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[SenjutsuSage]

You miss the point.

The final shader pass when using mesh shaders/VRS is more or less the same as when using primitive shaders - it is the steps before that differs.

The difference between the AMD implementation and the Sony implementation is the following (we do not know what solution is the most efficient yet):

AMD RDNA2 solution: Geometry Engine (not the same as the Sony one) generates the geometries of the environment that should go through the pipeline. The Mesh Shader/VRS functions allows the program to prioritise what parts of the geometry that should get extensive shading (focal/close areas in the final rasterised image) and what parts that can only get very simple shading (small objects/peripheral objects/ far away objects) as well as cull the parts of the 3D geometry that will not even be part of the final rasterised image to limit GPU work on these parts. On the parts that shader work is conducted on the primitive shader function play a key role.

Sony solution: The upgraded Geometry Engine generates the he geometries of the environment. Before this is passed down the GPU pipeline pieces of the geometry that will not be part of the final rasterised image are culled. Furthermore, priorities are applied to the geometry in terms of what is in the focal area, what is peripheral and what is small. This limited geometry set with priorities is then passed down the pipeline - and here primitive shaders play an important role.

The point of this is that these functions exist in both. In the AMD (and Nvidia) solution the whole geometry is passed down the pipe and culling and prioritisation happens in the pipeline. In the Sony solution this is done upfront in the geometry engine. The functionality is identical but the way to achieve it is different. The Sony solution is eerily similar to how the Unreal team talked about how they have changed the pipeline for UE5 where the geometry processing upfront drives the rest of the pipeline. It is a new way of thinking.

It will be very interesting to see how these different approaches perform vis-a-vis each other but to claim that the PS5 does not have state of the art hardware based culling and prioritisation of the rendering pipeline is 100% wrong. The open question is how these solutions will perform - both in 1st party titles and in 3rd party titles.

Don't know why you're calling it the Sony solution, because it isn't. It's the AMD solution, and it's already inside the RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT. Sony finalized their custom design earlier than Microsoft did, and so have an SoC that doesn't have all the same features that are in Xbox Series X|S. No VRS, no Mesh Shaders, and I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption there's no Sampler Feedback Streaming either. Definitely no ML acceleration. A Sony Engineer quite literally said as much.

 

[MonarchJT]

You know RDNA 2 has Primitive Shaders just like RDNA1... you have 2 Primitive Unit per Shader Engine.

And Mesh Shaders do tesselation too... all the path done before is being doing with Mesh Shaders but instead to have a single step to everything with Mesh Shaders you do most of shaders operations in one step (that includes tesselation and/or primitive shaders).

Anyway Mesh Shadding is too called Primitive Shadding.

and with a flick of the tail ethomaz saves the ps5)) .
lol.yes must be just the naming problem /s


that geometry engine if we continue a little longer it will also be able to do cold fusion.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

You know RDNA 2 has Primitive Shaders just like RDNA1... you have 2 Primitive Unit per Shader Engine.

And Mesh Shaders do tesselation too... all the path done before is being doing with Mesh Shaders but instead to have a single step to everything with Mesh Shaders you do most of shaders operations in one step (that includes tesselation and/or primitive shaders).

Anyway Mesh Shadding is too called Primitive Shadding.

You're confusing terms I suspect. I don't think for a second a primitive unit means the "Primitive Shaders" feature. And I'd say it's safe to assume a more advanced chip contains older features as well, but more advanced features like Mesh Shaders are present on Series X whereas they aren't on PS5. Series X has a fixed function tesselation unit also, but because it also has Mesh Shaders, tesselation can be handled by the more flexible and powerful Amplification Shaders feature. So things can be done the old fashion way, but Series X is pretty nicely decked out for the future.

 

[MonarchJT]

Don't know why you're calling it the Sony solution, because it isn't. It's the AMD solution, and it's already inside the RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT. Sony finalized their custom design earlier than Microsoft did, and so have an SoC that doesn't have all the same features that are in Xbox Series X|S. No VRS, no Mesh Shaders, and I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption there's no Sampler Feedback Streaming either. Definitely no ML acceleration. A Sony Engineer quite literally said as much.

it's clear that is like this. anyone with a little sense would understand. all beyond3d is saying this same thing.

 

[Clear]

and with a flick of the tail ethomaz saves the ps5)) .
lol.yes must be just the naming problem /s


that geometry engine if we continue a little longer it will also be able to do cold fusion.

So what is the geometry engine then? What functions does it offer?

 

[TLZ]

A thread about Nvidia vs AMD.

Yet it somehow devolved into SX vs PS5.

Muh Mesh Shaders.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

A thread about Nvidia vs AMD.

Yet it somehow devolved into SX vs PS5.

Muh Mesh Shaders.

This is with every thread though. You can literally compare honda vs toyota, and yet it'll still reap the same results on GAF. Console warriors, gonna console war. Watch how all of my posts will get the empathy emoji by Darius1987 from instagram. Worst console warrior of them all. Check my post in 11 hours.

 

[Clear]

A thread about Nvidia vs AMD.

Yet it somehow devolved into SX vs PS5.

Muh Mesh Shaders.

It is of some relevance insofar as the tests in the OP are both going through the same DX interface; that's the commonality not the actual hardware running the code.

And in all fairness, the door was opened to this in the 2nd post in the thread, where an assumption was made about functionality on SX based on naming conventions alone. Its like the PS5 APU chip isn't RDNA2 thing that raged for so long, just because it wasn't spelled out as part of the marketing the same people were assuming RDNA1... Despite the fact that the clocking of the chip basically demonstrated it was a RDNA2 part from the outset!

 

[ethomaz]

and with a flick of the tail ethomaz saves the ps5)) .
lol.yes must be just the naming problem /s


that geometry engine if we continue a little longer it will also be able to do cold fusion.

Wut? Did you have issues to read?

 

[MonarchJT]

So what is the geometry engine then? What functions does it offer?

in the geometry engine all the geometry data of the entire mesh (vertex ..edges ..faces) must be processed in the graphic pipeline sequentially ..before you continue your process
with the new mesh shader you can process in parallel entire little pieces of mesh (meshlet) with much more granular control and also the culling phase is faster as it is based on meshlets

 

[MonarchJT]

You know RDNA 2 has Primitive Shaders just like RDNA1... you have 2 Primitive Unit per Shader Engine.

And Mesh Shaders do tesselation too... all the path done before is being doing with Mesh Shaders but instead to have a single step to everything with Mesh Shaders you do most of shaders operations in one step (that includes tesselation and/or primitive shaders).

Anyway Mesh Shadding is too called Primitive Shadding.

In a Mesh Shadding pipeline all the operations and fixed functions described in the pic below are simplified to one step.

and you think that they two things are the same?

 

[3liteDragon]

Who told you the RDNA 1st gen Geometry Engine, which is also confirmed to have Primitive Shaders, isn't equal to the PS5's Primitive Shaders in terms of programmability? Sony has yet to suggest they are not in fact one and the same. It does have a far better chance of being used on PS5 than it ever did on PC, though, especially seeing as AMD decided to go with more advanced Mesh Shaders.

Someone who actually knows what they're talking about, LGamer2 is a tech ENTHUSIAST to say the least, he's followed by DF's Alex and NX Gamer as well.

I see the subject of Mesh Shades and Primitive Shaders is being brought up. RGT's leaks are interesting but let's put those aside for a second, LeviathanGamer2 who has a strong knowledge of the subject has made several tweets regarding them.

Don't know why you're calling it the Sony solution, because it isn't. It's the AMD solution, and it's already inside the RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT. Sony finalized their custom design earlier than Microsoft did, and so have an SoC that doesn't have all the same features that are in Xbox Series X|S. No VRS, no Mesh Shaders, and I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption there's no Sampler Feedback Streaming either. Definitely no ML acceleration. A Sony Engineer quite literally said as much.

PS5 Has VRS, Confirms Activision Lead Artist

Despite not having been officially acknowledged, PlayStation 5 will indeed be fully utilizing Variable Rate Shading (VRS) for next-generation games. In a

segmentnext.com

Principal Software Engineer on PS5.




Wired article from October 2019.

Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5

Now that the name is official, we've got more details about Sony's next-gen console—from the haptics-packed controller to UI improvements.

www.wired.com

"I could be really specific and talk about experimenting with ambient occlusion techniques, or the examination of ray-traced shadows," says Laura Miele, chief studio officer for EA. "More generally, we’re seeing the GPU be able to power machine learning for all sorts of really interesting advancements in the gameplay and other tools." Above all, Miele adds, it's the speed of everything that will define the next crop of consoles.

geordiemp made a thread based on this, showing patents filed by Cerny and a few engineers from Naughty Dog talking about their own custom primitive shading and VRS techniques for PS5. It was clear back then from your Twitter posts and it's clear as day now you have no clue what you're talking about or you're deliberately trolling. Just cause Sony doesn't use the same marketing name as MS for a feature they have in their console or just cause they went with their own custom solutions for certain stuff unlike MS, doesn't mean they're "missing" those features and they suddenly become "inferior" to Xbox's PC RDNA 2 implementations.

 

[Clear]

in the geometry engine all the geometry data of the entire mesh (vertex ..edges ..faces) must be processed in the graphic pipeline sequentially ..before you continue your process
with the new mesh shader you can process in parallel entire little pieces of mesh (meshlet) with much more granular control and also the culling phase is faster as it is based on meshlets

Source please, and that doesn't answer my question. You can't say "processed" without describing what processes are actually occurring! Are we talking culling, tesellation, transforms, batching, what? And what are the limits on combination per wavefront?

 

[Ascend]

A thread about Nvidia vs AMD.

Actually, it's a thread of mesh shaders on vs off.

PC and console fanboys are the same.

 

[ethomaz]

Someone who actually knows what they're talking about, LGamer2 is a tech ENTHUSIAST to say the least, he's followed by DF's Alex and NX Gamer as well.

PS5 Has VRS, Confirms Activision Lead Artist

Despite not having been officially acknowledged, PlayStation 5 will indeed be fully utilizing Variable Rate Shading (VRS) for next-generation games. In a

segmentnext.com

Principal Software Engineer on PS5.




Wired article from October 2019.

Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5

Now that the name is official, we've got more details about Sony's next-gen console—from the haptics-packed controller to UI improvements.

www.wired.com

geordiemp made a thread based on this, showing patents filed by Cerny and a few engineers from Naughty Dog talking about their own custom primitive shading and VRS techniques for PS5. It was clear back then from your Twitter posts and it's clear as day now you have no clue what you're talking about or you're deliberately trolling. Just cause Sony doesn't use the same marketing name as MS for a feature they have in their console or just cause they went with their own custom solutions for certain stuff unlike MS, doesn't mean they're "missing" those features and they suddenly become "inferior" to Xbox's PC RDNA 2 implementations.

Seems like Leviathan and me are on the same page... maybe I’m not that “wrong” like some believe here lol

There is a lot of nVidia docs explaining what happens when you enable Mesh/Primitive Shaders.

A better image representation of the Mash/Primitive Shaders pipeline:

 

[RoyBatty]

There is something wrong with these results... the off performance didn’t increased but the Mesh one increased.

There is nothing wrong with these results.

Note that AMD recommends using the 21.2.2 driver for Mesh Shader Feature Test and results from earlier drivers may be noticeably worse.

We do not know when AMD plans on releasing this driver, but we would assume that to be soon.

Source: https://steamcommunity.com/app/223850/discussions/0/5671690972168798553/

My test:

Spoiler

Before

After

The overall results are line with nVidia Turing.

• NVIDIA Ampere: 702%
• AMD RDNA2: 547%
• NVIDIA Turing (RTX): 409%
• NVIDIA Turing: 244%

RDNA2 is in the middle of Ampere and Turing.

AMD is an arch release behind nVidia even with a better silicon process.

Your results fixed:

• AMD RDNA2: 1762%
• NVIDIA Ampere: 702%
• NVIDIA Turing (RTX): 409%
• NVIDIA Turing: 244%

Ampere is in the middle of RDNA2 and Turing.

 

[John Wick]

It is supported on Nvidia Turing and Ampere hardware, and now RDNA2. It isn't supported for RDNA 1st gen that only supports the same primitive shaders that's inside the PS5 via the same Geometry Engine. Series X, meanwhile has a mesh shading geometry engine. The Playstation 5 does not support Mesh Shaders. It has something that works in a similar way, but simply doesn't go nearly as far, that's primitive shaders. (And no, I'm not saying PS5 is RDNA1, it's clearly a hybrid/custom design, but it's using the RDNA 1st gen geometry engine)

RedTechGaming:
The PS5 GPU differs slightly from the Xbox Series X implementation, as we have Mesh Shaders not included on the GPU along with Sampler Feedback. Sampler Feedback has its own type of solutions on the PS5, and while Sony has detailed decompression technology, including for textures (Sampler Feedback isn’t decompression tech), studios and tools for Sony do have their own texture streaming technology, but the discussion of this is quite complicated, and just like rest of this article, the goal is to go over the basics and then delve further into each subject in the future.
The absence of the missing Sampler Feedback functionality (which again, Sony removed on purpose) is likely the feature that Rosario, the Sony employee mentioned here, with the statement below.
“RDNA 2 is a commercial acronym to simplify the market, otherwise GPUs with completely random features would come out and it would be difficult for the average user to choose,” wrote Leonardi.
“For example, support for ray tracing is not present in any AMD GPU currently on the market. (…) The PlayStation 5 GPU is unique, it is not classifiable as RDNA 1, 2, 3 or 4.”
“It is based on RDNA 2, but it has more features and, I think, one less…”
Inplace of Mesh Shaders, Sony is using the hardware-based Geometry Engine which essentially is Sony’s version of Mesh Shader, but totally accelerated via their own hardware block.
The GPU uses Primitive Shaders to address the GPU, along they’re apparently more complicated and more advanced than the ones found in RDNA 1. These primitive shaders can issue geometry instructions a little like Mesh Shaders and offer extreme precision on the GPU. This allows extreme culling of triangles super early on in the rendering pipeline of the GPU. The GE can be left to govern itself, but to really maximize the performance out of the console you’ll want to program it.
I was told now by multiple sources that the Playstation 5’s Geometry Engine is going to be even more critical for developing titles for the PSVR2, due the nature of pushing higher frame rates for VR solutions, and back when I was first leaking information on the PS5 development kit, this was also in line with those leaks too.
The Geometry Engine functionality is part and parcel of the custom elements of RDNA 2 from Sony, and VRS can run with extreme precision on the GPU too. We’ve already seen patents for Foveated Rendering (here is one) for the PS5 and which is used for the eye-tracking of PSVR2, and this seemingly leverages the GE of the console. It specifically mentions in the patents the varying resolution of the images based upon a users gaze.
The Playstation 5’s Geometry Engine though is a double-edged sword, as to my understanding squeezing the most out of the console will be smartly using the GE of the PS5. Again, the GE can govern itself, but you’re leaving a lot of optimization on the table, and developers aren’t even close to fully using the GE to its maximum potential.
Supposedly, the Geometry Engine has been so far best shown off in the Unreal Engine 5 Lumen demo, where it was highly leveraged along with “Nanite” to control geometry.

 

[bitbydeath]

See, Cerny knows better than AMDs engineers.

I suppose you think NVIDIA is no match for AMD too.

 

[Dural]

I suppose you think NVIDIA is no match for AMD too.

You realize that AMD and Nvidia spend millions on R&D for their GPUs and Sony fanboys seem to think Cerny, who’s background is in software not hardware, came up with a better solution for mesh shaders for AMDs architecture.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Yesh we’re back to pre launch. Xboys really need some games to play, this whole PS5 is Stone Age RDNA is beyond pathetic at this point.

 

[MasterCornholio]

You realize that AMD and Nvidia spend millions on R&D for their GPUs and Sony fanboys seem to think Cerny, who’s background is in software not hardware, came up with a better solution for mesh shaders for AMDs architecture.

So PS5 is an outdated console?

I find that hard to believe to be honest.

 

[bitbydeath]

You realize that AMD and Nvidia spend millions on R&D for their GPUs and Sony fanboys seem to think Cerny, who’s background is in software not hardware, came up with a better solution for mesh shaders for AMDs architecture.

You realise that a team work on hardware and it’s not just one man right?

And it wouldn’t be the first time either, Mark Cerny mentioned in the road to PS5 how AMD have adopted their hardware advancements previously into their cards.

 

[iHaunter]

Good god AMD GPUs are a joke.

Also glad I didn't buy a new GPU either. 2080Ti for another year it is!

 

[skneogaf]

I'm still seeing replies that aren't seeing the updated and results that put the top 2 amd cards only just behind the nvidia cards.

Hopefully the table posted with false results gets updated as it is making particular people with negative amd comments.

 

[THE DUCK]

Can somebody explain, in simple layman's terms? Are we really going to see 400% returns on any of these platforms pc, xbox or ps5) vs what we see now? If true this woukd be staggering. Or are we going to see real world returns of 10-20% and nobody will care?

 

[SlimySnake]

Can somebody explain, in simple layman's terms? Are we really going to see 400% returns on any of these platforms pc, xbox or ps5) vs what we see now? If true this woukd be staggering. Or are we going to see real world returns of 10-20% and nobody will care?

I would think that the Game engines will need to switch to utilizing mesh shaders amd yes that will indeed allow them to get more out of these cards.

Those results look too good to be true but not unexpected if you watched some of the nvidia videos on mesh shaders..

 

[Elog]

You realize that AMD and Nvidia spend millions on R&D for their GPUs and Sony fanboys seem to think Cerny, who’s background is in software not hardware, came up with a better solution for mesh shaders for AMDs architecture.

I think you do not understand how these things work. AMD hardware engineers developed the Sony solution for Sony in accordance to the specifications that Sony gave. Very similar to the PS4 where features came to the AMD hardware solutions at a later date They have a very close collaboration since Sony is their biggest single customer over the last few years.

 

[Elog]

Don't know why you're calling it the Sony solution, because it isn't. It's the AMD solution, and it's already inside the RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT. Sony finalized their custom design earlier than Microsoft did, and so have an SoC that doesn't have all the same features that are in Xbox Series X|S. No VRS, no Mesh Shaders, and I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption there's no Sampler Feedback Streaming either. Definitely no ML acceleration. A Sony Engineer quite literally said as much.

We know this is not true so I am not sure why you peddle in lies.

Your argument is that a geometry engine is a geometry engine. A car is a car. A compute unit is a compute unit. There is no difference between a Porsche and a Skoda - they are both cars. Right...

The geometry engine in the PS5 is very different beast - it is the heart of the customisations that have been made to that GPU. To deny that is plain stupid.

Will it offer great new performance or is its fate to become a new PS3 cell processor story? That is the question.

 

[longdi]

Can somebody explain, in simple layman's terms? Are we really going to see 400% returns on any of these platforms pc, xbox or ps5) vs what we see now? If true this woukd be staggering. Or are we going to see real world returns of 10-20% and nobody will care?

an extra 10-20% gains just by using more efficient techniques is huge though. I and you will be happy if our PC gpu have such free gains via software updates.

 

[Hudo]

Congratulations to the engineers

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Someone explain, when will we see this in games, will it increase game fps by 500%, and most importantly, will it be a nice weapon in the console wars?

 

[demigod]

We know this is not true so I am not sure why you peddle in lies.

Your argument is that a geometry engine is a geometry engine. A car is a car. A compute unit is a compute unit. There is no difference between a Porsche and a Skoda - they are both cars. Right...

The geometry engine in the PS5 is very different beast - it is the heart of the customisations that have been made to that GPU. To deny that is plain stupid.

Will it offer great new performance or is its fate to become a new PS3 cell processor story? That is the question.

You guys are wasting your time with that clown. I don't know why the mods let him back after being permabanned. He'll just shit up threads again.

 

[Xyphie]

Can somebody explain, in simple layman's terms? Are we really going to see 400% returns on any of these platforms pc, xbox or ps5) vs what we see now? If true this woukd be staggering. Or are we going to see real world returns of 10-20% and nobody will care?

The scene is pretty much the best case scenario for mesh shaders with lots of identical objects partially obscuring each other. One can probably think of a scene in a game that will see big benefits, like a crowd of people in an open world game or whatever but it's not going to be a feature that will give ~5x multiple of performance without it.

 

[Elog]

You guys are wasting your time with that clown. I don't know why the mods let him back after being permabanned. He'll just shit up threads again.

Thanks - did not know the background. I started to wonder who he was - so many lies in a short sequence. Will stop responding.

 

[assurdum]

Nah, that's rubbish. PS5 supposedly has the RDNA3 implementation of a feature while missing major RDNA 2 features, even when they were directly asked to confirm their inclusion? Cut it out. PS5 is RDNA3 in its feature set, but then doesn't even have Mesh Shaders. Doesn't have Variable Rate Shading. This is like the time people said PS5 has VRS, but it's in the Geometry Engine, only to find out that AMD's implementation of VRS is actually in the ROPs, not in the Geometry Engine.

PS5 is missing major features that Xbox Series X|S. This has been more or less known for a while. It's why Microsoft said with such confidence Xbox Series X|S are the only consoles with full hardware support for all RDNA 2 features. PS5 is a capable piece of hardware, but is missing key features.

Oh God. If only people would stop to talk as MS PR marketing man and use the logic. Mesh shaders isn't it something impossible to have without the RDNA2 direct support. The only reason because Sony usen't it in the RDNA2 architecture, it's because it prefers a low API access (as VRS) with its GE than a generic one. It's not that complicate to grasp. If you don't see a similarity in the GE feature mentioned by Cerny (triangles replaced by shaders), probably you missed the point of tech as mesh shaders. And another particular: mesh shaders is exclusively tied to CUs number in the AMD profile. Cerny already said doesn't like too much higher CUs counts in a machine because they don't work well with subtriangles, that's why I suspect, not want to leave such operations just to the CUs (the exact opposite philosophy of AMD).
The "RDNA3" conjecture was born just because many developers have reported the GE inside the ps5 is so advanced than AMD could copy some features inside the next RDNA3 architecture. It's surely a stretch but not that impossible.

 

[Shodan09]

Yikes. Guess I'll sell my PS5 then.

 

[mitchman]

RX 6800XT before and after drivers update

Do you mean after and before, in that order or did performance go down?

 

[3liteDragon]

Someone explain, when will we see this in games, will it increase game fps by 500%, and most importantly, will it be a nice weapon in the console wars?

In 2022 or 2023, the idea is to not render geometry that's not in your frustum view (camera view) and increase performance every frame in the game. Meaning assets closest to you will ALWAYS be the highest quality assets WHILE you're maintaining a steady frame rate by saving on unnecessary compute power. Depending on how it's used by devs, if the feature is exploited well enough, you can have smooth LoD transitions happen every frame without the player even knowing, meaning you'll pretty much see no pop-in. DirectX12 Ultimate has this feature for Xbox and PC and PS5 has it's own primitive shading techniques and API, the feature's functionality is essentially the same, the main difference is in the implementations from Microsoft and Sony.

 

[Elog]

In 2022 or 2023, the idea is to not render geometry that's not in your frustum view (camera view) and increase performance every frame in the game. Meaning assets closest to you will ALWAYS be the highest quality assets WHILE you're maintaining a steady frame rate by saving on unnecessary compute power. Depending on how it's used by devs, if the feature is exploited well enough, you can have smooth LoD transitions happen every frame without the player even knowing, meaning you'll pretty much see no pop-in. DirectX12 Ultimate has this feature for Xbox and PC and PS5 has it's own primitive shading techniques and API, the feature's functionality is essentially the same, the main difference is in the implementations from Microsoft and Sony.

And there is a good logic to why these two approaches exist. The hardware implementation of mesh shaders/VRS in both Nvidia and AMD cards work with current graphical pipelines, i.e. it is fairly straight forward to utilise a significant portion of these advantages with existing graphical engines to give performance boosts. Or in other words - in the standard benchmark suites that the community uses to determine what card to buy you can see uplifts.

The PS5 solution requires the graphical engines to be modified to be utilised. The Sony team obviously think that the advantages are greater this way once the code is in place (are they right?) since they will see limited performance boosts in older titles short-term.

If the chats I have had with developers are correct, I expect a boost in some older title performances on the XSX/S and PC that will not be mimicked on the PS5 since the hardware features can be patched on XSX/S and PC but not easily on the PS5.

Then the key question is how these systems compare once engines are released that take full advantage (or at least close to) of the new hardware features across the board such as BF6 with the new Frostbite iteration or the first UE5 game. Interesting times

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

There is nothing wrong with these results.



Source: https://steamcommunity.com/app/223850/discussions/0/5671690972168798553/

My test:

Spoiler

Before

After

Your results fixed:

• AMD RDNA2: 1762%
• NVIDIA Ampere: 702%
• NVIDIA Turing (RTX): 409%
• NVIDIA Turing: 244%

Ampere is in the middle of RDNA2 and Turing.

It looks like the enabled was fixed in the drivers but still doesn't explain the disabled results. How is it behind bottom tier GPUs with it disabled.
Edit
And why is a 2060 ahead of A 3090 in the disabled results?

 

[Ascend]

It looks like the enabled was fixed in the drivers but still doesn't explain the disabled results. How is it behind bottom tier GPUs with it disabled.
Edit
And why is a 2060 ahead of A 3090 in the disabled results?

It means that the modern GPUs are focusing more on the newer way of doing things rather than the old way. Why would you make something ultra fast if you don't expect it to be used as much anymore? Besides, what they have available is plenty fast enough for the old method already.

 

[assurdum]

The PS5 solution requires the graphical engines to be modified to be utilised.

It's always like this on playstation platform. PS5 has its own SDK eh.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

It means that the modern GPUs are focusing more on the newer way of doing things rather than the old way. Why would you make something ultra fast if you don't expect it to be used as much anymore? Besides, what they have available is plenty fast enough for the old method already.

Yeah I doubt it. Quite certain with a few driver updates and benchmark updates the results are gonna change quite drastically.

 

[Elog]

Like all the rest. PS5 has its own SDK eh.

The point is that it is not a SDK issue but how the engine processes geometry and textures. That requires reengineering of the graphical engine to be utilized. You can run the old engine through the new SDK but then you are not using the new functionalities. The same goes for the PS5 I/O block - it can be utilized as a standard I/O block without using the significant advantages it allows but to use it fully requires a fairly significant change in how the engine handles textures etc. That is why I believe that you will see the mesh shader support on the PC and XSX/S side give advantages in older titles that you most likely won't see on the PS5 (not worth the effort to do all that recoding). Might be wrong ofc but that is my prediction.

 

[assurdum]

The point is that it is not a SDK issue but how the engine processes geometry and textures. That requires reengineering of the graphical engine to be utilized. You can run the old engine through the new SDK but then you are not using the new functionalities. The same goes for the PS5 I/O block - it can be utilized as a standard I/O block without using the significant advantages it allows but to use it fully requires a fairly significant change in how the engine handles textures etc. That is why I believe that you will see the mesh shader support on the PC and XSX/S side give advantages in older titles that you most likely won't see on the PS5 (not worth the effort to do all that recoding). Might be wrong ofc but that is my prediction.

I don't follow you. From what I have understood isn't it exactly that complicated to use GE and its function. Maybe will requires a bit more work but doesn't mean developers won't use it because it's not multiplat supported, especially if the final result should give even better performance. All said it's not exactly clear if the transposition between a multiplat code feature into the ps5 version will require to be rewritten from the beginning. Sound bizzarre to me .

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Cerny, who’s background is in software not hardware, came up with a better solution for mesh shaders for AMDs architecture.

I think that you are on to something there, Cerny is a hack.

 

[Elog]

I don't follow you. From what I have understood isn't it exactly that complicated to use GE and its function. Maybe will requires a bit more work but doesn't mean developers won't use it because it's not multiplat supported, especially if the final result should give even better performance.

The way it has been presented to me (verbally and not in depth at all), the new GE can be used on auto pilot. The same with the new I/O block. However, to fully utilize the functionalities with regard to culling, geometry prioritization and texture handling with the new GE and I/O blocks, it will requires quite significant coding changes to the fundamental engine code. This differs from the mesh shader and VRS support in e.g. AMD cards and the XSX/S where it can be utilized with a much smaller coding effort under the umbrella of DirectX12. He made it sound as if the coding effort for the PS5 was slightly prohibitive for older titles but the same is not true on the PC/XSX side.

Might be wrong ofc.

 

[assurdum]

The way it has been presented to me (verbally and not in depth at all), the new GE can be used on auto pilot. The same with the new I/O block. However, to fully utilize the functionalities with regard to culling, geometry prioritization and texture handling with the new GE and I/O blocks, it will requires quite significant coding changes to the fundamental engine code. This differs from the mesh shader and VRS support in e.g. AMD cards and the XSX/S where it can be utilized with a much smaller coding effort under the umbrella of DirectX12. He made it sound as if the coding effort for the PS5 was slightly prohibitive for older titles but the same is not true on the PC/XSX side.

Might be wrong ofc.

If I remember right Cerny said it is easy to develop on ps5 but master it requires more job. Master it doesn't means you don't have full access to such graphic features without rewritten everything, would be tragic if it is the case. I give you the point initially could be a bit more complicate on ps5 but when developers will start to be more friendly with the hardware, shouldn't be that intricate to use in such circumstances. Ironically, it seems Dirt 5 uses all those features on series X but ps5 is still a bit ahead visually without.

 

[Elog]

If I remember right Cerny said it is easy to develop on ps5 but master it requires more job. Master it doesn't means you don't have full access to such features. I give you the point initially is a bit more complicate but when developers are more friendly with the ps5 hardware, shouldn't be that intricate to use

Completely agree with that. The question is if they will put in the effort to utilize these things in an old title or not. New ones? Ofc!

 

[assurdum]

Completely agree with that. The question is if they will put in the effort to utilize these things in an old title or not. New ones? Ofc!

Old titles as? You mean backward?