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Hardware Platform Control UE File Size | PS5 Version is ~40% Smaller than Xbox Series X's

skit_data

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ADVICE:

Make sure you dont install both the PS4 and PS5 version of the game!
It took me a while to figure out I accidentaly installed both, making the game a whopping 60gb. Go into library, select delete and check if there are two versions of the game installed. You can safely delete the PS4 version without it affecting the PS5 version, just uncheck the PS5 version before pressing delete.
Cross posting this from the other thread, might save someone 30gb precious space.
 

Negotiator101

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No, you can't see that. What evidence do you have to support that claim -- other than your gut feeling?

On the other hand, PS5's decompressor tech is nearly 400% more powerful than XSX, which is a documented fact. And Control literally has decompressed more assets in the PS5 version.
Name one other game with such a big installation difference on both consoles, I'll wait.
 

3liteDragon

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I hope this becomes a trend. 25GB is really good.
It will.
Sony has previously published that the SSD is capable of 5.5 GB/s and expected decompressed bandwidth around 8-9 GB/s, based on measurements of average compression ratios of games around 1.5 to 1. While Kraken is an excellent generic compressor, it struggled to find usable patterns on a crucial type of content : GPU textures, which make up a large fraction of game content. Since then we've made huge progress on improving the compression ratio of GPU textures, with Oodle Texture which encodes them such that subsequent Kraken compression can find patterns it can exploit. The result is that we expect the average compression ratio of games to be much better in the future, closer to 2 to 1.
Good data compression also improves game download times, and lets you store more games on disk. Again the compression ratio acts as an effective multiplier for download speed and disk capacity. A game might use 80 GB uncompressed, but with 2 to 1 compression it only take 40 GB on disk, letting you store twice as many games. A smaller disk with better compression can hold more games than a larger disk with worse compression.

When a game needs data on PS5, it makes a request to the IO system, which loads compressed data from the SSD; that is then handed to the hardware Kraken decoder, which outputs the decompressed data the game wanted to the RAM. As far the game is concerned, they just get their decompressed data, but with higher throughput. On other platforms, Kraken can be run in software, getting the same compression gains but using CPU time to decode. When using software Kraken, you would first load the compressed data, then when that IO completes perform decompression on the CPU.


If the compression ratio was exactly 1.5 to 1, the 5.5 GB/s peak bandwidth of the SSD would decompress to 8.25 GB/s uncompressed bytes output from the Kraken decoder. Sony has estimated an average compression ratio of between 1.45 to 1 and 1.64 to 1 for games without Oodle Texture, resulting in expected decompressed bandwidth of 8-9 GB/s.

Since then, Sony has licensed our new technology Oodle Texture for all games on the PS4 and PS5. Oodle Texture lets games encode their textures so that they are drastically more compressible by Kraken, but with high visual quality . Textures often make up the majority of content of large games and prior to Oodle Texture were difficult to compress for general purpose compressors like Kraken.

The combination of Oodle Texture and Kraken can give very large gains in compression ratio.
Kraken plus Oodle Texture gets nearly double the compression of Zip alone on this texture set.

Oodle Texture is a software library that game developers use at content creation time to compile their source art into GPU-ready BC1-7 formats. All games use GPU texture encoders, but previous encoders did not optimize the compiled textures for compression like Oodle Texture does. Not all games at launch of PS5 will be using Oodle Texture as it's a very new technology, but we expect it to be in the majority of PS5 games in the future. Because of this we expect the average compression ratio and therefore the effective IO speed to be even better than previously estimated.
PS5 has a decompressor on the main chip solely dedicated to handling 5GB of Kraken format input data a second.
Remember that 22GB/s limit Cerny was talking about "if the data happens to compress particularly well"? This is what he was talking about, the 17.38GB/s read speed sounds like a realistic goal now as the compression ratio of Oodle+Kraken will improve over the course of this generation.

Also Epic Games recently acquired RAD Game Tools (people who developed Oodle and Kraken).
 
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Heisenberg007

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Name one other game with such a big installation difference on both consoles, I'll wait.
Name one other game where they changed the way data is handled, I'll wait.

Before this gen, all decompression was being done on the CPU. That's the reason why BC games aren't loading in 2-seconds on the PS5 as next-gen first-party games like Astrobot, Spider-Man, and Demon's Souls did, and instead takes 30 seconds to 60 seconds. Any improvements you see are solely because of the increase in CPU power. Their code is to use CPU for loading and storage, not the decompressor unit (because there wasn't any on the PS4/Xbox One).

Remedy changed the way data is handled for the Ultimate Edition -- which means it is no longer only relying on the CPU but also tapping into the decompressor units, if available.
 

onesvenus

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It's just an hardware decompression block and on CPU already existed something similar. You should at least to be a bit more specific if you can provide something of more, indeed to do vague claim about mystical dedicate hardware part on series X where aren't exactly revolutionary at all indeed to accuse to be Sony fanboy because we said just that.
Can you point to any off-the-shelf CPU having dedicated decompression hardware? It's true that some of them include compression/decompression instructions but those are not run using dedicated hardware.

And there's nothing mystical about the Xbox Series decompression block. It's not because it doesn't exist or because it's normal. It's not mystical because they have described what it does: It supports both LZ and the new BCPack compression algorithm so I can't see how it's a traditional decompression unit, whatever that is.
 

SkylineRKR

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Bigger news is that its 50% smaller than PS4 Pro version.

I'm hopeful the next CoD games will shrink as well. If these systems become the baseline it should be a given. I didn't think Black Ops was worth the purchase, but the insane install size was absolutely a part of this.
 

ethomaz

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They have even copyrighted the term velocity architecture..is all custom and rebuilted,that's why there's the poprietary external storage
Velocity Architecture is more about software.
The key part of it is the DirectStorage and SFS available for PC and Xbox... both are API software.

PS. Velocity Architecture requires a NVMe SSD drive to works.
 
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Negotiator101

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Name one other game where they changed the way data is handled, I'll wait.

Before this gen, all decompression was being done on the CPU. That's the reason why BC games aren't loading in 2-seconds on the PS5 as next-gen first-party games like Astrobot, Spider-Man, and Demon's Souls did, and instead takes 30 seconds to 60 seconds. Any improvements you see are solely because of the increase in CPU power. Their code is to use CPU for loading and storage, not the decompressor unit (because there wasn't any on the PS4/Xbox One).

Remedy changed the way data is handled for the Ultimate Edition -- which means it is no longer only relying on the CPU but also tapping into the decompressor units, if available.
Stop spreading fud, they haven't done it to the Series X, that is why the PS4 Pro has a lower installation size as well, unless you believe the Pro has better compression than the Series X? It's the PC code on the X, they are exactly the same size! This fanboy crap is starting to get ridiculous.
 
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Name one other game where they changed the way data is handled, I'll wait.

Before this gen, all decompression was being done on the CPU. That's the reason why BC games aren't loading in 2-seconds on the PS5 as next-gen first-party games like Astrobot, Spider-Man, and Demon's Souls did, and instead takes 30 seconds to 60 seconds. Any improvements you see are solely because of the increase in CPU power. Their code is to use CPU for loading and storage, not the decompressor unit (because there wasn't any on the PS4/Xbox One).

Remedy changed the way data is handled for the Ultimate Edition -- which means it is no longer only relying on the CPU but also tapping into the decompressor units, if available.
I think you are jumping to conclusions with the devs statements. All they said it's they changed the way data is handled. They didn't mention anything else. You are coming to a conclusion with very little data and seem way to sure you are right.
 
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ethomaz

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Now that the RAD tools will be fully incorporated to UE5 that will basically be the norm on PS5 games based in that engine.
The engine itself will to all the work if you compile to PS5.
 
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scydrex

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Stop spreading fud, they haven't done it to the Series X, that is why the PS4 Pro has a lower installation size as well, unless you believe the Pro has better compression than the Series X? It's the PC code on the X, they are exactly the same size! This fanboy crap is starting to get ridiculous.

Then why Days Gone on PS4 has a lower install size?
 
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ethomaz

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Stop spreading fud, they haven't done it to the Series X, that is why the PS4 Pro has a lower installation size as well, unless you believe the Pro has better compression than the Series X? It's the PC code on the X, they are exactly the same size! This fanboy crap is starting to get ridiculous.
All PS4/PS5 devs have free Oodle licences to use in their games.

BTW PS4 Pro version probably has lower quality assets compared with PS5/SeriesX.
 
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MonarchJT

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Velocity Architecture is more about software.
The key part of it is the DirectStorage and SFS available for PC and Xbox... both are API software.

PS. Velocity Architecture requires a NVMe SSD drive to works.
velocity architecture is ...hw decompressors....hw sfs ..nvme ssd + direct access from gpu to the first 100 gb of ssd + direct storage software
 
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Heisenberg007

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I think you are jumping to conclusions with the devs statements. All they said it's they changed the way data is handled. They didn't mention anything else. You are coming to a conclusion with very little data and seem way to sure you are right.
And how would you explain this delta?
 

Heisenberg007

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Stop spreading fud, they haven't done it to the Series X, that is why the PS4 Pro has a lower installation size as well, unless you believe the Pro has better compression than the Series X? It's the PC code on the X, they are exactly the same size! This fanboy crap is starting to get ridiculous.
I agree.
 
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ethomaz

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velocity architecture is ...hw decompressors....hw sfs ..nvme ssd + direct access from gpu to the first 100 gb of ssd + direct storage software
SFS is software.
DirectStorage is software.
NVME SSD is hardware.
HW decompressor is hardware.

The key parts are the software DirectStorage and SFS that are available on PC.
PC has NVME SDD hardware too.
 
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Negotiator101

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All PS4/PS5 devs have free Oodle licences to use in their games.

BTW PS4 Pro version probably has lower quality assets compared with PS5/SeriesX.
Ok Xbox One X version? Oh 42gb same as PC and Series X. Series console have very advanced compression features also. Like I said point me to any other game with a big installation difference and I'll concede. We just don't have enough information to go on at the moment.
 

Heisenberg007

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Ok Xbox One X version? Oh 42gb same as PC and Series X. Series console have very advanced compression features also. Like I said point me to any other game with a big installation difference and I'll concede. We just don't have enough information to go on at the moment.
As I said earlier, this is the only game we know so far that has updated its data-handling methods from the previous gen. Show me a game that has updated its data-handling method, and I'll show you a game with an installation difference.

You are denying this without pointing to another more logical explanation -- just because there are no games with this difference, as if this can't be the first.
 
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And how would you explain this delta?
Does the series x not have hardware decompression? Thought it did. It being basically the exact same size as Xbox one and PC makes it seem they are all a similar version while ps5 is different. Why we don't know but I know your certainty even if you turn out to be right is premature.
 

RevenantX

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Are you saying the Velocity Architecture is not being used as of now?
Definitely not by Remedy. Control is a PC port running on low settings.

And whoever posted that SX made up of a off the shelves part needs to see a a doctor for brain treatment. Every part in SX is custom build.
 
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Gatox

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As I said earlier, this is the only game we know so far that has updated its data-handling methods from the previous gen. Show me a game that has updated its data-handling method, and I'll show you a game with an installation difference.

You are denying this without pointing to another more logical explanation -- just because there are no games with this difference, as if this can't be the first.
The fact its the same size on the older Xbox, the PC and the new Xbox that all share a platform then the only logical explanation is its the exact same code.
 
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Heisenberg007

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Does the series x not have hardware decompression? Thought it did. It being basically the exact same size as Xbox one and PC makes it seem they are all a similar version while ps5 is different. Why we don't know but I know your certainty even if you turn out to be right is premature.
The Series X does have hardware decompression. No one denies that, but it is a documented fact that its capabilities are 4x-5x less than the PS5. The PC version does not even come into this equation at all -- because PC games usually have different resolution textures etc.

There is only one question: both XSX and PS5 have near-identical versions. PS5 compiles the same game in 25GB. Xbox compiles the same game in 42 GB. How?

What is the first answer that comes to your mind?
 

Shmunter

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Does the series x not have hardware decompression? Thought it did. It being basically the exact same size as Xbox one and PC makes it seem they are all a similar version while ps5 is different. Why we don't know but I know your certainty even if you turn out to be right is premature.
I know it's a meme at this point. But maybe the tools aren't setup yet for the hardware decompression block. Sounds crazy, but it's MS
 

Heisenberg007

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The fact its the same size on the older Xbox, the PC and the new Xbox that all share a platform then the only logical explanation is its the exact same code.
That could have been, but it is not the case here. "The version of our engine in the next-gen Control is way different to the version used in the previous gen Control."

If the engine version is different, how could the code be the "exact same code." so it matches the Xbox One version size.
 

Lysandros

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Now that the RAD tools will be fully incorporated to UE5 that will basically be the norm on PS5 games based in that engine.
The engine itself will to all the work if you compile to PS5.
Do you think it will also translate to faster loading/real world data throughput in third party games for PS5? This is desperately needed right now.
 
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Shmunter

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That could have been, but it is not the case here. "The version of our engine in the next-gen Control is way different to the version used in the previous gen Control."

If the engine version is different, how could the code be the "exact same code." so it matches the Xbox One version size.
"please buy our remaster, we've rebuilt it from the ground up" (TM)
 

Negotiator101

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You obviously don't as you've been spreading fud through out this thread, quoting numbers from more intelligent people than you or I, while not knowing what any of it actually means.
As I said earlier, this is the only game we know so far that has updated its data-handling methods from the previous gen. Show me a game that has updated its data-handling method, and I'll show you a game with an installation difference.

You are denying this without pointing to another more logical explanation -- just because there are no games with this difference, as if this can't be the first.
You have zero knowledge that this is the only game, you are speculating and further more inferring that the Series X has the same compression as an Xbox One! As it has the same install size, you know how silly that sounds?

This will be my last comment on the matter but let's say we had PS5 version at 25gb, if the Series X version was 30g, from that you could deduce that the PS5 has better compression. What we actually have is no difference on Series X, which makes no sense if thay were using its compression hardware/software, wouldn't you agree?
 
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ethomaz

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Do you think it will also translate to faster loading/real world data throughput in third party games for PS5? This is desperately needed right now.
That is one of the focus of the new UE5.

Edit - Fixed the quote.
 
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The Series X does have hardware decompression. No one denies that, but it is a documented fact that its capabilities are 4x-5x less than the PS5. The PC version does not even come into this equation at all -- because PC games usually have different resolution textures etc.

There is only one question: both XSX and PS5 have near-identical versions. PS5 compiles the same game in 25GB. Xbox compiles the same game in 42 GB. How?

What is the first answer that comes to your mind?
Small dev team ran out of time. But I doubt that's the reason since honestly we have no concrete facts for the reason other then ps5 is smaller then PC, Xbox one and Xbox series which oddly enough are all basically the same size. Again you could be right but it's your certainty that is wrong. You are telling people they are wrong and you are right with literally 1 price of circumstantial evidence.
 
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ethomaz

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And I'll expect similar install size on both consoles when UE5 games hit.
I believe there will be different because the RAD stronger compression on PS5.
UE5 will probably do compile frags different for PS5... that is basically what the engine does.

Multipatform engines have different code path for each platform.

It is just transparent to developers... they just use the engine and everything is done automatically... Unreal Engine is very good at that abstraction level.
 
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Heisenberg007

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Small dev team ran out of time. But I doubt that's the reason since honestly we have no concrete facts for the reason other then ps5 is smaller then PC, Xbox one and Xbox series which oddly enough are all basically the same size. Again you could be right but it's your certainty that is wrong. You are telling people they are wrong and you are right with literally 1 price of circumstantial evidence.
I am not saying I'm right, and everyone else is wrong. I'm just saying that this seems like the most logical explanation. At least, we have some evidence for it (hardware specs + developer quote). We don't have any evidence for scenarios like they just copied the PC code, they forgot to compress the Xbox version, the team ran out of time, etc.
 
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Negotiator101

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I believe there will be different because the RAD stronger compression on PS5.
UE5 will probably do compile frags different for PS5... that is basically what the engine does.

Multipatform engines have different code path for each platform.

It is just transparent to developers... they just use the engine and everything is done automatically... Unreal Engine is very good at that abstraction level.
We shall see my friend, I believe otherwise but difference of opinion is healthy, both these consoles have very exciting features.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Yup, via Kraken alone it should be 29% smaller than ZLIB, not to mention Oodle Textures.

 
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kuncol02

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If the engine version is different, how could the code be the "exact same code." so it matches the Xbox One version size.
Super easy barely an inconvenience.
You just need to change version number in assembly info and that way you have new version with exact same code. Software versions are unrelated to changes in code.
 

Heisenberg007

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Super easy barely an inconvenience.
You just need to change version number in assembly info and that way you have new version with exact same code. Software versions are unrelated to changes in code.
Ryan George No GIF by Sheets & Giggles
 
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Negotiator101

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Yup, via Kraken alone it should be 29% smaller than ZLIB, not to mention Oodle Textures.

BCPack.