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[phil_t98]

They lie

do you have proof of that?

 

[Bulletbrain]

Yes, should be faster. The fact PS5 is so close to XsX and XsX is so close to pc nvme says it all.

They have rejiggered parts, but not all.

Lol okay. Gotcha.

 

[Shmunter]

do you have proof of that?

Yes, it’s in front of us.

3 platforms showing such close loading times proves a common bottleneck between the 3. The bespoke i/o is not it for obvious reasons.

 

[Bulletbrain]

Main bound of what it can be on the screen (after moving to SSD) is GPU and memory RAM/VRAM subsystem. The thing is most people overlook, is that pute data bandwidth is not enough, you have to schedule your task in a way which supports peak efficiency. Let's say that consoles still does not have AFx16, which is standard on PCs for a 20 and no it's not some special procedure, it's a toggle in OpenGL ES (mobile), DirectX as well as Vulkan. So it's not shared it's not some crazy algorythm, it's toggle for ROPs. I know the PR is wonderful thing, but simple real world scenarios does not really proved to be properly utilised it, not that ti does not work, but that you have a lor of other contraints, mainly.....drumroll....people. Optimalisation is not easy thing to do and before they do some super advance profiler, which is going to be powered by neural network and which structure everything in a way which going to alow for all these crazy numbers to be utilised. But than againt, that's againts the the manufactuers need, you can see how much you paying for 20-30% extra power.

And again something from my experience, sound and animations are biggest offender to memory. You can put textures relatively easily to a surface. But damn it's hard to get a standard sounds without effect, slap it with some effect, position it in the world and made it sounds real. Obviously shaders are expensive, but that's the thing of compute. But than again compute needs fast memory, bandwidth, not SSD bandwidth but RAM type one. Presumably you have it with GDDR6 memories, good right? No not really because GDDR6 (not X) have pretty bad latency, so you have to schedule all the operations, because if you fire up the operation, it's impossible to start another one. GDDR6X mitigate it to certain degree, however they are power hungry and expensive so far. Still nobody runs whole system on just GPU.

Good writeup! You sound like you have some experience in game development. Have you been involved in any games we might know of?

 

[Thirty7ven]

Animations are indeed a much overlooked aspect! And I understand your point about having access to a variety of animations that can be loaded in an instance. My doubt is the fact that these animations still have to be rendered out. Complex animations need complex models "perform" them. See in hitman, the LOD setting actually reduces the animation update rate of far away NPC's, not due to I/O constraints, but to save on rendering budget. When we are already close to maxing out the render budget (like in control) there is not much more a SSD with all its benefits in terms of access and availability of assets can do.

But let's see, maybe some Dev will surprise us, who knows?

Limitations exist of course, but please don’t use Control as a benchmark. And the point of streaming is that data doesn’t need to be resident in RAM for more than it needs. You are only thinking about what’s in the frame at a given moment, when this is as much about what happens next. If you can’t swap data fast enough, you get stuck with the same data for longer than you would’ve liked...

And you should read on motion matching and how data and memory was the number 1 question for Ubisoft. With seek times at almost 0 and with as little latency as the I/O on PS5 offers, you can start painting a picture of the possibilities on animation alone... Naughty Dog is going to hit a new peak.

 

[phil_t98]

Yes, it’s in front of us.

3 platforms showing such close loading times proves a common bottleneck between the 3. The bespoke i/o is not it for obvious reasons.

but they said its different to last gen version you call them liars with no proof other load time?

 

[skit_data]

ADVICE:

Make sure you dont install both the PS4 and PS5 version of the game!
It took me a while to figure out I accidentaly installed both, making the game a whopping 60gb. Go into library, select delete and check if there are two versions of the game installed. You can safely delete the PS4 version without it affecting the PS5 version, just uncheck the PS5 version before pressing delete.

 

[Shmunter]

but they said its different to last gen version you call them liars with no proof other load time?

Yes, it’s bogged down by last gen techniques, not fully built for next gen I/o.

Different doesn’t mean 100% different I’m sure you’ll agree. Or maybe you won’t, who cares, lol.

 

[M1chl]

Good writeup! You sound like you have some experience in game development. Have you been involved in any games we might know of?

Kingdom Come: Deliverance. But I wasn't really really anything more than did support job, QA, but I was at those meeting where we discussed the challenges. Also helped did some animations for Amanita Design and also sound loading (but that was flash, so it was not anything advance - my High School teacher is guy who does animation in Amanita and we are small country - or Rather everyone involved is from Prague).

 

[Bulletbrain]

Limitations exist of course, but please don’t use Control as a benchmark. And the point of streaming is that data doesn’t need to be resident in RAM for more than it needs. You are only thinking about what’s in the frame at a given moment, when this is as much about what happens next. If you can’t swap data fast enough, you get stuck with the same data for longer than you would’ve liked...

You are talking about scenarios where completely different scenes happen within a few seconds of each other? So then every few frames, a whole load of new assets needs to be in the memory ready to go. I can think of two such scenes; one is the cyberpunk montage, and the other the dimension hopping scene from ratchet and clank. But these kinds of scenes are not what general gameplay is made out of.

 

[llien]

How is this bad PR?

How is badmouthing RT perf of a console based on... nothing a bad PR, is that really the question?

Guess what, as DF (totally not shills, just look like ones) itself has figured that from 4 steps they've figure exist in regards to RT-ing, actually only one is hardware accelerated (on any GPU). So there are 3 other steps of intense, vendor specific shader optimization kamasutra, that has absolutely nothing to do with RT.

 

[Thirty7ven]

You are talking about scenarios where completely different scenes happen within a few seconds of each other? So then every few frames, a whole load of new assets needs to be in the memory ready to go. I can think of two such scenes; one is the cyberpunk montage, and the other the dimension hopping scene from ratchet and clank. But these kinds of scenes are not what general gameplay is made out of.

No that’s not what I mean. What I mean is that the pool of animation you can pull from is suddenly much wider because the latency is low enough. You are not stuck with the same data for seconds, therefore forced to reuse constantly. This will be highly liberating to developers.

Stop thinking I’m terms of swapping the whole data in RAM can do. Ratchet is doing that, right? It’s impressive sure, but as you say you can’t make a whole game around that. That’s just one possibility.

On PS5 as an example:

Is there a limit to the amount of animation you can have in a moment? Answer: Depends on how large the ram pool is.

Is there a limit to how diverse sequence of animations can be? Answer: Depends on how much storage you got.

This will all be made clear in the very near future. The problem is that this part of game production isn’t widely talked about, people are usually more focused on lighting and special effects, because that’s what you can easily see and what sites like DF focus on.

 

[DustQueen]

Let's take time, relax and appreciate Series S version.
Allot of hard work went into this work of art

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Good writeup! You sound like you have some experience in game development. Have you been involved in any games we might know of?

That is a great way to invalidate an argument someone made, just attack the character if you can't say anything and you win!

 

[onnextflix5]

Im going blind, i can barely tell the difference between pc and ps5? Image looks soft on both.

 

[JackMcGunns]

Another example of some fine console "optimization" here. Directly from Remedy. No guess work involved.

WRONG

Spoiler

It's definintely custom, because some settings on PS5 are lower than LOW. HA!

 

[Bulletbrain]

That is a great way to invalidate an argument someone made, just attack the character if you can't say anything and you win!

Huh? But I agreed with him and he has worked on KCD? No need for fake outrage now.

 

[kuncol02]

Let's take time, relax and appreciate Series S version.
Allot of hard work went into this work of art

It can look terrible on everything. There is something seriously fundamentally wrong with how Remedy engine handle light and shadows which is shame because outside of that it's great game.

 

[Bulletbrain]

No that’s not what I mean. What I mean is that the pool of animation you can pull from is suddenly much wider because the latency is low enough. You are not stuck with the same data for seconds, therefore forced to reuse constantly. This will be highly liberating to developers.

Stop thinking I’m terms of swapping the whole data in RAM can do. Ratchet is doing that, right? It’s impressive sure, but as you say you can’t make a whole game around that. That’s just one possibility.

On PS5 as an example:

Is there a limit to the amount of animation you can have in a moment? Answer: Depends on how large the ram pool is.

Is there a limit to how diverse sequence of animations can be? Answer: Depends on how much storage you got.

This will all be made clear in the very near future. The problem is that this part of game production isn’t widely talked about, people are usually more focused on lighting and special effects, because that’s what you can easily see and what sites like DF focus on.

You are still ignoring the cost of rendering these animations out in my opinion. But let's wait and see.

 

[Thirty7ven]

You are still ignoring the cost of rendering these animations out in my opinion. But let's wait and see.

The question is, why are you adding the cost? They aren’t being rendered at the same time.

Are you adding the cost when it comes to geometry? Why would it be rendering geometry that isn’t there anymore? Same goes for animation.

 

[SlimySnake]

Let's take time, relax and appreciate Series S version.
Allot of hard work went into this work of art

Seems they put in the same amount of effort Microsoft put in designing the series s.

I don't know why you are expecting a 4 tflops gpu to do well in this game.

 

[DustQueen]

It can look terrible on everything. There is something seriously fundamentally wrong with how Remedy engine handle light and shadows which is shame because outside of that it's great game.

I think it captures reality in all of it's beautiful richness

 

[Gatox]

The whole thing looks and sounds like a half arsed cash grab, I started playing it no the last gen but stopped to wait for this gen, doubt I`ll even bother now.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

We're seeing games around 3060 or better performance already and, as is the case every generation, as time goes on further optimisation will continue to provide better results on console, while those equivalent PC specs fall behind.

Like last gen, where at first a 750 ti was more than enough to match or exceed the PS4, but was woefully inadequate in the last few years.

But yes, anyone wanting the maximum possible settings isn't getting that with a $400 PS5. If you want the absolute best, you need to pony up the few grand needed for it and keep doing so each year as those parts become out of date.

That could definitely be the case, but I had a feeling that at least in RT Nvidia should still be superior for a while, unless DirectML start to work its magic…

 

[kuncol02]

I think it captures reality in all of it's beautiful richness

Even on SeriesX standard version was shimmering mess of temporary artifacts. I have no idea how somebody could think that it was great idea to calculate light in such way.

 

[Thomish]

The whole thing looks and sounds like a half arsed cash grab, I started playing it no the last gen but stopped to wait for this gen, doubt I`ll even bother now.

It's free on PS+.

 

[BatSu]

 

[Bulletbrain]

The question is, why are you adding the cost? They aren’t being rendered at the same time.

Are you adding the cost when it comes to geometry? Why would it be rendering geometry that isn’t there anymore? Same goes for animation.

I will fully admit that I don't have the technical knowledge to give you an informed answer. My brain can't process how this might be used in the future

What I can process is the actual quantified results of games that have been released and tested thus far. These have shown only a marginal benefit from the PS5 SSD, mostly translating to a few seconds faster load times. But there are plenty of people like you who believe the real benefits will only come further down the line. Let's wait until we see some real tangible examples that are more than just a few seconds faster load times. Then only we can have a informed discussion on game design and true benefits of fast SSD centric development, and analyze the various positives/negatives (if any) that happen consequently. Right now we are all just theory casting/speculating based on very incomplete information.

 

[Thirty7ven]

It’s not really theory, the U5 tech demo is out. Don’t focus too much on the SSD part, focus on the whole I/O block.

It’s a paradigm shift in game production so expecting launch games to be fully up to speed is naive. Ubisoft, one of the leading actors in the field has said that they have to re think and restructure their data management systems to take advantage of the new tech. There’s a reason for this...

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

If you want the absolute best, you need to pony up the few grand needed for it and keep doing so each year as those parts become out of date.

That part is false, a high end PC built in 2020 does not need to be upgraded with "a few grand" each year to stay current. This notion that a gpu/cpu becomes immediately irrelevant the second a new one is announced is laughable.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Can`t remember a gen where a consoles could actually stand side by side with high end PCs at launch.
Nothing new here.

Consoles are low budget hardware after all.

Nes, super Nintendo, PlayStation, PlayStation 2, Xbox 360. To name a few.

 

[Silent Viper]

Both versions looks and run good but seems like IO issues or some other optimisation issue causes 1 or 2 fps drop on SX for like milliseconds during intense scenes. Its not a big deal but you know Sony fanboys already popping those fireworks as we speak lol

 

[iorek21]

Is there a way to disable step rumble without turning off vibration completely? I find it SO ANNOYING, jeez.

 

[Shmunter]

That pop in on the PC version!!! Do we know if it's running off an NVME?

 

[Silent Viper]

Miles Morales out there rocking RT, destruction, 4K, particles up the whazoo, higher detail models, open world... but clowns want Control to be anything other than small tits port.

Low quality RT even in Miles Morales. Go play Cyberpunk on beast PC or control or Metro Exodus with full RT effects in action with DLSS. You will forget Miles RT.

 

[Thirty7ven]

High end pcs weren’t as high end as they are now. Nobody was out there mulling whether or not a 700$ card is medium range or medium high range... you couldn’t buy a 1.5k graphics card for gaming.

Low quality RT even in Miles Morales. Go play Cyberpunk on beast PC or control or Metro Exodus with full RT effects in action with DLSS. You will forget Miles RT.

I am playing Cyberpunk with RT on. But I wasn’t comparing MM to Cyberpunk. And if I were, more than RT would’ve have to be compared. Cyberpunk has awful LOD, janky animations, poor destruction.

But you know that Cyberpunk having better RT doesn’t mean anything for A) Control on PS5 and B) for Xbox.

 

[Silent Viper]

That pop in on the PC version!!! Do we know if it's running off an NVME?

SSD doesn't always mean no popins. Control has issues on PC, it suffers from minor drops here and there on PCs. SX seems like a direct port of PC since both use Windows based OS and Direct X.


Which also explains why size is same as PC version on SX.

 

[Spukc]

Is there a way to disable step rumble without turning off vibration completely? I find it SO ANNOYING, jeez.

i noticed that too..
seems so dumb

 

[THE DUCK]

Main reason i would want to upgrade really. if nvidia drops a actual half decent upgrade of a card on the market.

More like if you could actually find one to buy......decent ones do exist you just can't buy them.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Huh? But I agreed with him and he has worked on KCD? No need for fake outrage now.

 

[Lethal01]

Yeah, stick a cube map on it, done.

Cubemap only looks good in a game that isn't filled with 80% dynamic objects that you can't include in it.

 

[isoRhythm]

As I said earlier, this is a smash and grab port. Nothing more

pretty much

 

[TGO]

Thought I'd share those for anybody that wanna know what it like on PS5 before downloading
As there seems to be a lot of shitty pics in here for some reason

Direct form the PS5

I say if you played the PS4 this is a big upgrade

 

[Shmunter]

Cubemap only looks good in a game that isn't filled with 80% dynamic objects that you can't include in it.

Disagree, accuracy is secondary to the illusion of a reflective surface on balance

 

[Bulletbrain]

Still have no idea what you are on about dude

 

[ButchCat]

Let's take time, relax and appreciate Series S version.
Allot of hard work went into this work of art

One of the reasons why I discontinued playing it on the PS4, that shimmering effect plagued the game.

I hope they continue optimization on this game to improve image quality, it still feels a bit grainy.

 

[Pachi72]

I wished Sony made 2 different consoles. A 10TF and a 17TF for like $800

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

I'm sorry, but my honest opinion is this looks really underwhelming on PS5. It's a much softer, grainier, messier image than what I can play on PC. I know, I know, I know what you are going to say. I am NOT PCMR Edge Lord, I know this is 400 dollar budget hardware.

I wasn't expecting it to beat a 3080, but stuff like small items popping in 12 feet in front of me, shoddy textures around the office environments, input lag in RT mode, terrible artifacting around the character model in non-RT mode (this is really immersion breaking and something I never saw in 30 hours playing it on PC). Again, the low settings show up big time if you are used to playing it at 1440p maxed out. It's not nowhere near as clean an image.

I am using headphones, as I always do, and the audio isn't impressing me either, which is basically a first for a PS5 game, every other game impresses me (some more than others, but still).

do you have proof of that?

Just FYI, the guy you are replying to is a hardcore PS5 stan who never admits when he is wrong. He claims expertise yet almost universally, when he is proven wrong or questioned (which happens regularly), just resorts to "well, it's actually obvious, what's wrong with you?" vague condescending gaslighting-esque deflection responses, or tells you you need mental help (read some of his interactions with VFX Vet). You're wasting your time trying to reason with him. He will repeat the same misinformation over and over and over and just blame you for not seeing things as he does.

Huge disspointment for me.

Playing both versions on XSX I'm not wowed by the upgrade but I am grateful.

I dont think it was worth waiting for.

Just played for about half an hour on the PS5.

Not really impressed. Looks significantly worse than the game running on my 2070 and the controller support feels undercooked.

It's definitely a disappointment. Unfortunately. IMO, of course.

One of my biggest gaming pet peeves is pop-in. The UE5 demo got me all excited about eliminating it this gen so I guess we just gotta wait for that engine to be released. Having to run Control with LOD lower than low seems...off, to me

But yes, anyone wanting the maximum possible settings isn't getting that with a $400 PS5. If you want the absolute best, you need to pony up the few grand needed for it and keep doing so each year as those parts become out of date.

This is not true. An old i7 with an old 1080 Ti combo was good for high end PC gaming for 6 years. Someone building a PC this year can buy a 5900x CPU and a 3080 and you won't need to upgrade for the next 5+ years.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Northlight is an engine with an amazing potencial, but Remedy is a small team and the optimization is crap, they need to be included in a bigger network of studios ASAP.

 

[Entroyp]

I wonder if MS sent them a script for this video too