Racer!
Member
Fact of the matter is, its pure greed, and its pure deceit. If youre ok with it, thats fine.
I`m not.
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God of War Sequel and Gran Turismo 7 are Cross Generation Titles
- Thread starter elliot5
- Start date
Fact of the matter is, its pure greed, and its pure deceit. If youre ok with it, thats fine.
I`m not.
Umbasaborne
Banned
What a load of shit. This now means that its gonna be another 5-7 years before we see a god of war game, gt or horizon that uses the ps5’s ssd and other features. Fucking snake oil salesman. They blatantly fucking lied last year.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Not from me. My main concern with the Xbox strat was tying series X down to an upscaled version of what Series S can do. Because that's an additional SKU in-between the last gen builds and Series X PC. That's a lot of balls to juggle, especially with MS messaging downplaying the possibility that any title would only be available on next-gen only.
I've always found it bewildering that people take these PR soundbites as absolute invariable statements of intent.
Sony said upfront they'd offer product and features only available on PS5, and they have done that. What they didn't say was every title was going to be PS5 only, that's just what dimwits misread their statement as. A statement that anyone with a lick of sense and understanding of industry practice would understand, as it would be blatantly moronic for them to abandon a 110m strong user-base at the start of a transition period and a logistical impossibility for them to supply different product for both sufficient to meet demand.
Seriously, I swear to God some people seem to be oblivious to the sheer time and resource cost of making games. You can't pull AAA product out of your asshole! It takes hundreds of devs and multiple years effort.
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PatientGamer
Member
To be fair, releasing games on PS4 is their best chance of trying to outsell the console king sitting tightly at 155 million sold. Also it makes a ton of sense for business. They also know the vast majority of people have no chance of getting their hands on a PS5, so releasing these games as PS5 only; makes very little sense. There is practically zero incentive or reason to release these games as PS5 exclusive as of Jun 3rd 2021.
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Forget business sense, Sony’s cross-gen U-turn is disappointing for PS5’s potential | VGC
Sony’s PS4 announcements mean we’ll likely have to wait for Mark Cerny’s SSD future…
www.videogameschronicle.com
GoW and Horizon were always cross gen, reportedly.
GT7 was a recent turnaround decision according to him.
ManaByte
Member
Are Xbox Series X developers being held back by Xbox One?
This is part of a series of features with Xbox Game Studios. Check out the teams discuss life as a Microsoft-owned comp…
www.gamesindustry.biz
PatientGamer
Member
Someone actually gets it!
Your reaching time to back away. Sony left 120 million ps2 users 80 million ps3 users close to 100 million ps1 users. Again it was about the honesty if they would of announced ps4 versions when the games were announced this wouldn't be an issue. They waited 4-16 months to reveal ps4 versions of games.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
EXACTLY! Thank you for expanding this conversation. So that we have each others attention and can agree on somethings. Here's where I think things went wrong for MS and that quote.
1. I don't think people believe Phil when he came back with that follow up statement. I think some people still believe that devs DON'T have the ability to truly make a next-gen Xbox Series ONLY game "AND" release it within the 1st year of the console being on shelves.
2. The media loves making stories more about the food fight, than actual truth. The truth is more than likely MS didn't have any 1st party next-gen only games that were going to be released on with the 1st year or 2 of the system being on store shelves, hence the original quote. It didn't mean MS mandated against it. It was just that those games weren't going to be ready for multiple reasons.
3. Being that the media loves to make quotes more into entertainment for the blogs and social sites than truth, they twisted what Jim Ryan said too. Jim Ryan said the following....
That statement does not say or mean that "We believe in generations" meant all our games will be on the PS5 only. But why present the truth that way when that's boring? It's more exciting and interesting to turn that quote into something it never was meant to mean.
4. Sony screwed up by not coming back out and fully explaining what that quote meant, when it was being taken out of context. But the reality is even if they did, most wouldn't care. In the same way most don't care about the follow up that Phil did in the quote you posted.
skit_data
Member
I don’t really blame people thinking most of their heavy hitters would be PS5 only, but I also find it moronic to say they explicitly said it would be PS5 only.
There is this middle ground where one can say
”Hey Sony, pretty shitty to imply its PS5 only, and to you guys actually thinking they said all new titles will be PS5 only; your interpretation of reality is not equal to the reality”
ManaByte
Member
Again you are cherry picking something to support your console war. Jimbo explained it perfectly clear:
Sony's Jim Ryan: “We are going to launch PS5 this holiday and we're going to launch globally"
"A great deal has happened since we last spoke. Terrible things happening in the world, which puts everything that you …
www.gamesindustry.biz
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Bartski
Gold Member
yet a lot of the discourse I see on the subject that defends this move is now about "scalable graphics".Forget business sense, Sony’s cross-gen U-turn is disappointing for PS5’s potential | VGC
Sony’s PS4 announcements mean we’ll likely have to wait for Mark Cerny’s SSD future…
GoW and Horizon were always cross gen, reportedly.
GT7 was a recent turnaround decision according to him.
This is not about the graphics. It's about a wasted creative potential on other fronts, physics, reactivity, AI, permanence, animation density, and so on.
The first wave of big 1st party releases will look amazing but mechanically they will be PS4 gen games with makeup, and that's a shame.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Which is why I stressed the significance of compatibility at the hardware level. PS2 was not compatible with PS1, it supported it as a piece of nested silicon (the PS2's IOP) but they were entirely different architectures. PS2 to PS3 was even worse, with more nesting of discrete components elevating it to the level of original PS3's being essentially 2 consoles sharing the same chassis and mobo. PS3 to PS4 was a clean break, without any provision for BC whatsoever.
PS4 to PS5 is basically an evolution/upgrade of the same architecture. Faster components but essentially the same AMD APU-based system.
Cleared_Hot
Member
No chance ps4 loads the same speed, and no chance they'll be able to load entire world's near instant ala r&c rift apart
ManaByte
Member
Dude you're making the exact same argument Microsoft was crucified for here last fall.
GhostOfTsu
Banned
I'm so tired of seeing this quote everywhere. It's crazy how people have absolutely zero reading comprehension and they just went with the headline. With Demons Souls, Ratchet and Clank and Returnal in the first year his quote is 100% true already. He never said all games will be PS5 only. There was no lie. How can people be this dumb?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Exactly.
All these heavy hitters like Horizon, GoW and GT7 will be held back with PS4 specs in mind. Even Spiderman MM which is an off shoot game is cross gen.
So far the only PS5 exclusives are R&C and a handful of smaller scale games. The next big one which is undetermined is Uncharted 5.
Aside from R&C and possibly Uncharted, H2, GoW and GT7 are set as cross gen. You wont get a dedicated PS5 sequel until their next games in 2027. Given Sony's game releases lately, many of them only have 1 game now per generation. So you might not even get a PS5 only game for them. You'd have to wait till PS6 in which that game might be a PS5/PS6 cross gen game.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I also have to point out that the real canary in the coalmine for Sony's strategy was Astro's Playroom. This is PS5 only NOT because its designed to do stuff in rendering or visual terms that could not be accomplished on PS4. It was all about the controller integration and haptics.
Some of you guys are just being too stubborn to admit you are fixated on a nebulous idea of what "next gen only" means in terms of design consequence and implementation. Haptics, advanced controller techniques, 3D audio design are all elements that are truly exclusively PS5 only, and can be simply integrated on top of a design that accommodates PS4. Like faster loading and smaller disk footprints being benefits of the advanced I/O stack that are equally unintrusive.
The fact is that saying that the other exciting functionality of the i/o stack (like essentially unlimited pseudo-VRAM) DO need to be explictly catered for in the game design, does not mean that its NECCESSARY to lean on that in all instances in order to produce a legitimately next-gen experience.
Some of you guys are just being too stubborn to admit you are fixated on a nebulous idea of what "next gen only" means in terms of design consequence and implementation. Haptics, advanced controller techniques, 3D audio design are all elements that are truly exclusively PS5 only, and can be simply integrated on top of a design that accommodates PS4. Like faster loading and smaller disk footprints being benefits of the advanced I/O stack that are equally unintrusive.
The fact is that saying that the other exciting functionality of the i/o stack (like essentially unlimited pseudo-VRAM) DO need to be explictly catered for in the game design, does not mean that its NECCESSARY to lean on that in all instances in order to produce a legitimately next-gen experience.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Astro's Playroom can have the best haptic feedback in the history of video games but zero people are going to treat that kind of game as a game taking advantage of true next gen specs.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
cormack12
Gold Member
Gives time for Aloy to lose those extra pounds I guess
Actually he's also completely wrong/false - PS4 first 2 years were littered with cross-buy titles for PS3/Vita, many of them first party. Amusingly it was also celebrated back then because people weren't used to buy-once, get multiple platforms, yet.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Their narrow-minded definition has no currency to me or anyone else dealing in facts and logic
The entire point of Astro's Playroom is that what made it special and interesting was the controller implementation and its consequences for gameplay. That's legit. Like it or not.
GuinGuin
Banned
I'm talking about the PS5 version... PS4 can get some loading screens.
GymWolf
Member
Boy i hope that all the sony spinners and apologist in here are gonna get a fat check at the end of the month, incredible work you guys, very entartaining.
Especially all the guys who still talk about mere graphic when all the people mad at sony are not talking about graphics when they shit over this crossgen bullshit, well i guess it's the only way to defend this shit or they just don't understand (on purpose)
Ssd was the new shifting paradigm in gaming until it's not anymore, funny how things change.
Another funny anectode, we are not gonna see an exclusive ps5 game from guerrilla and santa monica until 2025-2026 at best.
Cross of tsushima 2 is next, prepare your mirror climbing skills my sony comrades.
Especially all the guys who still talk about mere graphic when all the people mad at sony are not talking about graphics when they shit over this crossgen bullshit, well i guess it's the only way to defend this shit or they just don't understand (on purpose)
Ssd was the new shifting paradigm in gaming until it's not anymore, funny how things change.
Another funny anectode, we are not gonna see an exclusive ps5 game from guerrilla and santa monica until 2025-2026 at best.
Cross of tsushima 2 is next, prepare your mirror climbing skills my sony comrades.
GuinGuin
Banned
Well said. The Dualsense is full of incredible technology and made Astro's Playroom a true Next gen experience. I'm sure Guerilla and Santa Monica will do great things with it as well.
phat_crazy
Member
People are too eager to hug Sony's nuts
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LucidFlux
Member
Damn this is disappointing from the perspective of seeing the potential of the new consoles and pushing the video game medium forward, but it absolutely makes total business sense that the biggest titles would be cross generation for the first 2-3 years. Sigh, I'll get over it but it's a shame we are stuck having to wait 2-3 years post launch to really dive into the next generation.
SSD remains the new king. I haven't been impressed this much by new tech since N64 launched. Sorry you aren't having fun with a PS5 too. It's been an absolute blast so far on my end.
phat_crazy
Member
Hopefully we get at least one ps5 exclusive next year there has to be
Sony just means they will continue to make cross gen games but that doesn't mean every game will be cross gen
GuinGuin
Banned
All of the games will use the SSD and other features of PS5 in their PS5 versions. You can relax. It's not like you will see PS4 length loading times in GT7 if playing on PS5. They will be nearly instant.
sainraja
Member
Each generation the type of support has varied (based on what technology allows) but Sony has supported their previous generation of consoles when they have released a new one. They released God of War 2 near the end of the PS2's lifecyle (could have easily pushed it to the PS3, but yes, money was a factor, just like it is now). They released The Last of Us near the end of the PS3's lifecyle and there were other games too, just pointing out the notable ones that they published themselves.
Black_Mamba
Member
As someone who's played a lot of GT Sport, this is disappointing. PD will probably treat GT7 as a live service as they did with Sport, and release monthly content updates, so GT7 will be a long term project and maybe the only GT of this generation.
But thinking about how they would use the full power of PS5 on a racing game, I can imagine lots of ray tracing and much more detailed geometry for tracks, backgrounds and car models. If the simulation and physics aren't being limited by hardware power, hopefully they could still create a much worse looking GT7 on PS4 and still take full advantage of PS5 the way they envisioned it.
As for GoW, which I've never played any, when you think that new consoles are already behind a PC in terms of technology, maybe Sony should have picked this one, and not a cartoonish game like Ratchet, to be the one to take full advantage of the hardware. By the time they create a truly next gen game on PS5, faster SSDs and GPUs will be common for PC.
From the business perspective, of course it makes sense for them to keep exploring PS4, but they should be offering much more for PS5 users.
But thinking about how they would use the full power of PS5 on a racing game, I can imagine lots of ray tracing and much more detailed geometry for tracks, backgrounds and car models. If the simulation and physics aren't being limited by hardware power, hopefully they could still create a much worse looking GT7 on PS4 and still take full advantage of PS5 the way they envisioned it.
As for GoW, which I've never played any, when you think that new consoles are already behind a PC in terms of technology, maybe Sony should have picked this one, and not a cartoonish game like Ratchet, to be the one to take full advantage of the hardware. By the time they create a truly next gen game on PS5, faster SSDs and GPUs will be common for PC.
From the business perspective, of course it makes sense for them to keep exploring PS4, but they should be offering much more for PS5 users.
GymWolf
Member
And how having fun with my ps5 has anything to do with crossgen heavy hitters that are NOT gonna use the ssd fully other than faster loading times?!
Not to talk about the huge upgrade in the cpu side...
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GuinGuin
Banned
You don't know how they will use it. If Insomniac is using it to only load assets in view of the camera you can bet Santa Monica can pull the same trick on PS5 while using lower res assets loaded traditionally on the PS4 version.
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
Yep, also it does show as well with cross gen games the PS5 versions usually outsells the PS4 version as well AND people are willing to wait to get the PS5 version once they acquire a PS5, ala Miles Morales in the Uk and they received more shipments and how it jumped up the chart again.
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
Demon Souls remake and Returnal are small scale games....da fuck......
Umbasaborne
Banned
She doesn’t look fat, this is the same type of idiocracy that surrounded the “sjw’s made the girls in mass effect andromeda ugly!!!!” Conspiracy theory
someone gets it...not sure why people are so bent out of shape...they are most likely building on ps5 and down porting to ps4...if Horizon is any indication, then i don't think we have anything to worry about..why would they ignore 150m units to what 10 for the PS5? if there wasn't a shortage and people could readily buy the PS5 then i could see the negativity but the cost of these games, Sony has to make sure they're getting that money back and then some..simple math
cormack12
Gold Member
phil_t98
#SonyToo
because they were sold a device with a super powered SSD that would make the games impossible to run on last gen hardware and that game design wouldn't be limited anymore because of the SSD
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GymWolf
Member
Let me rephrase, they are not gonna use the ssd to make a ps5 game that can't run on a old ass 5400rpm mechnical hard disk, because you know, your friend cerny told us that some things are only possible with an ssd and there is no way around.
Was cerny lying?!
People were fantasizing about kratos and thor punching each other throught different dimensions thanks to the ssd...we can forget that shit now...
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LucidFlux
Member
Oh no doubt, there will be more sprinklings of PS5 exclusives until everything shifts over. It's just sad from the perspective of that these specific games had to be created with last gen in mind.
Umbasaborne
Banned
No but we will see level design built around the ps4’s limitations. Smallish areas, loading screen crawl spaces, little to no real verticality, biomes seprated by artificial loading hall ways, ect...
GuinGuin
Banned
Why don't you wait until we have seen a single image of the game before complaining about what it will or will not do? Perhaps you'll be surprised.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
yep.
why show off some amazing new trailers only to have the discussion dominated by “god of war is delayed AND cross gen”
smart move, they should have been transparent about this stuff way sooner
CeeJay
Member
I don't know how many times people can say to you that it's not the graphics it's the fact that if it's running on the PS4 then its not doing things that are only possible on PS5 like was promised. The games are designed to be scaled down to PS4 so unless the two versions are completely different then no matter how good it looks it's not reaching the PS5s potential.
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