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God of War Sequel and Gran Turismo 7 are Cross Generation Titles

GuinGuin

GuinGuin

Banned
CeeJay said:
I don't know how many times people can say to you that it's not the graphics it's the fact that if it's running on the PS4 then its not doing things that are only possible on PS5 like was promised. The games are designed to be scaled down to PS4 so unless the two versions are completely different then no matter how good it looks it's not reaching the PS5s potential.
Click to expand...

You can say it until you are blue in the face but it's still a lie.
You could travel all of Los Santos by foot, car or plane with no loading screens on PS4, PS3 and even PS2. If they wanted huge areas with no loading screens they could absolutely do it. If they wanted flying they could absolutely do it. All of this has been done for decades. Dial back the graphics for the PS4 version as much as needed to make it work on that platform and crank them up to 11 on PS5. It's called streaming assets. There is no game scenario you can imagine that couldn't be done on both systems if you adjust the graphics to compensate.
 
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CeeJay

CeeJay

Member
GuinGuin said:
You can say it until you are blue in the face but it's still a lie.
You could travel all of Los Santos by foot, car or plane with no loading screens on PS4, PS3 and even PS2. If they wanted huge areas with no loading screens they could absolutely do it. If they wanted flying they could absolutely do it. All of this has been done for decades. Dial back the graphics for the PS4 version as much as needed to make it work on that platform and crank them up to 11 on PS5. It's called streaming assets. There is no game scenario you can imagine that couldn't be done on both systems if you adjust the graphics to compensate.
Click to expand...
what is a lie?

So you are saying that the PS5 isn't capable of doing stuff the PS4 can't do?
 
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SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
James Sawyer Ford said:
I wonder if Sony is simply getting “the bad news out there” early so they don’t waste time dealing with the fallout when they have their E3 type conference

thoughts SlimySnake SlimySnake ?

makes sense to me
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wouldnt be surprised if they had this thing all mapped out a year ago. The way they have dropped this info in bits and pieces makes it clear that they knew this was a hot button issue. Remember they announced Horizon and Miles being cross gen the day they revealed GoW and failed to mention it was also cross gen. When asked, Jim refused to confirm.

TBH, I couldnt care less about their E3 conference now. If their best studios are working on last gen games then whats the point watching something in 2021 that will be bound by the same hardware constraints and level design as games made in 2005.

But most of all, it's just the dishonesty, the deceptive practices and misleading marketing thats put me off of this company. Maybe I am being dramatic, but I also felt the same way towards Xbox when they went all tv tv tv and tried to kill the used game market by implementing always online DRM. This kind of shit is just anti-consumer and I personally dont have any patience for this crap.

P.S I was looking into PC cards and I see that Nvidia is charging $500 premium on the 3080 Ti like they did for the 2080 Ti, but unlike the 25-35% performance gain of the 2080 Ti, you only get a 9-13% boost with the 3080 Ti over the 3080. It's shameful anti-consumer practices all around the industry at the moment when it's at its strongest its been, ever.

P.P.S I ended up buying a X1 at launch after MS reversed some of their tv, kinect and online DRM features so who knows. I am not closing the book on the PS5 just yet. If GG shows up with their new IP at E3, Cory shows up with his next gen new IP, ND reveals they had a secret second team working on a new IP then great.
 
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FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Member
DGrayson said:
LOL all companies do this. I dont trust any large corporation.
Click to expand...

The problem here is that this is a step backwards for Sony from the way they handled the last generation. During that period they at least came across as relatively honest in the way they communicated with fans, following the disasters of the Ps3 years. Now it looks like that humble attitude has gone, and we're back to Sony thinking they can say and do what they like with no repercussions. The culture at the company has obviously suffered after the changes in leadership.
 
GuinGuin

GuinGuin

Banned
CeeJay said:
It's certainly been fun watching the party line shift in the last couple of days :)
Click to expand...

Glad to see you agree with me. The transformative aspect of the PS5 is that it can load things in extremely quickly while also having top tier graphics. If you ran Rift Apart at 480p with heavily reduced textures, models, animations and lighting it would probably run on a PS3. It wouldn't be the same experience though.
 
MaulerX

MaulerX

Member
driqe said:
This.
Click to expand...



MS was getting heat for the PR cross-gen backlash at the time they announced it. Sony obviously was also planning the same strategy but they opted to score a cheap PR victory with lies and deception. They probably thought this would fly under the radar.

If they would have said the truth everyone would have understood and we wouldn't be having this conversation now.
 
GuinGuin

GuinGuin

Banned
MaulerX said:
MS was getting heat for the PR cross-gen backlash at the time they announced it. Sony obviously was also planning the same strategy but they opted to score a cheap PR victory with lies and deception. They probably thought this would fly under the radar.

If they would have said the truth everyone would have understood and we wouldn't be having this conversation now.
Click to expand...

Except Sony has released tons of next gen only first party games. Demon's Souls, Astro's Playroom, Destruction Allstars, Returnal and now Ratchet and Clank. Microsoft hasn't released any. Sony loved up to the expectation they set and so did Microsoft for better or worse.
 
N

NickFire

Member
GuinGuin said:
Except Sony has released tons of next gen only first party games. Demon's Souls, Astro's Playroom, Destruction Allstars, Returnal and now Ratchet and Clank. Microsoft hasn't released any. Sony loved up to the expectation they set and so did Microsoft for better or worse.
Click to expand...
What you wrote is why most PS5 owners sensibly chuckle at non-PS5 owners dunking on PS5 owners because of the cross gen games.
 
Msamy

Msamy

Member
I read an ,interview about horizon forbidden west , and they mentioned that the game was developed from beginning in PS4 ,and I think the same goes with gow Ragnarok and gt7 , and it's abvious that they will have PS4 version sence the development of this games started at early 2018 (may be before that) the problem here is sony lying about believe in generation , and exclusivity of this games to ps5 and that will hurt the trust of most of their fans.
 
MaulerX

MaulerX

Member
Kagoshima_Luke said:
It has become clear that "We believe in generations" was less about going all in with the PS5 and showing that generational leap, and more about "oh shit, we don't have the expertise/infrastructure/whatever to offer robust BC like MSFT so we will hide behind a ridiculously vague statement to obfuscate the issue and attempt to gain cred with gamers."
Click to expand...


This too. Recently any advantage a Series X game has had, it has been handwaved as "old cross-gen games running in BC mode! Lol!!"

So you're right this whole "We believe in Generations!" was an attempt to obfuscate anddrive attention away from that disadvantage.

Sony will obviously release proper native PS5 versions of their cross-gen games, but it'll remain a nightmare for third party multi-plat releases because of the added dev time that a native PS5 version would take.
 
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phil_t98

phil_t98

#SonyToo
GuinGuin said:
Why don't you wait until we have seen a single image of the game before complaining about what it will or will not do? Perhaps you'll be surprised.
Click to expand...
Because an image doesn’t tell you the games design. Cernys own words about game design changing because of SSD and now the games are cross gen they held back by PS4
 
skit_data

skit_data

Member
MaulerX said:
MS was getting heat for the PR cross-gen backlash at the time they announced it. Sony obviously was also planning the same strategy but they opted to score a cheap PR victory with lies and deception. They probably thought this would fly under the radar.

If they would have said the truth everyone would have understood and we wouldn't be having this conversation now.
Click to expand...
I don’t understand people saying their strategy is the same strategy.

Xbox got some flack because Phil Spencer outright said their 1st party titles will be crossgen. All of them.

4p2EyPD.jpg


www.gamespot.com

Xbox Boss Phil Spencer Confirms First-Party Exclusives Will Be Cross-Gen For The "Next Couple Of Years"

Xbox boss Phil Spencer speaks more about Microsoft's strategy for next-gen.
www.gamespot.com www.gamespot.com

Sony has released 1st party titles exclusive to PS5. They do not have the same approach, evidently.

I simply can’t understand how people can equate these strategys unless they are willfullingly ignorant or have no interest in what was actually being criticized in Spencers statement.
 
phil_t98

phil_t98

#SonyToo
skit_data said:
I don’t understand people saying their strategy is the same strategy.

Xbox got some flack because Phil Spencer outright said their 1st party titles will be crossgen. All of them.

4p2EyPD.jpg


www.gamespot.com

Xbox Boss Phil Spencer Confirms First-Party Exclusives Will Be Cross-Gen For The "Next Couple Of Years"

Xbox boss Phil Spencer speaks more about Microsoft's strategy for next-gen.
www.gamespot.com www.gamespot.com

Sony has released 1st party titles exclusive to PS5. They do not have the same approach, evidently.

I simply can’t understand how people can equate these strategys unless they are willfullingly ignorant or have no interest in what was actually being criticized in Spencers statement.
Click to expand...
The fact they sold the PS5 on believing in generations and the talk of the SSD making game design different from what’s gone befor and the biggest hitters they release all being cross gen is why they are getting heat
 
GuinGuin

GuinGuin

Banned
skit_data said:
I don’t understand people saying their strategy is the same strategy.

Xbox got some flack because Phil Spencer outright said their 1st party titles will be crossgen. All of them.

4p2EyPD.jpg


www.gamespot.com

Xbox Boss Phil Spencer Confirms First-Party Exclusives Will Be Cross-Gen For The "Next Couple Of Years"

Xbox boss Phil Spencer speaks more about Microsoft's strategy for next-gen.
www.gamespot.com www.gamespot.com

Sony has released 1st party titles exclusive to PS5. They do not have the same approach, evidently.

I simply can’t understand how people can equate these strategys unless they are willfullingly ignorant or have no interest in what was actually being criticized in Spencers statement.
Click to expand...

It's called trolling. Sadly it's a widespread menace.
 
skit_data

skit_data

Member
phil_t98 said:
The fact they sold the PS5 on believing in generations and the talk of the SSD making game design different from what’s gone befor and the biggest hitters they release all being cross gen is why they are getting heat
Click to expand...
Yes, and Sony deserve it to an extent (I guess Ratchet&Clank Rift Apart can be ignored for 8 more days) because they have seemingly deliberately been untransparent. That is shit.

But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about trying to equate the two strategies to each other.

There is a difference:

-Sony has and will publish 1st party games developed for PS5 in the next 1,5 years

-Xbox will not publish 1st party games developed for Series X in the following 1,5 years unless their strategy has shifted

One has not commited to crossgen wheras one has indeed commited to all games being crossgen. There is a difference between the two.
 
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GuinGuin

GuinGuin

Banned
phil_t98 said:
Because an image doesn’t tell you the games design. Cernys own words about game design changing because of SSD and now the games are cross gen they held back by PS4
Click to expand...

A single frame of video is what I meant. Jesus. Wait until you see the game in action before saying it is held back. They could have targeted the PS5 in any number of ways cutting back the PS4 graphics as needed to achieve their vision.
 
Shmunter

Shmunter

Member
elliot5 said:
www.videogameschronicle.com

Forget business sense, Sony’s cross-gen U-turn is disappointing for PS5’s potential | VGC

Sony’s PS4 announcements mean we’ll likely have to wait for Mark Cerny’s SSD future…
www.videogameschronicle.com www.videogameschronicle.com

GoW and Horizon were always cross gen, reportedly.

GT7 was a recent turnaround decision according to him.
Click to expand...
Excellent article and addresses the matter straight down the line….especially since the author personally worked on Yooka-Laylee.

“The compromise comes from what you don’t see in screenshots; AI, physics, the number of enemies on screen and the size and complexity of the environments.”

“When I worked on Yooka-Laylee at Playtonic Games, there were frequent conversations about whether certain design ideas would scale to Wii U – our least powerful platform at the time – and thus the scope of the game was always tailored with that constraint in mind.”

And in regards to PS5 design….

“game designers have long been constrained in terms of the size and complexity of the worlds they can create due to restrictions around how much data can be loaded into the game at one time. In the talk, the engineer demonstrated how PS5’s ultra-fast SSD could eliminate these distractions and allow designers to create seemingly limitless worlds in scope and design, thanks to its ability to load in data faster than the user can even move the game camera.”
 
phil_t98

phil_t98

#SonyToo
skit_data said:
Yes, and Sony deserve it to an extent (I guess Ratchet&Clank Rift Apart can be ignored for 8 more days) because they have seemingly deliberately been untransparent. That is shit.

But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about trying to equate the two strategies to each other.

There is a difference:

-Sony has and will publish 1st party games developed for PS5 in the next 1,5 years

-Xbox will not publish 1st party games developed for Series X in the following 1,5 years unless their strategy has shifted

One has not commited to crossgen wheras one has indeed commited to all games being crossgen. There is a difference between the two.
Click to expand...
Sony said they believe in generations which made people expect most if not all new games would be PS5 exclusive. Go check the god of war ragnarok thread and read the comments yourself.

Sony put a clear message out and backtracked
 
Bernd Lauert

Bernd Lauert

Banned
GuinGuin said:
You can say it until you are blue in the face but it's still a lie.
You could travel all of Los Santos by foot, car or plane with no loading screens on PS4, PS3 and even PS2. If they wanted huge areas with no loading screens they could absolutely do it. If they wanted flying they could absolutely do it. All of this has been done for decades. Dial back the graphics for the PS4 version as much as needed to make it work on that platform and crank them up to 11 on PS5. It's called streaming assets. There is no game scenario you can imagine that couldn't be done on both systems if you adjust the graphics to compensate.
Click to expand...
This coming from the guy who constantly shits on the XSS because it holds back gaming or whatever...

irony GIF
 
phil_t98

phil_t98

#SonyToo
GuinGuin said:
A single frame of video is what I meant. Jesus. Wait until you see the game in action before saying it is held back. They could have targeted the PS5 in any number of ways cutting back the PS4 graphics as needed to achieve their vision.
Click to expand...
Again the way they sold the SSD tech on PS5 saying it was going to make games that would be impossible to run on last gen hardware. Cernys words not mine.
 
FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Member
Bernd Lauert said:
This coming from the guy who constantly shits on the XSS because it holds back gaming or whatever...

irony GIF
Click to expand...

Sony are pulling the exact same shit as XBox: holding back development for next gen consoles in favour of larger profits by selling on older platforms too. Exactly. The. Same.

Yes, every single game produced for Series X and Ps5 that also has to run on a weaker machine will be held back by the inferior technology is has to work on. That's just a fact.

Anyone trying to pretend that Sony is doing anything different or better has drunk waaaaay too much of the Kool Aid.
 
GhostOfTsu

GhostOfTsu

Banned
skit_data said:
Sony has released 1st party titles exclusive to PS5. They do not have the same approach, evidently.

I simply can’t understand how people can equate these strategys unless they are willfullingly ignorant or have no interest in what was actually being criticized in Spencers statement.
Click to expand...
We keep repeating the same thing but these clowns see themselves as victims. Always. Zero reading comprehension and zero next-gen games. There was no lie. There was no backtracking.

There is no reasoning with them at this point. Let them.

phil_t98 said:
Sony said they believe in generations which made people expect most if not all new games would be PS5 exclusive. Go check the god of war ragnarok thread and read the comments yourself.

Sony put a clear message out and backtracked
Click to expand...
You obviously didn't read the whole quote and just went with what people assumed online. You sound like a child.
 
skit_data

skit_data

Member
phil_t98 said:
Sony said they believe in generations which made people expect most if not all new games would be PS5 exclusive. Go check the god of war ragnarok thread and read the comments yourself.

Sony put a clear message out and backtracked
Click to expand...
Again, that is shitty, bad practice and acknowledged.

I don’t really care what people said in a thread about a subject

The fact of the matter is that Jim Ryan never said ”all our 1st party games will be PS5 exclusive” whereas Phil Spencer said ”all our 1st party games will be crossgen”.

The rest is just interpretation and wet dreams
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Clear said:
I also have to point out that the real canary in the coalmine for Sony's strategy was Astro's Playroom. This is PS5 only NOT because its designed to do stuff in rendering or visual terms that could not be accomplished on PS4. It was all about the controller integration and haptics.

Some of you guys are just being too stubborn to admit you are fixated on a nebulous idea of what "next gen only" means in terms of design consequence and implementation. Haptics, advanced controller techniques, 3D audio design are all elements that are truly exclusively PS5 only, and can be simply integrated on top of a design that accommodates PS4. Like faster loading and smaller disk footprints being benefits of the advanced I/O stack that are equally unintrusive.

The fact is that saying that the other exciting functionality of the i/o stack (like essentially unlimited pseudo-VRAM) DO need to be explictly catered for in the game design, does not mean that its NECCESSARY to lean on that in all instances in order to produce a legitimately next-gen experience.
Click to expand...

StreetsofBeige said:
Astro's Playroom can have the best haptic feedback in the history of video games but zero people are going to treat that kind of game as a game taking advantage of true next gen specs.
Click to expand...

Once again, some people are either console warring or don't like facts. Astro's Playroom is a perfect example of a game that Jim Ryan was talking about when he said, "We believe in Generations". It isn't just able GPU, CPU, and SSD power.
 
GuinGuin

GuinGuin

Banned
FunkMiller said:
All of this is true, and there really is no point trying to pretend it isn't.
Click to expand...

Huge bosses and setpieces, instant travel between realms, dozens of enemies on screen, etc

They already have had huge bosses and dozens of enemies on screen on PS4 and PS3. They could easily implement instant travel in the PS5 version with a short loading sequence in the PS4 version. People are literally complaining about a game they have never seen. Such hysterics are embarrassing for any full grown man.
 
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MaulerX

MaulerX

Member
GuinGuin said:
Except Sony has released tons of next gen only first party games. Demon's Souls, Astro's Playroom, Destruction Allstars, Returnal and now Ratchet and Clank. Microsoft hasn't released any. Sony loved up to the expectation they set and so did Microsoft for better or worse.
Click to expand...


Ratchet hasn't officially released yet but every other game you mentioned is not considered a "big game". And in the grand scheme of things they probably sold very little as well (except Astro which was a pack in).
 
FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Member
GuinGuin said:
Huge bosses and setpieces, instant travel between realms, dozens of enemies on screen, etc

They already have had huge bosses and dozens of enemies on screen on PS4 and PS3. They could easily implement instant travel in the PS5 version with a short loading sequence in the PS4 version. People are literally complaining about a game they have never seen. Such hysterics are embarrassing for any full grown man.
Click to expand...

Dude. You haven't been around here long, so perhaps you're labouring under the misapprehension that I am some console warring child, who will excuse anything the company I like does, and tear the company I don't like to shreds for doing the same thing. This is not me. Neither am I hysterical.

What I am is (rightly) criticising a games corporation for not being more transparent about their games development strategy, and highlighting that any game that has to run on eight year old hardware is not going to properly exploit the capabilities of six month old hardware. This applies both to Playstation and XBox.

And you'd have to be a hysterical, console warring child to think otherwise.
 
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