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[PK Gaming]

You left out this part for a reason.



Once again, you're wasting my time by injecting your own interpretation into a game which was perfectly explained to us in the first game. I don't grasp your post because it's filled with nonsense. You can't force your argument on anyone that's based on nothing. But you just attempted to take a recording from the first game out of context to"prove" your point which failed. This means you have nothing. I'm done.

Intentions = / = Results

Countless medical trials were predicated on the idea of reaching a medical breakthrough; merely saying that doesn't mean its a sure thing, especially when it comes to aa virus that utterly crippled humanity.

He's not taking things out of context to prove his point, he's showing how the original game handled the dilemma. It wasn't purely a black or white thing, that Elie's sacrifice wouldn't have guaranteed humanity being saved

 

[Ulysses 31]

That's that really matter? Everyone is a piece of shit in this world. Stop judging the game like they have some kind of morality. They dont give a shit about what ellie or joel think. Or what happen to them for that matter. They are strangers a means to a end

Put yourself in their shoes.

Put yourself in Joel's shoes. He was stripped his gear, the Fireflies weren't going to honour their deal and they were marching him out at gunpoint to who knows where without his resources. The Fireflies chose the wrong guy to escalate the situation with.

That's why I didn't mind Joel tearing through the Fireflies at the end.

I don't see Joel as a good person either but he was the lesser evil at that hospital IMO.

 

[Razvedka]

I think it depends on your moral framework. From a Utilitarian perspective, that essentially being the greatest amount of good for the most amount of people, Joel made a selfish choice. Whether or not that qualifies as an 'evil' choice is a very different can of worms, but it was an immoral one. Insofar as 'not living on a plague infested planet' is, in fact, 'the greatest amount of good for the most amount of people'. I am sure there exist people who would have a go at that assertion. This position also assumes that the procedure which would have killed Ellie would, in fact, have panned out.

But the issue with Utilitarianism is that it is so focused on the Big Picture, and is so teleological, that it misses so many of the personal moments. It neglects the span between beginning and end. I think that this view is too big for many people, and denies Joel his humanity.

As people we like things in very easy to sort boxes. Good, evil, black and white.

But it just isn't that simple, and there are many competing moral frameworks.

Myself, I fancy myself something of a Utilitarian. I think it is a compelling way to look at the world, in spite of the aforementioned limitations. So I would like to say I 'would have made the moral decision'. But until a man faces such a crucible, it is impossible to say. I might well be too small a man to grapple with the scale of such a choice from a purely Utilitarian lens.

 

[captainraincoat]

The relationship that was established in part 1 was that Joel lost his original daughter and took on Ellie and she became sort of his second daughter
killing Ellie in part 1 would not sit well with him as he has already lost a daughter and the choice he made stopped that from happening so his motives were pretty much clear

Part 2 fucked that over and did none of the work to establish Abbies reasons up front and even after it was revealed you felt no real connection to her character because of the fucked up was she was introduced in the first part of the game
and she never even attempted to find out Joels reasons for what he did despite the fact you spend large chunks of the game trying to understand Abbie and how she ticks

Part 2 is a shit sandwich compared to part 1

Team Joel here

Edit
and the people saying that Joel doomed the human race by that choice....there was never any guarantee that it would work

 

[SLB1904]

Put yourself in Joel's shoes. He was stripped his gear, the Fireflies weren't going to honour their deal and they were marching him out at gunpoint to who knows where without his resources. The Fireflies chose the wrong guy to escalate the situation with.

That's why I didn't mind Joel tearing through the Fireflies at the end.

I don't see Joel as a good person either but he was the lesser evil at that hospital IMO.

I think that's the problem with this argument. I didnt think twice when I had to kill the doctor at the end and i was full on board with joel, but at same time I was preoare for karma to catch up with. That's just how it is.

 

[Ulysses 31]

And it was a weak argument since people can hear gunshots. They can also determine if shots are being fired in and outside of a building if they're close. But you said, "wouldn't she be worried about being hit by a stray bullet while approaching the building?"

This is like saying, "How does Batman not know Joker isn't setting him up for a trap before he recused Harvey Dent?" or "How did Batman get there in time just before the building exploded?" You can do this with every single form of entertainment. Characters appear just in time to save others all the time, but clearly you only have an issue with this when it comes to TLOU.

I grant that she could make her way quickly and relatively safely to the building but once inside, at a great disadvantage with one hand and just her knife, everything would hinge on remaining undetected which means she'd be very careful with her movements.

I have issues with characters teleporting in movies too. The more it affects the plot the more it bothers me. I think the Nolan batmans are OK, I don't see them as examples of excellent story writing/telling either.

 

[DForce]

Intentions = / = Results

Countless medical trials were predicated on the idea of reaching a medical breakthrough; merely saying that doesn't mean its a sure thing, especially when it comes to aa virus that utterly crippled humanity.

He's not taking things out of context to prove his point, he's showing how the original game handled the dilemma. It wasn't purely a black or white thing, that Elie's sacrifice wouldn't have guaranteed humanity being saved

He did.

This is also a fictional story which you guys aren't getting.

But lets go with an alternate scenario and say the cure won't work and they can't distribute the cure. This means Ellie being immune would be irrelevant going forward. Ellie would sacrifice herself in TLOU 3 only to die and the doctors wouldn't be able to make a cure. I mean, that REALLY makes sense. They would really have Ellie sacrifice herself in an attempt to make a cure and just die with no result at all.

Think about that.

You really think that's where they're going with the story?

No, they need something to keep the story going and that's the cure. The story has to lead back to someone making a vaccine and the result has to be a cure or Ellie's immunity would mean nothing. This is why the argument people bring forth that it wasn't guaranteed makes zero sense. The cure is the plot device moving forward and it wouldn't make sense on writing a story unless it had true meaning. But yeah, go with your guys scenario and have Ellie sacrifice herself only for it to mean nothing.

 

[Jon Neu]

From my standpoint Druckmann's relationship with Anita Sarkeesian in the past made him a marked man from day#1 in the eyes of the committed anti-SJW brigade.

Thank God the anti-anti-SJW brigade is always fast in cleaning the good name of Cuckmann, unjustly deemed as a SJW just because he knows Anita Sarkeesian.

It's not like he has being very vocal about his identitarian politics and how he introduces them into his games. No, it's just because he's friends with Anita and nothing else!

Poor guy.

 

[Spukc]

OP HATES beefcake princesses.
just admit you don’t like to get fucked raw by a female body builder with an voice lower then yours.

 

[Bit_Reactor]

I think that's the problem with this argument. I didnt think twice when I had to kill the doctor at the end and i was full on board with joel, but at same time I was preoare for karma to catch up with. That's just how it is.

I agree, Karma SHOULD have caught up to him. It's just the way they frame Abby as "the good guy in all this" and the victim that irks me. If she had been more "morally grey" like Joel (and even Ellie) I would have enjoyed it more but majority of her plot is her saving a kid, quipping about heights, having buddies and the only real drama and tension from her plot until Elie catches up to her is a love triangle that has no relation to Ellie and/or the ending where her consequences are completely unrelated to any karmic backfire from her actions against Ellie.

The whole "The world is random and cruel" only works if one character doesn't get to lecture another and then become a martyr for it and get off scott free.

This is also ignoring the whole thing of "we let you live and you wasted it!" which is honestly really already a logic hole. If you want to talk about the cycle of violence and ending it come up with a better plot line than having your main character not kill Ellie because "reasons" and because she was only there for Joel which she had to have known based on Ellie's reactions would come back to bite her.

This goes doubly for the fact that majority of the tracking plot is stacked upon contrivances like "marking a map with their hideout" and how Ellie is "Saved" again because Lev says "How bout we don't" and that being it.

Abby is painted as completely virtuous and in the right in all of her interactions with Ellie, which is why the ending stings so much because we're literally not given anything to go off of other than "Ellie killed her friends" which mostly hated her or just worked with her to begin with.

 

[Ulysses 31]

I think that's the problem with this argument. I didnt think twice when I had to kill the doctor at the end and i was full on board with joel, but at same time I was preoare for karma to catch up with. That's just how it is.

You forget that the doctor pulled a scalpel on Joel head on and wouldn't get out of the way when clearly Joel outgunned him, Darwin award and all that.

I have no issues with Joel's past catching up to him but TLOU2 did it in a lame and contrived way IMO.

 

[DForce]

I grant that she could make her way quickly and relatively safely to the building but once inside, at a great disadvantage with one hand and just her knife, everything would hinge on remaining undetected which means she'd be very careful with her movements.

I have issues with characters teleporting in movies too. The more it affects the plot the more it bothers me. I think the Nolan batmans are OK, I don't see them as examples of excellent story writing/telling either.

If I'm upstairs in my house, then I'll have a good idea where gunshots are being fired. If it's down stairs, I'll rush towards the stairs until i'm near the room. I'm not going to be worried about getting shot upstairs because I know that me getting hit by a bullet is very slim.

People can hear where gunshots are coming from most of the time, in and outside of a building. This is why your argument failed. lol

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

Imagine how many awards the game would have won if the writing wasn't shit.

Why is the writing shit? Also it overtook witcher and won the most awards possible to be in first place.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

Did you you miss this ?

That and the fact that once Ellie found out what joel did she states clearly I should have died on that hospital bed, my life would have mattered then. She knew all along she could have died and she was fine with that, she understood her death had a purpose for a greater good. And joel not only stripped her of that but also the world and society as a whole

 

[Jon Neu]

He did.

This is also a fictional story which you guys aren't getting.

But lets go with an alternate scenario and say the cure won't work and they can't distribute the cure. This means Ellie being immune would be irrelevant going forward. Ellie would sacrifice herself in TLOU 3 only to die and the doctors wouldn't be able to make a cure. I mean, that REALLY makes sense. They would really have Ellie sacrifice herself in an attempt to make a cure and just die with no result at all.

Think about that.

You really think that's where they're going with the story?

You mean that makes less sense than Ellie killing half the world population trying to find Abby and then sparing Abby's life in the last second because she saw Joel in a flashback and somehow "understood" killing her wasn't the "answer"?

That ending would actually make more sense and be more grounded in reality than the pretending to be deep but we don't have any sustance bullshit of TLOU2 ending.

 

[SLB1904]

Why is the writing shit? Also it overtook witcher and won the most awards possible to be in first place.

I think that's sarcasm.

 

[Ulysses 31]

If I'm upstairs in my house, then I'll have a good idea where gunshots are being fired. If it's down stairs, I'll rush towards the stairs until i'm near the room. I'm not going to be worried about getting shot upstairs because I know that me getting hit by a bullet is very slim.

People can hear where gunshots are coming from most of the time, in and outside of a building. This is why your argument failed. lol

You know your house, it's not established that Yara knows the building. She wouldn't know immediately who's firing where either. She has to get in melee range unseen or she's screwed. Again, an easy fix would've been a line or two that she's familiar with the area.

 

[DForce]

You know your house, it's not established that Yara knows the building. She wouldn't know immediately who's firing where either. She has to get in melee range unseen or she's screwed. Again, an easy fix would've been a line or two that she's familiar with the area.

I wouldn't now where to find someone in a big two story building, but hearing sounds would easily lead me in the direction to that person. They don't need to state anything that's obvious.

 

[SLB1904]

You mean that makes less sense than Ellie killing half the world population trying to find Abby and then sparing Abby's life in the last second because she saw Joel in a flashback and somehow "understood" killing her wasn't the "answer"?

That ending would actually make more sense and be more grounded in reality than the pretending to be deep but we don't have any sustance bullshit of TLOU2 ending.

Did you miss ellie killing a pregnant woman. Causing Tommy to get shot in the face
Dina pregnancy.
Jess getting shot?

You sound almost like someone who didnt play the game. "Cuckman" should be a dead give away but I'm not sure

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

I think that's sarcasm.

Ah in all honesty with gaf and revolving tloup2 its hard to tell now lol

 

[Ulysses 31]

That and the fact that once Ellie found out what joel did she states clearly I should have died on that hospital bed, my life would have mattered then. She knew all along she could have died and she was fine with that, she understood her death had a purpose for a greater good. And joel not only stripped her of that but also the world and society as a whole

How was Joel supposed to know that she was OK with dying right then and there without ever saying good bye? They made future plans and built up a strong daughter-father bond at that point. If Ellie was ready to leave Joel at the drop of a hat the whole game then that makes her character look pretty bad, especially since she knows of Joel's daughter and how her death hurt him and it opens up the possibility that she was just using Joel or that she's carelessly cruel.

 

[DForce]

"Making a cure wasn't guaranteed"

Many players — and most parents — might have understood Joel’s decision at the end of the first game, but “The Last of Us Part II” finds that Ellie herself is struggling to make sense of it. It seems like she doesn’t get all the way there until after the fight with Abby in Santa Barbara.

Druckmann: Joel has made this decision for Ellie, and now she has to deal with the consequences of that choice. But again I’m not putting a judgment on it, because we do what we feel is right. And for Joel, the decision to choose Ellie over the vaccine was pretty consistent with his character. He’s the same guy from the prologue of the first game — when he refuses to pick up another family as he and Sarah are driving out of Austin — all the way to the end. He’s willing to do whatever it takes to protect his tribe.

Ellie, who is immune to the deadly cordyceps virus that turns humans into zombies, is deeply disturbed by the cold brutality of the situation. It reminds her of the death of her best friend Riley, Gross said, who was bitten by infected too. The scene would have also touched upon her resentment toward Joel, triggering a frank conversation between them about her survivor’s guilt as they sit at the riverbank. Ellie would have said something along the lines of, “If there had been a cure, we wouldn’t be here,” a nod to the first game’s ending where Joel saves Ellie’s life instead of sacrificing her to bring an end to the virus.

It's hard to accept that the game and writers always imply or state that Joel chose Ellie over the cure. That means the wrote it to be a guaranteed thing.

There's nothing from the writers or the game itself show that it was may not be possible. People who say it wasn't are just having a hard time accepting it so they want to throw different scenarios out there that are not found anywhere in the game.

 

[Ulysses 31]

I wouldn't now where to find someone in a big two story building, but hearing sounds would easily lead me in the direction to that person. They don't need to state anything that's obvious.

She can go towards the gunshots but she's at an extreme disadvantage and needs to get real close undetected. Why should one assume she can navigate that building fast and stealthily enough to rescue Abby the way she did?

 

[DForce]

She can go towards the gunshots but she's at an extreme disadvantage and needs to get real close undetected. Why should one assume she can navigate that building fast and stealthily enough to rescue Abby the way she did?

If a husband hears gunshots being fired in his house and he knows his wife is down stairs, do you think he's going to worry about being stealthy and undetected or is he likely to rush down there and grab the nearest object to protect his wife?

 

[carlosrox]

Didn't watch the video but what Joel did is clearly a grey area. He may have done it for purely selfish reasons but at the same time he basically learned to love and care about something/somebody again and expecting someone to give that up over what was a maybe is kinda crazy.

Obviously he could have handled the whole situation differently but then so could have the Fireflies. They threatened his life, gave Ellie no say in the matter, and also knew what they were doing was morally pretty wrong. If they had the decency to let Joel see her one last time then things could have been different. They put a gun to him and expected him to be okay with walking out as they killed what he considered to be his second daughter. Not gonna fly.

There is no real right answer really but personally I disagree with people saying Joel is an outright piece of shit cuz of what he did. I'd probably have done the same thing and so would a great deal of people in that situation.

TLOU is an all-time classic, and part 2 isn't too far behind. It may not have quite the same impact as the first but damn is it a solid game.

 

[Ulysses 31]

If a husband hears gunshots being fired in his house and he knows his wife is down stairs, do you think he's going to worry about being stealthy and undetected or is he likely to rush down there and grab the nearest object to protect his wife?

I assume your house isn't as big as that building so you'd have to travel more distance unseen. If the enemy has a gun and you don't, I'd assume you wouldn't want to alert the enemy when you're in such a disadvantage. With the element of surprise on your side you pretty much only get one shot so I'd assume you wouldn't squander it by being loud/visible because you're rushing. I assume Yara values her life.

 

[DForce]

I assume your house isn't as big as that building so you'd have to travel more distance unseen. If the enemy has a gun and you don't, I'd assume you wouldn't want to alert the enemy in such a disadvantages situation to you. With the element of surprise on your side you pretty much only get one shot so I'd assume you wouldn't squander it by being loud/visible because you're rushing. I assume Yara values her life.

You didn't answer the question. It's clear why because you know what I said is true.

Many people have been in this scenario to protect their loved ones and they didn't care about remaining in detected. Abby was detected and she was able to get close to Tommy. So if you're in a building, you can hear which area the shots are being fired from and which corner of the building.

Since Tommy was shooting inside, she didn't have to worry about being shot from the outside. If Tommy was shooting hear the far in of the building, she can hear it and didn't have to worry about getting fired, specially if she can run along side objects to protect herself.

It's obvious you don't think these things through when you're making an argument.

 

[SLB1904]

You didn't answer the question. It's clear why because you know what I said is true.

Many people have been in this scenario to protect their loved ones and they didn't care about remaining in detected. Abby was detected and she was able to get close to Tommy. So if you're in a building, you can hear which area the shots are being fired from and which corner of the building.

Since Tommy was shooting inside, she didn't have to worry about being shot from the outside. If Tommy was shooting hear the far in of the building, she can hear it and didn't have to worry about getting fired, specially if she can run along side objects to protect herself.

It's obvious you don't think these things through when you're making an argument.

And let's ignore the fact scars are pretty stealthy. It's literally how they survive

 

[Ulysses 31]

You didn't answer the question. It's clear why because you know what I said is true.

Many people have been in this scenario to protect their loved ones and they didn't care about remaining in detected. Abby was detected and she was able to get close to Tommy. So if you're in a building, you can hear which area the shots are being fired from and which corner of the building.

Since Tommy was shooting inside, she didn't have to worry about being shot from the outside. If Tommy was shooting hear the far in of the building, she can hear it and didn't have to worry about getting fired, specially if she can run along side objects to protect herself.

It's obvious you don't think these things through when you're making an argument.

I don't think your house situation is comparable to the building situation of TLUO2. In your house example if I think I can get there in time to make a difference then I'd probably risk it since the distance is way shorter than Yara had to traverse.

 

[EDMIX]

She can go towards the gunshots but she's at an extreme disadvantage and needs to get real close undetected. Why should one assume she can navigate that building fast and stealthily enough to rescue Abby the way she did?

My god, breath...get some air, this is a fucking VIDEO GAME! It happened the way it did because that is what the writers wanted. This isn't a fucking simulation of a historical factual event or something.

 

[Ulysses 31]

And let's ignore the fact scars are pretty stealthy. It's literally how they survive

Obviously she was since she surprises Tommy and the player, I just didn't find it believable with the information present in the game that she could pull off such a feat in the limited time.

 

[Neff]

Ellie wasn't a monster at the start of the game by the internal logic of the people making the game.

I wasn't talking about the beginning, I was talking about the end.

They even said that Ellie not killing Abby at the end, was Ellie saving her own soul and humanity

Again, this doesn't negate the idea that Ellie is -or isn't- a monster. She's committed unspeakable acts, she can't undo them or absolve herself of her crimes. Her battle isn't with her path of violence, she's murdered half of America without batting an eye. Her battle is her relationship with Joel. And Abby simply becomes an unfortunate participant by contributing a huge amount of additional turbulence to that. Ellie seeks forgiveness from Joel the only way she knows how, by killing his killer, and tells herself it's all in the name of justice. It's at the very moment she realises she's killing someone who is just like Joel (hence the flashback) that the truth hits her, and killing Abby no longer serves its purpose.

Ironic that we're talking about this in a thread about the purported lack of ambiguity in Part II.

 

[SLB1904]

Obviously she was since she surprises Tommy and the player, I just didn't find it believable with the information present in the game that she could pull off such a feat in the limited time.

To be fair it seems like a generic scene that I've seen in loads of movies and tv shows. That's why I didnt put much thought into it.

 

[angrod14]

The fact that the annoying bitch doesn't understand joel's point of view for the entire fucking game make her even more obnoxious.

Abby team, fight me.

The murder of the doctors, including Abby's father, was kinda unnecessary. Go back and watch that scene again. They were scared to death and represented no threat to a guy like Joel. Abby's dad raised a scalpel when he entered the room, but it was clear he was only trying to repel Joel. Instead of just taking Ellie and running away, or simply knocking the medics out and flying off, he proceeds to viciously murder all of them like some sort of rage-fueled savage animal.

 

[Ulysses 31]

My god, breath...get some air, this is a fucking VIDEO GAME! It happened the way it did because that is what the writers wanted. This isn't a fucking simulation of a historical factual event or something.

Sure and I find it worthy of my criticism. Nowhere did I say people have something wrong with them if they don't question how Yara pulled it off. I'm simply giving my personal take and I don't think less of people who disagree with me since after all this is about a fictional world.

 

[DForce]

I don't think your house situation is comparable to the building situation of TLUO2. In your house example if I think I can get there in time to make a difference then I'd probably risk it since the distance is way shorter than Yara had to traverse.

It is.

So you admit that you're not worried about getting shot if you think you can make it there in time. This kills your argument about Yara having to always move stealthy.

 

[DForce]

And let's ignore the fact scars are pretty stealthy. It's literally how they survive

They are and they're well aware on how sound travels. They have also been in war with the WLF and a lot of them don't even use long ranged weapons.

 

[Ulysses 31]

It is.

So you admit that you're not worried about getting shot if you think you can make it there in time. This kills your argument about Yara having to always move stealthy.

Your house example seems like there's only a few rooms between you and your target. Not the same situation with what Yara has to traverse to get close to Tommy if she entered the building from the stairs your pointed out.

So no, I maintain that Yara has to get close enough first while remaining undetected. If Tommy saw her coming from a distance, what would Yara do against him?

 

[Ulysses 31]

They are and they're well aware on how sound travels. They have also been in war with the WLF and a lot of them don't even use long ranged weapons.

I don't question that Yara can be stealthy. I question that she could figure out a route fast enough to Tommy in a building she doesn't know while remaining undetected on her first try.

 

[DForce]

Your house example seems like there's only a few rooms between you and your target. Not the same situation with what Yara has to traverse to get close to Tommy if she entered the building from the stairs your pointed out.

So no, I maintain that Yara has to get close enough first while remaining undetected. If Tommy saw her coming from a distance, what would Yara do against him?

No. You know when a shot is being fired inside of a room regardless of how small or big the house or building is. As I said, you didn't think this through well enough because you're too busy trying to find holes that doesn't make any sense. Yara could easily stayed covered until it was safe to move closer. Tommy cannot keep 3 people from coming towards him, that's why he had to keep looking for cover. If you know sound is traveling away from you inside of a room, then you know they're too far away to see you.

 

[DForce]

I don't question that Yara can be stealthy. I question that she could figure out a route a fast enough to Tommy in a building she doesn't know while remaining undetected on her first try.

She did because she made it there. Shot were being fired by both parties at the far end of the building. This is what humans are able to determine with their ears. If I hear multiple gunshots from two different people far away, then I know they're not anywhere close, and that means I don't have to worry as much about being stealthy.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

Did you you miss this ?

How was Joel supposed to know that she was OK with dying right then and there without ever saying good bye? They made future plans and built up a strong daughter-father bond at that point. If Ellie was ready to leave Joel at the drop of a hat the whole game then that makes her character look pretty bad, especially since she knows of Joel's daughter and how her death hurt him and it opens up the possibility that she was just using Joel or that she's carelessly cruel.

She states no matter what, also we're being ignorant to the fact that in winter joel find out the cordycept grows all over the brain from the doctor who died to the bite. Joel knew what it would come to but he wanted to ignore the facts. The fact that she is immune means her infection mutated on her brain meaning they have to open her up. Ellie purpose was to die in that hospital, she states its several times in part 2 as well. Joel had selfish reasons to keep her alive when she wanted to sacrifice herself for a greater good

 

[Woo-Fu]

just admit you don’t like to get fucked raw by a female body builder with an voice lower then yours.

I don't remember any bodybuilding scenes. She's a twiggy girl, then a big timeskip and she's Arnold's twin sister. They never go over her obtaining that physique, nor does she spend any time during the story maintaining it. Considering how many flashbacks are in the two games to explain exactly why people did what they did and how they became who they are today I find it strange they left that one out completely.

She looks like a powerlifter who never did any powerlifting. I mean, maybe she threw discus for the Soviets back in the 80s, who knows?

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

Let's say even cure was possible, how the fuck are they gonna distribute this to entire human race? currently governments are having hard time distributing vaccine for COVID let alone small group of Fireflies with barely any resource. Also I can guess the "cure" only work for people who recently got bitten, not people who are already infected and beyond saving......this just a pipe dream not worth sacrificing life over it.

Well they'd prob inoculate fireflies first and then for their own selfish reasons use it as a bargaining chip with the government to meet some demands to help distribute it. They were helping society but making sure they got theirs in the end as well

Also I dare to think how the people of Jackson would even feel if they found out Joel stopped the one person to extract the mutated cordycept and make a vaccine etc. Because remember only Tommy knows and promised to take it to his grave. I can guarantee alot of people around the world and even Jackson would have taken Joels head for still making them live the way they do when they had a chance at a normal society within the few years.

 

[Sub_Level]

"Joel did nothing wrong - the importance of ambiguity."

I've never seen a title contradict itself so spectacularly. This guy didn't grasp TLOU1 at all.

 

[Danjin44]

normal society within the few years.

Even with "cure" society will never go back to normal after severe pandemic like in TLOU.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

I don't remember any bodybuilding scenes. She's a twiggy girl, then a big timeskip and she's Arnold's twin sister. They never go over her obtaining that physique, nor does she spend any time during the story maintaining it. Considering how many flashbacks are in the two games to explain exactly why people did what they did and how they became who they are today I find it strange they left that one out completely.

She looks like a powerlifter who never did any powerlifting. I mean, maybe she threw discus for the Soviets back in the 80s, who knows?

In the flashbacks she always stated she hated missing traning 1 because she didnt want to get in trouble and 2 because it was valauble for her revenge also she brags to Owen about benching 180 pounds for the first time

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

Even with "cure" society will never go back to normal after severe pandemic like in TLOU.

With a vaccine why not? There would only be so many infected either and after years people could retake the world as is was, granted it would be years but the system would be reset. Thats what vaccines are for, a reset. Humans are resilient.

 

[Ulysses 31]

No. You know when a shot is being fired inside of a room regardless of how small or big the house or building is. As I said, you didn't think this through well enough because you're too busy trying to find holes that doesn't make any sense. Yara could easily stayed covered until it was safe to move closer. Tommy cannot keep 3 people from coming towards him, that's why he had to keep looking for cover. If you know sound is traveling away from you inside of a room, then you know they're too far away to see you.

Tommy stopped plenty before Abby and Co.

Hearing where a gunshot is coming from is not the same a knowing how to get there undetected, especially if you're not familiar with the area.

She did because she made it there. Shot were being fired by both parties at the far end of the building. This is what humans are able to determine with their ears. If I hear multiple gunshots from two different people far away, then I know they're not anywhere close, and that means I don't have to worry as much about being stealthy.

And as you get closer to the gunshots and you aren't in a position to fight back, it would make sense to take extra care to remain undetected. So unless Yara was very familiar with the area and could make a good educated guess where the fight was happening, it seems unlikely that Yara could find her way there in time.

 

[DForce]

Tommy stopped plenty before Abby and Co.

Hearing where a gunshot is coming from is not the same a knowing how to get there undetected, especially if you're not familiar with the area.

And as you get closer to the gunshots and you aren't in a position to fight back, it would make sense to take extra care to remain undetected. So unless Yara was very familiar with the area and could make a good educated guess where the fight was happening, it seems unlikely that Yara could find her way there in time.

He stopped as soon as Abby got closer.

Hearing gunshots know when it's safe to approach and how far you are from the ones taking the shots. You're not good at this. lol