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[Evangelion Unit-01]

It is an unintelligent and lazy way of communicating that you like or dislike something. They are made up political terms that have typically been used to stir up support for or generate anger towards an entity or policy.

Phil Spencer and Jim Ryan's jobs are to maximize return to the shareholders.

"Pro-consumer" back compat, smart delivery, PS+ Collection? Maximize return to shareholders.
"Anti-consumer" Spider-Man Remaster, Gold req for F2P? Maximize return to shareholders.

Feedback can lead to change-complain about the Spider-Man situation, Halo's mismanagement, and $70 games. Be vocal and don't purchase things that you disagree with but don't pretend like either company is some hero or villain protecting or fighting against consumers' interests-it is lazy.

Sony and Microsoft are attempting to add value to their platforms such that you will exchange money for their goods and services.

If I wanted to get political here I might even ask if the people that believe the "pro/anti-consumer" story believe that markets work or if they believe in economic fairy tales too...

 

[Ailike]

Look at this anti-consumer post here. You should be ashamed.

 

[The_Mike]

Not really. If someone treats their customers well, it's pro consumer.

If someone is Arrogant and don't give a fuck its anti consumer.

 

[lastmessiah]

Yeah I find all this talk about being "anti-consumer" hilarious. It smells like something that probably originated in that cesspit called Reddit.

What the fuck does it even mean? Every business is technically "anti-consumer" since they are trying to extract something from you. But at the same time you can say they are "pro-consumer" because they (usually) give you something in return.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

They're made up talking points to allow some posters to get short-term "wins" in a console war, while damaging all prospects of meaningful conversations long-term.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Not really. If someone treats their customers well, it's pro consumer.

If someone is Arrogant and don't give a fuck its anti consumer.

You don't get to choose what people use as factors when they engage in a business transaction.

What the fuck does it even mean? Every business is technically "anti-consumer" since they are trying to extract something from you.

That is very reductive of how business people see themselves.

 

[-Arcadia-]

I tend to agree.

I think these companies are rarely, if ever, pro-consumer. All of it kicks back into market share, profit, etc. Thinking otherwise is a fundamental misinterpretation of reality.

Boiling it down to a more simple concept. Companies will do whatever you let them get away with, and they have every right to, as financially self-interested entities. Even the most artistic entertainment company, still has a bottom line to look out for.

Perhaps the terms pro-consumer and anti-consumer, or some variants, should be applied to the customers themselves, and their frequent habits of letting things get worse and worse, as long as they have their entertainment. I think that's where the real problem lies. There's zero pushback for brainlets (warriors and otherwise) that keep pushing us into newer, worse paradigms.

Instead of shrugging at the guy spending his life savings on Fifa, maybe call him out for the retard he is.

 

[Mmnow]

Language is about communication. Those words communicate a specific point, which is that a business decision is either generous or ungenerous to those it affects.

Forcing you to pay $10 to park at a supermarket, where you intend to spend lots of money, and then saying "you leave your car at your own risk"? That's anti-consumer.

You would need to have the thinnest of skin for this to upset you in any way.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Found Jim Ryan's GAF account.

 

[JoeDanny]

What GAF has taught me is that exclusives and moneyhatting are great until the bad guys start to do it. Then it becomes Big Brother ruining my capitalism.

 

[ZippyTheOtter]

I'm pretty sure those are under the greater umbrella of the term "Business Ethics", which you can't get out of business school without at least one course on.

 

[mikefrails]

I had an entire section of international business that dealt with shifting your values depending on where and who you’re selling to.

 

[JackNightblade]

Yeah I find all this talk about being "anti-consumer" hilarious. It smells like something that probably originated in that cesspit called Reddit.

What the fuck does it even mean? Every business is technically "anti-consumer" since they are trying to extract something from you. But at the same time you can say they are "pro-consumer" because they (usually) give you something in return.

extract something that you are willing to give. thats capitalism. consensual transactions.

anti-consumer is certainly a thing. When apple gets caught forcing performance hits to older phones to get people to upgrade then thats anti-consumer.

to say theres “good will” with companies then by contrast that means “anti-consumer” is also real.

Sony has the anti consumer stigma and thats why we have people claiming its a mythical concept

 

[Andodalf]

Exactly OP, so when a company does end up doing things that benefit consumers, Us consumers should reward that behavior to reinforce it, instead of the anti consumer actions.

 

[jaysius]

This is why console wars are simply a mental illness which companies exploit for their own gains. The user gains nothing from console warring, simply added anxiety. The gamer is a CONSUMER not someone that benefits from the corporations gains.

 

[Warnen]

This is why console wars are simply a mental illness which companies exploit for their own gains. The user gains nothing from console warring, simply added anxiety. The gamer is a CONSUMER not someone that benefits from the corporations gains.

IDK the salty threads this week were pure enjoyment to read

 

[lastmessiah]

extract something that you are willing to give. thats capitalism. consensual transactions.

anti-consumer is certainly a thing. When apple gets caught forcing performance hits to older phones to get people to upgrade then thats anti-consumer.

to say theres “good will” with companies then by contrast that means “anti-consumer” is also real.

Sony has the anti consumer stigma and thats why we have people claiming its a mythical concept

Dude I know Sony is a scumbag company, I have never defended them. I just think the "anti-consumer" terminology is forced and awkward and smacks of something a bunch of angry nerds came up with.

 

[Vawn]

Not really. If someone treats their customers well, it's pro consumer.

If someone is Arrogant and don't give a fuck its anti consumer.

What is stupid is when someone calls Sony or Microsoft "anti-consumer" for not doing things that benefit the owners of only the competition's hardware.

 

[The_Mike]

You don't get to choose what people use as factors when they engage in a business transaction.

That is very reductive of how business people see themselves.

Well for once. I think I know what's most pro consumer 60 vs 80 euro.
Second. Giving free upgrades are pro consumer.
Third upgrading old gen games with free graphic updates are pro consumer.

 

[Alebrije]

Basically none company is Pro Consumer. Bussiness goal is profit no matter if sometimes they seem to care or give "gifs" to costumers.

 

[Birgitte2004-2]

Language is about communication. Those words communicate a specific point, which is that a business decision is either generous or ungenerous to those it affects.

Forcing you to pay $10 to park at a supermarket, where you intend to spend lots of money, and then saying "you leave your car at your own risk"? That's anti-consumer.

You would need to have the thinnest of skin for this to upset you in any way.

If right next to the 10$ supermarket is 5 supermarkets that are 20$ pay to park, with the same "leave your car at your own risk" signs, then the 10$ market is suddenly "pro-consumer".

These things are relative, which is why they aren't seriously meaningful terms to begin with.

 

[The Scrivener]

No, but if you look in a dictionary, under "Pro-Consumer", you'll see the entry "1. The Xbox series of consoles. Also, see 'Game Pass'."

(I jest, I jest.)

 

[Jigsaah]

It is an unintelligent and lazy way of communicating that you like or dislike something. They are made up political terms that have typically been used to stir up support for or generate anger towards an entity or policy.

Phil Spencer and Jim Ryan's jobs are to maximize return to the shareholders.

"Pro-consumer" back compat, smart delivery, PS+ Collection? Maximize return to shareholders.
"Anti-consumer" Spider-Man Remaster, Gold req for F2P? Maximize return to shareholders.

Feedback can lead to change-complain about the Spider-Man situation, Halo's mismanagement, and $70 games. Be vocal and don't purchase things that you disagree with but don't pretend like either company is some hero or villain protecting or fighting against consumers' interests-it is lazy.

Sony and Microsoft are attempting to add value to their platforms such that you will exchange money for their goods and services.

If I wanted to get political here I might even ask if the people that believe the "pro/anti-consumer" story believe that markets work or if they believe in economic fairy tales too...

Why does it matter whether or not these concepts are listed in a textbook about business. Most of what you learn about business comes from experience and nuances in business are what brought about these concepts. Therefore, its actually more lazy to rely on what you're spoon fed from scholastic sources rather than acquiring knowledge through practical real life experiences.

 

[Mmnow]

If right next to the 10$ supermarket is 5 supermarkets that are 20$ pay to park, with the same "leave your car at your own risk" signs, then the 10$ market is suddenly "pro-consumer".

These things are relative, which is why they aren't seriously meaningful terms to begin with.

Blue is relative. Good pie is relative. Life, amazingly, is relative.

Do you think that unless we can all agree exactly what a word means and what it applies to, that the word shouldn't exist? You can't actually be willing to play along with this argument just to vaguely defend Sony, right?

 

[Evangelion Unit-01]

I'm pretty sure those are under the greater umbrella of the term "Business Ethics", which you can't get out of business school without at least one course on.

Not really-my memory of that class is filled with HR, environmental, and financial regulations. There is a big difference between doing something illegal or unethical and consumer liking or disliking the product you are offering.

I had an entire section of international business that dealt with shifting your values depending on where and who you’re selling to.

Market segmentation and value proposition. Thats my point-if someone doesn't like the value proposition of a product that doesn't make the company "anti-consumer" it just means the company's value proposition doesn't line up with your preferences. Maybe they need to change it or maybe it won't matter to the rest of the market and it'll be a profitable decision for the company.

 

[Danjin44]

Their job is to make money and this is true about all business. They are not your friend and we are not theirs.

 

[Fuz]

Business textbooks are literally the devil, anyway.

 

[johntown]

It is an unintelligent and lazy way of communicating that you like or dislike something. They are made up political terms that have typically been used to stir up support for or generate anger towards an entity or policy.

Phil Spencer and Jim Ryan's jobs are to maximize return to the shareholders.

"Pro-consumer" back compat, smart delivery, PS+ Collection? Maximize return to shareholders.
"Anti-consumer" Spider-Man Remaster, Gold req for F2P? Maximize return to shareholders.

Feedback can lead to change-complain about the Spider-Man situation, Halo's mismanagement, and $70 games. Be vocal and don't purchase things that you disagree with but don't pretend like either company is some hero or villain protecting or fighting against consumers' interests-it is lazy.

Sony and Microsoft are attempting to add value to their platforms such that you will exchange money for their goods and services.

If I wanted to get political here I might even ask if the people that believe the "pro/anti-consumer" story believe that markets work or if they believe in economic fairy tales too...

Anti Consumerism Books

Books shelved as anti-consumerism: The High Price of Materialism by Tim Kasser, Born to Buy: The Commercialized Child and the New Consumer Culture by Jul...

www.goodreads.com

What do you define as a business textbook?

 

[#Phonepunk#]

yes im tired of seeing these words.

imo it's a symptom of the socialist madness going around the internet. people think companies have morals. they want ethical consumption. it's the reason you see BLM on everything right now.

people worship these companies as ethical beings, rather than the brainless money machines they are.

 

[FloatingIslands]

Yeah, they're not there, but I think that they are closely related to perception of value which it's in those books.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Anything can be pro-consumer if you are a literal boot licker though.

 

[Nikana]

The literal definition of the words that make up anti consumer would be:

Against a person who purchases goods and services for personal use.

So if they were against the consumer they wouldn't make products to buy.

Literally makes no sense in the way it's used by everyone I've ever seen try to use it.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

Yes, I'm sure my Business Ethics course in college had NO mentions of the FTC and consumer protection bureau

Bureau of Consumer Protection

The FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection stops unfair, deceptive and fraudulent business practices by collecting reports from consumers and conducting investigations, suing companies and people that

www.ftc.gov

 

[unintelligent orange]

It is an unintelligent and lazy way of communicating that you like or dislike something. They are made up political terms that have typically been used to stir up support for or generate anger towards an entity or policy.

Phil Spencer and Jim Ryan's jobs are to maximize return to the shareholders.

"Pro-consumer" back compat, smart delivery, PS+ Collection? Maximize return to shareholders.
"Anti-consumer" Spider-Man Remaster, Gold req for F2P? Maximize return to shareholders.

Feedback can lead to change-complain about the Spider-Man situation, Halo's mismanagement, and $70 games. Be vocal and don't purchase things that you disagree with but don't pretend like either company is some hero or villain protecting or fighting against consumers' interests-it is lazy.

Sony and Microsoft are attempting to add value to their platforms such that you will exchange money for their goods and services.

If I wanted to get political here I might even ask if the people that believe the "pro/anti-consumer" story believe that markets work or if they believe in economic fairy tales too...

The average person isnt a business man. You wont find this shit in business textbooks because thats not how business people be thinking about it.

People are more genuine than a cold textbook. They know what they know.

 

[Evangelion Unit-01]

Why does it matter whether or not these concepts are listed in a textbook about business. Most of what you learn about business comes from experience and nuances in business are what brought about these concepts. Therefore, its actually more lazy to rely on what you're spoon fed from scholastic sources rather than acquiring knowledge through practical real life experiences.

Can I choose both?

My point is that you disliking or liking a value proposition or product does not make a company "pro or anti consumer". Complain about it but realize that both the policies you like and dislike are intended maximize income.

You can't actually be willing to play along with this argument just to vaguely defend Sony, right?

Xbox is my main console.

Anti Consumerism Books

Books shelved as anti-consumerism: The High Price of Materialism by Tim Kasser, Born to Buy: The Commercialized Child and the New Consumer Culture by Jul...

www.goodreads.com

What do you define as a business textbook?

Anti-Consumerism is not what people are talking about when they say "anti-consumer". Anti-consumerism is a largely anti-capitalist ideology that is critical of the idea of consumption and production for profit; closely aligned with ideas about materialism. A separate topic entirely.

Yes, I'm sure my Business Ethics course in college had NO mentions of the FTC and consumer protection bureau

Bureau of Consumer Protection

The FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection stops unfair, deceptive and fraudulent business practices by collecting reports from consumers and conducting investigations, suing companies and people that

www.ftc.gov

Sure, you have federal bodies that regulate industry w/ the intention of enforcing ethics and preventing fraud. They don't exist to stop a company from producing a value proposition that is unappealing to customers.

 

[Rentahamster]

It is an unintelligent and lazy way of communicating that you like or dislike something. They are made up political terms that have typically been used to stir up support for or generate anger towards an entity or policy.

Phil Spencer and Jim Ryan's jobs are to maximize return to the shareholders.

"Pro-consumer" back compat, smart delivery, PS+ Collection? Maximize return to shareholders.
"Anti-consumer" Spider-Man Remaster, Gold req for F2P? Maximize return to shareholders.

Feedback can lead to change-complain about the Spider-Man situation, Halo's mismanagement, and $70 games. Be vocal and don't purchase things that you disagree with but don't pretend like either company is some hero or villain protecting or fighting against consumers' interests-it is lazy.

Sony and Microsoft are attempting to add value to their platforms such that you will exchange money for their goods and services.

If I wanted to get political here I might even ask if the people that believe the "pro/anti-consumer" story believe that markets work or if they believe in economic fairy tales too...

Of course you can.

There are scenarios where practices that can be categorized as "pro-consumer" or "anti-consumer" can be used to boost revenue and maximize profits. These are all factors that are involved with marketing and public perception, especially when government regulators get involved.

Why you gotta make a claim that is so easy to prove false?

https://www.google.com/search?lr=lang_en&tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22pro-consumer%22+intitle:marketing&tbs=,bkt:b&num=20

https://www.google.com/search?num=20&lr=lang_en&tbs=bkt%3Ab%2Clr%3Alang_1en&tbm=bks&sxsrf=ALeKk02dZmB8yoQNZk40XiC54PY-2GVIvw%3A1601058824748&ei=BThuX7GwEuT19AOTqamoCw&q=%22anti-consumer%22+intitle%3Amarketing&oq=%22anti-consumer%22+intitle%3Amarketing&gs_l=psy-ab.3...773464.773787.0.774039.4.4.0.0.0.0.127.127.0j1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..3.0.0....0.lAhY-r0hQLY

 

[Danjin44]

What I find funny is people call "Anti-costumer" when Sony get exclusive deal for FF16 or Microsoft buys Bethesda. Since when Sony has care about Xbox users or MS has to care about Playstation users?

 

[Redlancet]

Of course you can.

There are scenarios where practices that can be categorized as "pro-consumer" or "anti-consumer" can be used to boost revenue and maximize profits. These are all factors that are involved with marketing and public perception, especially when government regulators get involved.

Why you gotta make a claim that is so easy to prove false?

https://www.google.com/search?lr=lang_en&tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22pro-consumer%22+intitle:marketing&tbs=,bkt:b&num=20

https://www.google.com/search?num=20&lr=lang_en&tbs=bkt%3Ab%2Clr%3Alang_1en&tbm=bks&sxsrf=ALeKk02dZmB8yoQNZk40XiC54PY-2GVIvw%3A1601058824748&ei=BThuX7GwEuT19AOTqamoCw&q=%22anti-consumer%22+intitle%3Amarketing&oq=%22anti-consumer%22+intitle%3Amarketing&gs_l=psy-ab.3...773464.773787.0.774039.4.4.0.0.0.0.127.127.0j1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..3.0.0....0.lAhY-r0hQLY

This, i dont know what op is smoking

 

[Walter Matthau]

Yes. I'm pretty sure most here understand that behind every "pro-consumer" move is the invisible hand concept that everyone learns in their first economics lesson in grammar school. That doesn't stop "anti-consumer" moves like not allowing crossplay from being shitty.

People are just using a term to describe something that benefits or doesn't benefit the main consumers of these products. It's pretty straightforward.

 

[Voost Kain]

https://www.consumerinterests.org/assets/ACI/aci%20vol%209%20n%202%201997%20searchable%20opt.pdf

Lol poor OP.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

This, i dont know what op is smoking

It's not a matter of what the OP is smoking, but what is the OP to begin with?



Found this on his onlyfans, hopefully I'm not breaking the rules by posting paid content.

 

[Evangelion Unit-01]

Of course you can.

There are scenarios where practices that can be categorized as "pro-consumer" or "anti-consumer" can be used to boost revenue and maximize profits. These are all factors that are involved with marketing and public perception, especially when government regulators get involved.

Why you gotta make a claim that is so easy to prove false?

https://www.google.com/search?lr=lang_en&tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22pro-consumer%22+intitle:marketing&tbs=,bkt:b&num=20

https://www.google.com/search?num=20&lr=lang_en&tbs=bkt%3Ab%2Clr%3Alang_1en&tbm=bks&sxsrf=ALeKk02dZmB8yoQNZk40XiC54PY-2GVIvw%3A1601058824748&ei=BThuX7GwEuT19AOTqamoCw&q=%22anti-consumer%22+intitle%3Amarketing&oq=%22anti-consumer%22+intitle%3Amarketing&gs_l=psy-ab.3...773464.773787.0.774039.4.4.0.0.0.0.127.127.0j1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..3.0.0....0.lAhY-r0hQLY

I was totally expecting somebody to pull out some old "Principals of Business" textbook they had in the 80's when I created the thread. It's always the marketing textbooks...lol.

Jokes aside, you're right-the phrases do exist in a sense but not in the way that people are using them. "Pro/Anti Consumer" are largely made up political terms with implied morality that have bearing on policy but not on products themselves. A product is either a good or bad value proposition-thats it. When we add the perception of and imply morality on top of that value proposition thats when we venture into politics and end up with terms like "pro-consumer" and "anti-consumer"

It's not a matter of what the OP is smoking, but what is the OP to begin with?



Found this on his onlyfans, hopefully I'm not breaking the rules by posting paid content.

The bills don't pay themselves...

 

[SlicedBread3]

Language is about communication. Those words communicate a specific point, which is that a business decision is either generous or ungenerous to those it affects.

The problem is that the words have been over used to the point where they don't communicate anything of value now.

If people had stuck to using "anti-consumer" to referring to practices like misleading advertising, it would mean something when a company was called out for it.

But when it's used for every little thing that is a negative to consumers regardless of whether or not it's actually unfair (such as a company raising a price on a luxury product) it loses its impact.

Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Definitions and uses of words are constantly changing over time after all. Except people still use it with the emotionality of someone who's been treated unfairly.

It's not:

"Yeah Sony's game prices are more anti-consumer so I think I'll go with Microsoft"

It's usually

"FUCK YOU AND YOUR ANTI-CONSUMER BULLSHIT SONY"

or something along those lines.

Which is going to make it harder and harder to take seriously.

 

[Vawn]

Their job is to make money and this is true about all business. They are not your friend and we are not theirs.

And Kat doesn't care about you.

 

[Danjin44]

And Kat doesn't care about you.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

Anti-Consumerism is not what people are talking about when they say "anti-consumer". Anti-consumerism is a largely anti-capitalist ideology that is critical of the idea of consumption and production for profit; closely aligned with ideas about materialism. A separate topic entirely.

Sure, you have federal bodies that regulate industry w/ the intention of enforcing ethics and preventing fraud. They don't exist to stop a company from producing a value proposition that is unappealing to customers.

Agreed, in essence that people use it very widely to discuss business practices they don't agree with in general

The ideology and bureaus to investigate it actually DO exist

The FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection stops unfair, deceptive and fraudulent business practices by collecting complaints and conducting investigations

What constitutes as unfair is completely subjective (IE Apple v Epic case, no one is bitching about having to pay stocking fees in Walmart), so people do have a little bit of play with the anti-consumer vocalization, whether or not it's founded in anything logical

They are made up political terms that have typically been used to stir up support for or generate anger towards an entity or policy.

Anti-consumerism originated from criticism of consumption, starting with Thorstein Veblen, who, in the book The Theory of the Leisure Class: An Economic Study of Institutions (1899)

Anti-consumerism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TwiztidElf]

What? There are whole business subjects and textbooks dedicated to customer relations. lol.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

What? There are whole business subjects and textbooks dedicated to customer relations. lol.

Fuck me if you ever step on a Lucrative Account Manager's toes....

 

[PanzerAzel]

It is an unintelligent and lazy way of communicating that you like or dislike something. They are made up political terms that have typically been used to stir up support for or generate anger towards an entity or policy.

Phil Spencer and Jim Ryan's jobs are to maximize return to the shareholders.

"Pro-consumer" back compat, smart delivery, PS+ Collection? Maximize return to shareholders.
"Anti-consumer" Spider-Man Remaster, Gold req for F2P? Maximize return to shareholders.

Feedback can lead to change-complain about the Spider-Man situation, Halo's mismanagement, and $70 games. Be vocal and don't purchase things that you disagree with but don't pretend like either company is some hero or villain protecting or fighting against consumers' interests-it is lazy.

This might be true if you are looking solely at monetary gain and don’t view consumer goodwill as capital. I would think any smart business would take into consideration the mentality of its consumer base in believing their operations to be construed as “pro” or “anti” towards them. You don’t believe mindshare to be important to the shareholders?

Happy customers equal money and good faith, which translates directly into future support. If Spencer and Ryan are smart, they’ll understand that consumers are their bloodline, and the perception of pro/anti, the pump. It doesn’t need to be taught in business school because it’s common sense.

You can get away with fucking over customers only for so long before it’s going to be reflected in your bottom line.

 

[Rentahamster]

Jokes aside, you're right-the phrases do exist in a sense but not in the way that people are using them. "Pro/Anti Consumer" are largely made up political terms with implied morality that have bearing on policy but not on products themselves. A product is either a good or bad value proposition-thats it. When we add the perception of and imply morality on top of that value proposition thats when we venture into politics and end up with terms like "pro-consumer" and "anti-consumer"

Where are you getting morality from?

"A product is either a good or bad value proposition - that's it". Yup. That's what most people mean by "pro-consumer", "consumer-friendly", "anti-consumer", etc. Who's implying morality and who's inferring morality? You're overthinking this.

Definition of ANTI-CONSUMER

not favorable to consumers : improperly favoring the interests of businesses over the interests of consumers… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of anti-consumer

: not favorable to consumers : improperly favoring the interests of businesses over the interests of consumers
anti-consumer practices

First Known Use of anti-consumer
1936, in the meaning defined above

I suspect that this injection of politics and morality is more a product of your own interpretation, rather than the general zeitgeist.