• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Kaz Yamauchi about the Gran Turismo future: "4K is enough, but 240fps is the target

phil_t98

Member
Oct 10, 2014
4,564
4,693
620
If they want 8k and high frame rate then sacrifices have to be made somewhere and that probibly means cutbacks in the visuals
 

Rac3r

Member
Mar 3, 2020
153
240
340
This is worrying. This series has been heading straight to hell since GT5, and this does not give me the implication that they’re learning what’s important.

How about just focusing on making an awesome and fun racing game which actually works, like the early entries in the series, and optimize it at a locked 60 FPS?

The AI in GT Sport is the fucking worst in the business. Try to fix that before anything else, instead of wasting time on photo mode locations and weird ass trivia slide shows, and saying shit like “240 FPS”.

Yet the online racing in GT Sport is the best competitive racing experience you'll get on console. GT Sport is a separate entry within the series, with an emphasis on competitive racing. Single player content was an afterthought.

GT7 was initially supposed to come out at the end of this gen, but they patched GT Sport with a half-baked GT League Mode instead. Kaz has said that 7 and Sport started development alongside each other, and that mode was likely taken from an early GT7 build.

I'm sure GT7 will return to the PS5 with the classic single player experience, integrated Sport mode, and a hefty addition of cars/tracks.
 
Apr 6, 2015
1,580
1,265
570
I only have a 60hz tv so 120/240 means nothing to me personally.

And honestly Sport looks fine to me, I’d prefer more cars and tracks over making the graphics look nicer. Plus after playing Forza Horizon for 300 hours this gen I play with bumper cam anyway (always played in cockpit/front bumper in racing games but cockpit in the fucking hills and shit in Horizon made me dizzy) so interiors mean nothing to me.

I would love to see a return to the older games. I need that Soarer, Aristo, Stagea, Pulsar GTiR and all that good shit.

The new trailer for the RX Vision looked real good. Those FD style tail lights got me hard.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SebastianM

YCoCg

Member
Apr 25, 2020
2,244
2,926
405
I only have a 60hz tv so 120/240 means nothing to me personally.
Does your TV have BFI/Black Frame Insertion? If so then it actually CAN support 120Hz, it's just disabled, if you connect up a PC or Laptop you can add a custom resolution with 120Hz, and then try it out, there's bound to be a load of TV's out now that at least support 1080p/120Hz.
 

Ceadeus

Member
Jun 22, 2013
2,794
913
735
32
Canada, Québec
Television hertz also need to be high. I can't see any benefit from 60 to 120fps as long as my screen output 60hz max.

I don't know how many of you own a 120 or 240hz TV but I don't :/

It makes for an additional expense
 

Kuranghi

Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,817
8,541
780
240 fps lol, tellys won't have that refresh rate for 10 years at least I reckon. I guess it could apply to professional GT Sporters playing on monitors for lower input lag, I assume they do that?

I feel like Apu ranting at Skinner about his terrible novel thats a ripoff of Jurassic Park.

"WHAT WERE YOU THINKING SIR?!??"
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

Kuranghi

Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,817
8,541
780
Does your TV have BFI/Black Frame Insertion? If so then it actually CAN support 120Hz, it's just disabled, if you connect up a PC or Laptop you can add a custom resolution with 120Hz, and then try it out, there's bound to be a load of TV's out now that at least support 1080p/120Hz.

I don't think thats correct, if the TV's specs say its 60hz, how can it display 120hz? I must be missing something. Are you are thinking of 120hz panel TVs that can support 1080p or 1440p @ 120hz (sometimes unofficially)?

If hououinkyouma00 tells us what model he has - it will tell you the model number on a white or grey sticker on the back of the set, if its on the wall then go into the "about"/"system info" part of the settings pages and it should be there - then we can say for definite.
 
Last edited:
Aug 28, 2019
7,263
13,698
530
I dunno... seems like a weird priority.

Unless we are just talking options that allow for it; while your overall level of detail targets 60hz.

Nothing wrong with letting people lower detail for a higher framerate.
 
Last edited:

scalman

Member
Feb 6, 2019
2,971
2,104
415
for me buying old cars and changing old oil is the key and then racing then against AI is the thing. dev said himself that GT7 will be mix old and new , so im waiting that old part in that new GT7 there.
 

YCoCg

Member
Apr 25, 2020
2,244
2,926
405
I don't think thats correct, if the TV's specs say its 60hz, how can it display 120hz? I must be missing something. Are you are thinking of 120hz panel TVs that can support 1080p or 1440p @ 120hz (sometimes unofficially)?

If hououinkyouma00 tells us what model he has - on a white or grey sticker on the back of the set, its on the wall then go into the "about"/"system info" part of the settings pages and it should be there - we can say for definite.
A lot of panels just support "stock" standards, but have features which drive over said framerates, that's why BFI is the easiest one to gage because on TV's the panel will double the refresh rate and simply just insert a black frame every other, so if the TV supports handling BFI at 60Hz, ...it's running at 120Hz to do that (same way they run at 48Hz with BFI when displaying Blu-rau/UHD/Proper frame rate content at 24Hz). So in that case you know your TV's panel accepts the clock rates for 120Hz, which is why you can use a computer to set it as a custom resolution to bypass the stock restriction and have your TV display 1080p/120Hz.
 
Apr 6, 2015
1,580
1,265
570
Does your TV have BFI/Black Frame Insertion? If so then it actually CAN support 120Hz, it's just disabled, if you connect up a PC or Laptop you can add a custom resolution with 120Hz, and then try it out, there's bound to be a load of TV's out now that at least support 1080p/120Hz.
I’m not actually sure. I have a TCL R625.
 

Kuranghi

Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,817
8,541
780
A lot of panels just support "stock" standards, but have features which drive over said framerates, that's why BFI is the easiest one to gage because on TV's the panel will double the refresh rate and simply just insert a black frame every other, so if the TV supports handling BFI at 60Hz, ...it's running at 120Hz to do that (same way they run at 48Hz with BFI when displaying Blu-rau/UHD/Proper frame rate content at 24Hz). So in that case you know your TV's panel accepts the clock rates for 120Hz, which is why you can use a computer to set it as a custom resolution to bypass the stock restriction and have your TV display 1080p/120Hz.

Sorry to be a bother but can you link me to a TV that does that without having an 120hz panel? Every 60hz panel TV I look up on rtings/other sites does not support 1080p/1440p@120hz.
 

Kuranghi

Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,817
8,541
780
Could be talking about textures and assets like UE5 just showed.

I REALLY hope so. I will upload a video of me eating my big Varia suit shoulders if it runs at 8K@60 generally. 8K@30 maaaaaaybe in replays. Unless its literally just GT Sport with no graphical upgrades, outside of fps/res increase, then all bets are off.
 
Last edited:

Kuranghi

Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,817
8,541
780
Take a look at these websites for guides and tested panels..
Blue Busters (True 120Hz from PC to TV)
RTINGS - What is the Refresh Rate?

I checked every single 60hz set on that page and none of them suport 1080p @ 120hz. I think you are getting confused on the BFI issue mate, 60hz panels don't double the refresh rate to 120hz so it can add a black frame in between each frame. They just turn off the backlight for half a frame, hence why you see a flicker sometimes. Its the backlight flicker rate that is at 120hz, the actual number of frames the panel can display is still 60.

It say this on the second page you linked, under Black Frame Insertion.

p.s - My ZD9/Z9D backlight flickers at 720hz, the XE93/X930E did 960hz which was super cool but I've not really seen it since.


p.p.s - I'm not even sure that has anything to do with the BFI lol I'm drunk.
 
Last edited:

YCoCg

Member
Apr 25, 2020
2,244
2,926
405
I checked every single 60hz set on that page and none of them suport 1080p @ 120hz. I think you are getting confused on the BFI issue mate, 60hz panels don't double the refresh rate to 120hz so it can add a black frame in between each frame. They just turn off the backlight for half a frame, hence why you see a flicker sometimes. Its the backlight flicker rate that is at 120hz, the actual number of frames the panel can display is still 60.

It say this on the second page you linked, under Black Frame Insertion.
The RTings page just lists the TV's that have 120Hz as options without the need to "overclock" where as the blur busters page goes into more detail about such things, most TV's I've tried over the past two years from Sony at least support 120Hz since that's how they do BFI. For example, I have a SONY KDL50WF663BU in one room which is "only 60Hz" but the panel can be run at 120Hz.
 

Woodchipper

Member
May 8, 2014
1,067
492
580
Sweden
Yet the online racing in GT Sport is the best competitive racing experience you'll get on console. GT Sport is a separate entry within the series, with an emphasis on competitive racing. Single player content was an afterthought.

GT7 was initially supposed to come out at the end of this gen, but they patched GT Sport with a half-baked GT League Mode instead. Kaz has said that 7 and Sport started development alongside each other, and that mode was likely taken from an early GT7 build.

I'm sure GT7 will return to the PS5 with the classic single player experience, integrated Sport mode, and a hefty addition of cars/tracks.
Yeah, I guess, but I still feel like they’re more and more losing focus on what makes the core game good. As early as GT4 things started heading south in my opinion, with shit like photo travel, driving missions, coffee breaks and what not.

To go back on topic, we’ve barely hit 60 FPS this gen, and all of a sudden 240 FPS is the target for next gen?! Why?!
 

-Arcadia-

Banned
Aug 20, 2019
9,661
33,484
910
Not surprised to see him take this tact.

He’s always had more of an eye towards the simulation aspect of Gran Turismo, than the game part. Getting a response time that high, and a framerate that smooth, will bring GT closer to real life than ever before for the hardcore with their steering wheel/seat rigs.

For those players, and this type of game, it might be more important than 4K?
 

Kuranghi

Member
Apr 17, 2015
4,817
8,541
780
The RTings page just lists the TV's that have 120Hz as options without the need to "overclock" where as the blur busters page goes into more detail about such things, most TV's I've tried over the past two years from Sony at least support 120Hz since that's how they do BFI. For example, I have a SONY KDL50WF663BU in one room which is "only 60Hz" but the panel can be run at 120Hz.

Cool, I am familiar with the set, the biggest, last Sony 1080p I think. Maybe its because that set is 1080p rather than 4K? I was thinking of 4K sets.
 

ZywyPL

Member
Nov 27, 2018
5,027
8,521
685
Only thing I can think, as to why 250fps is mentioned, is for the eventual psvr2 add on

Yeah, makes sense with 120hz per eye. Wish they could fully itegrate VR into career mode rather than a separate castrated mode, that would be so damn sweet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: -Arcadia-

Liamario

Member
Feb 5, 2012
5,511
581
1,070
Ireland
Having recently gone from a 60hz monitor to a 144hz, I can tell you that the higher frame rate is a game changer. Together with support for VRR, games can look and play amazingly.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: -Arcadia-

SquireDalbridge

Neo Member
Jun 13, 2019
17
15
120
Believe Me who cares about Gran turisimo. After GT3 all the Gran turisimo games have been the same only cosmetical change applied to them. Still the same dumb game with Higher Polygons. Who gives a Shit that it will be 240 Frames or 4K it will
be still de dumb 10 year old game with more polygons and frames and STILL noRealistic Damage to the Cars and Still No 4 season Weather in the game realisticly. I can say to the Developers stick GT7 were the sun dont shine I am fed up with those
lazy Buck Teeths Rodents for not implimenting realtime car damage and weather .
 
Last edited:

Turk1993

Member
Jan 13, 2018
813
1,894
410
Just give us options like 1080p240hz, 1440p120hz and 4K60hz mode with all the bells and whistles, don't hold back on the graphics because of 240fps that only 10 people are gonna use on there small monitors.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Woodchipper

BusierDonkey

Member
Sep 21, 2018
3,583
9,624
595
Believe Me who cares about Gran turisimo. After GT3 all the Gran turisimo games have been the same only cosmetical change applied to them. Still the same dumb game with Higher Polygons. Who gives a Shit that it will be 240 Frames or 4K it will
be still de dumb 10 year old game with more polygons and frames and STILL noRealistic Damage to the Cars and Still No 4 season Weather in the game realisticly. I can say to the Developers stick GT7 were the sun dont shine I am fed up with those
lazy Buck Teeths Rodents for not implimenting realtime car damage and weather .

So... you aren't excited for GT7?
 
Nov 5, 2016
24,112
47,947
1,215
One Big Room, Full Of Bad Bitches
Just give us options like 1080p240hz, 1440p120hz and 4K60hz mode with all the bells and whistles, don't hold back on the graphics because of 240fps that only 10 people are gonna use on there small monitors.

I think even 1080p/240hz is a stretch. I just don’t see 240fps happening on console anytime.

Dirt 5 is, allegedly, gonna offer a 120fps option. It’s cross-gen and we don’t know if there will be resolution or other graphics settings concessions required to run that mode.

But I’m definitely a fan of options. For sure.
 
Last edited:
Apr 6, 2015
1,580
1,265
570
Believe Me who cares about Gran turisimo. After GT3 all the Gran turisimo games have been the same only cosmetical change applied to them. Still the same dumb game with Higher Polygons. Who gives a Shit that it will be 240 Frames or 4K it will
be still de dumb 10 year old game with more polygons and frames and STILL noRealistic Damage to the Cars and Still No 4 season Weather in the game realisticly. I can say to the Developers stick GT7 were the sun dont shine I am fed up with those
lazy Buck Teeths Rodents for not implimenting realtime car damage and weather .
What racing games DO you like?
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
16,365
76,415
965
35
Salalah, Oman
4K@240fps is actually needed for VR, 4K@120 per eye. That also can translate into 8K@60fps. And yes, Sony sells 8K TV's, so it makes sense for them to chase those numbers. I myself will get 8K when PS5 Pro comes, but not now.

Gran Turismo is the leading racing sim, associated with FiA, so such details matter to them. They can use all the graphics and physics budget for the cars and tracks and sacrifices elsewhere. Dirt 5 is already 4K@120fps anyway.
 
Last edited:

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
16,365
76,415
965
35
Salalah, Oman
The car models in Dirt vs in Gran Turismo are not even comparable, and there are grids of up to 20 cars in Gran Turismo. You do the math.

Well, as said before, 240fps is mostly for VR (4K@120Hz per eye), and they can use 8K@60fps out of it if they reach it. Maybe we're only 2 weeks from seeing it in action, the VR version is usually less graphically impressive than the normal TV version anyway but you need that for smooth VR gameplay.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TurboSpeed

Woodchipper

Member
May 8, 2014
1,067
492
580
Sweden
Well, as said before, 240fps is mostly for VR (4K@120Hz per eye), and they can use 8K@60fps out of it they reach it. Maybe we're only 2 weeks from seeing it in action, the VR version is usually less graphically impressive than the normal TV version anyway but you need that for smooth VR gameplay.
Fair enough, let’s wait and see I guess.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

sn0man

Member
Nov 23, 2013
1,379
906
620
God he talks such shit. So many years wasted at PD since the HD generation.

blasphemouso!!!

You know when GTSportSERemix launches with a roster of 123 newly rendered cars he’s going to talk about how important it was to ensure the models would be capable of 8 KO 241 hurtz future games and we will never have to rebuild those assets again... dur hur.



:messenger_fearful: Someone get this Dev a project manager.