find out that AMD's implementation of VRS is actually in the ROPs, not in the Geometry Engine.

PS5 is missing major features that Xbox Series X|S. This has been more or less known for a while. It's why Microsoft said with such confidence Xbox Series X|S are the only consoles with full hardware support for all RDNA 2 features. PS5 is a capable piece of hardware, but is missing key features.

 

[MonarchJT]

You don't know better pal, stop talking like you are privy to information that literally noone has publicly.

The reason why MS waited is because they needed to have a generic DX implementation in order to support cross-platform development with PC. Sony on the other hand just needed compatibility with PS4 and were free to build out from there in any way they saw fit.

DirectX is an abstraction layer, it exists primarily top provide a common api and software interface to a multitude of physical devices, that's a lot of work, or at least a lot more work than Sony's guys had to put in. Similarly because its a generic interface a lot of technologies that it exposes need to be branded in order to familiarise engineers with classes of functionality. PS5 lies outside the DX/MS ecosystem and so has no use for that nomenclature.

in June 2020 still gs it's not implemented in their devkits ..they didn't waited for this. they waited RDNA2 hw. unfortunately with the software the situation is still on the high seas

 

[SenjutsuSage]

PS5 doesn’t have the RDNA 1 GE, it’s fully programmable by devs according to Cerny which isn’t even possible on the RDNA 1 version.

You have no clue of what you’re talking about lol.

Who told you the RDNA 1st gen Geometry Engine, which is also confirmed to have Primitive Shaders, isn't equal to the PS5's Primitive Shaders in terms of programmability? Sony has yet to suggest they are not in fact one and the same. It does have a far better chance of being used on PS5 than it ever did on PC, though, especially seeing as AMD decided to go with more advanced Mesh Shaders.

 

[ethomaz]

Who told you the RDNA 1st gen Geometry Engine, which is also confirmed to have Primitive Shaders, isn't equal to the PS5's Primitive Shaders in terms of programmability? Sony has yet to suggest they are not in fact one and the same. It does have a far better chance of being used on PS5 than it ever did on PC, though, especially seeing as AMD decided to go with more advanced Mesh Shaders.

You know RDNA 2 has Primitive Shaders just like RDNA1... you have 2 Primitive Unit per Shader Engine.

And Mesh Shaders do tesselation too... all the path done before is being doing with Mesh Shaders but instead to have a single step to everything with Mesh Shaders you do most of shaders operations in one step (that includes tesselation and/or primitive shaders).

Anyway Mesh Shadding is too called Primitive Shadding.

In a Mesh Shadding pipeline all the operations and fixed functions described in the pic below are simplified to one step.