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Buggy Loop
Member
Hmm
Might be, the 2022 patches to DX12 and RT have just exploded VRAM but i think the screenshot above are from release for RE3. Might see the same behavior as RE4 RT maybe. DF bashed the patch on release, Capcom even made the dx11 version available because of all the complaints.
Try to disable shadow cache if not done already, i read its an outlier for problems. Also keep in mind that texture high (2-3-4-5-6-7-8 GB) are basically the same quality texture but at different LOD pop-in. You might find comfortable values way under max.
But yea, fucking sad state of affairs when there's so many problems with ports.
DF ripped them
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
well obviously.
It all runs great washout RT.
RT at 4k exploded vram usage in this game
Because you aren't looking at the trend of power and price over time. The 1080ti the most powerful card at the time launched for 699$. Just because 6yrs later a low mid range 4070 launched at "x3 the power" (it's not really) at 599$ doesnt mean it can't be overpriced. By that logic the Cray 1 cost $30M, doesn’t mean a prebuilt PC today that's 1000x more powerfull isn't overpriced at $5,000. Technology drops in price so even x3 can still be overpriced 6yrs later.
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Hot5pur
Member
Yep agreed.
Raw 4k + RTX and good luck with a 3080.
But 4k + DLSS easy pz
4k + DLSS + RTX, still fairly safe on almost everything, but if anything you may get slowdown because of RTX itself (not necessarily due to memory limits)
It's very obvious when something is a memory issue because it just becomes stutter city.
Point is for 4k + 60 FPS, as long as games have DLSS or FSR, I'm fairly confident there is absolutely no need to upgrade to the 40xx series and just let Nvidia and AMD feel the drop in demand and get more competitive with eachother (if it ever happens).
For native 4k+RTX+ultramax textures and high FPS, yeah you need the 40xx series, but probably the 4080 and 4090 as the 4070ti and below look like kinda meh cards and just pricey
Edit: I also find I turn RTX off most of the time these days, barely see the benefit and just eats up frames. Notable exceptions were Cyberpunk and Dying Light 2 (haven't played but watched the difference and it's substantial)
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
//DEVIL//
Member
Does inflation works on mid range cards only ?Seems like quite a few people in this thread pretend that inflation doesn't exist
Because as far as I know the 4090 is about the same price as 3090 from 2 years and half ago ( it was MSRP 1500$ but in reality the cheapest was 1600$) because FE was no where to be found outside of the first initial release.
Yet you can buy a 4090 for 1600$. So inflation seems to work only where you want to defend a company I guess right ? Lol
No. Those prices are just a greed from Nvidia. Period. And while I am part of the problem as I own a 4090. I think the 4080 is a scam. And the 4070ti with it.
4070$ at 600$ ? Not so bad to be honest if it's little bit more powerful than the 3080 with more vram and frame generation sure. That's 100$ cheaper than the 10G version and 200$ cheaper than 3080 12 gigs.
Yeah that is a good price for the card. Would have been perfect at 500$
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DaGwaphics
Member
The 3080 was $699 and in the states the 4080/4070ti are available at MSRP basically any given day of the week.
ASUS TUF RTX 4070 Ti Graphics Card with 12GB DDR6 | Newegg.com - Newegg.com
Buy ASUS TUF Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Gaming Graphics Card (PCIe 4.0, 12GB GDDR6X, HDMI 2.1a, DisplayPort 1.4a) TUF-RTX4070TI-12G-GAMING with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
ASUS TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 4080 Gaming Graphics Card (PCIe 4.0, 16GB GDDR6X, HDMI 2.1a, DisplayPort 1.4a) TUF-RTX4080-16G-GAMING - Newegg.com
Buy ASUS TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 4080 Gaming Graphics Card (PCIe 4.0, 16GB GDDR6X, HDMI 2.1a, DisplayPort 1.4a) TUF-RTX4080-16G-GAMING with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
But certainly it isn't ideal, obviously $499 would have been better. $599 still better than I expected though.
The technology has changed a bit but as long as the end result is still moving forward it is hard to compare the particulars. There are 512bit cards realesed more than a decade ago that get outperformed by the 64bit RX6500, it happens.
I'd like to see more advancement as much as the next guy, but not something I see happening this generation.
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
We all know you ain't gonna switch.
Which makes it even worse because no one is taking the sacrifice.
DaGwaphics
Member
//DEVIL//
Member
What kind of math is this ?
Or are you comparing super to Ti ? ( Even if that's the case not double but close/ I can understand where u coming from
Hot5pur
Member
Nvidia keep doing this (price inflation games) every generation. The 3090 was overpriced for gaming, so not sure it's the best reference point.
The 3080 being on the same chip was a fairly good bargain if you could get it at MSRP.
With this gen the 4090 is actually excellent value given what else is available. But again, it's all part of a game to make people more comfortable paying over $1000 for a GPU.
Inflation for sure plays some role in these prices but it's not uniform across the board.
Maybe Nvidia realized that they can't compete with consoles for the budget segment and they think there is enough market in the PC enthusiast space to jack everything up.
If Sony / MS release a console refresh I may consider that over a GPU upgrade with how things are going.
These may sound like first world problems, but PC gaming is becoming more difficult for a lot of people. I imagine especially in some world regions where PC is more economical than consoles by a fair margin, especially with long term costs.
If "budget" GPUs are going to be pushed into the $300-400 range that's going to make people question in entire investment.
For people who have the money, $1600 for a GPU that's going to last you a few years and give you enjoyment of your favorite hobby, there's worse things you could do. For me I won't do it on principle, as I believe consumers can have a say in this game Nvidia and AMD are playing.
But then again people pay >$1000 for the same iphone each year despite cheaper alternatives with analogous or better performance/features (Pixel 7 pro as a good example), so consumers just gonna consume I guess.
Buggy Loop
Member
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
This is what’s mystifying. The goal is wide open for the taking, and it’s like they’re waiting to react to what Nvidia does.
I’ve switched over to AMD, but I fully expect to be buying Intel in the future. Hope they keep on the path that they’ve been on.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Consoles make you pay over the course of ownership with online fees, and zero digital store competition.
And the game variety isn’t even close.
Leonidas
Member
3090 was overpriced and a bad buy for gamers when it launched and ended up making the 4090 seem like a good deal.
It's not cheap, but it's not terrible. And it's inline with inflation. The $500 GPU of 2017/2018 is today's $600 GPU.
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asdasdasdbb
Member
The 7900 XT is selling so bad that I think the rest of the desktop lineup has been cancelled.
Buggy Loop
Member
AMD so far
They probably know they can't undercut Nvidia anyway so might as well play the game and get margin out of this already low margin business.
They undercut, Nvidia undercuts... AMD undercuts again? Just how deep are the pockets for a market where they have ~5% ?
They also have Intel breathing down their neck who has the same market share in GPU but also competes CPU.
It's a tight rope for AMD i tell ya that.
AMD knows the bread and butter are enterprises and consoles. For Nvidia it's enterprise/science/AI. Nobody really cares for selling an halo product to <1% gamers. Why make any waves for that? To have a dozen peoples online cream their pants that team red owned team green? There's barely any money in that.
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
It’s a great card, but they shot themselves in the foot with the stupid $900 msrp. Hardware Unboxed even said had it launched at $800, reviews would’ve been different.
You pretty much get one shot to make a good impression, and if you fuck that up, than your SOL.
hinch7
Member
Its better than expected because of the nonsense pricing this generation. Everything including the 4090 is overpriced, but at least that has the specs and performance to back it up and it is a top of the line, halo SKU.The 3080 was $699 and in the states the 4080/4070ti are available at MSRP basically any given day of the week.
ASUS TUF RTX 4070 Ti Graphics Card with 12GB DDR6 | Newegg.com - Newegg.com
Buy ASUS TUF Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Gaming Graphics Card (PCIe 4.0, 12GB GDDR6X, HDMI 2.1a, DisplayPort 1.4a) TUF-RTX4070TI-12G-GAMING with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!www.newegg.com
ASUS TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 4080 Gaming Graphics Card (PCIe 4.0, 16GB GDDR6X, HDMI 2.1a, DisplayPort 1.4a) TUF-RTX4080-16G-GAMING - Newegg.com
Buy ASUS TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 4080 Gaming Graphics Card (PCIe 4.0, 16GB GDDR6X, HDMI 2.1a, DisplayPort 1.4a) TUF-RTX4080-16G-GAMING with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
But certainly it isn't ideal, obviously $499 would have been better. $599 still better than I expected though.
The technology has changed a bit but as long as the end result is still moving forward it is hard to compare the particulars. There are 512bit cards realesed more than a decade ago that get outperformed by the 64bit RX6500, it happens.
I'd like to see more advancement as much as the next guy, but not something I see happening this generation.
Everything else is frankly outrageous considering what they are. This should've been $500 max, considering how small that die is but hey.. its 2023 Nvidia.
Its not even particulars. Its a two generation node jump and we're getting what 30% more performance and paying $100 premium for it years later. This line would've been 4060Ti and priced accordinly if the mining boom and pandemic didn't send GPU prices out of wack.
Senua
Member
//DEVIL//
Member
It didn't matter if it was a bad buy or not. That is subjective to what it was used for. For gaming only ? Yeah. But for video production and vmix and premiere like I used it for ? ( Plus gaming ) No it wasn't .
The point is the 3090 to 4090 there is no inflation in price. Yet people claim the inflation is the reason we have a 4080 for 1200$. No it's not. It's Nvidia greed
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Senua
Member
The 4080 is absolutely indefensible, I've seen hardcore Jensen dick suckers even tap out on that one.
Skifi28
Member
I can confirm. Love the guy and his leather penis, but I'm not being paid enough to defend that shit.
Spyxos
Member
According to the leaks, they have driver problems. I think that's why the smaller cards have been delayed.
asdasdasdbb
Member
That's kind of the problem, AMD wanted the 7900 XT to be able to sell at $899.
It's not really selling at $799 either. People only buy AMD when the prices are low enough that their margins are zero.
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PeteBull
Member
Low vram is to ensure clients gonna want/need/be forced to upgrade card to new one in max 2 generations, some will even do it in one generation but just look at 3080 10gigs vram, once the rtx 5k series hits every owner gonna want new gpu unless they downgrade themselfs to playing new demanding games in 1080p, and if u were rtx 3080 owner ofc u were playing at least in 1440p.
I say it as 3080ti owner, so 12gigs of vram card, but i play in 4k(coz of monitor), i can somewhat mitigate performance by dlss and overall lowering many settings, but i really dont wanna lower texture quality, in 4k its very visible, and i bet in future games its gonna be visible even more/ even more games will require over 12gigs of vram for 4k, especially with rt, so if i want or not i will have to upgrade to nvidias or amds card of next gen( so 5k series from nvidia or rdna4 gpu family from amd),
Leonidas
Member
There was a $100 increase for 4090. $200 would have been more in line with inflation. Nvidia priced it this way to get people like you to buy it, and it worked.
Who said 4080 is okay at $1200? It seems priced that way to upsell to 4090s. It's still arguably better value than what AMD is offering since with Nvidia you get better features and better RT. 4080 is also better perf/dollar than 4090, but that's also not saying much...
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DaGwaphics
Member
Buyers are just going to have to adjust to the fact that while nodes are still shrinking at a good pace, cost per transistor is not. In the past a node jump typically meant that cost per transistor was halved or even more, that is no longer the case with cost per transistor seeing only marginal decreases when moving between nodes (in some cases actually getting more expensive). This erases the idea that after a node jump you get a GPU with twice the transistors, improvements will be primarily based on what the manufacturers do with the transistors now. A good architecture will be more important than ever.
TSMC's New 3nm Chip Wafers Priced at $20,000 - SiliconExpert
TSMC released pricing for their latest and smallest chip node technology at a 25% price hike over their current 5nm wafer. The new wafers with 3nm node technology will be priced at $20,000 apiece. This news comes as a surprise as Samsung already announced partnerships...
www.siliconexpert.com
As you can see there, 3nm is barely cheaper per transistor than 5nm. And due to yields it might even be a bit more expensive at first depending on what numbers they are getting out of the gate.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
600 is the msrp without tax... that makes it automatic 700 in EU... or more for 3rd party
"3.6 Roentgen? Not great, not terrible"
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Didn't say it wasn't a factor at all, where as you stated the current power is irrelevant, which is wrong. And no technology doesn't always drop in price. Like one of the other posters stated, yields could play a part. So could commodity pricing and shipping.
Leonidas
Member
According to idiots on the internet, sure.
Schmendrick
Member
So how does Jensen's cock taste?
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
I agree with this generally, but aren't we talking about 10FL vs 30TL here plus DLSS 3.0? So kind of a huge jump up.
Maybe if they launch a pro model next year......
//DEVIL//
Member
While this is true, in reality though. You don't see the performance difference that 10 vs 30 tf suggest it would. Mainly due to PC bot being optimized same way as consoles ( hopefully to get it fixed with the new direct x 12 update that unified the vram usage. ) But as it stand right now , 10 vs 30 gives you the idea it's 3x more performance when it's barely 1.5 .
Not to mention other costs of PC as it's not just a video card.
PC has its advantages. It's not even same league. But consoles costs dirt compared to PC
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
I'm a big console person even though I have a "decent" PC with a 3060 that I hardly ever use for gaming, so your preaching to the choir here lol. While I realize the 10 vs 30 isn't exactly that, I think you are over minimizing a bit the huge gains DLSS has. That said, despite the gap, the problem isn't just the games and the closed architecture vs the open platform, it's more complex in that games are build to be scalable and it's not really pushing the PC. Yes you can go up in frame rate and perhaps a bit in resolution, but what is really getting you? I know I'm arguing with myself here at this point.
Navi 32 is intended to compete with AD104 (4070 Ti/4070), and should do fine from a margins perspective. It just apparently isn't ready yet.AMD so far
They probably know they can't undercut Nvidia anyway so might as well play the game and get margin out of this already low margin business.
They undercut, Nvidia undercuts... AMD undercuts again? Just how deep are the pockets for a market where they have ~5% ?
They also have Intel breathing down their neck who has the same market share in GPU but also competes CPU.
It's a tight rope for AMD i tell ya that.
AMD knows the bread and butter are enterprises and consoles. For Nvidia it's enterprise/science/AI. Nobody really cares for selling an halo product to <1% gamers. Why make any waves for that? To have a dozen peoples online cream their pants that team red owned team green? There's barely any money in that.
VAVA Mk2
Member
4070 is supposed to be 200 W TDP so 1000 W PSU is overkill more than likely.
Crayon
Member
//DEVIL//
Member
But your 3060 is the problem. That video card barely gets the same result as ps5 or Xbox. If that's the card I have, I will be playing on a console fuck PC.
Me, I don't like optimizing. If I am not going to get the absolute best, then why to waste money to get some graphics that look like a 400$ ps5 digital would do or close to it ( which is what the 3060 is, I honestly think the ps5 is even much better than a 3060 due to hardware optimization vs PC )
Dlss is an upscaling factor. Consoles have the same in the form of FSR 2.0 or whatever. May not look as good but then again in the heat of gameplay, who really pauses the game in call of duty and talk to himself look at that pixel is not clear god damn it !! )
To me gaming PC is about having a clear edge over consoles. That's why I get a high-end card. ( It's not ideal, it's not logical or makes financial logic whatsoever ) but if we can afford it, why not. A 3060 is not that ( with all respect, I would rather play on my ps5 )
Hell at 4k it seems the 3080 is not enough these days.
If I didn't have like 500+ games between steam and epic store, I would probably never bother with PC gaming. But when you have so much library, you're kinda stuck.)
That and I also don't want to give MS or Sony money to play online. They can fuck off with that practice. I would rather pay triple the money just to make a point. Pay-to-play online needs to die. It's a scam ( that and paying to get an upgrades graphics version of an X game. what a shady practice while PC users 15 years from now will still get the better-looking version of said game. if not from the devs, from the community ).
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Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
The 3070 was $500 MSRP before crypto wrecked prices.
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
The 4080 is $500 more expensive than the 3080.
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
It has more VRAM, less power usage, supports DLSS3 and costs less. The 3080 will be outclassed by this card.