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[Danjin44]

Only a dumbass could believe such a stupid ideia. Human race are trying to survive, with what they can with limited resource, they're killing each other to survive... Chirst... even human are eating another human... but somehow fireflies are the Gods and they will save all.
I like the ideia of the adult Ellie be 'such a silly adult girl' and admit she don't care if is a tiny possibility of her 'cure' could save humanity, but hey she wanted to give a try. 'You deny my death'. Dude, this script is so disconnected with the reality.

Let's say even cure was possible, how the fuck are they gonna distribute this to entire human race? currently governments are having hard time distributing vaccine for COVID let alone small group of Fireflies with barely any resource. Also I can guess the "cure" only work for people who recently got bitten, not people who are already infected and beyond saving......this just a pipe dream not worth sacrificing life over it.

 

[DForce]

I like how people in here like the video because it's about how the ending of TLOU is ambiguous.
But the people who agree with the video also agree that Joel 100% did the right thing, so to them, the ending is not ambiguous.

The biggest critics usually don't have a good understanding of the story of TLOU 1 or 2. What's shocking is that they don't understand what "retcon" or "plot holes" even mean.

 

[Fake]

Lets even cure was possible, how the fuck they gonna distribute this entire human race? currently governments are having hard time distributing vaccine for COVID let alone small group of Fireflies with barely any resource. Also I can guess the "cure" only work for people who recently got bitten, not people who are already infected and beyond saving......this just pipe dream not worth sacrificing life over it.

Not to mention the Fireflies fight against the government. Is such a large scale plan with a small little possibility of this work. I like the first game because they gave you this illusion of how this could work against all the problems you face on the way to delivery Ellie.

 

[SLB1904]

?

I can assume you're fan of sequel at this point.

What one thing got to do with other?

 

[Fake]

What one thing got to do with other?

Your zero counter argument say more than you think.

 

[EDMIX]

Only a dumbass could believe such a stupid ideia. Human race are trying to survive, with what they can with limited resource, but somehow fireflies are the Gods.

? smh.

No need for namecalling man, relax.

The human race is very much trying to survive and you can tell how desperate they are that they are literally putting their faith and resources into the Fireflies. When you have billions of humans dead from a virus like this, what else are they are to do? Nothing? Seeing how people are acting during the very pandemic we are all living in tells me this game isn't that far off in terms of how people behave.

Think about it for just a minute man.... "what they can with limited resource, but somehow fireflies are the Gods", ikr with such limited things look at those who literally got themselves killed just this year all in the name of some troll off of Reddit.

It would be like me saying some shit like "trying to survive with what they can with limited resource, but somehow Q from reddit are the gods". People believe in many things, you and I don't need to agree with what they believe in, but you need to understand that people like that will exist and I'd argue what they are backing with the Fireflies during the time they are in, under the exact context and circumstance makes sense.

Whats their alternative? CDC? WHO? FEDRA?

 

[SLB1904]

Your zero counter argument say more than you think.

Let's try again. What argument you are trying to make?

 

[Clear]

What I found super embarrassing is the Director of his own game bashing their own fanbase.

You don't get to choose your fanbase, and inevitably a proportion of them are going to be assholes and idiots.

Honestly its a terrible double-standard that gamers get to routinely shower abuse and criticism on devs, but God forbid a dev actually tells it like it is in return!

Its nutty. Do you like everyone who posts here? Do you like me? We're all Gaffers as a collective, but we're still individuals with our own outlooks and manners of expression. To think other is to wholesale buy into the whole critical theory thing, where we're all just homogenous members of a bloc.

 

[Fake]

? smh.

No need for namecalling man, relax.

The human race is very much trying to survive and you can tell how desperate they are that they are literally putting their faith and resources into the Fireflies. When you have billions of humans dead from a virus like this, what else are they are to do? Nothing? Seeing how people are acting during the very pandemic we are all living in tells me this game isn't that far off in terms of how people behave.

Think about it for just a minute man.... "what they can with limited resource, but somehow fireflies are the Gods", ikr with such limited things look at those who literally got themselves killed just this year all in the name of some troll off of Reddit.

It would be like me saying some shit like "trying to survive with what they can with limited resource, but somehow Q from reddit are the gods". People believe in many things, you and I don't need to agree with what they believe in, but you need to understand that people like that will exist and I'd argue what they are backing with the Fireflies during the time they are in, under the exact context and circumstance makes sense.

Whats their alternative? CDC? WHO? FEDRA?

I can give you one thing to reflex.


This is what happens when you make a game so heavily story focused. Is like a two edge sword.

 

[Gonpachiro Kamaboko]

I cannot stand that guys fake drunk voice

 

[JayK47]

Hard to pay attention when the gameplay video loops repeatedly. I really hate that with youtube gaming channels.

Anyways, the video does not exactly sell the sequel. I hate sequels that shit all over the original and do not respect the story or characters to push some new narrative.

 

[Bit_Reactor]

That's the whole point of the game. Would you risk the life of a loved one for a % chance of a cure. It was a desperation move by the fireflys from the very beginning.

I know. That's why the poster saying "There definitely was a cure" doesn't work. Because that's not the premise. There was a CHANCE at a cure. The poster I was replying to was saying definitively that Joel doomed the human race because they were going to cut out her brain and make a cure. That's why the argument holds less weight.

Teaches her how to play and gives her his guitar is "bad" everyone...

Gives epic birthday gift , as evil as they come folks, fucking disgusting, how this was not censored is beyond me /s

Defends her publicly....just like something a scum would do, out here trying to help and defend people /s

Apologizes and looks to make things right over a cup of coffee, how this didn't get the AO rating right here is baffling /s




Well yes, its to keep it in the air and ambiguous in the first place. Going to agree with DForce on this as its clear they want you to live with that "what if" to show he took some of that hope away. So in that respect yes, Joel very much choose Ellie over mankind. That isn't a fucking argument about if it was going to work or not, its saying he took away a feasible hope at that time of them finding out more about the virus that could have lead to a cure.... thats it. So he is choosing Ellie over the progress to get to the cure that can save mankind. You can spin that shit anyway you feel like it, but that very much is whats happening.



Nah bud. WLF at war with FEDRA and Scars and people turning and dying, that is anything but "doing so fine". Thats the biggest load of BS I've heard a in while about this game. That is some massive denial. Image trying to really argue that in a post apocalyptic universe, folks are doing fine considering the actual events that happen in that world. Its reallllllly hard to take anyone seriously trying to really reach for such a wild stretch.



I disagree. The violence and chaos and death very much shows such a thing is needed. They don't need scream about it every 5 seconds in order to understand those people would not say no to a cure lol.





Nah, thats the incident that gets ABBY to go to Joel, but many of the characters in WLF who hate Joel that used to be Fireflies, clearly hate him because he halted that progress and clearly murdered people they love. So when Nora is saying "how many people are dead because of him", its clear they are not talking about a fixed number based on dead Fireflies, but the unknown number of people that are dying because of the virus. Abby isn't the only one with skin in this game to kill Joel man. SO that outcome very much plays into so many wanting Joel dead. Dead because of people he killed himself and dead because of the people they believe he indirectly killed by halting that program by saving Ellie and killing those doctors.



So the way I see it, Abby just gets to Joel first, anyone could have been hunting for his ass with great reason to kill him.

This is the problem with a lot of the "feels vs logic" critiques come from.

You're showing scenes where JOEL is shown as a "GOOD PERSON" but not that the action of killing the doctor is "good" or even necessary. It is there to endear you to Joel, not to the act. The scenes do nothing to address it until the confrontation with Ellie. These scenes are not in relation to his killing of people to save one person over the many, it's just "Look at how nice Joel is" which is a completely different narrative framing. It's an attempt to endear those who maybe don't like Joel to the idea that he's not a shitty person for what he did, but the plot ultimately decides that what he DID was bad, not that HE is a bad person as a result. It wants to have its cake and eat it too.

Your snark carries no weight because "Teaching her how to play guitar" does not in any way re-frame or change the existence of his killing of a doctor. The only scenes that DO inform that decision (mostly from Abby's perspective) including the Ellie fight, all frame Joel in a negative light, including but not limited to Ellie literally shitting on Joel up until the coffee porch talk. You also ignore that Ellie lambasts Joel FOR defending her in that same breath...Interesting.

Your hands must be tired from beating up all that straw.

----------------------------------

Joel choosing "ellie over mankind" once again carries no weight as in the sequel game the Zombies might as well be an afterthought as the most horrible things in the game are done by humans to humans, which could still be told and happen without any zombie presence.

----------------------------------

Folks are doing fine in Jackson. They have supply routes, society, etc. They have to deal with the occasional zombie attack. Ellie and her fam (once again) later live in an undefended cabin in the middle of an open field. The game does not reinforce the danger here. And again, the other issues you present here, are without zombie involvement. They are people fighting/killing people. The inciting INCIDENT was the zombies, but they take a much more backstage presence in the sequel vs being the driving motif to the plot like the first one, where they were a constantly visual threat, and also less of a drive on the main plot.

----------------------------------

Again, regardless of a cure, people do not all of a sudden become best friends. If the cure was found they'd not only have to distribute it but also would have to be trusted to not lord it over the rest of the world (which could be an actually interesting plotline) in order to have power. We are past the point of no return by the time of TLOU1. The apocalypse is here and the world has gone to shit. Regardless of a cure people are killing each other for survival and a "cure" is not going to magically kill all those clickers.

----------------------------------

I love the "how many people are dead because of him" line because it very often ignores the entire idea of the Wolves killing scars, scars killing wolves, fireflies killing hunters, etc. We constantly discuss the "futility of it all" because everyone is killing each other in a vicious cycle but then when it's Joel it's "think of all the death!" It holds no weight once again because no one in the story would still be alive if there was a cure. They would still be dead because Abby killed JOel and Ellie is getting her revenge. There is no part of the TLOU2 narrative that is effected by the CURE itself, only by Joel's action in relation to it.

----------------------------------

And yeah anyone could have been hunting Joel. I would have been fine with him dying. The issue is the plotline behind Abby and the fireflies and the "cure" all don't add up, and the actions of the game at the ending and the way Abby's narrative are framed are all pointing to "What Joel did is wrong."

 

[Fake]

Let's try again. What argument you are trying to make?

Re-read my post again. Slower this time.

You don't get to choose your fanbase, and inevitably a proportion of them are going to be assholes and idiots.

Honestly its a terrible double-standard that gamers get to routinely shower abuse and criticism on devs, but God forbid a dev actually tells it like it is in return!

Its nutty. Do you like everyone who posts here? Do you like me? We're all Gaffers as a collective, but we're still individuals with our own outlooks and manners of expression. To think other is to wholesale buy into the whole critical theory thing, where we're all just homogenous members of a bloc.

Nobody is forced to like anything and thats I 100% agree with you, but unless you have be missing all the post the Director make about this game. Telling their own fanbase to seek mental help?

Who tha hell talk like that? Imagine people not liking the way Zelda franchise go and the Director tell you that.

Again, only if you missed all the hot takes he make on the twitter. If you wish, I can search all the 'tweets' he made against everyone who hated the plot.

Remember he calling the game magazine because he don't agree with the score?

 

[EDMIX]

how the fuck they gonna distribute this entire human race?

They can work on that down the line man, they don't need to have this entire 100% full proof plan to start looking for a cure, you are acting as if the question of how it will be given to all people must be answered before they fined a cure or its not worth it or something.

...this just pipe dream not worth sacrificing life over it.

When billions are dying, I disagree.

currently governments are having hard time distributing vaccine for COVID

Yet the vaccine came..... having a hard time doesn't mean don't do it or it can't be done or anything remotely like that. Its simply you finding any excuse to pretend saving lives would not be worth it all while arguing what you'd do for YOUR loved one.

Guess what?

That is what folks would do for THEIR loved ones Danjin..... they'd do all that shit to cure many people. If you can understand Joel's sacrifice you can understand the sacrifice of all the people fighting against the odds to get a cure instead of arguing about how it will be shipped out or if they are bigger then the government or not etc.

So in their situation, they have no government lol That only argues JUST how important it is they get all the info and knowledge they can to make a cure though, it makes the importance even more extreme.

 

[EDMIX]

You're showing scenes where JOEL is shown as a "GOOD PERSON" but not that the action of killing the doctor is "good"

Thats nice. It still shows many perspectives. Nothing about feelings bud, simply facts. The rest of your post is a spinfest as you can't really answer how they are making him "bad" with all those scenes. have a good one (added to that classic ignore)

Fake I like that the story is that way, that months later we are talking about it with many different perspectives and view points, ideas etc. I appreciate that it can be intermitted in so many different ways. I won't get into anything regarding personal feelings with the director or twitter or anything like that.

I simply don't game for those reasons and feel it derails too much of the thread into some personal issue with a person vs the actual content of the game.

 

[SLB1904]

Re-read my post again. Slow this time.



Nobody is forced to like anything, but unless you have be missing all the post the Director make about this game. Telling their own fanbase to seek mental help?

Who tha hell talk like that? Imagine people not liking the way Zelda franchise go and the Director tell you that.

Again, only if you missed all the hot takes he make on the twitter. If you wish, I can search all the 'tweets' he made against everyone who hated the plot.

Remember he calling the game magazine because he don't agree with the score?

Your post is nonsense with a bunch of assumptions. Is not for you to decide or to believe if it would work or not. At the end of the day joel was given a job to deliver ellie so she can be cut open. That's it. Do you get it now?

 

[DForce]

Lets even cure was possible, how the fuck they gonna distribute this entire human race? currently governments are having hard time distributing vaccine for COVID let alone small group of Fireflies with barely any resource. Also I can guess the "cure" only work for people who recently got bitten, not people who are already infected and beyond saving......this just pipe dream not worth sacrificing life over it.

How?

It's a fictional story. They could do it if they want.

They can easily write a story to where an organization from another country helped distribute the vaccine and they're 10 times larger than the Fireflies, or they found organizations across the world with similar goals. So I don't get the "How can the distribute this to the entire human race" when it's a fictional story in a world with many possibilities.

It's only human nature for people to not only care about themselves, but also for their off-spring. So it doesn't matter if distributing a vaccine would be much slower than COVID, it's the fact that they would be able to bring mankind back from the brink of extinction.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Did you you miss this ?

And did miss that she didn't know death would be a requirement at that point? She even makes future plans with Joel moments after that scene.

Unless you believe she was ready to cut off Joel from her life at a moments notice throughout the whole game and the daughter-father relationship they built up to that point built didn't really mean much to her. I somehow doubt that.

 

[Bit_Reactor]

Thats nice. It still shows many perspectives. Nothing about feelings bud, simply facts. The rest of your post is a spinfest as you can't really answer how they are making him "bad" with all those scenes. have a good one (added to that classic ignore)

Fake I like that the story is that way, that months later we are talking about it with many different perspectives and view points, ideas etc. I appreciate that it can be intermitted in so many different ways.

When in doubt, forfeit and say it's a spin, publically call an ignore and throw a tantrum elsewhere. Sounds good.

"You can't answer any of my points!"
Were you going to answer...any of mine without being condescending?
"LOL IGNORE"

Good shit.

 

[Fake]

Fake I like that the story is that way, that months later we are talking about it with many different perspectives and view points, ideas etc. I appreciate that it can be intermitted in so many different ways.

Indeed. Is just shock values I don't usually agree. Maybe because I hate Game of Thrones or TWD series, IDK, but I get your point.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Dude putting a video out on this months later is really weak. I almost considered unsubbing, I tire of his weak choices of owning the libs. Go for something deeper my guy.

 

[Fake]

Your post is nonsense with a bunch of assumptions. Is not for you to decide or to believe if it would work or not. At the end of the day joel was given a job to deliver ellie so she can be cut open. That's it. Do you get it now?

Assumptions? Do you even played the first game dude?

 

[EDMIX]

Indeed. Is just shock values I don't usually agree. Maybe because I hate Game of Thrones or TWD series, IDK, but I get your point.

I think its better that way as thats how real life is.

We are all not going to agree with lets say a President. Some will see as evil, some will see as a hero, but thats how that would work in a game, it would be many people with many different views and I like that The Last Of Us series is done in that way to show how humans behave, for better or for worse.

 

[Bit_Reactor]

I asked you to provide proof to your claims with documents found in the game and what have you provided so far?

Nothing.

This means your arguments are based on fanfic theories and not actually based on the story of the game.



I think it's clear you don't know what a retcon means. A retcon in this situation would mean they rewrote how Joel was able to get to the Ellie... Example being that Joel did not shoot the guard that was escorting him out, but they gave him his bad and he just decided to turn on him. THAT would be a retcon. Not giving Joel supplies and sending him out alone isn't a dickish move since they know there would be a high chance of people getting killed if they gave him his guns back. So again, your arguments make no sense.



It is. Abby knows Ellie and Abby is going to look for the Fireflies. The Fireflies are relevant still because they're still connected to Ellie and the cure.

So if Ellie and Abby are both in TLOU 3, what's going to make them meet up again? The cure. There would be no other reason for them to reconnect again, unless the ran into each other while going after the Fireflies...But do you know why Ellie would go back? You guess it! Because of the cure.

Right now it's a big waste of time because you're not giving me anything other than fanfic theories.

If you want to keep this conversation going, start quoting documents from the game to back up your argument. other than that, I'm not going to waste my time. Nothing you have shown me thus far proves the cure wouldn't be possible other than some "what if" scenario that the writers did not intent or bother writing because it was painfully obvious that the cure was guaranteed.

"the writers say they'll come up with a cure"
Where does it say that they will succeed in the game?
"Well where does it say they can't! Checkmate!"
Alright.

Thought Gaf would be more interesting discourse than the other place but apparently it's the same stuff in a different flavor.

To speak to the Retcon Definition:
(in a film, television series, or other fictional work) a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency.

The framing of the doctor and the Fireflies in a more sympathetic light from Abby's perspective can be seen as both a retcon and/or a "different perspective" on the same events. But it definitely only serves to paint the Fireflies in a better light, where the players had a reason to not trust or like them in TLOU1. Therefore, most people call it a retcon.

This has been fun people. I'm out.

 

[DForce]

"the writers say they'll come up with a cure"
Where does it say that they will succeed in the game?
"Well where does it say they can't! Checkmate!"
Alright.

Thought Gaf would be more interesting discourse than the other place but apparently it's the same stuff in a different flavor.

To speak to the Retcon Definition:
(in a film, television series, or other fictional work) a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency.

The framing of the doctor and the Fireflies in a more sympathetic light from Abby's perspective can be seen as both a retcon and/or a "different perspective" on the same events. But it definitely only serves to paint the Fireflies in a better light, where the players had a reason to not trust or like them in TLOU1. Therefore, most people call it a retcon.

This has been fun people. I'm out.

It says they were going to make a cure.

That means they were going to do it.

You have to prove different..........and you can't.

Yes, you're out. You're bringing nothing And nothing you prove is showing a retcon other than the doctor's skin color.

 

[SLB1904]

And did miss that she didn't know death would be a requirement at that point? She even makes future plans with Joel moments after that scene.

Unless you believe she was ready to cut off Joel from her life at a moments notice throughout the whole game and the daughter-father relationship they built up to that built didn't really mean much to her. I somehow doubt that.

Did ellie look happy when joel lie to her at the end? She clearly was ready for whatever would come to her. She's not stupid.

You know everything that happens in the game was the writers intentions right?

 

[Ulysses 31]

"the writers say they'll come up with a cure"
Where does it say that they will succeed in the game?
"Well where does it say they can't! Checkmate!"
Alright.

Thought Gaf would be more interesting discourse than the other place but apparently it's the same stuff in a different flavor.

To speak to the Retcon Definition:
(in a film, television series, or other fictional work) a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency.

The framing of the doctor and the Fireflies in a more sympathetic light from Abby's perspective can be seen as both a retcon and/or a "different perspective" on the same events. But it definitely only serves to paint the Fireflies in a better light, where the players had a reason to not trust or like them in TLOU1. Therefore, most people call it a retcon.

This has been fun people. I'm out.

There's a bigger retcon in the game than the nobody doctor in TLUO1 suddenly having vengeful family. Ellie's attitude from not knowing that death could be a possibility to being pissed at Joel that he stopped her death from happening, somehow implying that Joel should've known she would've wanted to die without ever saying good bye to him.

 

[Bit_Reactor]

It says they were going to make a cure.

That means they were going to do it.

You have to prove different..........and you can't.

Yes, you're out. You're bringing nothing And nothing you prove is showing a retcon other than the doctor's skin color.

You presented the case "They were going to make a cure." First.

I asked for citation from the game. You did not provide other than Joel's "They were going to kill you to make a cure." Which is only a possibility and never a 100% sure thing based on the audio logs and context of the plot. Neither of us can prove that the cure would/wouldn't work is what I was getting at, but I see that we have to spell that out for some users.

That's the point though, I was countering that you think it's 100% a sure thing because "They said they will so they will" which is...one of the most shaky ass arguments I've ever seen for a story. But sure, keep trying to say I'm not bringing anything to the table as you deflect when I literally spell out the definition of Retcon and explain the ways it makes it seem as such.

There is no way of knowing they could have made a cure. There is no way of knowing they couldn't. That's why using the argument of "They were going to save humanity" is a red herring because there's no confirmation of it being possible in the narrative, just that they know how it works (i.e. fungal infection that stops the other infections from spreading/growing/etc).

You're missing the entire point of the argument for some faux internet gotcha and that's why this is a moot point. Why would I go painstaking through every piece of dialogue In TLOU2 to prove my point when half my points I've brought up thus far have been either glossed over or ignored or rebutted with the equivalent of "nuh-uh you are"?

 

[DForce]

There's a bigger retcon in the game than the nobody doctor in TLUO1 suddenly having vengeful family. Ellie's attitude from not knowing that death could be a possibility to being pissed at Joel that he stopped her death from happening, somehow implying that Joel should've known she would've wanted to die without ever saying good bye to him.

You guys need to look up the word retcon. The fact that you two have failed at it so far is pretty hilarious.

 

[SLB1904]

Assumptions? Do you even played the first game dude?

Tlous was my most played game on ps4 . Plus a bunch of youtube reactions and play throughs. I know that game back to back.

 

[Fake]

Tlous was my most played game on ps4 . Plus a bunch of youtube reactions and play throughs. I know that game back to back.

And you still call what I posted 'assumption'? Dude, just don't force me to post youtube cutscenes of the game only to prove otherwise.

 

[DForce]

You presented the case "They were going to make a cure." First.

I asked for citation from the game. You did not provide other than Joel's "They were going to kill you to make a cure." Which is only a possibility and never a 100% sure thing based on the audio logs and context of the plot. Neither of us can prove that the cure would/wouldn't work is what I was getting at, but I see that we have to spell that out for some users.

That's the point though, I was countering that you think it's 100% a sure thing because "They said they will so they will" which is...one of the most shaky ass arguments I've ever seen for a story. But sure, keep trying to say I'm not bringing anything to the table as you deflect when I literally spell out the definition of Retcon and explain the ways it makes it seem as such.

There is no way of knowing they could have made a cure. There is no way of knowing they couldn't. That's why using the argument of "They were going to save humanity" is a red herring because there's no confirmation of it being possible in the narrative, just that they know how it works (i.e. fungal infection that stops the other infections from spreading/growing/etc).

You're missing the entire point of the argument for some faux internet gotcha and that's why this is a moot point.

This is about the 4th reply and still no proof from the actual game. I can bring up quotes that they're going to make a cure, you can't bring up anything that tells us otherwise, which means your argument is based on nothing.

It's hard for you to accept so you just try to force an alternate explanation in which the writers did not intend. If your theories were correct, then they would imply it in the story.... but they never did. Telling me it wasn't 100% isn't going to work, but does work is showing you proof that that's what was written and that's what the characters believe either no other alternative.

You're wasting my time.

 

[SLB1904]

There's a bigger retcon in the game than the nobody doctor in TLUO1 suddenly having vengeful family. Ellie's attitude from not knowing that death could be a possibility to being pissed at Joel that he stopped her death from happening, somehow implying that Joel should've known she would've wanted to die without ever saying good bye to him.

Literally one of the theories for the sequel was marlene family member would come for Joel's ass. Why some of you are acting is such unbelievable thing?

 

[Ulysses 31]

Did ellie look happy when joel lie to her at the end? She clearly was ready for whatever would come to her. She's not stupid.

You know everything that happens in the game was the writers intentions right?

Of course she isn't happy that Joel's keeping secrets from her but the game ends before we see the ramifications. Unless the writers clarify what Ellie would've done if she knew all the facts what happened at that hospital, the way she behaves in TLUO1 don't lead me to believe Ellie would've been OK parting ways with Joel like that.

 

[Bryank75]

Abbey was right to kill Joel.....

because he ruined her sheltered life as the daughter of a high ranking member of a paramilitary organization. Not only that, the daughter of a DOCTOR!!! (As we know doctors are more important than everyone else)

He ruined her days of strolling through an old zoo and helping zebras and her carefree flirtations with Owen, while being protected by a private militia.

Of course Jerry was within his rights to put Ellie to death, she was a nobody and no-one would miss her, while his name would go down in history as the savior of humanity and Abby would be the daughter of the savior.

How nice it would have been.

 

[SLB1904]

And you still call what I posted 'assumption'? Dude, just don't force me to post youtube cutscenes of the game only to prove otherwise.

To prove what? Why are you being so vague?
Its literally the main character (joel) motivation. Deliver ellie and he gets the guns from Marlene.

 

[Bit_Reactor]

This is about the 4th reply and still no proof from the actual game. I can bring up quotes that they're going to make a cure, you can't bring up anything that tells us otherwise, which means your argument is based on nothing.

It's hard for you to accept so you just try to force an alternate explanation in which the writers did not intend. If your theories were correct, then they would imply it in the story.... but they never did. Telling me it wasn't 100% isn't going to work, but does work is showing you proof that that's what was written and that's what the characters believe either no other alternative.

You're wasting my time.

"April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients."

Just because they can see how it works does not = a cure. And just because they MIGHT be able to make a cure, and because a character says a thing, does not make it so. This is basic story logic. A character can say many things and be ill informed and/or incorrect.

This also goes with the basic logic of "non video game" information of the mutation already, which shows that there's a high chance that if a vaccine WERE made the cordyceps could once again mutate again if it was actually being treated "realistically" due to the unique structures of the brain and DNA.

This also ignores that the "cure" would only be a Vaccine, meaning people just wouldn't turn when they're bit, which as I've repeated a dozen times, is not reinforced in the story of TLOU2 as MOST of the drama/tension/death is all driven from human on human action, not zombie bites. Thus the "Cure/vaccine" being an irrelevant plot line in the sequel.

Again, this "cure" does not have any bearing on the plot of TLOU2. ONLY Joel's killing of the doctors does. I've never seen someone not grasp an argument and discussion after so many replies. Please...seek help

 

[DForce]

Literally one of the theories for the sequel was marlene family member would come for Joel's ass. Why some of you are acting is such unbelievable thing?

This guy will run in circles.

I discuss the story with him months ago and he said how could Yara make it there in time to save Abby. I told him Tommy had the direct path to the building shut off because he was sniping from the bridge, which gave Yara a direct path to the building. He tries to say that the stairs to the building were too coinvent and Yara would be worried about getting hit by a stray bullet while her and Tommy were shooting at each other inside. lol

 

[Ulysses 31]

Literally one of the theories for the sequel was marlene family member would come for Joel's ass. Why some of you are acting is such unbelievable thing?

Listen to what Marlene says in TLOU1, "It's what she would've wanted." This shows that they never asked for Ellie's opinion at the hospital. The writers could've added a part that Marlene discussed this with Ellie in the past to make Joel's choice seem more selfish but they didn't.

 

[Fake]

To prove what?

Lack of resource? Ammo trafic? Human killng others human? Human eating another human? Fireflies the 'only salvation'?

Pick one if you missed my post.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

Will watch later however Joel did everything wrong, was a selfish character, used his "daughter" in Ellie to pad his emotions which he never really got over and continued to lie to Ellie until she gave him an ultimatum of leaving if he lied or staying if he told the truth and even when he told the trurh he did it for selfish reasons because he wanted to be by her still.

Ill have more after I watched the video tonight

 

[SLB1904]

Listen to what Marlene says in TLOU1, "It's what she would've wanted." This shows that they never asked for Ellie's opinion at the hospital. The writers could've added a part that Marlene discussed this with Ellie in the past to make Joel's choice seem more selfish but they didn't.

That's that really matter? Everyone is a piece of shit in this world. Stop judging the game like they have some kind of morality. They dont give a shit about what ellie or joel think. Or what happen to them for that matter. They are strangers a means to a end

Put yourself in their shoes.

 

[DForce]

"April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients."

Just because they can see how it works does not = a cure. And just because they MIGHT be able to make a cure, and because a character says a thing, does not make it so. This is basic story logic. A character can say many things and be ill informed and/or incorrect.

This also goes with the basic logic of "non video game" information of the mutation already, which shows that there's a high chance that if a vaccine WERE made the cordyceps could once again mutate again if it was actually being treated "realistically" due to the unique structures of the brain and DNA.

This also ignores that the "cure" would only be a Vaccine, meaning people just wouldn't turn when they're bit, which as I've repeated a dozen times, is not reinforced in the story of TLOU2 as MOST of the drama/tension/death is all driven from human on human action, not zombie bites. Thus the "Cure/vaccine" being an irrelevant plot line in the sequel.

I've never seen someone not grasp and argument and discussion after so many replies. Please...seek help

You left out this part for a reason.

We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain.

Once again, you're wasting my time by injecting your own interpretation into a game which was perfectly explained to us in the first game. I don't grasp your post because it's filled with nonsense. You can't force your argument on anyone that's based on nothing. But you just attempted to take a recording from the first game out of context to"prove" your point which failed. This means you have nothing. I'm done.

 

[Ulysses 31]

This guy will run in circles.

I discuss the story with him months ago and he said how could Yara make it there in time to save Abby. I told him Tommy had the direct path to the building shut off because he was sniping from the bridge, which gave Yara a direct path to the building. He tries to say that the stairs to the building were too coinvent and Yara would be worried about getting hit by a stray bullet while her and Tommy were shooting at each other inside. lol

My main issue with Yara is that she wouldn't had time to get there so quick, going towards a firefight with just a knife, if there was a throwaway line that she knew the area very well then it would've made the rescue more believable.

She doesn't know the status of the fight and she would need to rely on stealth, which would limit your movement speed, once inside the building.

 

[SLB1904]

Lack of resource? Ammo trafic? Human killng others human? Human eating another human? Fireflies the 'only salvation'?

Pick one if you missed my post.

Good lord.
The fireflies are trying to find the cure. That's their goal. Their motivation. Ellie was a tool for their goal that's it. If their are delusional to think they can save the world that's on them. I'd not for you to decide. Joel just happens to be there to deliver ellie.

Do you get it now

 

[Bit_Reactor]

You left out this part for a reason.



Once again, you're wasting my time by injecting your own interpretation into a game which was perfectly explained to us in the first game. I don't grasp your post because it's filled with nonsense. You can't force your argument on anyone that's based on nothing. But you just attempted to take a recording from the first game out of context to"prove" your point which failed. This means you have nothing. I'm done.

That part does literally nothing to rebute my point.

To reiterate one last time as this is becoming exhausting.

Say you stumble across a doctor. This doctor says he has a way to turn cancer into pudding. And all you have to do is trust that when he scoops out your brain he's going to find the secret to it when all of his other tests have not worked thus far.

Now pretend that Doctor wrote a note saying "THIS IS IT! I've found a way to reduce world hunger. I can turn all cancer into pudding and it will be a medical marvel. It will be the best thing ever"

Now let's say the doctor GETS the brain. What the doctor left out of these dialogues is that he doesn't know HOW to turn the tumors into pudding. He doesn't know how to cure it. He just knows he doesn't know how their immunity to cancer and how her brain turns it to pudding MAY work.

That doesn't = "I've cured cancer and will now make all tumors pudding"

It = "I might be able to do a thing if I cut open this brain even though I have nothing but theories to go off of."

You're arguing a sure 100% thing because a character said "I've done it!" with no actual proof that they know how to do it or that it WOULD work, and using it as a demonizing factor against another character when we have no certainty that this would pan out how you or the character in question thinks.

 

[Fake]

Good lord.
The fireflies are trying to find the cure. That's their goal. Their motivation. Ellie was a tool for their goal that's it. If their are delusional to think they can save the world that's on them. I'd not for you to decide. Joel just happens to be there to deliver ellie.

Do you get it now

Well, no shit Sherlock. Its like everyone here on the thread need to understand what you post, but you keep ignoring everybody else.

How this work, huh? Trying to find a cure in a world with all those problems I mention in my previous post, with BTW I was not even talking with you at that moment, but anw.

 

[DForce]

My main issue with Yara is that she wouldn't had time to get there so quick, going towards a firefight with just a knife, if there was a throwaway line that she knew the area very well then it would've made the rescue more believable.

She doesn't know the status of the fight and she would need to rely on stealth, which would limit your movement speed, once inside the building.

And it was a weak argument since people can hear gunshots. They can also determine if shots are being fired in and outside of a building if they're close. But you said, "wouldn't she be worried about being hit by a stray bullet while approaching the building?"

This is like saying, "How does Batman not know Joker isn't setting him up for a trap before he recused Harvey Dent?" or "How did Batman get there in time just before the building exploded?" You can do this with every single form of entertainment. Characters appear just in time to save others all the time, but clearly you only have an issue with this when it comes to TLOU.

 

[Jon Neu]

It's funny how most of the people trying to come up with some convoluted explanations of the "plot" while claiming that everybody else "just don't get it", are actually the people who didn't understand the game at all. I mean, even Cuckman has already explained the shit out of it's intentions with the game, but for some reason the most die hard fanboys of TLOU2 have this extremely weird habit of completely IGNORE what Cuckman says. They literally act as if all the things he has said don't exist so they can still pretend that the game is something is not.

She was already a monster.

“You’re going to have to do some horrible things to survive and to go on this journey of retribution,” co-director and writer Neil Druckmann tells The Post. “It doesn’t mean she’s a bad person.”

Ellie wasn't a monster at the start of the game by the internal logic of the people making the game. But she was becoming one when she started to hunt people down and torturing them to death while trying to find Abby. They even said that Ellie not killing Abby at the end, was Ellie saving her own soul and humanity (aka not becoming a monster deprived of any humanity).

That's the entire point of her journey, the entire point of this new angry Ellie: to show her descend into the "cycle of violence" and hate to ultimately "redeem" herself at the end by not killing Abby and metaphorically forgiving herself and Joel, which is not only utterly retarded, but also really poorly executed.

Not only the characters are incredibly uncharismatic -except you know, the one they kill at the start-, but the script is a mess and the themes and ideas are embodied in the most incongruent, edgy and choppiest way possible.

But hey, that retcon for the sake of a "shocking" ending that subverts your expectations is the best thing ever, I've never laughed so much. I was waiting for the Curb Your Enthusiasm credits to appear on the screen at any moment.

 

[Clear]

Re-read my post again. Slower this time.



Nobody is forced to like anything and thats I 100% agree with you, but unless you have be missing all the post the Director make about this game. Telling their own fanbase to seek mental help?

Who tha hell talk like that? Imagine people not liking the way Zelda franchise go and the Director tell you that.

Again, only if you missed all the hot takes he make on the twitter. If you wish, I can search all the 'tweets' he made against everyone who hated the plot.

Remember he calling the game magazine because he don't agree with the score?

Dig em out for me because all I remember was the one where he reused that Kurt Cobain quote about bigots not being welcome. Which naturally got translated into if you don't like my story, you are a bigot, homophobe, etc!

From my standpoint Druckmann's relationship with Anita Sarkeesian in the past made him a marked man from day#1 in the eyes of the committed anti-SJW brigade. So much stuff has been laid personally at his feet without a shred of proof by people with an axe to grind, and its still going on.

I think the nadir was mr HeelVsBabyface basically suggesting that Druckmann was personally orchestrating all the DMCA takedowns for people reporting on the leaks! Utterly batshit-insane stuff, especially when it was known from the start that Sony had an outside contractor in London handling it all.