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Horizon Forbidden West gets a free major update - out now

assurdum

Banned
I didn't, if you zoom in on the far distant trees you'll notice they look more blurry in the performance mode, there's a few other things too.
Well looking to this picture I have sadly to agree with Dictator. Guerrilla need to tone down a bit the sharpening. Sometimes is really ugly and exaggerate.
 
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assurdum

Banned
Had hoped they could fix performance mode without cutting back on features (tree swaying) but oh well... Curious to see hoe well a 40fps mode would feel/look in this game.
Trees swaying is still there if you check the other video comparison, is not cut off. The only evident cut I seen is the purple of the corrupted plantes.
 
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MikeM

Member
I hate the fact that I already plat’d this game. I wish they would clarify what they changed. Guess i’ll wait for the DF video
 

rofif

Gold Member
So that's like 16 patches in 16 weeks, why didn't this game just get delayed. Now would have been the perfect time for a release date and they would have avoided a ton of bad coverage over the performance mode.
Just keeping it installed is annoying. Same as Days Gone was... it had a patch like 2 times per month or 2 years lol
 

Rea

Member
So that's like 16 patches in 16 weeks, why didn't this game just get delayed. Now would have been the perfect time for a release date and they would have avoided a ton of bad coverage over the performance mode.
Eh, no. Fidelity mode is almost perfectly playable, there's tons of people like me who doesn't give a single fuck about performance mode. Can't stand the resolution drop in that mode. Thank GG for releasing early. I played the whole game with Fidelity mode, no crash, no game breaking bugs, only some minor visual bugs here and there. Now I'm waiting for 40fps and VRR update for my NG+ and platinum.
 

yamaci17

Member
I didn't, if you zoom in on the far distant trees you'll notice they look more blurry in the performance mode, there's a few other things too.
check again, you probably confused the titles while uploading them

your "performance mode" picture calculates 1944p



your "resolution mode" picture calculates 1224p




https://imgsli.com/MTEwNzI5

again, the left picture (labeled resolution) has worse anti aliasing than right picture (labeled performance). clearly, the first comparison is reversed, maybe by mistake

but science does not lie
 

Lupin25

Member
So that's like 16 patches in 16 weeks, why didn't this game just get delayed. Now would have been the perfect time for a release date and they would have avoided a ton of bad coverage over the performance mode.

1.16 was just to fix the crashes the last patch brought on. Nothing major.
 

Mr Moose

Member
check again, you probably confused the titles while uploading them

your "performance mode" picture calculates 1944p



your "resolution mode" picture calculates 1224p




https://imgsli.com/MTEwNzI5

again, the left picture (labeled resolution) has worse anti aliasing than right picture (labeled performance). clearly, the first comparison is reversed, maybe by mistake

but science does not lie
It's native 4k in the resolution mode.
 

Kilau

Member
I had about 28 hours played, all in performance mode before the patch, whatever they did looks great. Very clean looking.
 
check again, you probably confused the titles while uploading them

your "performance mode" picture calculates 1944p



your "resolution mode" picture calculates 1224p




https://imgsli.com/MTEwNzI5

again, the left picture (labeled resolution) has worse anti aliasing than right picture (labeled performance). clearly, the first comparison is reversed, maybe by mistake

but science does not lie
Lol thanks for the analysis.

I may have swapped them around by accident, moving them from my console, then onto mobile and onto my laptop is a long process and it's easy to get them muddled up without any proper tags.
 
Lol thanks for the analysis.

I may have swapped them around by accident, moving them from my console, then onto mobile and onto my laptop is a long process and it's easy to get them muddled up without any proper tags.
This doesn't explain why we see clearly sharper foliage in what is supposedly the "performance" mode, as well as higher texture detail on trees and ground.

Environment textures (my performance mode) :



Environment textures (my resolution mode):



Foliage (my performance mode):



Foliage (my resolution mode):

 

yamaci17

Member
This doesn't explain why we see clearly sharper foliage in what is supposedly the "performance" mode, as well as higher texture detail on trees and ground.

Environment textures (my performance mode) :



Environment textures (my resolution mode):



Foliage (my performance mode):



Foliage (my resolution mode):


performance mode is the SHARPENED one. to the moon. its a deceptive trick that makes you think it looks better. it does not, for people that have trained eyes like mine. there's no "extra" texture detail. all the details and existing information is more pronounced due to obnoxious amounts of heavy sharpening filter applied.

lets play a game,, shall we? let me give you two pictures. tell me which one is 1252p (perf mode) and which one is 2160p (res mode) based on the foliage

https://imgsli.com/MTEwOTYw

https://imgsli.com/MTEwOTY1
 
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rofif

Gold Member
This doesn't explain why we see clearly sharper foliage in what is supposedly the "performance" mode, as well as higher texture detail on trees and ground.

Environment textures (my performance mode) :



Environment textures (my resolution mode):



Foliage (my performance mode):



Foliage (my resolution mode):

I hate sharpening
 
performance mode is the SHARPENED one. to the moon. its a deceptive trick that makes you think it looks better. it does not, for people that have trained eyes like mine. there's no "extra" texture detail. all the details and existing information is more pronounced due to obnoxious amounts of heavy sharpening filter applied.

lets play a game,, shall we? let me give you two pictures. tell me which one is 1252p (perf mode) and which one is 2160p (res modeI)

https://imgsli.com/MTEwOTYw
My guess would be that Jack Sparrow would be the res mode.

Also I ran some more tests, this time I ensured it was actually performance vs. resolution.

https://imgsli.com/MTEwOTYy

https://imgsli.com/MTEwOTYz
 

yamaci17

Member
My guess would be that Jack Sparrow would be the res mode.

Also I ran some more tests, this time I ensured it was actually performance vs. resolution.

https://imgsli.com/MTEwOTYy

https://imgsli.com/MTEwOTYz
thanks, it confirms my suspicions. as you can see, resolution mode looks blurrier than performance mode in both comparisons, because

a) obnoxious (subjective, personal opinion) sharpening filter is applied for performance mode
b) sharpening filter is not applied for quality mode, for allowing people to play with beautiful, clear, pristine, native image quality without obvious sharpening artifacts

for the jack sparrow... davy jones was the native 4k+%0 sharpening, and jack sparrow was the 1252p + %60 sharpening

if it works for you... great, fantastic. sharpening can make games appear more sharper than they would ever be regardless of the resolution. i simply don't like it, looking at these shots, game looks like crispy fried chips
 
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performance mode is the SHARPENED one. to the moon. its a deceptive trick that makes you think it looks better. it does not, for people that have trained eyes like mine. there's no "extra" texture detail. all the details and existing information is more pronounced due to obnoxious amounts of heavy sharpening filter applied.

lets play a game,, shall we? let me give you two pictures. tell me which one is 1252p (perf mode) and which one is 2160p (res mode) based on the foliage

https://imgsli.com/MTEwOTYw

https://imgsli.com/MTEwOTY1

You added an addition photo lol

So for the first pic my guess would be jack sparrow is the resolution mode.

The second pic I would say Davy.

However I am beginning to doubt my answers after what you have mentioned about the sharpening filters. It's pretty hard to tell unless you start zooming in.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Some before and after patch (at least I think they are before patch 1.5, hadn't played since Elden Ring and had to manually check to trigger 1.6)



 

yamaci17

Member
You added an addition photo lol

So for the first pic my guess would be jack sparrow is the resolution mode.

The second pic I would say Davy.

However I am beginning to doubt my answers after what you have mentioned about the sharpening filters. It's pretty hard to tell unless you start zooming in.
yeah, sorry, initially i thought the first photo had foliage in very distant place, so i wanted to reiterate with a better shot but you replied earlier, sorry on my end

in 1st comp, davy is the native 4k
in 2nd comp jack is the native 4k

it proves that 1250p+sharpening can appear "better" than native 4k for most people. and i have nothing against that, don't get me wrong. but of course, if we apply the same sharpening to actual 4k mode, then we can have a proper comparison;

and this is 1250p+sharp versus 4k+sharp.

https://imgsli.com/MTEwOTcw



this is the comparison where you're %100 sure about the labels. if so, performance mode looks "sharper" than resolution mode. how can that be? with a sharpening filter, obviously. very intense, high amounts of sharpening, actually, not even a subtle one. they could've applied the same sharpening filter for resolution mode, and then you would think its 6k or something (actually, sharpening filters work better the more pixel input you have)
 
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yeah, sorry, initially i thought the first photo had foliage in very distant place, so i wanted to reiterate with a better shot but you replied earlier, sorry on my end

in 1st comp, davy is the native 4k
in 2nd comp jack is the native 4k

it proves that 1250p+sharpening can appear "better" than native 4k for most people. and i have nothing against that, don't get me wrong. but of course, if we apply the same sharpening to actual 4k mode, then we can have a proper comparison;

and this is 1250p+sharp versus 4k+sharp.

https://imgsli.com/MTEwOTcw
No worries.

Thanks for the information, indeed the sharpening does have a "better" appearance to some extents. I did mistake it for higher resolution textures and higher LOD's which is why I was baffled by the results.

I can understand if some may find the sharpening artefacts annoying, but honestly, it's barely perceptible during actual gameplay. Each to their own I guess.
 

ChiefDada

Member
yeah, sorry, initially i thought the first photo had foliage in very distant place, so i wanted to reiterate with a better shot but you replied earlier, sorry on my end

in 1st comp, davy is the native 4k
in 2nd comp jack is the native 4k

it proves that 1250p+sharpening can appear "better" than native 4k for most people. and i have nothing against that, don't get me wrong. but of course, if we apply the same sharpening to actual 4k mode, then we can have a proper comparison;

and this is 1250p+sharp versus 4k+sharp.

https://imgsli.com/MTEwOTcw



this is the comparison where you're %100 sure about the labels. if so, performance mode looks "sharper" than resolution mode. how can that be? with a sharpening filter, obviously. very intense, high amounts of sharpening, actually, not even a subtle one. they could've applied the same sharpening filter for resolution mode, and then you would think its 6k or something (actually, sharpening filters work better the more pixel input you have)

Hey, really appreciate your analysis. I now sorta understand Alex's comments but what is the downside for the sharpening application when playing/viewing from a normal distance? It's only "hideous" when you zoom in. If there are no artifacts such as the shimmering issue the prior CB approach, why not use it; sure it doesn't add extra detail but it's still enhancing the detail, no? And isn't this the same sharpening that was applied to the original fidelity mode? People say 30fps mode is better but HFW is fast pace with plenty of movement more often than not. Maybe the 30fps judder is more prominent for me since I'm using an oled display.

I've been replaying with NG+ and the set pieces are a completely different experience with new performance mode. There's no way in hell GG didn't realize the original performance mode was simply awful. I'm guessing it was a choice between delaying the game for a second time and anger fans or coming out with this patch months later. Very tough decision, admittedly.
 

nowhat

Member
I've been replaying with NG+ and the set pieces are a completely different experience with new performance mode. There's no way in hell GG didn't realize the original performance mode was simply awful. I'm guessing it was a choice between delaying the game for a second time and anger fans or coming out with this patch months later. Very tough decision, admittedly.
I think it is very obvious the game was released too early (but as you said, delaying it for the second time would have caused the fans bring out the pitchforks). It's not just the shimmering, but general polish - crashes, getting stuck in level geometry, the wild eyeballs at release and so on. Nothing unheard of in an open world game, but HZD was much more polished at release.
 

yamaci17

Member
Hey, really appreciate your analysis. I now sorta understand Alex's comments but what is the downside for the sharpening application when playing/viewing from a normal distance? It's only "hideous" when you zoom in. If there are no artifacts such as the shimmering issue the prior CB approach, why not use it; sure it doesn't add extra detail but it's still enhancing the detail, no? And isn't this the same sharpening that was applied to the original fidelity mode? People say 30fps mode is better but HFW is fast pace with plenty of movement more often than not. Maybe the 30fps judder is more prominent for me since I'm using an oled display.

I've been replaying with NG+ and the set pieces are a completely different experience with new performance mode. There's no way in hell GG didn't realize the original performance mode was simply awful. I'm guessing it was a choice between delaying the game for a second time and anger fans or coming out with this patch months later. Very tough decision, admittedly.

My opinions regarding the sharpening (it being obnoxious) is completely situational. I never said they should not implement it.

It is hideous to me regardless if I zoom in or not, because I'm being very close to my monitor at 55-60 cm view distance. I can pick out intricate foliage details that most TV users would not within their normal viewing distance. All without a single zoom in.

Downside is that there are no options. Sharpening can be easily placed as a toggle, just like motion blur, film grain and such post process effects. In the end, sharpening is not a graphical feature, or a juggernaut like shadows, ambient occlusion or anything. It is a cheap, Instagram post processing effect just like film grain and motion blur (and you know that people are also divided in regards to the usage of film grain and motion blur.

within the graphical options in video games. I just don't like the idea of this mode having a forced sharpening. Sharpening rarely works for monitor users, evidenced by people who go lenghts to disable forced sharpening in God of War and RDR 2 when DLSS brought forced sharpening alongside with it. Sharpening, when done in small doses, can be beneficial even for some monitor users, but in the case of FW, his screenshots look like fried chips on my screen compared to native 4k mode. I saw the exact foliage looking like fried chips in RDR2 whenever I tried any kind of sharpening.

It all comes down to the core issue Sony and their studios have: no regards or thoughts given for monitor users. No native1440p support, forced sharpening in such occasions that would look hideous on screen regardless if you zoom in or not, no VRR support for Freesync screens, practically forcing people into premium hdmi 2.1 TVs. list goes on. Probably why I will never get a PlayStation 5 or Xbox Series X (same applies for Sx and Halo Infinite, where their hideous sharpening filter is forced on. so you know that i'm not biased against anything. i'm just biased against sharpening itself)

So that's why maybe Alex called it hideous. Maybe he looked at the screenshots on his monitor. I'm just speculating at this point but you get the idea
 
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yamaci17

Member
Which would be what, 0.01% of the userbase? And I'm being generous there.
In the end, they're being deceptive, regardless. Why not apply the same sharpening filter for their quality mode?

If the said filter works so good for most people (to the point where they think performance mode looks better than quality mode), I guess they simply want to be praised for making such a performance mode? If so, it is being deceptive. If not, they just think that sharpening is not needed for the pristine, native 4k presentation for the quality mode. Pick your poison
 
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nowhat

Member
In the end, they're being deceptive, regardless. Why not apply the same sharpening filter for their quality mode?

If the said filter works so good for most people (to the point where they think performance mode looks better than quality mode), I guess they simply want to be praised for making such a performance mode? If so, it is being deceptive. If not, they just think that sharpening is not needed for the pristine, native 4k presentation for the quality mode. Pick your poison
I wasn't commenting on the sharpening filter (or lack thereof - with all due respect I'm waiting for external analysis), but why Sony doesn't support monitor users better. And the reason is very simple: there's very little financial incentive for them to do so. Remember folks, corporations may be people but they sure as hell ain't your friends.
 

yamaci17

Member
This if you cared about image quality at all,you would not get a monitor.

this is just moving goalposts at this point. most of you were in heavy denial about sharpening filter in the first place. now that you realized it is indeed a sharpening filter, you're skewing the narrative. go bother and troll someone else, I'm done with you and your friend

;)
 
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ParaSeoul

Banned
if you actually cared about intricate world details and expansive stories the devs create with so much attention, you would not play on a TV
have fun with your "filmic", "cinematic, devalued gaming experience
I don't know what you're trying to say? TV processing typically doesn't get used in game mode and the input lag is on par with monitors on high end tvs .
 

Vick

Member
Just played it, performance mode is greatly improved but they fucked it up by over sharpening it ... AGAIN.
Said no one ever, outside of a single user among thousands of finally happy and satisfied people and our discount Pai Mei which hasn't even played the game.

They significantly revamped TAA, along with the lower resolution no sharpening would translate into a much blurrier picture.. and no, thanks.
They could potentially add a toggle for some people who like to play with their TV sharpness at default or more, but on a calibrated panel this Mode looks perfect in motion because of how they integrated TAA and sharpening.

Just don't take 4K still screenshots though..
 

Filben

Member
As someone who played 30hours in resolution mode after switching back and forth a couple of times I'm now sticking to performance.

The differences aren't that noticeable anymore, barely, to be honest and especially not with the increased motion clarity and motion resolution performance mode gives.

The old, smudgy look is gone now and it looks way better than before and difference between resolution mode is miniscule now.

And it's not only a sharpening filter because there are no sharpening artefacts that would have been introduced with that and motion is also way smoother with less shimmering. Sharpening only can't do that.
 
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Said no one ever, outside of a single user among thousands of finally happy and satisfied people and our discount Pai Mei which hasn't even played the game.

They significantly revamped TAA, along with the lower resolution no sharpening would translate into a much blurrier picture.. and no, thanks.
They could potentially add a toggle for some people who like to play with their TV sharpness at default or more, but on a calibrated panel this Mode looks perfect in motion because of how they integrated TAA and sharpening.

Just don't take 4K still screenshots though..
No. I have a calibrated A90J 65". Its over sharpened, the way resolution mode was at release (was patched shortly after). Go read the OT. Performance mode is a lot better now, like a lot - its still over sharpened - whoever is in control at GG regarding final filter adjustments need to get their eyes checked.
 

Vick

Member
Its over sharpened, the way resolution mode was at release (was patched shortly after). Go read the OT.
Exactly, go read OT and how many people complained about the game blurrier post patch, asking Guerrilla to restore the original sharpness. You can even find examples on this very Thread:

What did they improved in resolution mode? it is sharp again like it was at day one?

And that was before the new TAA, with shimmering all over the place, and also before they fixed the sharpness brightness fluctuations.

whoever is in control at GG regarding final filter adjustments need to get their eyes checked.
I've read probably hundreds of posts between Reddit and here, 99.9% of people are not just satisfied with the mode now but actually over the moon with the way it looks.
 
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