• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Will we ever see an Abrahamic God of War?

TheGrat1

Member
Torture is a tenant of atheistic regimes. What I got from the comment I replied to was the rhetoric that Christianity is guilty of it when that's the kettle calling the pot black.
What? The People's Republic of China has authoritarianism as its core tenant. Atheism is tangential at best.
Compare and contrast with middle age-industrial revolution European Kingdoms, many of them subservient to the Pope, who were willing to fight wars just to make a sure someone of the right religious denomination was on the throne of another country or only allowing political marriages if potential partners converted from paganism. They were also waging the Crusades. Those states regularly and officially discriminated against Jews, Muslims, atheists, and even recent converts and heretics. Even then I would put this downs to the moral shortcomings of the monarchs and their societies as a whole than a tenant of religion itself.

The CCP actually officially recognizes a few religions and allows people to practice them. They even use its influence to benefit themselves (the New Dalai Lama). From what I understand they persecute the Uighurs not because they are Muslim but primarily because they are not Chinese (not ethnically) enough. Their culture is too independent of Beijing's influence and they seek to snuff that out. If they were atheists they would still do the same thing. Does not make it any less evil but it is important to know the motivations behind it.

TL;DR Communism advocates atheism but the regimes that follow it rarely follow through. China is a regime that pays lip service to atheism, not an atheistic regime.
 

Soodanim

Member
False. Atheism is defined as the belief there is/are no God/gods. It is defined as the antithesis of theism. Therefore it is a belief.
False. The prefix “a-“ means “without”. Without theism. A lack of belief isn’t a belief. Babies are born atheist, and by your definition they would be born with a belief. I explained it a few posts prior to yours, and I’ve quoted it below to save you the effort of having to find it:
Gnostic theism is claiming knowledge of god(s)
Agnostic theism is belief without claiming absolute knowledge (most religious people)
Agnostic atheism is a lack of belief without claiming absolute knowledge (most atheists)
Gnostic atheism is claiming absolute knowledge that there isn’t anything.

Agnostic atheism requires no proof, because it is simply the non-acceptance of claims of deities. Gnostic atheism requires extraordinary proof, because it is an extraordinary claim. It would require observation of all that ever is and was. You basically need the source code to the universe to say without a doubt that there are absolutely without a doubt no deities anywhere.
To put it differently, if theism is 1, then atheism isn’t -1 but instead simply 0.
 

kurisu_1974

is on perm warning for being a low level troll
So I guess the torture carried out by the CCP is ok?





False. Atheism is defined as the belief there is/are no God/gods. It is defined as the antithesis of theism. Therefore it is a belief.

Wrong, atheism is nothing but the lack of belief. What you are describing is antitheism or maybe gnostic atheism, but not mainstream atheism.
 

jigglet

Banned
No the window has closed.

Pre-90's: the religious right was too powerful.
90's to mid 2000's: comedies like The Simpsons could openly mock religion and it was broadly embraced. I think for this 15 year span you could have done pretty much anything you wanted, freedom of speech was at its height in the western world IMO.
Now: The far left will now step in to defend anything, including those that don't need / want defending. I'm a minorty, and I cannot fucking stand it when an SJW white knight stands up for me, like they're doing me a favor. They have no fucking idea what they're even defending.
 
Last edited:
What? The People's Republic of China has authoritarianism as its core tenant. Atheism is tangential at best.
Compare and contrast with middle age-industrial revolution European Kingdoms, many of them subservient to the Pope, who were willing to fight wars just to make a sure someone of the right religious denomination was on the throne of another country or only allowing political marriages if potential partners converted from paganism. They were also waging the Crusades. Those states regularly and officially discriminated against Jews, Muslims, atheists, and even recent converts and heretics. Even then I would put this downs to the moral shortcomings of the monarchs and their societies as a whole than a tenant of religion itself.

The CCP actually officially recognizes a few religions and allows people to practice them. They even use its influence to benefit themselves (the New Dalai Lama). From what I understand they persecute the Uighurs not because they are Muslim but primarily because they are not Chinese (not ethnically) enough. Their culture is too independent of Beijing's influence and they seek to snuff that out. If they were atheists they would still do the same thing. Does not make it any less evil but it is important to know the motivations behind it.

TL;DR Communism advocates atheism but the regimes that follow it rarely follow through. China is a regime that pays lip service to atheism, not an atheistic regime.

How is the CCP playing lip service? What evidence is there that the atheism openly expressed and brutally enforced by the CCP for 100 years isn’t based on an actual belief? Do they more openly embrace authoritarianism?

Wrong, atheism is nothing but the lack of belief. What you are describing is antitheism or maybe gnostic atheism, but not mainstream atheism.
Being mainstream is not a good proof of anything.
False. The prefix “a-“ means “without”. Without theism. A lack of belief isn’t a belief. Babies are born atheist, and by your definition they would be born with a belief. I explained it a few posts prior to yours, and I’ve quoted it below to save you the effort of having to find it:

To put it differently, if theism is 1, then atheism isn’t -1 but instead simply 0.

The without (a-) negates the object - God (theo), not the belief (ism).
In agnosticism for example the (a-) negates the knowledge, not the belief.

From a free scholarly online article that comes to the same conclusion.

1. Definitions of “Atheism”


“Atheism” is typically defined in terms of “theism”. Theism, in turn, is best understood as a proposition—something that is either true or false. It is often defined as “the belief that God exists”, but here “belief” means “something believed”. It refers to the propositional content of belief, not to the attitude or psychological state of believing. This is why it makes sense to say that theism is true or false and to argue for or against theism. If, however, “atheism” is defined in terms of theism and theism is the proposition that God exists and not the psychological condition of believing that there is a God, then it follows that atheism is not the absence of the psychological condition of believing that God exists (more on this below). The “a-” in “atheism” must be understood as negation instead of absence, as “not” instead of “without”. Therefore, in philosophy at least, atheism should be construed as the proposition that God does not exist (or, more broadly, the proposition that there are no gods).
 
Last edited:

Buki1

Member
People who say its impossible forgot that this game existed:

z7527261O.jpg


This was literally abrahamic "God Of War".
 

niilokin

Member
I know ancient greek and norse people imagined their gods to look like people, which is true in God of war games, but arent the original godly hebrew beings like weird ass nebulae insectoid amoeba sperm cell virus protein rna chain shub niggurath looking motherfuckers? or something. then you get the christian demons that look like toad or cat with winston churchill face.
 
Last edited:

kurisu_1974

is on perm warning for being a low level troll
How is the CCP playing lip service? What evidence is there that the atheism openly expressed and brutally enforced by the CCP for 100 years isn’t based on an actual belief? Do they more openly embrace authoritarianism?


Being mainstream is not a good proof of anything.


The without (a-) negates the object - God (theo), not the belief (ism).
In agnosticism for example the (a-) negates the knowledge, not the belief.

From a free scholarly online article that comes to the same conclusion.

The CCP doesn't do the thing they do because of their athesim.

With "being mainstream" i mean that agnostic atheism is the most common form of atheism. I wasn't "trying to prove" anything.

Atheism / theism is about belief; gnosticism / agnosticism is about knowledge. The other poster explained it correctly. Atheism just means there is no belief in god / gods, that article you quoted gets it wrong (imo) or described gnostic atheism (which, as I tried to explain earlier, is quite fringe afaik).
 
Last edited:

FireFly

Member
How is the CCP playing lip service? What evidence is there that the atheism openly expressed and brutally enforced by the CCP for 100 years isn’t based on an actual belief? Do they more openly embrace authoritarianism?


Being mainstream is not a good proof of anything.


The without (a-) negates the object - God (theo), not the belief (ism).
In agnosticism for example the (a-) negates the knowledge, not the belief.

From a free scholarly online article that comes to the same conclusion.
Even if theism is purely a "proposition" as the article suggests, you still need the implicit claim that the (a-) prefix purely "negates", which doesn't seem to be true based on other words with that prefix, such as amoral, asexual etc.

"prefix meaning "not, without," from Greek a-, an- "not" (the "alpha privative"), from PIE root *ne- "not" (source also of English un-)"

As I said before, the ambiguity is best resolved by distinguishing between strong atheism (which consists in a "negation" of the propositional content of theism) and weak atheism (which does not). Even if you are right, all that follows is that weak atheists have been using the "wrong" word to describe themselves and need to go find another word. Semantic arguments are about intelligibility, not about the content of logical claims themselves. If I express my beliefs in Chinese but use the wrong kanji, because I am still learning, it hardly follows that those beliefs are somehow "invalid".
 
Last edited:

Soodanim

Member
The without (a-) negates the object - God (theo), not the belief (ism).
In agnosticism for example the (a-) negates the knowledge, not the belief.

From a free scholarly online article that comes to the same conclusion.
As your quote says, “In philosophy”. It’s a bubble that ignores the history of changing understanding of the word over the years. In its original Greek context it would have followed that, and I’m a fan of etymology so I get it. But a couple thousand years of added context leaves us needing to clarify, hence the four way split of (a)gnostic (a)theism or others (weak/strong atheism, etc).

In the original context, the gods were the baseline that you either accepted or rejected. It wasn’t a case of belief, you were without the gods that were accepted. Now that’s not the case, but we still have the binary sort for the most part because of the history of language and religion being mandatory for so long. When you either do or don’t, the don’t encompasses all that don’t - regardless of their reason.

I prefer nontheism as a term to unambiguously describe the absence of belief as it describes living without the concept entirely (as I do for every other made up thing out there), but there’s a certain irony in that not being a common term.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Today’s trailer and subsequent revelation this would be the end of the Norse installments got me wondering where things go next. Is it too far fetched for them to dabble in Abrahamic mythology? Can you imagine that shit? Kratos whooping up on Jesus or Mohammed?
No, no way no how… unless by a small indie studio willing to brave a potentially very angry mob.
 
Even if theism is purely a "proposition" as the article suggests, you still need the implicit claim that the (a-) prefix purely "negates", which doesn't seem to be true based on other words with that prefix, such as amoral, asexual etc.

"prefix meaning "not, without," from Greek a-, an- "not" (the "alpha privative"), from PIE root *ne- "not" (source also of English un-)"

As I said before, the ambiguity is best resolved by distinguishing between strong atheism (which consists in a "negation" of the propositional content of theism) and weak atheism (which does not). Even if you are right, all that follows is that weak atheists have been using the "wrong" word to describe themselves and need to go find another word. Semantic arguments are about intelligibility, not about the content of logical claims themselves. If I express my beliefs in Chinese but use the wrong kanji, because I am still learning, it hardly follows that those beliefs are somehow "invalid".

(a-) alpha primitive does negate though. As in the word "not" or "no". The etymology allows for atheism to equal 'no god - belief system'. Going further, the most important definition of a term is of course from its historical usage. There was never a branding of so called "innocents" as atheists. It was only applied to claimants. Trying to define it in such a way as to include a bag of rocks as an 'atheist' is why philosophy steers clear of that non binary usage. I am reacting not to the ambiguity of the word but to those who claim as a matter of fact that atheism is NOT what it has historically been. This claim carries the burden of proof and its tough to prove the OG meaning is invalid when it is sound both in etymology and early usage.

The CCP doesn't do the thing they do because of their athesim.

With "being mainstream" i mean that agnostic atheism is the most common form of atheism. I wasn't "trying to prove" anything.

Atheism / theism is about belief; gnosticism / agnosticism is about knowledge. The other poster explained it correctly. Atheism just means there is no belief in god / gods, that article you quoted gets it wrong (imo) or described gnostic atheism (which, as I tried to explain earlier, is quite fringe afaik).

How do you support that claim about the CCP's motives and beliefs?

Being a common claim does not prove a definition. Thats what I'm getting at. Atheism/theism are beliefs. The ism makes no sense with a lack of belief ie 'innocents'. Agnosticism does make senes as the knowledge is being negated. I fully accept someones claims about what weak atheism or agnostic atheism is but I do not accept a rebranding of what atheism itself is by those who wish to alter it. The earliest word for this type of lack of belief is agnosticism and that would be the clear claim to make regarding belief in God.

As your quote says, “In philosophy”. It’s a bubble that ignores the history of changing understanding of the word over the years. In its original Greek context it would have followed that, and I’m a fan of etymology so I get it. But a couple thousand years of added context leaves us needing to clarify, hence the four way split of (a)gnostic (a)theism or others (weak/strong atheism, etc).

Philosophy represents a more systematic approach. Certainly more credible than popularizers. As soon as you enter the realm of debate you are in fact entering into philosophy and hopefully sound philosophy. History is also against those who describe atheism as a lack of belief as it was never used that way in history. A fraction of the populace cannot change the definition either.
 
Last edited:

Vaelka

Member
No the window has closed.

Pre-90's: the religious right was too powerful.
90's to mid 2000's: comedies like The Simpsons could openly mock religion and it was broadly embraced. I think for this 15 year span you could have done pretty much anything you wanted, freedom of speech was at its height in the western world IMO.
Now: The far left will now step in to defend anything, including those that don't need / want defending. I'm a minorty, and I cannot fucking stand it when an SJW white knight stands up for me, like they're doing me a favor. They have no fucking idea what they're even defending.

There has been a fuck ton of outrage about Simpsons and South Park mocking Christianity too...
If GoW was centered around it and Kratos beat up Jesus people would have a mental breakdown about it and there would be this huge narrative about how it's a SJW agenda against Christians.
 

jigglet

Banned
There has been a fuck ton of outrage about Simpsons and South Park mocking Christianity too...
If GoW was centered around it and Kratos beat up Jesus people would have a mental breakdown about it and there would be this huge narrative about how it's a SJW agenda against Christians.

Outrage is one thing, being cancelled is another.

Yes the Simpsons and similarly progressive media provoked outrage at the time, but people were not cancelled, sent to jail, had their lives destroyed over it. I think that's the biggest difference between that era and now.

Outrage is great. It's a dissenting opinion - it's people exercising their freedom of speech. That's a healthy thing. What we have today is far, far from healthy.
 
Last edited:

Vaelka

Member
Outrage is one thing, being cancelled is another.

Yes the Simpsons and similarly progressive media provoked outrage at the time, but people were not cancelled, sent to jail, had their lives destroyed over it. I think that's the biggest difference between that era and now.

Outrage is great. It's a dissenting opinion - it's people exercising their freedom of speech. That's a healthy thing. What we have today is far, far from healthy.

People did '' cancel '' Simpsons, it just wasn't as effective because the internet wasn't as big.
Conservatives also cancelled married with children because of '' dirty words '' and the style of comedy, they actually got it thrown off air as far as I remember for a while before it came back. This has been happening since forever it just used to happen by angry moms calling into the tv station.
There was a religious group that almost got Steam to ban erotic games too.

Kratos beating up Jesus is not going to happen because quite frankly I think Sony would probably shut it down before it happened, it'd be a PR nightmare.
No one would be sent to jail tho now you're really reaching.
 

FireFly

Member
(a-) alpha primitive does negate though. As in the word "not" or "no". The etymology allows for atheism to equal 'no god - belief system'. Going further, the most important definition of a term is of course from its historical usage. There was never a branding of so called "innocents" as atheists. It was only applied to claimants. Trying to define it in such a way as to include a bag of rocks as an 'atheist' is why philosophy steers clear of that non binary usage. I am reacting not to the ambiguity of the word but to those who claim as a matter of fact that atheism is NOT what it has historically been. This claim carries the burden of proof and its tough to prove the OG meaning is invalid when it is sound both in etymology and early usage.
The claim is not that it doesn't negate. But that it doesn't solely negate. If you disagree with this, then you would be committed to the claim that an immoral person is the same as an amoral person.

The point of including both senses of atheism is not to be able to talk about rocks, babies or "innocents". The point is to distinguish between those that believe that the idea of a god doesn't make sense on a conceptual level and so cannot exist, and those that believe that God could exist, but don't currently believe in God, for a variety of reasons. The content of those reasons is what determines the type of athesist someone is. (Just like the type of theist someone is, is determined by the number and form of the of god(s) they believe in) For example there are many people that haven't really thought deeply on the matter of whether God exists. These people clearly don't believe in God, so merit the term atheist, but may seek others to convince them one way or the other (a weak atheist but non-agnostic). Equally someone may have extensively examined the available "evidence", and while not opposed to the existence of God, believe that this existence cannot be proven from that evidence (weak atheist agnostic). Both of these positions are distinct from the "hard atheist" line that god simply cannot exist.

In some sense all of these positions reflect non-belief in God, but we need to precise about what that means.
 

GymWolf

Member
Lol we are talking about this stuff while the reeeetards obviously opened a topic about "are we okay with white kratos killing black people in future games".

Jesus fuck.

I bet kratos die in this one and the new couple is gonna be formed by little shit and the black child where she only attack some type of enemies and you have to ask her permission before doing a combo on something darker than a caffelatte...
 
Last edited:

ResurrectedContrarian

Suffers with mild autism
Better stick to whooping false gods ass. Very fitting.

I mean, this is exactly what a Christian version of the game would be. One of the core tenets of the faith is that all (lowercase, plural) gods are in fact faces of nothingness, demonic black holes in the sense of pulling you down into the self-delusion of idolatry, and the goal of the faith is quite literally to smash and tear down all of these false images across every corner of the globe, so that the unseen creator behind all things can be glorified without idols or illusion.

There are also plenty of mainstream readings of Christianity that consider false gods to be much like fallen angelic beings, so that they are a little more than nothing (personified nothingness which perverts humanity, so to speak, but somewhat real "powers and principalities" in that way). So smashing all the false gods of the world would be a fitting Christian game, if rather politically divisive.
 

Soodanim

Member
Philosophy represents a more systematic approach. Certainly more credible than popularizers. As soon as you enter the realm of debate you are in fact entering into philosophy and hopefully sound philosophy. History is also against those who describe atheism as a lack of belief as it was never used that way in history. A fraction of the populace cannot change the definition either.
All I get from this is "Changing definitions are ignored because philosophy". I wasn't talking in terms of philosophy, you pushed for that then used it to justify your pushing for it. Don't throw your circular logic at me, heathen.

Say What Excuse Me GIF by Your Happy Workplace


Merriam-Webster and the Oxford dictionary both define atheism as the lack of belief, while atheists.org, atheistalliance.org, atheism.wikia.org, centerforinquiry.org, and presumably many more (that was a quick search for atheism) all define atheism as a lack of belief. Like I said, outside of the bubble of philosophy and its binary sorting no one gives a shit what the original meaning was.

How about that God of war though? Kratos and stuff
 

lukilladog

Member
It would be boring as shit, Kratos could just beat the roman emperor instead and Jesus would tell everybody to pay you obedience and taxes, only to kill himself later and blame someone else. And if you go back to the more aggressive, genocidal, infanticidal and megalomaniac version of Jesus from the old testament, you could just spam a chariot of fire and his minions would run away like little pussies. Mahoma... would not be allowed in a game as he was a pedophile.
 

GustavoLT

Member
I just hopw Santa Monica do not decide to permanent kill Kratos and stop God of War franchise... like Cuckmann did with Uncharted!
 

R6Rider

Gold Member
I just hopw Santa Monica do not decide to permanent kill Kratos and stop God of War franchise... like Cuckmann did with Uncharted!
They will probably kill him at some point, then have a segment of Atreus doing some time shenanigans to get him back.
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
Today’s trailer and subsequent revelation this would be the end of the Norse installments got me wondering where things go next. Is it too far fetched for them to dabble in Abrahamic mythology? Can you imagine that shit? Kratos whooping up on Jesus or Mohammed?
Why would Kratos feel the need to get into a fight with a person who preached love and peace and was crucified for it?
 
Last edited:

01011001

Banned
Why would Kratos feel the need to get into a fight with a person who preached love and peace and was crucified for it?

well you could spin it in a way that this was just a plan from god keep control at a time where the romans conquered many places, pushing their philosophies n stuff.

the old testament god is one of the biggest pieces of shit of any religion, so there's an antagonist. the rest would need some tweaking for sure
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
well you could spin it in a way that this was just a plan from god keep control at a time where the romans conquered many places, pushing their philosophies n stuff.
Sounds like a shit story for a God of War game to be honest. I‘d rather see Kratos fight through ancient pantheons with rich fantastic backgrounds.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Why would Kratos feel the need to get into a fight with a person who preached love and peace and was crucified for it?

A God of War would likely be old testament when shit used to hit the fan.
That or skip straight to revelations and its Kratos vs the armys of Hell.

I dont know why people want Jesus in a God of War game, he was "beaten" by mortal men, DemiGods would do the work easily.
Lest they decide to make Kratos even more of a dick that the divine needs to pt him down or something.
In which case OT would fuck him up....how to fight a god you cant even touch, he just says mate youll be turned to salt on if you look at this city.....if you dont listen you are fucked.
7cca7f44213215.580b5cbb12cf5.jpg
 

kurisu_1974

is on perm warning for being a low level troll
How do you support that claim about the CCP's motives and beliefs?.

Because atheism is not a belief and has no other properties (like socialism or authoritarianism). It is just the absence of belief.

Let's just agree to disagree. You are the fedora version of a theist.
 
Last edited:
Yea and if you claim you know for certain there isn't a God, the proof is on you as well
That’s not how any debate works, in any place, outside of religion. Faith is a strong tool that can move mountains, but supporting it like this is embarrassing.
 
The claim is not that it doesn't negate. But that it doesn't solely negate. If you disagree with this, then you would be committed to the claim that an immoral person is the same as an amoral person.

The point of including both senses of atheism is not to be able to talk about rocks, babies or "innocents". The point is to distinguish between those that believe that the idea of a god doesn't make sense on a conceptual level and so cannot exist, and those that believe that God could exist, but don't currently believe in God, for a variety of reasons. The content of those reasons is what determines the type of athesist someone is. (Just like the type of theist someone is, is determined by the number and form of the of god(s) they believe in) For example there are many people that haven't really thought deeply on the matter of whether God exists. These people clearly don't believe in God, so merit the term atheist, but may seek others to convince them one way or the other (a weak atheist but non-agnostic). Equally someone may have extensively examined the available "evidence", and while not opposed to the existence of God, believe that this existence cannot be proven from that evidence (weak atheist agnostic). Both of these positions are distinct from the "hard atheist" line that god simply cannot exist.

In some sense all of these positions reflect non-belief in God, but we need to precise about what that means.

It is exactly the fact that this alternate definition of atheism obfuscates many groups into one that is the problem. The excluded middle. Making it harder to communicate. People that do not have a position should not be lumped into either side of the proposition. And unburdening one side with a potential equivocation rescuing device. For example the comment I respond to was an "atheist" who condoned intolerance to the 'religious'. How could that come from a lack of belief? Followed by the claim that atheism is a lack of belief. See the problem?
 
Last edited:
You guys have no imagination.

This wouldn't be a battle between God and Kratos, but between Kratos and Satan and his two generals - Beelzebub and Baal for example (and i know that they're all Satan, but it's a fucking video game). And on the 'bright' side we have the Archangels. Say .. God has been missing from the picture for countless millenias. The angels commited to God's commandment to love humans above all else, would still keep His relevance intact and be the caretakers of the Universe. But, given enough time, they would lose their commitment. Because they are not perfect beings. They then take matters into their own hands. Especially the Archangels, given that they are the 2nd strongest beings of existence in the Universe, only behind the Creator Himself.

So you've got Kratos versus the Archangel Michael and the Archangel Gabriel. With some extra lore from the Book of Enoch, we could expand the rooster of Archangels, with Raphael and Uriel.
abrahamic god is some boring shit

You've never read the Old Testament or the Book of Enoch.
 

FireFly

Member
It is exactly the fact that this alternate definition of atheism obfuscates many groups into one that is the problem. The excluded middle. Making it harder to communicate. People that do not have a position should not be lumped into either side of the proposition. And unburdening one side with a potential equivocation rescuing device. For example the comment I respond to was an "atheist" who condoned intolerance to the 'religious'. How could that come from a lack of belief? Followed by the claim that atheism is a lack of belief. See the problem?
I feel like you are conflating having a position with being able to prove something does or does not exist. Take this imagined dialog about the Loch Ness monster:

Believer: Do you believe the Loch Ness monster exists?
Skeptic: No, the sonar scans taken of the loch and our knowledge of the kinds of creatures that could have survived in it, indicate that the Loch Ness monster is extremely unlikely to have existed. So I am a non-believer.
Believer: But has every part of the loch been scanned simultaneously? And could there not be a gap in our scientific understanding?
Skeptic: No, but the majority of it has. And yes it is possible, if unlikely.
Believer: So you can't prove the Loch Ness monster doesn't exist?
Skeptic: I cannot.
Believer: Therefore you can't call yourself a "true" non-believer, since you merely lack belief in the Loch Ness monster but cannot prove that the preposition "the Loch Ness monster exists" is false. The law of the excluded middle tells us that a statement can only be true or false. Since you cannot prove the non truth of the proposition, you do not really have a position.
Skeptic: But I do have a position; I do not think belief in the Loch Ness monster is reasonable, because the evidence does not support that belief.
Believer: So you admit you are a non-believer in the sense that a rock or baby is "non-believer".
Skeptic: I am not claiming merely that I am non-believer, but that I am a non-believer because of the lack of evidence of the existence of the Loch Ness monster. A rock or baby doesn't have a position on these things.
Believer: Ah, but some people claim they are non-believers merely to deflect the burden of proof, while simultaneously making claims about not tolerating believers
Skeptic: The burden is still on these people to defend their claims about toleration. And the burden is still on me to defend my claims about whether it is reasonable to believe in the Loch Ness monster. The fact the "non-believer" classification can be used in faulty arguments does not mean is not useful. Any classification can be used in a faulty argument.

Anyway, the point of this overly long dialogue is that when people talk not believing in something, they are most of the time not attempting to make a rigorous philosophical proof to establish that this thing simply cannot exist as a matter of logic. They are rather making claims about what the evidence supports. The knowledge of the world we can acquire through logic alone is vanishingly small. So I find it perverse to suggest that the concept of (non) belief that exists in politics or science or human affairs generally shouldn't be extended to talk about religion. When the vast majority of people who are not analytic philosophers come to talk about their non-belief, shouldn't we have a way to classify that, and distinguish it from the elaborate claims made about the conceptual impossibility of God?
 
Last edited:

iorek21

Member
Nah.

For the same reason Ubisoft will never really touch God/Jesus/Moses in their Assassin's Creed series (even if there's narrative potential there). The closer they ever got was with those The Truth Puzzles, and never again they did anything like that.

I think that for AAA Blockbuster games, touching the subject of Abrahamic relegions is probably not happening, at least not in the way GOW and AC do. The only way I can see it happening in the AAA scenario is if someone develops a game with heavy religious themes (which I don't think it ever happened as of now), something like Narnia or LotR.
 
Top Bottom