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In the US, The Last of Us Part II has outsold Miles Morales and Ghost of Tsushima
- Thread starter kyliethicc
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DForce
Member
How is walking into a room after being chased unnatural? You're reaching. Joel was clearly checking everyone out as soon as he stepped into the room and the questions he was asking proves he was a little suspicious. It's also understandable why Tommy would act nice while being out numbered, something any normal human would do in that situation.
You're all over the place trying to make excuses again. lol
If a kid having a gun pointed at his head and refusing to shoot means Joel can trust him more, then the same logic can be applied to Abby when she helped Tommy and Joel escape the horde. Joel was forced to follow Abby, he wasn't forced to follow Henry.
Once again, you're not good at analyzing cutscenes/stories. This is why you didn't realize Joel was suspicious when he entered the house.
Ulysses 31
Member
They're following armed strangers around without assessing the situation with each other first, that's doesn't seem in character to me. Joel walking where he'd be surrounded seems weird too.
Makes sense that Tommy doesn't go picking fights with a larger armed group in front of him yes, letting them surround him from the sides does not. Same with announcing their real names when Joel had acknowledged what he'd done at the start of the game.
I already said that trusting Abby wasn't that strange. You keep ignoring Abby's crew who hadn't "earned" their trust nearly as much as Abby had.
Doesn't mean much that Joel is suspicious when he still mostly behaves like an unsuspicious person would.
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Faithless83
Banned
We are going smaller and smaller region wise, huh?
Next thread is "In my house it sold more copies as I bought both digital and physical".
TLOU2 fans are indeed the vegans of gaming. A year later and we are still talking about that dumpster fire of a game.
Next thread is "In my house it sold more copies as I bought both digital and physical".
TLOU2 fans are indeed the vegans of gaming. A year later and we are still talking about that dumpster fire of a game.
DForce
Member
There wasn't enough time for him to assess the situation because he was surrounded as soon as he entered the gate. It's common sense that he wouldn't be able to do anything or get very far if he decided to run because the infected were still out there and he would have Abby's friends chasing after him.
You're poorly analyzing what's actually going on. Joel was asked by Nora to take the saddles of the horse and he told her "no" because wanted to get out of their hair as soon as the snowstorm settled. Joel was also asking questions what they were doing out there. These are some of the things you do when you're suspicious. When you're surrounded, you would also go near the as your only escape and that's exactly what he did.
You keep ignoring that Joel was forced into that situation.
If I was walking down the street and someone offered me a ride home, I would decline because I don't trust that person. However, if I'm being chased by someone that's trying to kill me and some random person stops their car to help me escape, then I would happily jump inside of that car.
Your logic is that Joel should've stopped and said, "Well, I don't know. Should we go inside that gate?" while being chased by a horde. That means no sense whatsoever.
You're going to keep spinning and you already discredited what Neil Druckmann said, but you're willing to take some random youtuber's take on what's actually going on in the story. lol
I promised myself I wouldn't waste my time watching you spin things 50 times to fit your own person beliefs.
sncvsrtoip
Member
its not like its suprising ? miles and ghost great games but lou2 was one of best last generation
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Ulysses 31
Member
What do you mean? Once they had the horses indoors there was breathing room for assessments before following them to the other room. It would be very hard for them to run away if they tried sure but at the very least they could prevented being surrounded. It seems strange they would cede that tactical advantage to strangers so casually.
You correctly point out that Joel asked what they were doing but ignore that Joel puts himself in the middle of the room which is a big mistake to make for someone truly suspicious of others. Even if you're sure that the writing shows clearly that Joel is very suspicious, it doesn't gel well with how he ultimately behaves and that's a bit of a stinger.
Now you're just seeing things, I've not disputed that Joel is thrusted into situations and I'm in agreement with you up until they've entered the house. So it's weird to bring something up from before that.
Dunno which youtubers you're talking about, I've not seen Quartering, G + G do any in-depth story analyses if that's what you mean and I don't think that's within their "area of expertise" either.
Elbow Identity Shallow
Member
There was an abundance of enjoyment in both of The Last of Us games for me and I completed the games and I start again straight away at the next skill level until I complete everything.
I'm amazed that you feel there's no fun to be had in ALL Sony's games, just off the top of my head I can think of these which were so much fun to play and if I was willing to look at a list for you, I'm sure that quite a few more could easily be added.
- Ghost of Tsushima
- Uncharted 4: A Thiefs End
- Days Gone
- Sackboy: A Big Adventure
- Death Stranding
- Horizon: Zero dawn
- Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
- Astro’s Playroom
- Dreams
- Demon’s Souls
- Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles Morales
- Marvel’s Spider-Man
- Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
- Returnal
- Nioh
- Nioh 2
tommib
Banned
Take the hate somewhere else, dude. The game broke all awards records and is game of the generation for a considerable amount of people in this forum. Game’s a fucking masterpiece.
Faithless83
Banned
Sorry, did I hurt you when I said the truth?
Ryu Kaiba
Member
The games were always dark, they're in a post-apocalyptic world and they took it seriously that's exactly the kind of thing that should've happened. You're the kind of consumer that ruins good movies and games because they get focus tested and watered down because you can't handle real heavy themes. Artists shouldn't listen to people like you.
drotahorror
Member
The violence and just pure brutality of it easily persuaded me to keep on playing no matter what dumb shit they did in the story. Not to mention fuckin bullet time when aiming down sights and it wasn't even a cheat, just an accessibility option. Every game should have this, seeing that insane violence in slow motion had me dropping my jaw.
Oh and the graphics are top notch. I don't think I've ever played a game as detailed as this one either. Everything just oozes with tons of meticulous detail, never played a game like it. I won't even talk about the story, the gameplay was amazing and so was the graphics. Played first time, on PS5 with patch.
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DForce
Member
And what would happen if they started to act suspicious? They were in between a horde and the WLF. I said it before and i'll say it again. You're not good at analyzing scenes and you just look for ways to find fault in something, when it completely makes no sense.
You want to believe Joel was this smart man and he would never put himself in danger.
What did Joel did in TLOU 1 when he realized some goon on the street wasn't even hurt? He drove his car right at him directly into a trap.
Ryu Kaiba
Member
What a lot of people don't understand is that the biggest hurdle for a game is to get you to give a shit at all.
The fact that so many of you had such a visceral reaction to Abby is a testimony to how well its story is told.
Complaining that the story was dark and depressing says more about you than any problem with the story.
In a world where so much media is generic cookie-cutter bullshit, I can appreciate a game that was able to keep me engaged until the very end.
The fact that so many of you had such a visceral reaction to Abby is a testimony to how well its story is told.
Complaining that the story was dark and depressing says more about you than any problem with the story.
In a world where so much media is generic cookie-cutter bullshit, I can appreciate a game that was able to keep me engaged until the very end.
sol_bad
Member
So they stop themselves from being surrounded.
OK.
What does that accomplish in this situation?
Ulysses 31
Member
I'd assume they'd just keep their distance, have minimal contact and wait out the storm. I don't think these WLF were the type to kill them just for knowing they were there.
Surely you can see how having a car is a game changer vs people who don't in that situation. TLOU2 Joel should've known better than to exposes himself as much he did.
As I replied above to DForce: unless the WLF were planning to get rid of Tommy and Joel anyway for knowing they were there, I'd assume they'd keep their distance and go their separate ways again once the storm settles. The WLF group only got hostile when it became clear it was the Miller bros.
DForce
Member
You're calling out writing and you say stuff like this.
If they tried to keep their distance, then they would know Joel and Tommy would be up to something and start acting suspicious.
This also wouldn't work because
1) Abby ran to their location to capture anyone from Jackson just to lure Joel out.
2) Abby knew about Tommy before heading to Jackson Joel shouted his name while fighting off the infected.
3) Abby knew Joel's name before she told them she had other friends with her.
This means they were trapped and having minimal contact would make them out to be suspicious based on their point of view.
It's not. He was walking driving into the trap. He should've kept his distance because he didn't know if there were others waiting behind the guy, and they were.
You move the goalpost whenever something other than TLOU 2 is mentioned.
sol_bad
Member
We know how the scene plays out, no matter where Joel was standing Abby was still going to take a shotgun to his leg. Whether Joel was surrounded or not doesn't change that fact.
Ulysses 31
Member
In a TLOU2 world, strangers not trusting each other is not a weird thing.
I'm no fan of the WLF but even I don't think they're that unreasonable to take offense that they're not trusted in that situation.
Abby could try to pry for their real names but seeing as Joel and Tommy don't trust them in my scenario, they'd just offer false information or excuses.
He had the car that does offer some protection and a quick getaway. Joel does take a chance yes but it's more calculated than what he does in TLOU2.
DForce
Member
You didn't read what I said.
Joel doesn't know anything about them and its common sense that you don't act suspicious.
False information? Like I said, Joel already shouted Tommy's name and he wasn't going to leave their grasp regardless if he tried to give false information afterwards. It doesn't matter what they said or if they tried to give up false information as soon as they arrived at the house... they were going to be captured because Abby knew their names before Joel said anything.
They almost died and he drove right into a trap. A trap that he seen before driving into it. Joel should've looked the situation, got out of his car to see if they were others around, but he didn't.
Ulysses 31
Member
Yes and that scene felt forced an unnatural for established characters like Joel and Tommy.
Ulysses 31
Member
It's also common sense that strangers don't trust each other immediately. I don't see the WLF group turn hostile just for Joel and Tommy being suspicious toward them.
Even if it still came to a confrontation where only Joel dies, that flow of events would've felt more natural than what we got.
Come on, you know full well that staying in the care is safer in that situation. He should've gone with his gut feeling and avoided the trap yes but seeing how he has the car he takes a calculated risk. In TLOU2 he just exposes himself.
DForce
Member
You're contradicting yourself.
You can't say strangers don't trust each other immediately and then say you don't believe the WLF group would do anything. It's not what you see the WLF group doing, you're putting yourself in a scenario of meeting strangers. Acting suspicious could make others around you act differently.
Calculated risk? LOL.
A bullet was shot through the windshield and it could've hit either Ellie or Joel.
This is what you're doing. In TLOU 1, Joel made smart decisions and there's always an explanation why it worked. In TLOU 2, something is always usually wrong with a scene.
I'm done. You're sitting here goalpost moving and coming up with some ridiculous excuses.
sol_bad
Member
Ulysses 31
Member
It's clear that Tommy and Joel weren't there by choice but because of the blizzard and the horde. Them acting distrusting of strangers they were forced to meet seems understandable. I'm sure for the kind of people the WLF are, even they would be considerate of that.
What would you call it then? Reckless?
He had a gut feeling it was a trap, he gambled on being able to punch through unharmed with the car and it payed off. Looks calculated and not reckless to me.
They travelled through plenty of areas with thugs before so now that they had the advantage of that car, why would that make Joel less willing to do so? This is a strange leap you're making.A bullet was shot through the windshield and it could've hit either Ellie or Joel.
This is what you're doing. In TLOU 1, Joel made smart decisions and there's always an explanation why it worked. In TLOU 2, something is always usually wrong with a scene.
I'm done. You're sitting here goalpost moving and coming up with some ridiculous excuses.
Joel doesn't act in character for a veteran survivor in a TLOU(2) world yes. There could be good reasons for why he doesn't, it's just that the game doesn't gives us enough info for his behaviour.
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Ulysses 31
Member
That too yes.
When Abby decides to visit town
- There's a blizzard on the rise
- There's a rare occurrence of a horde
- Joel's also on patrol
- The first person from Jackson she runs into unknowingly happens to be Joel
But I was talking about the events in the house though: the Miller bros casually following that WLF group in the other room and giving away their names seems unbefitting of people tasked with the duty of protecting a nearby town.
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Klayzer
Member
They hated it so much that, they're obsessed with stalking it. Part 3 would probably cause a considerable uptick in hate strokes. For that reason, ND shouldn't do it. Think about the people.
This is not true, in any industry. People are more willing and more likely to share negative experiences than they are positive ones. NPS and CSAT scores are designed with this in mind. People are just much less likely to go out of their way to share a positive experience, especially when it comes to user submitted reviews and feedback.
People these days are more than willing to share their hate and negativity. That is especially true online. Within minutes of release this game had almost four times as many reviews as TLOU 1 and most of them were review bombs. I have not seen this kind of gamer rage since Gamergate. Sure many people just don't care for the game for legitimate reasons but there were tons of people who have a vendetta against it's very existence.
Faithless83
Banned
Have you tried to find someone on the internet by his name without a photo?
Now imagine doing that without internet in the US.
Not forced at all. But the point was how out of character it was for them to give their names to total strangers.
Considering what they have done/gone through.
Faithless83
Banned
Because they cared. Because they were fans and the "pseudo writers", choose to end the ambiguity of the first game and shit on them.
They've destroyed the first game legacy of father and daughter love, for a cheap jab on "cis white males who love violence", on a game that all you do is kill people.
Like having virtue signalling on GTA or COD, on how wrong it is to kill people.
I'm glad they keep showing these flags, it makes a lot easier for me to choose what I should buy.
I had TLOU2 preordered (where I live you pay full price for a preorder, not the BS that happens in the US).
That leaker was the hero that we needed.
I dislike SJWs and cancel culture as much as anybody else but this was not about taking a jab at cis white males. It showed that cancel culture was not just an SJW thing. Even the ending of the first game was very ambiguous and so was the second one. It just shows things from the perspective of people who ended up on the wrong end of his actions. If people thought that Joel was some infallible super hero kind of character that is on them.
miles118
Member
The game can be dark without feeling hopeless and edgy. But if that's your thing, go play it. I just want to play game to have fun and want it to be a good distraction. I don't need life lessons on how it is bad to kill on an apocalytique world where everything is for yourself.
This life lesson was stupid by the way in a post apocalyptique world. It only lefted me with the idea that everything was pointless where as in a post apocalytique world everynthing should be simple (kill or be kill). Apparently Eliie was the one at fault for trying to take revenge on the one who took her father figure and now she is punished for it. No one gained anything and everything is destroyed. There is no point.
Thinking about it I still don't don't see where Ellie should have done anything different. if she had stayed and did not have any intempt to gain revenge she would have been heartless, unfilliale, disapointing and cowardly. By trying so much to be to be more intelligent that the rest ND trapped themselves in this absudity thinking they are so smart and enlighted and they have the answer. In my point of view they are just smelling there own fart thinking it smells good. I will never understand this kumbaya mentality in an apocalyspe world.
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Warablo
Member
I honestly think most people hated playing Abby, especially at first. I know I did, I just wanted the story to be over.
All the flashbacks were all over the place (literally 2nd half of the game is flashbacks within flashbacks.) Made Ellie into a unlikeable character, made Tommy unlikeable.
The animations and production values are top notch though. It did leave me wanting to see more of the gorgeous world they created.
All the flashbacks were all over the place (literally 2nd half of the game is flashbacks within flashbacks.) Made Ellie into a unlikeable character, made Tommy unlikeable.
The animations and production values are top notch though. It did leave me wanting to see more of the gorgeous world they created.
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Umbral
Member
First, I don’t know who “you guys” is, but I’m not part of them.
Second, I agreed they benefitted from their predecessors being good games. They also happened to be good games themselves, which gives them a long tail in sales from word of mouth recommendations. It is my understanding that TLoU2 sales plummeted shortly after launch, which indicates that word of mouth got out and people were advising others to skip it.
That would be riding solely on the coattails of a predecessor. You take a risk not giving people what they want or expect from a known series. Sometimes it pays off, other times is capsizes the whole thing you built.
The game did damage to the TLoU brand, the PlayStation brand, Naughty Dog’s reputation, and many other things that ripple out from there.
Topher
Gold Member
All those GOTY awards from media and gamers were results of this "damage" you've perceived?
And how does the game make it to the top four in sales for the last 12 months if those sales "plummeted" after launch?
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...-part-2-set-records-for-digital-sales-in-june
Prof. Tivor Tontomo
Banned
How are people still confused about "dollar sales"? All gaming sites have had to deal with it since NPD switched for about 5 years now.
Dollar sales has nothing to do with sales. It's a useless metric, especially if the game price is high or doesn't drop.
With $70 games expect those to be on the top 10 in the future.
Dollar sales has nothing to do with sales. It's a useless metric, especially if the game price is high or doesn't drop.
With $70 games expect those to be on the top 10 in the future.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
TLOUs Pt II Director's cut/
when?
golf edition
DForce
Member
You are part of them.
You're telling people its solely riding the coattails of the predecessors. When you use the word solely, you're saying that's the only reason and nothing else. You don't want to believe people are buying it because they believe its a good game. A small crowd of angry gamers online doesn't reflect every gamer out there. That's something you don't understand.
It's not a good game based on your own opinion, which is not shared by every who played the game. The game has been the charts most of this year. If you actually followed the sales charts in the Pal region, then you would know this.
You guys talk as if your opinions are facts and it's actually not. You don't win 100+ player choice awards across the world if most people shared the same opinion as you do.
Could it even be classed as overrated? It has it's severe share of loathsome haters. It's ratings are valid and make sense imo.
DForce
Member
The only thing ambiguous about the ending is if Joel made the right decision. That hasn't changed in TLOU Part II. If anyone think it did, then they really didn't understand the story of both games.
The game only exposed a lot of weak minded gamers who are still raging on Twitter a year later. Anyone can be upset over something, but still being upset and spoiling the game for others just shows emotionally weak people.
Look at AssCreed for instance. Everyone here SLAGS that franchise (and Ubisoft) off now (myself included). The games still doing stupidly well! Is Valhalla riding on Odysseys coattails? Because I see nothing but hate (with a sprinkle of love here and there) for Odyssey. People will buy what they want to buy.
So you definitely hit the nail on the head.
Faithless83
Banned
There was an ambiguity and a discussion was created from it. Does Ellie's look, in the end of the first game, is a look of someone convinced of what Joel said?
They went through a lot in the first game. The second one was build around the idea of how bad Joel was, then about how bad it is killing.
Again the arrogance of virtue signalling in a game that all you do is kill people.
Then robbing the revenge that people wanted "because revenge is bad", after killing dozens of people in the name of it.
There is so much BS about that game, a franchise that chose to shit the bad and "we don't need you as a fan", deserved the backlash they've got.
The turnover in the studio was really high, yet no article about how toxic the environment there was. They banked on the agenda and lost a lot of fans while doing so.
Let's see how this will pan out for them after that.
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mcjmetroid
Member
Well... Like one of them is a new IP and the other game is a DLC game?
Not trying to be insulting when I say that either but of course Last of Us 2 is gonna outsell both and by a large margin?
Not trying to be insulting when I say that either but of course Last of Us 2 is gonna outsell both and by a large margin?
DForce
Member
You said it ended the ambiguity at the end of the first game. That's not true considering Joel never told Ellie he regretted his decision and Ellie still would've sacrificed herself for the fireflies. If Joel ADMITTED he was wrong, then you would have a point, but he didn't.
Did you even play the game?
It was never Ellie's initial intent to kill Nora, Mel and Owen. She just wanted them to give up Abby's location.
To Nora: Tell me where she went and I'll think about letting you go.
To Mel and Owen: You guys can survive this I just need her.
The only person she kills right away was Jordan and that was to protect Dina from being killed.
The WLF are also trained to kill on sight, and its not even her intent to kill anyone (other than Abby).
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