• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

News In the US, The Last of Us Part II has outsold Miles Morales and Ghost of Tsushima

tassletine

Member
Oct 24, 2007
1,529
620
1,235
I didn't say it had little interest to me.



And I don't agree with this.
Well, you're against the vast amount of data presented on the subject.

It would be good to know why you feel different? Rather than just presenting an opinion and folding your arms, you backed it up with some insight.

An opinion is the beginning of a conversation not the end of it.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: mckmas8808

Neff

Member
Feb 6, 2012
13,146
2,220
1,080
UK
Rather than just presenting an opinion and folding your arms, you backed it up with some insight.

The idea that a story is more enjoyable knowing the ending in advance is preposterous, I shouldn't have to explain why.

*folds arms*

But since you asked, while I can see the merit in catching an author drop clues to an ending you're familiar with, that's what repeat views are for. You only get to absorb a story without knowing its ending once. There's a good reason why 99% of stories ever told don't reveal their denouement from the outset, and go to great lengths to protect it. The vast majority of human beings like discovery, they like being led on a trail, they like surprises, they like guessing and deducing. They like the big shocking twists which simultaneously upends everything they knew while also establishing a new, perfectly logical narrative, hiding in plain sight. I can't think of a single movie, TV show, book or game I would have enjoyed more knowing the ending of, and on those rare occasions I was unfortunate enough to be spoiled, I know I'll never get the intended experience.

The reason I looked up TLoU2's ending was because that franchise didn't mean enough to me to spend time carefully traversing spoiler minefields, since it leaked long before release. So I thought 'what the hell?' But TLoU2 was so good that I regret that decision, and I'd consider avoiding spoilers for a TLoU3.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cormack12

Duchess

Member
Oct 2, 2020
774
1,541
405
Hmm, nah.

I didn't know how Infinity War was going to end and I would've hated to have found out in advance.

My reaction to that scene was:

Oh good, Thor stabbed him and saved the day. I was worried there for a moment ...
 

Alan Wake

Member
Aug 28, 2020
467
317
290
Glad you liked it. I didn't.

BUT ya know something? I had critical medical issues at the time the game released...maybe that affected my judgement? Maybe I should give it another go, but right now my backlog is too big.

Maybe. Depends on what you didn't like about it, I guess. I loved the first game and thought TLOU2 was OK but a massive disappointment.
 

tassletine

Member
Oct 24, 2007
1,529
620
1,235
The idea that a story is more enjoyable knowing the ending in advance is preposterous, I shouldn't have to explain why.

*folds arms*

But since you asked, while I can see the merit in catching an author drop clues to an ending you're familiar with, that's what repeat views are for. You only get to absorb a story without knowing its ending once. There's a good reason why 99% of stories ever told don't reveal their denouement from the outset, and go to great lengths to protect it. The vast majority of human beings like discovery, they like being led on a trail, they like surprises, they like guessing and deducing. They like the big shocking twists which simultaneously upends everything they knew while also establishing a new, perfectly logical narrative, hiding in plain sight. I can't think of a single movie, TV show, book or game I would have enjoyed more knowing the ending of, and on those rare occasions I was unfortunate enough to be spoiled, I know I'll never get the intended experience.

The reason I looked up TLoU2's ending was because that franchise didn't mean enough to me to spend time carefully traversing spoiler minefields, since it leaked long before release. So I thought 'what the hell?' But TLoU2 was so good that I regret that decision, and I'd consider avoiding spoilers for a TLoU3.
You should if you want to be taken seriously, or consider a story more than a series of surprises as the scientific evidence is pretty clear.
I have no problem with you enjoying surprises but if you're arguing that surprises make a better story that's another matter.

Good stories can and are told again and again, bad ones aren't. Most of literature works on the basic literary device that you know the main character will have a happy ending. Why go to a mainstream film AT ALL if that's the case as they all follow that basic formula.

You'll find that bad stories are the ones that are most usually protected regards leaks. See Marvel films with their closely guarded copy and paste plots. That is usually more about protecting IP because as soon as someone hears about a successful franchise etc. You can bet that will be copied.
People also complain, because they like surprises. Surprises are fun, but they don't have much bearing on what makes a good story, because as you say, you can only be surprised once.

This is one of the failings of LOU2. It relies almost entirely on upending the audience. Introduce a character-- kill him, introduce a horse kill it. Dog ditto. The lady is pregnant -- Not any more!
By the end it wasn't surprising at all, just repetitive as that appeared to be the writers only move.
 
  • Triggered
Reactions: Javthusiast

MastaKiiLA

Member
Jun 11, 2020
2,620
4,696
420
ITT, more surprise that a well-crafted game with subject matter some find disagreeable sold well, than the sad fact that Madden and COD continue to lead the charts. Whether you liked TLOU2 or not, at least it was an original story. Madden and COD are just copypasta of the same thing year after year, and they continue to sell well. That's where the outrage should be placed.
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: mckmas8808

tassletine

Member
Oct 24, 2007
1,529
620
1,235
Hmm, nah.

I didn't know how Infinity War was going to end and I would've hated to have found out in advance.

My reaction to that scene was:

Oh good, Thor stabbed him and saved the day. I was worried there for a moment ...
That's because the ending to that film was Dogshit. Having Tony Stark magically steal the box from Thanos was dumb as hell.
I only liked the first part of Endgame. The last part was boring because it was so needlessly strung out.
 

Neff

Member
Feb 6, 2012
13,146
2,220
1,080
UK
if you're arguing that surprises make a better story that's another matter.

Again, I didn't say this. I said that knowing the ending of a story in advance very much harms its impact. And judging from the comments following the 'scientific' study you linked to, my opinion seems to be a commonly held one.

None of which has anything to do with TLoU2 besides me wishing it hadn't leaked in the first place.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575
Well, you're against the vast amount of data presented on the subject.

It would be good to know why you feel different? Rather than just presenting an opinion and folding your arms, you backed it up with some insight.

An opinion is the beginning of a conversation not the end of it.
Your data doesn't support your argument.

Some people love to be spoiled, and others don't.

There's a reason why people protect themselves from spoilers and that's because they don't like it. They want to experience the story for themselves while its being told to them. You really think the vast majority of the people who are going to see a movie for the first time want to be spoiled or don't even mind it at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575
That's because the ending to that film was Dogshit. Having Tony Stark magically steal the box from Thanos was dumb as hell.
I only liked the first part of Endgame. The last part was boring because it was so needlessly strung out.
Magically stealing a box? What are you talking about? :messenger_grinning_smiling:

Here's a known fact: A lot of people go to movies because they want to experience the movie with other people/fans. Moments throughout the movie may be less enjoyable if they already know what's going to happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

MiguelItUp

Member
Feb 24, 2015
7,289
6,575
800
I really dont' get the level of vitriol LOUII generates on this board. Like is it a joke that i'm not getting?
I think it's because folks with different opinions can't have cordial/constructive conversations about it majority of the time. For whatever reason.

People that adore it get sassy with those that didn't feel the same way. Same thing with those that hated it. It never ends, lol.
 

Bartski

Member
Jan 15, 2020
3,223
8,244
685
Katowice
I linked to the first article I came across. I suggest you learn to use Google.
And why should I do that for you? You're the one coming here to make a point and then think you're proving it right by linking this methodologically piss-poor study.
I am aware of this research and if you were ever involved in any IRL you'd immediately notice the only vast thing about it is the number of possible confounders that would need to be isolated to make it even remotely conclusive.
 

tassletine

Member
Oct 24, 2007
1,529
620
1,235
And why should I do that for you? You're the one coming here to make a point and then think you're proving it right by linking this methodologically piss-poor study.
I am aware of this research and if you were ever involved in any IRL you'd immediately notice the only vast thing about it is the number of possible confounders that would need to be isolated to make it even remotely conclusive.

And why should I do that for you? You're the one coming here to make a point and then think you're proving it right by linking this methodologically piss-poor study.
I am aware of this research and if you were ever involved in any IRL you'd immediately notice the only vast thing about it is the number of possible confounders that would need to be isolated to make it even remotely conclusive.
Why? Because it takes less time than making snarky comments.
There are many studies but rather than addressing those, you'd rather continue arguing your non-point.
 

tassletine

Member
Oct 24, 2007
1,529
620
1,235
Magically stealing a box? What are you talking about? :messenger_grinning_smiling:

Here's a known fact: A lot of people go to movies because they want to experience the movie with other people/fans. Moments throughout the movie may be less enjoyable if they already know what's going to

Magically stealing a box? What are you talking about? :messenger_grinning_smiling:

Here's a known fact: A lot of people go to movies because they want to experience the movie with other people/fans. Moments throughout the movie may be less enjoyable if they already know what's going to happen.
"May be".

Not a fact.
 

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575
"May be".

Not a fact.
Because it becomes less enjoyable for some people are not others. You're trying to tell people its a fact that people will enjoy it more if they're spoiled.

You also ignored the part about the magically stealing a box. What box?
 
Last edited:

tassletine

Member
Oct 24, 2007
1,529
620
1,235
Your data doesn't support your argument.

Some people love to be spoiled, and others don't.

There's a reason why people protect themselves from spoilers and that's because they don't like it. They want to experience the story for themselves while its being told to them. You really think the vast majority of the people who are going to see a movie for the first time want to be spoiled or don't even mind it at all.
I'm not saying that. I prefer to generally watch without spoilers initially.
Rather than digging in you need to take it in context to what I wrote initially, which is about enjoying a film. What people want and what they actually experience are two different things.

Why do you think that trailers spoil so much? It's to set you up for the film, so you enjoy it more. It's not trying to actually ruin the film for you. That would be silly.

I'm not talking about which people prefer what, or that some people hate spoilers, just that it's well known, in the film-making world anyway, that spoilers don't have much effect -- And I linked to a study, one of many, that proves that scientifically.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Bartski

tassletine

Member
Oct 24, 2007
1,529
620
1,235
Because it becomes less enjoyable for some people are not others. You're trying to tell people its a fact that people will enjoy it more if they're spoiled.

You also ignored the part about the magically stealing a box. What box?
I didn't mean a box, but my hatred of those films means I spend most of my time trying to wipe them from my memory
The infinity stones or whatever the shitty maguffin was in those films. Iron man sucked them out of Thanos' glove.
The whole saga hinged on a shitty bit of slight of hand whilst the bad guy wasn't looking. It's like a three year old wrote it..

Did I say fact? I don't remember that. Maybe my memory is playing up. If I did say that then it's clearly in context to the article -- The studies should make perfectly clear what the ratios are in each one.
Not everything needs to be black and white. I'd imagine that young people want spoiler free things, whilst older seen it all types, wouldn't give a toss.
 

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575
I'm not saying that. I prefer to generally watch without spoilers initially.
Rather than digging in you need to take it in context to what I wrote initially, which is about enjoying a film. What people want and what they actually experience are two different things.

Why do you think that trailers spoil so much? It's to set you up for the film, so you enjoy it more. It's not trying to actually ruin the film for you. That would be silly.

I'm not talking about which people prefer what, or that some people hate spoilers, just that it's well known, in the film-making world anyway, that spoilers don't have much effect -- And I linked to a study, one of many, that proves that scientifically.
You're trying to apply that article to every single person and that's dumb. lol

Trailers are designed to sell you on the product, it's not mean to spoil the entire movie.

Take a horror movie for example: They'll explain who the antagonist is, his back story and a few short clips of people getting killed. But what does it show? The most important death scenes, the twist or how its defeated. These are the big moments that they will try to hide in the trailer, which are they KEY moments in the movie.
 

Renozokii

Member
Nov 4, 2019
673
1,335
455
What a lot of people don't understand is that the biggest hurdle for a game is to get you to give a shit at all.
The fact that so many of you had such a visceral reaction to Abby is a testimony to how well its story is told.
Complaining that the story was dark and depressing says more about you than any problem with the story.
In a world where so much media is generic cookie-cutter bullshit, I can appreciate a game that was able to keep me engaged until the very end.
Many artists take mass controversy as a complement for a reason. Some may not handle it well, which is understandable, but controversy is a gut reaction from folks.
 

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575
I didn't mean a box, but my hatred of those films means I spend most of my time trying to wipe them from my memory
The infinity stones or whatever the shitty maguffin was in those films. Iron man sucked them out of Thanos' glove.
The whole saga hinged on a shitty bit of slight of hand whilst the bad guy wasn't looking. It's like a three year old wrote it..

This is not true. The Gauntlet was barely functional after Hulk used it and that's why Thanos had to take one of the stones out just to punch Captain Marvel. This is something you wouldn't have to do with a working gauntlet. Tony designed both gauntlets and that's why he made it possible for his to absorb the stones.

The entire sequence was design to make the audience feel that Thanos had a chance to do it again. However, Tony knew he was going to be the one to sacrifice himself. This is why Dr. Strange put up the 1 finger because they both knew what the outcome was going to be.



Did I say fact? I don't remember that. Maybe my memory is playing up. If I did say that then it's clearly in context to the article -- The studies should make perfectly clear what the ratios are in each one.
Not everything needs to be black and white. I'd imagine that young people want spoiler free things, whilst older seen it all types, wouldn't give a toss.
You don't realize how you're portraying your argument in this thread.
 

xBlueStonex

Member
Dec 2, 2018
82
402
315
No, your belief is based on a random YouTuber who failed to understand the story. If this is what you pull up every single time someone askes you explain why, then that's simply just embarrassing. lol.

He (just like you) didn't understand the ending and what he meant, so you just used it in your argument which leaves you here making no sense at all. No matter how many YouTubers you pull up, if they failed to grasp the meaning of the ending, then they're wrong. Period.

The fact that you told me that the cure was only a possibility shows you never understood the first game at all.

The irony of everything you just said. Yikes. Failed to understand the story according to who?
 

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575
The irony of everything you just said. Yikes. Failed to understand the story according to who?
To anyone who played both games and actually understood both. He said it retcons the first game. Anyone who know that the word retcon means knows he doesn't know what he's talking about.
 

TheGrat1

Member
Jun 2, 2020
629
1,171
405
Well, AC NH shipped in March 2020. By May 2020 it had already sold like 13 million.

This chart only covers the last 12 months, beginning June 2020. So a big chunk of ACNH's sales are pre-June 2020 and thus not counted here.

(And then lack of digital sales data on top.)
I am aware of all the caveats. I am still surprised.
 

xBlueStonex

Member
Dec 2, 2018
82
402
315
To anyone who played both games and actually understood both. He said it retcons the first game. Anyone who know that the word retcon means knows he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I have played both and I understand both. I believe it absolutely retcons the first game. The ambiguity that was layered so carefully throughout the first one is demolished by some of the most ham-fisted storytelling I have ever seen in gaming.

Who are you to say that someone didn't 'understand the story', simply because they didn't agree with your interpretation of it? Awful means of deflection from valid criticism, and totally validates what that Japanese reviewer had to say about TLOU2: "It's a story about right and wrong by people who always say they are right." You are those people.
 

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575
I have played both and I understand both. I believe it absolutely retcons the first game. The ambiguity that was layered so carefully throughout the first one is demolished by some of the most ham-fisted storytelling I have ever seen in gaming.

Who are you to say that someone didn't 'understand the story', simply because they didn't agree with your interpretation of it? Awful means of deflection from valid criticism, and totally validates what that Japanese reviewer had to say about TLOU2: "It's a story about right and wrong by people who always say they are right." You are those people.
It's clear that you didn't.

The only retcon in the game is the fact that they changed the doctor's race. Other than that, there are no other retcons. I've discussed this game with many people and they swear up and down the they know the story very well, but they truly don't.

The problem with this guy in the video is that he explains how the ending of TLOU1 was morally ambiguous. He THEN tries turn his interpretation into a fact, and tries to tell his viewers that TLOU 2 retcons it.

Video Quote:
The sequel completely retcons Joel's choices, changing them from the desperate actions of a loving father into those of a selfish bloodthirsty psychopath.

Anyone understood the story knows this is bullshit. Joel's selfish actions were in full display at the end of TLOU 1. He didn't only kill to stop the Fireflies from performing the surgery, he also killed them because he didn't want anyone to come after Ellie. Hiding the truth from Ellie means he knows its a decision SHE didn't want, thus making a selfish selfish decision, but out of love.

Video Quote:
Who deserves to be mercifully punished for what he did. And to complete the betrayal Ellie has to accept what Joel was forced to do was completely ignored so that they could have a ridiculous and contrived argument.

This is what he doesn't understand: Joel paid the price for his decision, but the story never tells you that it was morally wrong. If it did, then Joel's final words to Ellie would've been meaningless. He wants to portray this as they shitted on Joel's character and wanted to make him look like the bad guy when that is completely false.
 

tassletine

Member
Oct 24, 2007
1,529
620
1,235
This is not true. The Gauntlet was barely functional after Hulk used it and that's why Thanos had to take one of the stones out just to punch Captain Marvel. This is something you wouldn't have to do with a working gauntlet. Tony designed both gauntlets and that's why he made it possible for his to absorb the stones.

The entire sequence was design to make the audience feel that Thanos had a chance to do it again. However, Tony knew he was going to be the one to sacrifice himself. This is why Dr. Strange put up the 1 finger because they both knew what the outcome was going to be.




You don't realize how you're portraying your argument in this thread.
I don't care about Marvel or your opinion of me.
 

tassletine

Member
Oct 24, 2007
1,529
620
1,235
You're trying to apply that article to every single person and that's dumb. lol

Trailers are designed to sell you on the product, it's not mean to spoil the entire movie.

Take a horror movie for example: They'll explain who the antagonist is, his back story and a few short clips of people getting killed. But what does it show? The most important death scenes, the twist or how its defeated. These are the big moments that they will try to hide in the trailer, which are they KEY moments in the m
Every single person? Hyperbole much?

Your taking this way too personally. I only posted that study because I found it interesting.

I'm to old to get into this "my lived experience" anti science woke crap. Goodbye.
 

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575
Every single person? Hyperbole much?

Your taking this way too personally. I only posted that study because I found it interesting.

I'm to old to get into this "my lived experience" anti science woke crap. Goodbye.
There's nothing anti-science here. You tried to prove your point and failed.
 

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575
What was my point exactly?

You already said it.

Having said that and contrary to instinct, you will enjoy a story more if you know how it ends.

You told someone that he would enjoy it more if it was spoiled and he disagreed. Your response was "you're going against vast amount of data".

You misrepresented the data and believe this applied to everyone.
 

tassletine

Member
Oct 24, 2007
1,529
620
1,235
You already said it.



You told someone that he would enjoy it more if it was spoiled and he disagreed. Your response was "you're going against vast amount of data".

You misrepresented the data and believe this applied to everyone.
Oh! So you're a white knight. I thought you were interested in talking about the game. Fair enough.

Data from the many studies (I've already admitted I didn't read the article I linked to) needs to be interpreted by experts.
So pardon me if I trust them, rather than some guy on Neogaf who values their own opinion more.
 

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575
Oh! So you're a white knight. I thought you were interested in talking about the game. Fair enough.

Data from the many studies (I've already admitted I didn't read the article I linked to) needs to be interpreted by experts.
So pardon me if I trust them, rather than some guy on Neogaf who values their own opinion more.

Of course you didn't read the article, neither do you know how the data was gathered.

It was gathered based on two groups, and the data showed that group who knew the end enjoyed it more.

But this is what you're not getting: 1) That doesn't mean everyone on side A gave it a 7 and everyone on side B gave it an 8. There's also instances that people who were NOT spoiled enjoyed it more than someone who WERE spoiled. 2) You cannot experience the same story for the first time twice.


The data shows that people may enjoy it more because they're focusing on how everything comes together. It's like watching a movie twice - you often get a better understanding of the movie the second time.

You don't apply this data to everyone because it different for everyone.


This YouTuber brings up more data which contradicts YOUR point.

 
Last edited:

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
May 24, 2005
47,569
14,591
2,000
I have played both and I understand both. I believe it absolutely retcons the first game. The ambiguity that was layered so carefully throughout the first one is demolished by some of the most ham-fisted storytelling I have ever seen in gaming.

Who are you to say that someone didn't 'understand the story', simply because they didn't agree with your interpretation of it? Awful means of deflection from valid criticism, and totally validates what that Japanese reviewer had to say about TLOU2: "It's a story about right and wrong by people who always say they are right." You are those people.

The point was to CLARIFY things that happened in the first game. It didn't retcon those things. There's a difference.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Mar 14, 2020
5,554
27,034
590
Another report that confirms the obvious…. it didn’t have legs. Controversy helped it only on the launch.



"This isn’t the first time we’ve seen Spider-Man at that price. On Black Friday last year, Sony discounted Spider-Man by $20 (in addition to offering it for free in a PlayStation 4 bundle) and the game has been available for $39.99 several times since November. The permanent price drop just makes it official."

"Sony can usually be counted on to lower prices on PS4 exclusives pretty soon after release hype has died down, as opposed to Nintendo, who has yet to offer permanent price drops on any major Switch exclusives. In late 2018, PS4 releases God of War, Detroit: Become Human, and the remastered Shadow of the Colossus received similar permanent discounts, even though they were less than a year old."


Spider-man shipped Sept 2018
Price cut in Feb 2019 after just 6 months
TLOU2 price cut after 13 months


K-Pop GIF
 
Last edited:

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575

"This isn’t the first time we’ve seen Spider-Man at that price. On Black Friday last year, Sony discounted Spider-Man by $20 (in addition to offering it for free in a PlayStation 4 bundle) and the game has been available for $39.99 several times since November. The permanent price drop just makes it official."

"Sony can usually be counted on to lower prices on PS4 exclusives pretty soon after release hype has died down, as opposed to Nintendo, who has yet to offer permanent price drops on any major Switch exclusives. In late 2018, PS4 releases God of War, Detroit: Become Human, and the remastered Shadow of the Colossus received similar permanent discounts, even though they were less than a year old."


Spider-man shipped Sept 2018
Price cut in Feb 2019 after just 6 months
TLOU2 price cut after 13 months


K-Pop GIF
God of War 2018 price drop at around 6 months? Silence.
Uncharted 4 Price drop 11 months? Silence

TLOU 2 price drop after a year? This is proof the game bombed!

After a year later, some people just can't seem to let go. lol

I wonder what's going to happen when Sony finally announces the sales of TLOU 2.
 

Woggleman

Member
Jan 1, 2020
2,128
3,301
445
Sony doing the same thing that they always do with games a year after release is not proof that the game bombed. If people don't like it then just say it but don't make some narrative that the game is a bomb when that just is not the case.
 

Umbral

Member
May 7, 2020
1,641
2,954
425
God of War 2018 price drop at around 6 months? Silence.
Uncharted 4 Price drop 11 months? Silence

TLOU 2 price drop after a year? This is proof the game bombed!

After a year later, some people just can't seem to let go. lol

I wonder what's going to happen when Sony finally announces the sales of TLOU 2.
It dropped in price by September 2020, then a 50% discount in October 2020. This has continued fairly regularly since then.
 
Last edited:

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575
It dropped in price by September 2020, then a 50% discount in October 2020. This has continued fairly regularly since then.
God of War was regularly discounted. It was also cheaper then TLOU 2 on many occasions.

You guys don't bother looking this stuff up.
 

MrA

Member
Mar 9, 2020
1,678
2,770
420
last of us 2 fell off of the NPD rolling top 10 sellers, so it sold less in the past 12 months than Mario kart 8 but given that mario kart 8 sold something like 10 million units globally , so probably 3 or 4 million units in North america, it
God of War was regularly discounted. It was also cheaper then TLOU 2 on many occasions.

You guys don't bother looking this stuff up.
I looked it up pretty thoroughly god of war seemed to have a slightly gentler decline and didn't benefit from the boon the pandemic offered.
 

Yoboman

Member
Sep 17, 2005
20,617
18,038
1,890
I mentioned this earlier, but this sort of inconsistency is what makes the writing subpar, or at least not as great as everyone thinks.
It's good for a videogame but shits the bed in terms of competition in another medium-- That you and the game (apparently) want to compare it to Moby Dick is a bit much.

As you pointed out -- One moment it's asking you to infer Joel's actions, the next it's utterly contrived, or has a pregnant lady climbing rope etc etc.
You really can't have it both ways and expect people to understand both sides --Unless you're writing to provoke which seems to be the case here.

If every time an inconsistency comes up it can be put down to what you can infer, then almost any situation can be rendered invalid, as it comes down to what each viewer brings to it and the backstories that they've made up themselves. So Joel has flipped character and is soft now -- and pregnant lady has been using Abby's steroids, blah blah. Still doesn't make it coherent.

They could have shown Joel's character changing, and made us feel that, rather than walking us around an aquarium for half an hour looking for a Moby Dick reference.
Sure, that was an interesting chapter....So looking forward to hearing Owens scintillating dialogue on my next playthrough ....I'm being too harsh, but that part of the game was dogshit.

The main problem for me is that really the basic plot (heart of darkness) has been done to death in videogames.
The first game gave you something genuinely fresh in that it started off as something you'd seen before that slowly revealed it's self to be a character study. This is almost the opposite.

LOU2's story is really nothing but a standard videogame plot padded out with exactly the sort of dialogue you get from that sort of game. Constant melodrama, dumb choices, No! No! No! the floor is caving in moments that ND have done to death. We've seen it before, and despite some of the writing being good and the worldbuilding excellent, it's still an extremely conservative game in it's approach to story.

If there is some sensible criticism of the story, I'd like to hear it as most of it just boils down to "I like it because" and then someone firing back because they've imagined something different.
If this game is as serious about it's goals as it appears to be, then it needs to be criticised as such. Things like overlength, reusing of tropes, redundant scenes and crappy supporting characters come to mind.
It's a horribly paced story that works as a game because you can take a break from it -- Now I'm not sure about you, but the only reason I was wondering how it ended was because of the first game, not because I found the story gripping or the gameplay was still thrilling me.
They do show that Joel has gotten softer, that's what the whole flashback in the hotel was. He missed his assignment, left an entire infected building near the settlement and almost got himself and Ellie killed to pick up some guitar strings. That flashback also emphasises how people come and go from the settlement and what a mistake people make thinking things are different outside of it when they've been there too long

Or you can view the inverse path of his brother who was already the "soft" one since the first game. But as soon as he left the walls of Jackson again to go after the WLF he became hardened again, to the point he ended up demanding Ellie seek revenge which he wouldn't do at the start

I dont know how much more forcefully they could have slapped you over the head with that message that Joel had gotten softer other than giving him a shirt that says "big softy" on it
 

DForce

Member
Nov 23, 2017
5,197
10,082
575
last of us 2 fell off of the NPD rolling top 10 sellers, so it sold less in the past 12 months than Mario kart 8 but given that mario kart 8 sold something like 10 million units globally , so probably 3 or 4 million units in North america, it

I looked it up pretty thoroughly god of war seemed to have a slightly gentler decline and didn't benefit from the boon the pandemic offered.
This is about games being discounted. People are using it as proof that TLOU 2 failed.
 

T0minator

Neo Member
Jun 23, 2021
47
158
160
I completely skipped Ghost of Tsushima for The Last of Us 2 last year....just now jumping into Ghost now on PS5...jeesusss is this an awesome experience..Sucker Punch you have a new fan