Md Ray
Member
Come again? This is ND's SSS on a 1.8 TFLOP GPU. Even her retina is scattering light in addition to her ears.
Last edited:
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Insomniac: Our ray-tracing is excellent and industry leading right now on console
- Thread starter BlueXImpulse
- Start date
VFXVeteran
Banned
Right, So then you agree with my response, got it!
That was easy.
I don't agree with the automatic 'victory' that many PS owners put on ND and the other exclusive devs that make games only for Sony.
Sorry man but that's very poor looking goosebumps as if he's putting AC on full while being naked. Those textures are pretty massive and unrealistic and look as cheap and bad as fuck. Look at how more organic and natural it looks here, and small as well. This supposed-to-be-generic NPC has a much denser skin details yet not as good as Miles Morales:
Bo - wtf are you doing dude? You are changing the narrative like no tomorrow. And you are doing it because you can't talk about the details of the algorithm that I"m speaking of because you aren't a graphics programmer. Just drop it dude. We are NOT talking about the normal maps. We aren't talking about the textures. We aren't talking about any of that. We are discussing SSS - and how a proper implementation is better than the MM ear mask technique found in pretty much all consoles games.
Last edited:
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Ok Jump here, let's level you down to PS4:
Come again? This is ND's SSS on a 1.8 TFLOP GPU. Even her retina is scattering light in addition to her ears.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Come again? This is ND's SSS on a 1.8 TFLOP GPU. Even her retina is scattering light in addition to her ears.
ALL of console games running the correct SSS implementation is ALWAYS in a cinematic. That's where they can push the resources to implement the best SSS algorithm.
YOU WILL NOT FIND IT IN GAMEPLAY.
I showed actual gameplay footage of the same complexity shown here in this cinematic.
Knitted Knight
Banned
That's correct. We do know however that retooling an engine and re-crafting a rendering pipeline for on demand asset streaming of big open worlds is not easy - for anyone (including Sony's first party - and they usually sit at an advantageous position). It takes, literally, years. Which is why, in many respects, Halo: Infinite is in the state that is in, why Cyberpunk is hit with delay after delay and why it takes over 1k plus devs to pump the GTA's/Valhallas/Red Dead's of this world. Sony's first party have the luxury of developing for a single platform, and sharing knowledge across the board before anyone else even gets it (specific to the hardware). Which is why they perform way above their weight with a shorter numbers of developers.
I would be more inclined to believe otherwise considering Remedy's history, and even Control's history of its bug fest nature, and poor performance, not just on consoles, but even on PC. You can do a simple google search of the complaints. And that's for a "corridor" game, very compact even for "corridor" standards these days. If you have issues with a "corridor" game....
In other words, if you add several orders of magnitude of more moving parts I'm very inclined to believe the results wouldn't be up to par. Not even close, definitely not on their first outing - least.
No matter how it's framed Spider-man Miles Morales is a more graphically impressive game (than the examples provided) taking into consideration everything that's at play and rendered.
Moot point as you conclude yourself.
Don't agree here. You can have a side-activity in Miles Morales on a busy street where you engage with several enemy NPCs (varied, including vehicles) while the dynamic world around you is still moving, and even reacting to the "carnage". The number of variables is not comparable at all. In control everything is measured and limited to a boxed canvas. Here you fall into the dynamism trap and try to claim otherwise. It's not. But I guess you had to try... nothing lost with trying.
No. For the reason stated above. There is no encounter in Control that will be more dynamic than encounters in Spider-man on the streets. Add swinging speed to the mix (in other words, draw calls for additional assets/geometry) and the strain on that rendering pipeline is not close either.
lol I'm pretty sure your intent was very clear, as in the other thread. As in any thread. I didn't call you out on that because who cares... but at least do not insult our intelligence here. We know who's who on Gaf - and what's troll bait and what's not. Just keep it real.
I agree too. They can't beat Minecraft when it comes to Ray-tracing implementation from the lens of pure technique terminology. I don't think anyone cares either that they don't. What people care about is the overall package - as presented. It's very probable that it takes more strain on the hardware to render a single frame in Spider-man's dynamic world than in Minecraft "ideal" implementation of Ray-tracing. Not to mention that the engine used to render both is not comparable.
What Insomniac has is the most impressive looking next-gen open-world game out there when everything is considered. And it will sit at the throne until another game comes out and dethrones it.
For the time being.... the earliest you could see a contender have a title shot is in December with Cyberpunk. And that debate will definitely be lively and interesting....for the 2 games, while similar, have different strengths - specially when it comes to on demand asset streaming at considerable speed. Draw distances will come to play, speed, and dynamism of the enviroment will come to play etc etc... no bike or car covers as much ground as a couple of Spider-man swings - specially with the added boost for Miles. And the hardware that will be compared is not even close to the same, which adds insult to injury. Gotta love it.
Last edited:
Captain Hero
The Spoiler Soldier
Misunderstandings happen
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Can we please not start supporting DF Sony shill conspiracies that mirror all the BS Sony fans constantly cry about DF Xbox shill conspiracies?
Those comments are from over 5 years ago and I feel John and ALL of the people at DF are professional and put aside any personal bias to present valuable and factual information.
The Fartist
Gold Member
I don't either, don't put words in my mouth.
The Fartist
Gold Member
I'm glad we can come in here and be ok with that.
LordOfChaos
Member
Lol blueisviolet is a well known FUDster that’s been wrong so many times and so consistently that I’m not sure how they have a following at all. People really want to believe the opposing box is a lot weaker than theirs than it is, enough to believe blatant lies I guess.
LisaMariaMartin
Banned
"My favorite companies graphical effects are better than yours!"
The Fartist
Gold Member
Last edited:
GaviotaGrande
Banned
His jacket in this picture is more detailed than my real-life jacket. Absurd.Let's wait for a second and appreciate this insanely organic skin, hair, subsurface scattering on the ear, and the impressive lighting with all this extremely high polygon model of Miles Morales:
MasterCornholio
Member
Seems like it's the same thing with Dealer, Penello, TimDog, Kirby and Greenberg.
The Fartist
Gold Member
LOL, "maybe".
Imtjnotu
Member
You have not shown anything. You showed a tech demo. In terms of a game that is playable for all come this Thursday, I'll wait for you to show something we can all play that's better
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Yes, come to think of it, it's unfair to compare it to third party. I think Insomniac is using 1 asset/model only, very high polygon like 8K, and using Atom View polygon/atom streaming per frame, which leads to zero pop ins and insane amount of clarity and sharpness. Epic Games have borrowed that from their collaboration with Sony and UE5 games should look as sharp with zero pop-ins as well but that's very dependent on how fast data can be streamed from the SSD. The promise from Xbox, AMD Radeon, and especially RTX 30 series of DirectStorage of up to 14GB/s is pretty promising though, at least 4K assets. This should massively reduce game sizes, just like how ridiculously small Spiderman MM game size is and yet have extremely high poly everywhere (50GB).
Knitted Knight
Banned
Stuart360
Member
Thats the title screen demo thing though isnt it?.Let's wait for a second and appreciate this insanely organic skin, hair, subsurface scattering on the ear, and the impressive lighting with all this extremely high polygon model of Miles Morales:
GaviotaGrande
Banned
My hope is that this tech will eventually fix the pop-in problem. For me personally, it's the biggest immersion breaking thing (graphically speaking) about video games at the moment.
Md Ray
Member
Last edited:
Stuart360
Member
God what were ND thinking with that ugly numpty.That's SSS during gameplay, not cinematic. Look at her left knuckles.
MasterCornholio
Member
That's SSS during gameplay, not cinematic. Look at her left knuckles.
I know you said look at her knuckles but I can't stop staring at her arms. They are bigger than mine.
Ar¢tos
Member
His hand seems to be bigger than his head!Let's wait for a second and appreciate this insanely organic skin, hair, subsurface scattering on the ear, and the impressive lighting with all this extremely high polygon model of Miles Morales:
Polygonal_Sprite
Member
Let's wait for a second and appreciate this insanely organic skin, hair, subsurface scattering on the ear, and the impressive lighting with all this extremely high polygon model of Miles Morales:
Industry Leading.
Md Ray
Member
The Fartist
Gold Member
That's because his hand is closer to the camera. Take your hand and bring it up to your face, bottom palm to your chin, finger tips to your forehead, it's only slightly smaller than your head. Take it from me, "The Fartist".His hand seems to be bigger than his head!
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Insomniac's ray tracings have been highly impressive, gamers trust them.
Stuart360
Member
Ok, i'd hit it!
The Fartist
Gold Member
They seem chill, would totally smoke blunt with them.
Self
Member
What I mean is that I haven't seen a graphically more impressive RT game than MM. It has basically sold me on RT, whereas other games haven't. Maybe Cyberpunk will be able to match it.
I agree, at least partly (some games just don't need it). Physics engines have stagnated very much lately. I'm really thankful for remedys effort. I also think that control is a great game overall. It just can't match MM overall graphical fidelity. It doesn't take away anything from it's qualities though.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
You were sold on just reflections at 30fps but not on everything Metro and Control did, reflections included? Ok I guess
Last edited:
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Main menu, yes. But it's the same even in-game. Problem is, some here don't see it on 4K screens bit enough to appreciate the eye-melting details. Just look at this and zoom in, it looks like CGI or photography, you can't see pixelation which adds to my conclusion of usage of frame budget with single high polygon models/assets:
Yes, this might sound funny, but with sharp 4K gameplay it gets extremely bad compared to 1080p that has some blurriness that hides it slightly. At 4K it just slaps you on your face! But don't worry, I think by 2023-2024, all games using UE5 will have the massive edge, along with Sony WWS, in terms of polygons density and zero pop ins while enjoying small game sizes. That's unless Sony licenses the tech to 3rd party engines that don't use UE5 as it must be patented by Atom View (patents usually can remain exclusive for 12 years before you can use them under some percentage to the owner of the original tech, as I remember).
His hand seems to be bigger than his head!
That's camera effect, the closer you get to the camera, the bigger it looks like. His hand is closer to the camera.
THEAP99
Banned
that screengrab looks fucking unreal!Main menu, yes. But it's the same even in-game. Problem is, some here don't see it on 4K screens bit enough to appreciate the eye-melting details. Just look at this and zoom in, it looks like CGI or photography, you can't see pixelation which adds to my conclusion of usage of frame budget with single high polygon models/assets:
Yes, this might sound funny, but with sharp 4K gameplay it gets extremely bad compared to 1080p that has some blurriness that hides it slightly. At 4K it just slaps you on your face! But don't worry, I think by 2023-2024, all games using UE5 will have the massive edge, along with Sony WWS, in terms of polygons density and zero pop ins while enjoying small game sizes. That's unless Sony licenses the tech to 3rd party engines that don't use UE5 as it must be patented by Atom View (patents usually can remain exclusive for 12 years before you can use them under some percentage to the owner of the original tech, as I remember).
That's camera effect, the closer you get to the camera, the bigger it looks like. His hand is closer to the camera.
Self
Member
No, control RT just doesn't vibe with me. I think controls simple geometry and lack of overall detail turned me of. Metro had some cool lightning, but I saw some footage of Battlefield which looked somehow more impressive.
But the insane amount of detail within the world of MM combined with the super real looking reflections seen on the large building of MM (vertigo scene) immediately struck me as impressive. Surely MM has a inherent advantage of a more suitable gameworld to present the RT features.
Last edited:
Bo_Hazem
Banned
GaviotaGrande
You like textures, look at these nasty textures in Jack Frag's video!Watch the whole thing
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Battlefield has only Reflections too. You are not impressed by RT than. You are impressed by the overall art direction.
Self
Member
No, Control's art direction in superb and represents it's world quite perfectly.
I would say by the way RT is used and implemented within the existing game engine. But yes, art direction can play a huge part.
Control's RT is technically more advanced, I can see that, but it just doesn't impress when a simple and barren world gets ray-traced. Regarding Metro I can say that it looked quite good without RT, whereas MM doesn't vibe for me without RT. It really hits my buttons.
Last edited:
Md Ray
Member
Main menu, yes. But it's the same even in-game. Problem is, some here don't see it on 4K screens bit enough to appreciate the eye-melting details. Just look at this and zoom in, it looks like CGI or photography, you can't see pixelation which adds to my conclusion of usage of frame budget with single high polygon models/assets:
Those ground textures look insane.
Definitely looks like CGI.
PaintTinJr
Member
But at 18:18 are we really seeing it in gameplay? From what I can see the entire implementation is fenced in, with a nice lense fx to blend between very localised SSS, and then more of a Rage type graphics from the rest of the engine.
And because the fx is confined, and the entire section on rails, the local SSS could just as easily be a pre-calculated interactive video layer using Criware pre-depth/zbuffer tech(IIRC) - the stuff they use in Virtua Fighter 5 in engine rendering cinematics.
The scene looks good, but it is easy to see the edges of the layers of the tech. Might be easy to decompose on MM also, but I haven't seen it as an issue on my small laptop screen, but might on my 65" TV when I try it after PS5 UK release.
Last edited:
Thirty7ven
Banned
See the thing is that it’s not you who determines who or what is industry leading.
RGB'D
Member
Your rtx3080 might have you changing your mind. Art direction is subjective. MM looks great but I also wouldn't want Control to change their direction either. Both games look great but I wouldnt personally put MM ahead of Control. They are vastly different aesthetics. RT isn't even a conversation over which is more impressive though as Control blows it away. When you get your RTX card, load it up with DLSS and enjoy.
Hudo
Member
Why?
GaviotaGrande
Banned
Watch the whole thing
Pretty fly for an in-game model.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Because there needs to be wide consensus for something to be industry leading.
Industry leading doesn’t mean you have to like it.