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[Markio128]

how many do you expect GT to sell?

also when Xbox games aka halo was affected by Covid the masses of Sony fans in here had a great time. Yeah Covid has screwed over but doing cross gen games even more labour intensive unless they doing crappy upgrades to ps5 version

Tbh, I think a full fat GT7 could potentially be the biggest seller in the franchise.

MS seemed to be happy to release Craig to the internet and I certainly would not put the poor design of a single enemy down to covid19. If a developer wants to rush a game out of the door too early than that is their prerogative because nobody was forcing them to release the game.

All I know is that if somebody had said to me that the latest Horizon game was PS5 only, the latest gameplay would not have made me believe any differently. I’m sure that both GOW2 and GT7 will look spectacular on the PS5, so I’m not really concerned.

 

[GuinGuin]

Tbh, I think a full fat GT7 could potentially be the biggest seller in the franchise.

MS seemed to be happy to release Craig to the internet and I certainly would not put the poor design of a single enemy down to covid19. If a developer wants to rush a game out of the door too early than that is their prerogative because nobody was forcing them to release the game.

All I know is that if somebody had said to me that the latest Horizon game was PS5 only, the latest gameplay would not have made me believe any differently. I’m sure that both GOW2 and GT7 will look spectacular on the PS5, so I’m not really concerned.

GT7 is going to sell like crazy. Saying a racing game will be held back by cross gen is as ridiculous as saying a fighting game would be.

 

[phil_t98]

I was referring to destruction and weather. Ray tracing can obviously be added for the PS5 version like many other cross gen games have done.

yeah but unless they have two different versions of the game the ps5 version will suffer by the destruction models and weather abilities that are done on PS4.

againi ain’t saying cross gen is bad, I am made up I can wait for my ps5 but it’s not how Sony presented how games would be

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Saying a racing game will be held back by cross gen is as ridiculous as saying a fighting game would be.

nah, it will be most constrained of this big 3 titles because of weak ps4 cpu, we can forget about improvement in physics, car numbers during race, damage model etc.

 

[phil_t98]

Tbh, I think a full fat GT7 could potentially be the biggest seller in the franchise.

MS seemed to be happy to release Craig to the internet and I certainly would not put the poor design of a single enemy down to covid19. If a developer wants to rush a game out of the door too early than that is their prerogative because nobody was forcing them to release the game.

All I know is that if somebody had said to me that the latest Horizon game was PS5 only, the latest gameplay would not have made me believe any differently. I’m sure that both GOW2 and GT7 will look spectacular on the PS5, so I’m not really concerned.

so for halo, there was a lot they said was still to be added to the game such as raytracing and better lighting. Obviously things like that were affected by Covid as they said it was coming to the game. Craig thing fair enough but it was an open world halo as they said. Not defending it but when you read on what was to be added it’s good it got delayed but Covid defiantly affected it

GT sport sold 3.3 million copies in its first week and sold 8 million in the first 2 years, I think they would still be capable of hitting those units on ps5 in the same timescale

 

[GuinGuin]

nah, it will be most constrained of this big 3 titles because of weak ps4 cpu, we can forget about improvement in physics, car numbers during race, damage model etc.

Plenty of PS4 games have all that. Wreckfest alters the number of players from the PS4 to PS5 version.

 

[ZywyPL]

I honestly think there will be 2 GT games on ps5 if am honest. Once they have the first out they will fine tune there tech and get about her out befor the end of ps5s lifespan

You really think they will be able to overhaul all the physics, collisions, AI, sounds etc. within just a few years from the ground up for PS5?

 

[Markio128]

so for halo, there was a lot they said was still to be added to the game such as raytracing and better lighting. Obviously things like that were affected by Covid as they said it was coming to the game. Craig thing fair enough but it was an open world halo as they said. Not defending it but when you read on what was to be added it’s good it got delayed but Covid defiantly affected it

GT sport sold 3.3 million copies in its first week and sold 8 million in the first 2 years, I think they would still be capable of hitting those units on ps5 in the same timescale

The whole Craig thing was a bit of fun, a bit like the recent Aloy chubby face malarkey, but Halo will still be a great game for fans and one that I am hoping to play myself at some point. They just showed the game too early and you can’t have the same concerns about what Sony showed with Horizon.

 

[phil_t98]

You really think they will be able to overhaul all the physics, collisions, AI, sounds etc. within just a few years from the ground up for PS5?

you really think they only worked on the ps5 version a few years? They will have had Dev kits long befor anybody else and if they haven’t they will of been told what to expect the specs of ps5 to be.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Plenty of PS4 games have all that. Wreckfest alters the number of players from the PS4 to PS5 version.

the only way is to separate player base from ps4 and ps5 and release like separate games, but its polyphony, so no fastest dev in the world, simple I don't belive it will be the case

 

[phil_t98]

The whole Craig thing was a bit of fun, a bit like the recent Aloy chubby face malarkey, but Halo will still be a great game for fans and one that I am hoping to play myself at some point. They just showed the game too early and you can’t have the same concerns about what Sony showed with Horizon.

to be honest I haven’t played the first one, I have only seen a bit of the second one. It looked good and looked like a Sony game to me. Some things looked ok on it but if am honest I think I was expecting a bit more. No idea what that was

for me even though I not a big fan of god of war I am excited to see what the next one looks like, the PS4 game was stunning and I am expecting the next one to blow me away looks wise

 

[Yoboman]

more slow elevator rides, slow walks, portal realm to masks loading for the PS4?

That was my number one want for GOW to be done with those

I guess they could just cut them out entirely for PS5 and slot those conversations they use to fill up time in the portal somewhere else in the world

Would actually be a neat and tangible showing of the difference in console speed

But we still aren’t going to get the instant realm shifting that GOW 2018 was originally envisioned to have.

I suppose it doesn’t matter though. Instant realm shifting sounded amazingly cool a few years ago but the way things are going it’s going to be the next dual wielding/wall hugging/rag doll physics of overused mechanics that end up in every game

 

[CeeJay]

Uuuugh.... what are you even talking about?

Why are you trying to make a false equivalency between a cross-gen game and a BC game?

Or is it that you can't grasp that there's a difference between them at all?

Yeah of course I know the difference. PS5 awkwardly runs a downclocked hardware profile for bc to mimic a PS4 whereas a native PS5 game can use the full hardware unless the game also has to run on PS4.

 

[Clear]

Yeah of course I know the difference. PS5 awkwardly runs a downclocked hardware profile for bc to mimic a PS4 whereas a native PS5 game can use the full hardware unless the game also has to run on PS4.

No. There are PS4 and PS5 builds. A PS4 build with full forwards compatibility is the same data and executable regardless of what the host hardware is; it simply detects which is which and unlocks modes/functions where appropriate. A PS5 build can only run on PS5 (and presumably forwards), it will not run on PS4 full-stop. Even if it contains a majority of the same code as its PS4 counterpart.

You can tell which is which based upon whether the trophy lists are shared or separate.

The margin of difference between the builds is not set in stone. You could have wildly dissimilar PS4 and PS5 versions if that was what was deemed appropriate.

The advantage of shared architectures and libraries is ease of development, its a positive because that efficiency gain should be reflected in a better product for the user to enjoy.

 

[Pull n Pray]

The journalism in this industry is just utter crap. To my knowledge, not a single journalist has ever asked Jim Ryan if the next God of War will be released on PS4. Likewise, no journalist has ever asked Phil Spencer if Elder Scrolls VI will release on PS5. Instead, they ask vague questions, get vague answers, and then write stories interpreting the vague answers. Vague questions are fine, but then follow them up with specific questions. And what I really dislike is when they don't even disclose to the reader the question that the interviewee is answering. What question was Jim Ryan's "we believe in generations" statement an answer to? No one knows. And that context could make a lot of difference.

But this isn't meant to excuse Jim Ryan. His answers seem designed to use the incompetent press to spread misinformation without technically lying himself. And Ryan and Sony let that misinformation go uncorrected for many months.

 

[reksveks]

The journalism in this industry is just utter crap. To my knowledge, not a single journalist has ever asked Jim Ryan if the next God of War will be released on PS4. Likewise, no journalist has ever asked Phil Spencer if Elder Scrolls VI will release on PS5. Instead, they ask vague questions, get vague answers, and then write stories interpreting the vague answers. Vague questions are fine, but then follow them up with specific questions. And what I really dislike is when they don't even disclose to the reader the question that the interviewee is answering. What question was Jim Ryan's "we believe in generations" statement an answer to? No one knows. And that context could make a lot of difference.

But this isn't meant to excuse Jim Ryan. His answers seem designed to use the incompetent press to spread misinformation without technically lying himself. And Ryan and Sony let that misinformation go uncorrected for many months.

Jim Ryan does very few interviews and when he does get asked very specific questions, he just defaults to the typical 'we don't have any answers for you at this moment'

PlayStation CEO Jim Ryan: £70 is fair price for PS5 games and launch line-up is console's best ever

The second part of the Telegraph's exclusive interview also covers console storage, cloud gaming and the PS5's divisive design

www.telegraph.co.uk

I am not sure that not repeating a question that your interviewee has already failed to answer is the biggest issue in the world.

 

[blastprocessor]

If I’d of Known that all the big Triple-A games we’re going to be cross-gen then I’d have kept my PS4 pro and bought (an improved) ps5 later.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Yeah of course I know the difference. PS5 awkwardly runs a downclocked hardware profile for bc to mimic a PS4 whereas a native PS5 game can use the full hardware unless the game also has to run on PS4.

I'm still waiting to hear you make an actual point in bringing that up?

 

[ACESHIGH]

My problem with Sony and the media (sites, social networks and forums) is that whatever Sony does they will always spin it to show them in good light.

They release great games and have the most popular console but cmon guys it's all right to show some criticism from time to time.

Releasing cross gen games for a year or 2 is a common practice so I'll never understand the massive backlash against MS last year. Now Sony is doing exactly the same and the media is trying to spin it one way or another "it's good because of COVID" "because of the massive ps4 user base" or whatever. I agree with that. But why cross gen releases were the devil last year around November?

Feels like the gaming media is under Sonys payroll at times...

 

[ManaByte]

Likewise, no journalist has ever asked Phil Spencer if Elder Scrolls VI will release on PS5.

Because most journalists aren't 12 and understand what the Bethesda purchase means for future games.

 

[Shmunter]

again, these games have been in development for years, well before final PS5 dev kits existed. Scope is much larger than ratchet. And these games simply sell a lot more. You can risk ratchet, DS, or returnal having less sales. Not something like horizon with 10+M in sales

and it’s not like god of war or horizon aren’t significantly upgraded by next gen. horizon is better arguably the best looking next gen game revealed

Generally 1st party would be privy to the next gen hardware roadmap before any other studio.

Dev kits aside, they could have started targeting development on pc hardware with adequate cpu and GPU resources coupled with massive ram and ssd‘s for baseline capability.

The PS4 being the only possible target due to timing I don’t buy for a second. And as you point out, some are PS5 targets, others aren’t. Pure bean counting decisions at the cost of pushing those games and the generation as a whole forward.

The lies from these muppets are taking the shine out of the brand.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Generally 1st party would be privy to the next gen hardware roadmap before any other studio.

Dev kits aside, they could have started targeting development on pc hardware with adequate cpu and GPU resources coupled with massive ram and ssd‘s for baseline capability.

The PS4 being the only possible target due to timing I don’t buy for a second. And as you point out, some are PS5 targets, others aren’t. Pure bean counting decisions at the cost of pushing those games and the generation as a whole forward.

The lies from these muppets are taking the shine out of the brand.

ok, then the trade off in this scenario is the games take another year or more to develop new gameplay systems/physics that weren’t possible before so their really take advantage of the hardware

so we’d be looking at 2023+ titles more than likely.

it’s a bad business decision all around

 

[Shmunter]

ok, then the trade off in this scenario is the games take another year or more to develop new gameplay systems/physics that weren’t possible before so their really take advantage of the hardware

so we’d be looking at 2023+ titles more than likely.

it’s a bad business decision all around

Extra year is not a certainty. Indeed having to target ps4 there is an engineering effort for workarounds to create Sony levels of fidelity that are no longer needed on PS5. On PS5 asset management is simplified, considerations for level design less restricted, cpu ample to not need to get fancy balancing resources to the bone.

Indeed, the delays seen may be a direct result of targeting PS4. Point in proof PS5 only Ratchet releasing earlier.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Extra year is not a certainty. Indeed having to target ps4 there is an engineering effort for workarounds to create Sony levels of fidelity that are no longer needed on PS5. On PS5 asset management is simplified, considerations for level design less restricted, cpu ample to not need to get fancy balancing resources to the bone.

Indeed, the delays seen may be a direct result of targeting PS4. Point in proof PS5 only Ratchet releasing earlier.

The PS4 engines are already ready to go. Not much they have to do to make a new PS4 games on engines already developed.

PS5 asset management is simplified, but again, to make new SSD streaming systems and truly optimize for PS5 only will take more time. Taking advantage of the CPU for physics will take more time. The design teams will need to envision things they can improve upon now that they don't have those limitations, that will take time.

PS5 only Ratchet probably got delayed from when they wanted to release it (due to COVID or otherwise). What evidence do you have it was releasing earlier than expected? And furthermore, Ratchet is a very safe "next-gen game" where most of the showcase is through the SSD and visuals. The gameplay itself is not a dramatic shift. The physics isn't a dramatic shift. So while it is "next gen only", Horizon PS5 doesn't look "held back" in comparison.

I'd argue BOTH are not as next-gen as they CAN BE. But that's OK. We need games to release sooner rather than later. The really next-gen stuff with UE5 type nanite levels of detail will be a few years down the line.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

Releasing cross gen games for a year or 2 is a common practice so I'll never understand the massive backlash against MS last year. Now Sony is doing exactly the same and the media is trying to spin it one way or another "it's good because of COVID" "because of the massive ps4 user base" or whatever. I agree with that. But why cross gen releases were the devil last year around November?

How are they doing the same when Demons Souls, Returnal and R&C exist (with more coming)? I think at this point you guys are all trolling and refuse to see any logic.

The backlash for MS was because they made it seem like they would release cross-gen games ONLY. Huge difference. In reality, they actually released ZERO games so it's even worse.

It's not the same situation but keep trying.

 

[Justin9mm]

.. play PS4, wait for PS5 Pro .. dont buy PS5.

People can't even get a PS5 let alone Pro.. You'll be waiting until PS6 lol

 

[John Wick]

tis but a scratch .. a simple gfx PS5 fix. Core gameplay, AI, interactions, physics are 100% PS4 bullshit.

So are you trying to say that PC games using the latest GPU's are just a simple GFX fix? Core gameplay, AI, Interactions, Physics are all 100% bullshit crossgen????

 

[Shmunter]

The PS4 engines are already ready to go. Not much they have to do to make a new PS4 games on engines already developed.

PS5 asset management is simplified, but again, to make new SSD streaming systems and truly optimize for PS5 only will take more time. Taking advantage of the CPU for physics will take more time. The design teams will need to envision things they can improve upon now that they don't have those limitations, that will take time.

PS5 only Ratchet probably got delayed from when they wanted to release it (due to COVID or otherwise). What evidence do you have it was releasing earlier than expected? And furthermore, Ratchet is a very safe "next-gen game" where most of the showcase is through the SSD and visuals. The gameplay itself is not a dramatic shift. The physics isn't a dramatic shift. So while it is "next gen only", Horizon PS5 doesn't look "held back" in comparison.

I'd argue BOTH are not as next-gen as they CAN BE. But that's OK. We need games to release sooner rather than later. The really next-gen stuff with UE5 type nanite levels of detail will be a few years down the line.

R&C early as in compared to the other games.

Neither of us is right and wrong in this conversation, it’s all speculation as we are not involved in these projects. But I stand on my reasoning that 3+ years ago, the devs of these games could have from the ground up started with a mandate to target PS5 specs exclusively and worked from there.

Instead they have clearly dragged the entire legacy code and hardware along for the ride and all the limitations that imposes; as opposed to only bringing across what is beneficial in a next gen context. I do not see any efficiencies in such an approach.

 

[SlimySnake]

again, these games have been in development for years, well before final PS5 dev kits existed. Scope is much larger than ratchet. And these games simply sell a lot more. You can risk ratchet, DS, or returnal having less sales. Not something like horizon with 10+M in sales

and it’s not like god of war or horizon aren’t significantly upgraded by next gen. horizon is better arguably the best looking next gen game revealed

I would argue that's risk that a first party publisher should be willing to take. And indeed, they have taken that same risk time and time again for decades. Super Mario 64. Halo. GTA3. MGS2. Resistance, uncharted, Ratchet, Warhawk. Killzone shadowfall. Ryse. Titanfall. All expensive games.

What's happening here is greed. Corporate greed. Sony is making more money than ever. If their $100 million game only sells 2 million copies instead of 4 million copies in the first month. That's a $120 million hit in the quarter that they can easily make up through the course of the year as Miles as shown. It is still at the top of the UK charts 7 months after launch beating out new games like Biomutant all because a large shipment of PS5 came out that week.

Horizon I can understand. Started dev early 2017. No dev kits, no final specs. I get it. But April 2018? They had the specs and shouldve had early devkits. Even if they didnt, they knew the specs. Start development on PCs. It's not that hard. We had 10 tflops AMD cards back in 2016. We had zen CPUs in 2017. We had SSDs in 2011. Most games start development on PCs anyway. MGS4 was first shown off running on a PC. Hell, PS3 didnt even have a GPU until late 2015, less than a year before launch.

This is not anyone's first rodeo. Someone mentioned how in 2022, we would be playing GT7 designed around the limitations of a 2013 console that had a midrange 2011 GPU. That's just fucking depressing.

 

[phat_crazy]

ok, then the trade off in this scenario is the games take another year or more to develop new gameplay systems/physics that weren’t possible before so their really take advantage of the hardware

so we’d be looking at 2023+ titles more than likely.

it’s a bad business decision all around

Extra year is not a certainty. Indeed having to target ps4 there is an engineering effort for workarounds to create Sony levels of fidelity that are no longer needed on PS5. On PS5 asset management is simplified, considerations for level design less restricted, cpu ample to not need to get fancy balancing resources to the bone.

Indeed, the delays seen may be a direct result of targeting PS4. Point in proof PS5 only Ratchet releasing earlier.

I wouldn't worry too much. I actually think we are going to get the PS5 pushing PS5 exclusive games beginning as soon as 2022 but maybe late 2022. Remember the PS5 is similiar in structure to the PS4. Development cycles are expected to be reduced because of this due to the developers nearly 10 year familiarity with the ps4 hardware and the ps4's similiarity to the PS5. PS4 games are pretty much 100% backwards compatible because of this, not counting the shit games no one ever heard of. We could get a PS5 exclusive (cross fingers) Spiderman 2 as soon as late 2022 around the Spiderman anniversary or the first half of 2023. We could get other surprise PS5 pushing PS5 exclusive titles starting as soon as next year. 2022 will be PS5 exclusives and cross gen just like 2021. Let's just hope Sony's plan isn't to make every system selling game like a Spiderman 2 cross gen.

 

[ACESHIGH]

How are they doing the same when Demons Souls, Returnal and R&C exist (with more coming)? I think at this point you guys are all trolling and refuse to see any logic.

The backlash for MS was because they made it seem like they would release cross-gen games ONLY. Huge difference. In reality, they actually released ZERO games so it's even worse.

It's not the same situation but keep trying.

They never made it seem anything. Halo infinite is a big cross gen title. Released only on the first year of the new console lifecycle. Just like GTAV and Destiny, games that moved a couple of units in spite of being cross gen.

Do you believe MS was going to release cross gen games made for a tablet CPU and a souped up 7790 through 2027? That's the gaming press at work and then Sony winning PR points with their " we believe in generations" bs.

But that's how the press, social media and forums operate. When in doubt MS bad, Sony good.

 

[SlimySnake]

And to add to my corporate greed comment, I think this isnt just on Jim Ryan and Herman Hurst. I am gonna level some blame at the feet of Cory Barlog who should have enough clout to put his foot down and demand this game be a PS5 title. Sony is supposedly very hands off, no? Well, clearly thats not true, but surely GG, PD and SSM have earned the right to make this decision and those devs should have used their clout to force Sony into submission. How would it look if after winning GOTY at the VGAs, Cory resigned because Sony wouldnt let him achieve his vision. Phil would be on him in a flash. Sony wouldve never allowed it.

But nope, they kept quiet on twitter while Jim and Herman Hurst misled us. Jstevensen was on era this whole time and didnt say a single word while everyone speculated if Miles was cross gen. They are part of the same hypocrisy.

 

[elliot5]

And to add to my corporate greed comment, I think this isnt just on Jim Ryan and Herman Hurst. I am gonna level some blame at the feet of Cory Barlog who should have enough clout to put his foot down and demand this game be a PS5 title. Sony is supposedly very hands off, no? Well, clearly thats not true, but surely GG, PD and SSM have earned the right to make this decision and those devs should have used their clout to force Sony into submission. How would it look if after winning GOTY at the VGAs, Cory resigned because Sony wouldnt let him achieve his vision. Phil would be on him in a flash. Sony wouldve never allowed it.

But nope, they kept quiet on twitter while Jim and Herman Hurst misled us. Jstevensen was on era this whole time and didnt say a single word while everyone speculated if Miles was cross gen. They are part of the same hypocrisy.

lol do you think James or Cory are gonna say that it's coming to PS4? That's a good way to get fired in an instant to go against the marketing of Sony. They're your boss. You don't poke the bear by going rogue on social media.

 

[SlimySnake]

lol do you think James or Cory are gonna say that it's coming to PS4? That's a good way to get fired in an instant to go against the marketing of Sony. They're your boss. You don't poke the bear by going rogue on social media.

Yeah, yolo. LMAO.

'Fuck Jim Ryan. What you gonna do bitch, fire me? I made GoW IT again.'

In all seriousness, look at what Christopher Nolan and Denis Villenvue did when HBO MAX put their movies on a streaming service. they went scorched earth. Wish game devs like Cory and Neil were the same.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Much loved and storied franchise. They kept making them because people kept buying them. That's what they call a "system seller."

Something can be loved and storied and not be a big system seller.

It's a series with good ROI... that much is obvious.

 

[SlimySnake]

Never heard of this website, but they managed to secure an interview with GG devs and asked them some pretty juicy cross gen questions. Where is Digital Foundry???

Interview: Horizon Forbidden West's creators promise a highly ambitious sequel

Will Aloy finally get to fly on a machine? We talked to the creators of Horizon Forbidden West to find out.

www.hardwarezone.com.sg

The gameplay demo showed off a ton of destruction during Aloy’s battle with the Tremortusk. Will there be destructible environments throughout the open-world as well, or was that limited to this story mission?​

Mathijs de Jonge: This is what we call a set piece, and we have quite a few of those scattered around the game throughout the open world, in quests and certain scenarios. We also have destructibility in terms of trees and rocks, and other smaller ruins. So yes, absolutely. There's more destructibility throughout the game, but this is a really big world, so we're not going for full-scale destructibility. That's not what the game is about. We do have places to show off how powerful the machines are, where they can crash through trees or through walls. However, it's not like the entire world can be destroyed.

So destruction is basically on par with what they had in Horizon 1. Limited. And not one of the things that is improved upon the PS4 version of Horizon 2.

Game is 4k 30 fps. So 1440p 60 fps is pretty much what we should expect. PS4 pro is probably 4kcb 30 fps again.

The game was shown off at 4K 30fps, but are there plans for a 60fps gameplay option?​

Mathijs de Jonge: For the PlayStation 5 version, we are supporting two modes. One is Performance Mode. And another is something like a Quality Mode. The Quality Mode is 4K 30 FPS, but the Performance Mode is indeed 60 FPS. So yes, we do have a 60 FPS version for the PlayStation 5.

Wont confirm flying even though the game is pretty much done. Not a good look.

The introduction of even more flying machines, like the Sunwing, have gotten players pretty excited over the idea of Aloy using them to fly. Will we be able to explore the Forbidden West by taking to the skies?​

Mathijs de Jonge: We are aware that this feature is very, very high on the wishlists of many gamers, but I cannot confirm or deny anything about this. I can only talk about what's in the actual gameplay demo that we showed.

Editor’s note: We sure heard about a lot of other stuff that wasn’t shown off during this demo, though… What are you hiding, Mathijs?

How far along is the game in development at this point?​

Mathijs de Jonge: We have just successfully completed our beta milestone, which is pretty far along. We're now in the final stages of development. So we are polishing the game and fixing bugs. We are also wrapping up certain aspects of the game, like some of the machines being behind schedule - because it takes an enormous amount of time to build them. We're working on the final cinematic. So, we're really wrapping up. There's still a lot to do with a game of this size and magnitude, but we're in the final stages.

How are you making use of the console’s ray tracing tech?​

Mathijs de Jonge: We use ray tracing technology for a lot of things in the game. We use it for the sound engine, for the physics and for the rendering. So we use a variety of technical setups, in terms of ray tracing. I'm not a tech engineer, so I can't explain it in much more detail than this. But yes, we are utilizing it.

Are there any noticeable differences between the PlayStation 4 and PlayStation 5 versions of the game? Has this cross-generation development process proven to be limiting in any way?​

Mathijs de Jonge: I don't think the cross-generation development was limiting in any way. When we started with the concept of this game, we had so many great ideas that ended up being included - to the point that we didn't really think about hardware limitations or anything, we just wanted to design a really nice, unique experience for the player. An awesome adventure. That's how we also brainstormed all the quests and events the player is going to go through. I think that the big delta between these two consoles, apart from the 3D audio, quick loading and DualSense of course, is on the graphical side of things. On the PlayStation 5, we can add so much more detail graphically. We can see the tiny hairs on Aloy’s face, for example. You can also see a ton of detail from far away.

I don't think many people notice in the demo, but you could see moss growing on the rocks. On the PlayStation 5, each individual strand of moss is rendered individually. So this machine is so powerful, and it can add so much more detail to the image. I think that's one of the biggest deltas, next to the processing power of the machine. We also use it for a specific lighting rig. This is a cinematic lighting rig that we normally only have time to use in cinematics. Because the PlayStation 5 is so much more powerful, we have it on all the time. During gameplay, there's a very high-quality rendering and lighting system on a lot. So there are all these extra features that make the game look even better.

Says Cross gen isnt limiting, but flying isnt in, destruction is limited and in another interview he pretty much said that it was primarily a PS4 game.

Here are all the upgrades from the PS4 version.

- Dualsense, 3d audio, faster loading.
- Hero Lighting in gameplay
- Tiny Hair on Aloy's face
- More graphical detail such as moss growing on rocks.
- Higher draw distance

Now I am curious to see the PS4 version because it sounds like the game should look fairly identical to the version we saw.

 

[noise36]

This decision by Sony basically validates MS series S strategy that many here had thought was going to hold back games this generation.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

What I want to know is why we are getting such diminishing returns in these games? For example. I can argue days gone in ps4 pro looks better than returnal built ground up on ps5, and it also runs at a higher resolution. Returnal is just running at 60fps.

I haven’t seen any generational leaps visually from ps4/pro other than FR and resolution.

8GB ram - 16GB
HDD - SSD
1.8 TF - 10.3 TF

idgi?

These aren't full next gen games. It's like many early PS3 exclusives looked better than ps2 but weren't the massive leap we got 3+ years later like with Uncharted 2 etc. Once more dev tools are built to take full advantage of next gen and devs make those games next gen exclusive then you will be floored.

Expect the first UE5 game from The Coalition (the equivalent of Gears 4 the first jaw dropping UE4 game on last gen) who is the flagship UE dev these days and what ever next gen exclusive Naughty Dog releases a few years from now to wow people.

 

[Shmunter]

Never heard of this website, but they managed to secure an interview with GG devs and asked them some pretty juicy cross gen questions. Where is Digital Foundry???

Interview: Horizon Forbidden West's creators promise a highly ambitious sequel

Will Aloy finally get to fly on a machine? We talked to the creators of Horizon Forbidden West to find out.

www.hardwarezone.com.sg

So destruction is basically on par with what they had in Horizon 1. Limited. And not one of the things that is improved upon the PS4 version of Horizon 2.

Game is 4k 30 fps. So 1440p 60 fps is pretty much what we should expect. PS4 pro is probably 4kcb 30 fps again.



Wont confirm flying even though the game is pretty much done. Not a good look.








Says Cross gen isnt limiting, but flying isnt in, destruction is limited and in another interview he pretty much said that it was primarily a PS4 game.

Here are all the upgrades from the PS4 version.

- Dualsense, 3d audio, faster loading.
- Hero Lighting in gameplay
- Tiny Hair on Aloy's face
- More graphical detail such as moss growing on rocks.
- Higher draw distance

Now I am curious to see the PS4 version because it sounds like the game should look fairly identical to the version we saw.

Will be the same game. PS5 will be the typical slider increase ala PC.

No doubt in my mind.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

Never heard of this website, but they managed to secure an interview with GG devs and asked them some pretty juicy cross gen questions. Where is Digital Foundry???

Interview: Horizon Forbidden West's creators promise a highly ambitious sequel

Will Aloy finally get to fly on a machine? We talked to the creators of Horizon Forbidden West to find out.

www.hardwarezone.com.sg

So destruction is basically on par with what they had in Horizon 1. Limited. And not one of the things that is improved upon the PS4 version of Horizon 2.

Game is 4k 30 fps. So 1440p 60 fps is pretty much what we should expect. PS4 pro is probably 4kcb 30 fps again.



Wont confirm flying even though the game is pretty much done. Not a good look.








Says Cross gen isnt limiting, but flying isnt in, destruction is limited and in another interview he pretty much said that it was primarily a PS4 game.

Here are all the upgrades from the PS4 version.

- Dualsense, 3d audio, faster loading.
- Hero Lighting in gameplay
- Tiny Hair on Aloy's face
- More graphical detail such as moss growing on rocks.
- Higher draw distance

Now I am curious to see the PS4 version because it sounds like the game should look fairly identical to the version we saw.

I don't think I'd necessarily take the flying part as a denial. He's probably just literally not allowed to confirm or deny it, especially if they're saving it for a demo later on.

 

[SlimySnake]

I don't think I'd necessarily take the flying part as a denial. He's probably just literally not allowed to confirm or deny it, especially if they're saving it for a demo later on.

Fair enough. But ive heard this answer before.

God of War Ragnarok PS5 Exclusivity Question Dodged by PlayStation Boss Jim Ryan

Will the upcoming God of War Ragnarok be a PlayStation 5 exclusive or not? Sony's Jim Ryan is suspicously mum on the subject.

wccftech.com

Well, in a recent interview with The Telegraph, Jim Ryan was outright asked whether God of War Ragnarok would be PS5 exclusives, and the PlayStation CEO provided this unsatisfying answer…

Sorry. I've got nothing to say about that today.

It sucks that we are at a point where we are questioning the integrity of developers, but this is Sony's own doing. The trust is broken. We will wait and see but even if flying is in, i expect it to be like Spiderman. Identical across both platforms. Doesnt matter how fast the PS5 streaming is, it will still be limited to PS4 speeds.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

Fair enough. But ive heard this answer before.

God of War Ragnarok PS5 Exclusivity Question Dodged by PlayStation Boss Jim Ryan

Will the upcoming God of War Ragnarok be a PlayStation 5 exclusive or not? Sony's Jim Ryan is suspicously mum on the subject.

wccftech.com

It sucks that we are at a point where we are questioning the integrity of developers, but this is Sony's own doing. The trust is broken. We will wait and see but even if flying is in, i expect it to be like Spiderman. Identical across both platforms. Doesnt matter how fast the PS5 streaming is, it will still be limited to PS4 speeds.

True. Might just be wishful thinking as flying has been my #1 want since the first game. We'll see I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[muteZX]

So are you trying to say that PC games using the latest GPU's are just a simple GFX fix? Core gameplay, AI, Interactions, Physics are all 100% bullshit crossgen????

Yes. Witcher 3, Cyberpunk 2077, Dark Souls and others have core gameplay, gameplay arc at PS2 level or less. Run, jump, kill, take. From A to B, fetch quests. So yes with I9 + 3090 + PCI4 SSD RAID + 64 giga ram you still only playing PS2 games in better graphics.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I would argue that's risk that a first party publisher should be willing to take. And indeed, they have taken that same risk time and time again for decades. Super Mario 64. Halo. GTA3. MGS2. Resistance, uncharted, Ratchet, Warhawk. Killzone shadowfall. Ryse. Titanfall. All expensive games.

What's happening here is greed. Corporate greed. Sony is making more money than ever. If their $100 million game only sells 2 million copies instead of 4 million copies in the first month. That's a $120 million hit in the quarter that they can easily make up through the course of the year as Miles as shown. It is still at the top of the UK charts 7 months after launch beating out new games like Biomutant all because a large shipment of PS5 came out that week.

Horizon I can understand. Started dev early 2017. No dev kits, no final specs. I get it. But April 2018? They had the specs and shouldve had early devkits. Even if they didnt, they knew the specs. Start development on PCs. It's not that hard. We had 10 tflops AMD cards back in 2016. We had zen CPUs in 2017. We had SSDs in 2011. Most games start development on PCs anyway. MGS4 was first shown off running on a PC. Hell, PS3 didnt even have a GPU until late 2015, less than a year before launch.

This is not anyone's first rodeo. Someone mentioned how in 2022, we would be playing GT7 designed around the limitations of a 2013 console that had a midrange 2011 GPU. That's just fucking depressing.

You're talking about a completely different era. I know you like to be dramatic about these things, but it's honestly not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be.

Those games you mentioned (SM64, Ratchet, etc. etc.) are simply not anywhere in the same stratosphere of budget compared to something like Horizon or God of War. The PS3 era games you mentioned that came out the first year have nowhere near the scope of Horizon or God of War either. 8 hour games vs. 30+ hour epic games with far more cinematics, gameplay systems, open worlds, etc. Those games probably cost $20M tops to develop during the PS3 launch window. Games these days are $100-200M. So we're talking about a 7.5X increase in cost. I'm sorry, but if you say that's greed? OK, all companies are greedy. This isn't charity. But when the risk is 7.5 times as large as it was in generations prior, it's a number that's far too large to ignore. And Sony also wants to keep PS4 sales / audiences engaged for a few more years.

And compartively, the games we ARE getting now as next-gen exclusive (Demons Souls, Ratchet, Returnal, etc) are still probably HIGHER production costs than the early PS3 days. Maybe $40-60M. So it's not like Sony ISN'T putting as much at risk as they used to, necessarily.

Also...God of War was allegedly developed with a shorter timespan than Horizon. In fact, they expected to launch the same year (2021) so roughly 3.5 dev time instead of 4.5 years. Horizon is probably the more ambitious game in terms of upgrades whereas I expect God of War 2 to be more iterative because there was probably less to improve. SSM is a very efficient studio when they have a clear direction (which they do now that that God of War was rebooted and this is their second go at it). So that explains why both were cross-gen. You can get close to a 3.5 year dev cycle if you don't have to worry about re-inventing the wheel in terms of engine/gameplay systems to be bleeding edge.

Look....I'd love if God of War 2 and Horizon 2 were next gen only. But I'm not THAT disappointed. Horizon 2 is still the best looking game I've ever seen, it just doesn't necessarily have some mind-bending gameplay systems or bleeding edge nanite type tech which we will see later on in the gen. That being said, the gameplay improvements they've detailed for Horizon 2 sound amazing to me. They are doing all the right things that I had a laundry list of complaints with for the first game. It is looking like such a deeper, more rich and dense experience from traversal, exploration, secrets, melee combat, upgrades, animals, etc. etc.....If Horizon 2 had never been announced as a cross-gen game and was PS5 only but looked exactly the same...I would believe that.

So at the end of the day it's pretty immaterial to me. The only thing I dislike is the lack of transparency a year ago from Jim Ryan, but he obviously tried to play it from both sides (hype PS5 up as much as possible but later on keep the PS4 fans satisfied). Whatever. He's not my favorite Sony exec and probably won't be in his position for very long as the C-suite is a revolving door.

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

SlimySnake spoke too soon and assumed too much about Cory having to tow the Sony corporate line lol...

I knew Cory was onboard making this crossgen. Guy had a vision for GOW2 and wanted to start work immediately without having to deal with extended dev cycle and dealing with re-inventing the wheel...he just got done doing that with GOW1 and wanted to tackle something easier LOL. Sometimes you need a sequel that just takes the original and makes it more BADASS....he did that with the original PS2 God of War 2...

I trust he knows what he's doing and isn't upset about having to make it cross gen

 

[SlimySnake]

I am always ahead of the curve. I literally just blamed Cory for the game being cross gen a couple of hours ago lmao

 

[Stuart360]

lol you are all dreaming if you think this is soley down to Cory, and Big Jim and Sony have no say in this. At the very LEAST he would of had to get this approved by Jimbo, at the very least.

 

[Dlacy13g]

Despite Jim Ryan lies... playstation has always believed in cross generation games.

 

[SlimySnake]

SlimySnake spoke too soon and assumed too much about Cory having to tow the Sony corporate line lol...

I knew Cory was onboard making this crossgen. Guy had a vision for GOW2 and wanted to start work immediately without having to deal with extended dev cycle and dealing with re-inventing the wheel...he just got done doing that with GOW1 and wanted to tackle something easier LOL. Sometimes you need a sequel that just takes the original and makes it more BADASS....he did that with the original PS2 God of War 2...

I trust he knows what he's doing and isn't upset about having to make it cross gen

lmao you cant make this stuff up.

BTW, Pretty sure Cory isnt directing GoW2. I understand hes working on a new IP and thats what Alanah is working on. They were hiring a new art director for this new IP recently. That might be their next gen game.

You're talking about a completely different era. I know you like to be dramatic about these things, but it's honestly not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be.

Those games you mentioned (SM64, Ratchet, etc. etc.) are simply not anywhere in the same stratosphere of budget compared to something like Horizon or God of War. The PS3 era games you mentioned that came out the first year have nowhere near the scope of Horizon or God of War either. 8 hour games vs. 30+ hour epic games with far more cinematics, gameplay systems, open worlds, etc. Those games probably cost $20M tops to develop during the PS3 launch window. Games these days are $100-200M. So we're talking about a 7.5X increase in cost. I'm sorry, but if you say that's greed? OK, all companies are greedy. This isn't charity. But when the risk is 7.5 times as large as it was in generations prior, it's a number that's far too large to ignore. And Sony also wants to keep PS4 sales / audiences engaged for a few more years.

Dont disagree with anything you said, but just wanted to point out that they will eventually make their money back. PS5 is the fastest selling console of all time. It will end up selling 20 million in the first year and those are the people who buy games on day one anyway. Mark my words, by the time GT7, Horizon and GoW come out, PS5 would be well over 25 million units sold. These games will sell 4 million copies on PS5 in their first month. Guaranteed.

Yes, games cost $100 million, but they also sell way more than they used to. I remember the first month sales of Ratchet and Uncharted. 79k and 111k. Now these games will sell 2-3 million in the first month.