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[INC]

I agree with this. I would say Sony is looking pretty savvy right now. I don't know how long in advance yesterday's demo was planned, but to have it the week after a disappointing XsX showcase (which I thought was alright, but not really close to NEXT GEN IS HERE level) is perfect timing. Not only is the timing great, but they have a third party team talking about how great the PS5 is, not just Cerny or someone at Sony saying it, which makes it seem even better.

On top of that, all they have needed to do prior to this is tweet a logo and unveil the DualSense to generate millions and millions of views.

I wasn't convinced of their plan after the Cerny GDC talk, which I was pretty critical of, but right now it seems like they are captain of the hype ship for the time being. Yesterday's demo had nothing to do with XsX, or what XsX can't do, it was just about what PS5 CAN do, and yet still it came off as a total PS5 home run. Whoever planned it all either got really lucky or is a genius.



I mean, as underwhelming as you may have found it, there WERE some snippets of actual gameplay last week. Take it or leave it, it's there.

Why I mentions medium, that looked good, but hardly anything concrete in terms of gameplay, that was more my point, most people would take away it was just 3rd party cg trailers, rather than xbx gameplay blow out

Only game was that one man made game, and thats been on the internet for ages, so hardly mind blowing

As you said, nothing that screamed 'next gen is here's, more well heres some trailer that might look like that.

More my point, just think xbx dropped the ball with those trailers

Put it this way the unreal 5 demo made me think, shit ive gotta spend more money on my pc now, the xbx trailer made me think, I'm good for another few years yet

If that makes sense

 

[HeadsUp7Up]

I'm trying to keep my hype in check because Sony's release hardware has always sounded like a jet engine for me but this demo is NOT helping whatsoever. RIP my wallet between this and the new Xbox.

 

[INC]

I'm trying to keep my hype in check because Sony's release hardware has always sounded like a jet engine for me but this demo is NOT helping whatsoever. RIP my wallet between this and the new Xbox.

Let's hope they have a flight sim at launch, immersive jet noise for free

 

[ethomaz]

Gigabyte says hi.

AORUS NVMe Gen4 SSD 2TB Key Features | SSD - GIGABYTE U.S.A.

GIGABYTE, Chassis, Thermal Solution, Power Supply, Optical Device, TV Tuner Card, gamer, PSU

www.gigabyte.com

That is not a SSD lol
It is an expansion board that supports 4 M.2 SSDs.

SSDs to match PS5 SSD speeds are set to launch late this year.

Edit - That SSD didn't match PS5's SSD performance.

 

[jeffyjaixx]

Oh my God! That was unreal. Can't wait to see what Sony's first party studios can do with this new tech. ND, I'm looking at you.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Pretty sneaky putting HDD in there. As if that's what high-end PCs are using.

Anyway how fast are PC SSDs in RAID configuration these days?

You mean this?

There are no single nvme, m2 drives (all limited to pciex. 4xlane) capable of
5.5GB/s raw
10GB/s compressed
22GB/s seeking aka getting the data as fast as possible

It took Linus, the canadian lesbi ... wearing sandals and earrings in 2020, like 20x SSDs (intel enterprise 8TB U2 drives) to reach 30GB/s on a prof. raid server board, card.

To reach similar PS5 numbers or even surpass them:
get enough storage, raid0 them, between $500 to $1,000 (4x drives), keep in mind raid0 sucks as OS (seek times increase = takes longer to get files)
raid card not limited to 4x PCIex.lanes another $200? (highpoint ones, dunno price)

But they suck balls or used to anyway, i wouldnt use one as OS drive


They get stupidly hot and throttle down. Gen5 will deliver single drives capable of 2x Gen4 drives in 2021? or 2022.

Even if cooled properly, having to unplug the gpu everytime you wanna access your m2 below it? Fuck no! double check your motherboard layout, avoid the m2 below GPUs ... should they constantly fail on you.

 

[Papacheeks]

As a complete noob, do you reckon sony went to epic, and built their console with epic in mind?

I mean epic have fortnite (regardless of how shit it might be it's a big money maker)
And unreal being an extremely popular engine, could guarantee better performance in comparison videos like DF do compared to xbox, we all know how both sides are when it comes to comparison video, and have the smallest difference in performance

And if sony did work with epic, make ps5 lead platform for developers who use unreal 5

Or is this too tin foil, just seems weird that epic used ps5 to demo

Just to be clear, I care more about how this effects PC and VR

They went to their developers, which has been talked about by actual developers in how Sony approached them with what they saw as being a roadblock in current development in their workflows. Sony Bend uses Unreal 4, and had a lot of issues because of how dense the world was in structures, models ect. There's a reason it chuggs when trying to load new location of the map. It's waiting for the HDD.

I believe Japan Studio also used Unreal for Gravity Rush 2. There are others who used unreal that were partners with Sony and used Unreal Engine. On top of probably Engineers over at GG talked in length to cerny what they were seeing with their engine that has procedural generated assets.

And yes I believe since many of their studios leverage Unreal , they probably talked to EPIC in getting more insight to what would be acceptable to be able to use the SSD if fast enough as a giant VIRTUAL RAM POOL.

 

[ethomaz]

What we know is the implied message from TS. Then we also know that the PS5 has a custom made I/O loop to ensure that loading data off the SSD is very fast. We also know that the max bandwidth from the PS5 SSD is higher than for the XBX. Everything indicates (i.e. we do not fully know yet) that the latency is extremely low for the PS5 as defined by time point (T0) when the call is made for a texture stored on the SSD and when it is actually is sent (T1). T0->T1 is your key latency number (there are more steps as well).

It is the latency that is the problem on a PC given the amount of steps involved - it is quite high - and why I believe that the PC environment will not be able to replicate this without motherboard changes (and that will take at least another generation). This last part is my speculation but I would not do it unless I thought there is something to this argument.

PC will just need a faster SSD to brute force.
If PS5 has a 5.5GB/s with low overhead... PC will just need a SSD bit faster to match the same performance even eith
I strong believe the 7GB/s SSDs to release late this year will match or even slightly surpass the PS5’s SSD performance.

There is no need for motherboard changes or anything like... just faster SSDs.

 

[Elog]

PC will just need a faster SSD to brute force.
If PS5 has a 5.5GB/s with low overhead... PC will just need a SSD bit faster to match the same performance even eith
I strong believe the 7GB/s SSDs to release late this year will match or even slightly surpass the PS5’s SSD performance.

There is no need for motherboard changes or anything like... just faster SSDs.

I do not want to repeat myself but the latency stack on a PC is deeply problematic as I see it given the number of I/O calls that need to be made - and to change that you need changes to the motherboard.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I do not want to repeat myself but the latency stack on a PC is deeply problematic as I see it given the number of I/O calls that need to be made - and to change that you need changes to the motherboard.

Yep, been saying this. Thus why I'm holding off on my PC build until Ryzen 4/RDNA 3, since it's rumored to have similar IO hardware stack features.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Yep, been saying this. Thus why I'm holding off on my PC build until Ryzen 4/RDNA 3, since it's rumored to have similar IO hardware stack features.

Yeah, people who upgraded their PC’s recently are in for a shock IMO. This isn’t the PS4/XB1 coming in with jaguar PCs and ancient tech. Terrible time to upgrade, will have been an expensive decision.

 

[DanEON]

Yeah, people who upgraded their PC’s recently are in for a shock IMO. This isn’t the PS4/XB1 coming in with jaguar PCs and ancient tech. Terrible time to upgrade, will have been an expensive decision.

Yep, for me it will be PS5 first, PC upgrade later.

 

[DanEON]

Yep, been saying this. Thus why I'm holding off on my PC build until Ryzen 4/RDNA 3, since it's rumored to have similar IO hardware stack features.

You mean RDNA 2, no?

 

[HeadsUp7Up]

Yep, been saying this. Thus why I'm holding off on my PC build until Ryzen 4/RDNA 3, since it's rumored to have similar IO hardware stack features.

I just came to this same conclusion a week or so ago. I can wait another 15 months so I can be upgrade free for 4-5 years..

 

[DoctaThompson]

I wonder why there are some people pretending like this is a game, currently available right now, that can be played on the ps5 that is currently sitting in their room. This demo is currently running on Xbox series X, and PC, confirmed by the devs themselves, and won't release until next year.


Even a lead developer from the GOW series tweeted this.

We won't be seeing games like this, for next generation. No games have been comparable to any of the Unreal tech demo's of it's corresponding generations.

All of the speculation and FUD being thrown around is stupid, as most people can't even argue why they believe what they believe.

 

[pyrocro]

Preach!

IQ has nothing to do with resolution, fully. Resolution does help, but there are new ways to achieve what native resolution can do, at a lower internal without sacrificing all of that overhead to such a hungry resource. Great IQ is great IQ, 1080p or above. Which all scales very well on a 4K set due to even integer (or great reconstruction) and tight pixel densities.

I would rather devs chase that IQ with much, much more graphical effects and assets, than that 4K checkbox.

Did you really just say "IQ has nothing to do with resolution".

 

[DoctaThompson]

Did you really just say "IQ has nothing to do with resolution".

Of course it doesn't
/s

 

[Ascend]

I do not want to repeat myself but the latency stack on a PC is deeply problematic as I see it given the number of I/O calls that need to be made - and to change that you need changes to the motherboard.

I'm not sure a motherboard change is really required. That would be the case if the I/O of the chipset needs to do the work. But the I/O on the CPU can do it too. Current Zen CPUs already have direct connections between its I/O block and PCIe lanes, without needing to go through the chipset first.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You mean RDNA 2, no?

It's possible, but that was not listed in the feature set. So either AMD can utilize what Sony is doing on RDNA2 as well for future cards, or add it to 3. Ryzen 4 mobos will need to be up to snuff too. Zen 3 will have the L3 cache to for the two CXX with no latency that Zen 2 has.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Did you really just say "IQ has nothing to do with resolution".

Did you stop reading after the first sentence?

I am not talking texture resolution, I am talking frame resolution. The demo proved this as such.

I wonder why there are some people pretending like this is a game, currently available right now, that can be played on the ps5 that is currently sitting in their room. This demo is currently running on Xbox series X, and PC, confirmed by the devs themselves, and won't release until next year.


Even a lead developer from the GOW series tweeted this.

We won't be seeing games like this, for next generation. No games have been comparable to any of the Unreal tech demo's of it's corresponding generations.

All of the speculation and FUD being thrown around is stupid, as most people can't even argue why they believe what they believe.

I don't think you are using the term FUD correctly.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

That is not a SSD lol
It is an expansion board that supports 4 M.2 SSDs.

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

 

[pyrocro]

Of course it doesn't
/s

now run that at 480p and say the same thing with a straight face.

IQ and resolution

but you show 4 images all at the same resolution. reduce the resolution and prove your point.

I can't wait the see the hops you jump through for this one.

 

[Deto]

I wonder why there are some people pretending like this is a game, currently available right now, that can be played on the ps5 that is currently sitting in their room. This demo is currently running on Xbox series X, and PC, confirmed by the devs themselves, and won't release until next year.


Even a lead developer from the GOW series tweeted this.

We won't be seeing games like this, for next generation. No games have been comparable to any of the Unreal tech demo's of it's corresponding generations.

All of the speculation and FUD being thrown around is stupid, as most people can't even argue why they believe what they believe.

He's saying that it takes a lot of work to make this kind of art for a 30h game, since you can't repeat it.


Just to let you know, Sony bought a company last year that scans real landscapes to create assets


And to top it off, the U4 Demo on PS4 has already been surpassed by games today. I don't think you saw it, right? best to throw a guess hoping no one will research whether or not it is real.

 

[Thirty7ven]

We won't be seeing games like this, for next generation. No games have been comparable to any of the Unreal tech demo's of it's corresponding generations.

All of the speculation and FUD being thrown around is stupid, as most people can't even argue why they believe what they believe.

Batman Arkham Knight, Gears of War, Days Gone all look better than the luminous engine.

Honestly it gets pretty tiring to read you downplay stuff and I just glanced over your post history and it's nothing but trash talking consoles and SSD.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Did you stop reading after the first sentence?

I am not talking texture resolution, I am talking frame resolution. The demo proved this as such.



I don't think you are using the term FUD correctly.

"The demo won't run on Xbox series X or PC", is FUD in the most obvious sense.

He's saying that it takes a lot of work to make this kind of art for a 30h game, since you can't repeat it.


Just to let you know, Sony bought a company last year that scans real landscapes to create assets


And to top it off, the U4 Demo on PS4 has already been surpassed by games today. I don't think you saw it, right? best to throw a guess hoping no one will research whether or not it is real.

The ps4 version is not really good. The pc version is much better, but you still won't see full games with that fidelity and running at high resolution and framerate. The physics were kinda weak, but the point still remains. Tech demo's are not the same as games. In engine demo's are also not the same as games.

It's great to implement megascans, but not at the expense of games that would quadruple in size, if not bigger.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Batman Arkham Knight, Gears of War, Days Gone all look better than the luminous engine.

Honestly it gets pretty tiring to read you downplay stuff and I just glanced over your post history and it's nothing but trash talking consoles and SSD.

Please show me where I down play something? Maybe in jest to specific people I joke with on here, but definitely don't downplay things like you perceive. I usually just read and comment on people who post ridiculous claims that can easily be disproven.

 

[DeepEnigma]

"The demo won't run on Xbox series X or PC", is FUD in the most obvious sense.

Ah yes, I agree there. Now will it run with the same level of triangles, that remains to be seen and can be debated/speculated via Sweeney's wording.

 

[93xfan]

But you can get 6gbs already? Which is extremely fast and can more than do that demo

he clearly states thattoday’s pcs can do that demo and the only thing he says about lower detail is HDD

he left it vague. He just said “awesome performance” for NVME SSDs on PCs.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Ah yes, I agree there. Now will it run with the same level of triangles, that remains to be seen and can be debated/speculated via Sweeney's wording.

Even saying that, is pure speculation. The only regard to having degraded performance is on HDD. That literally only leaves current gen consoles to be suffering. But not Series X or a gaming pc. Anyone can spin their way of how they perceive it, but it was only regarded as HDD not running as good.

 

[ethomaz]

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

What do you mean?

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

What do you mean?

The link shows an extension board to use 4x M.2 SSDs.
It costs $160.

No. No it doesn't.

 

[ethomaz]

No. No it doesn't.

Oh I have in cache that one: https://www.gigabyte.com/Solid-State-Drive/AORUS-Gen4-AIC-SSD-8TB

I just cleared cache and it showed the actual SSD... 5/4.4GB/s... it is nowhere close to PS5's SSD performance.

 

[pyrocro]

Did you stop reading after the first sentence?

I am not talking texture resolution, I am talking frame resolution. The demo proved this as such.



I don't think you are using the term FUD correctly.

it's just games render resolution has a direct relationship to the quality of the output image even for things like DLSS2.0 and whatever AMD as cooking.
and why would anyone think texture resolution when they read "resolution", what a strange thing to say.

Oh I have in cache that one: https://www.gigabyte.com/Solid-State-Drive/AORUS-Gen4-AIC-SSD-8TB

I just cleared cache and it showed the actual SSD... 5/4.4GB/s... it is nowhere close to PS5's SSD performance.

Again with talking about the PS5 as though it's out now.
will it have SSDs with comparable speeds when the PS5 is actually out?

 

[DoctaThompson]

What do you mean?

The link shows an extension board to use 4x M.2 SSDs.
It costs $160.

I just cleared a big ass bag of some good shit from my vape. And I'm no where on your level, if you can't see it's a gigabyte ssd, not extension board lol.

Can you pass that shit this way?!

 

[DeepEnigma]

Even saying that, is pure speculation. The only regard to having degraded performance is on HDD. That literally only leaves current gen consoles to be suffering. But not Series X or a gaming pc. Anyone can spin their way of how they perceive it, but it was only regarded as HDD not running as good.

We are allowed to speculate. Nobody has concrete facts in either direction at this time in that regards.

 

[ethomaz]

I just cleared a big ass bag of some good shit from my vape. And I'm no where on your level, if you can't see it's a gigabyte ssd, not extension board lol.

Can you pass that shit this way?!

Because the link took me to the extension board?

 

[DeepEnigma]

it's just games render resolution has a direct relationship to the quality of the output image even for things like DLSS2.0 and whatever AMD as cooking.
and why would anyone think texture resolution when they read "resolution", what a strange thing to say.

All I was saying is you don't need 4K for fantastic IQ. You can get discernible IQ to 4K like they have shown in this demo, on a lower internal resolution with dynamic reconstruction techniques throwing in the higher than 4K assets. Much more efficient than the 4K resource hogging check box so developers can do more for IQ and assets.

 

[sendit]

I didn't say massive amounts of ram. Do you know how a cache works? Do you not understand that the GPU isn't grabbing data from the SSD as if it was in regular texture space? Do you not understand what a 3D pipeline is? Have you ever implemented your own real-time 3D graphics engine?

PC can use system ram as cache and even better just move the static geometry straight into GPU RAM. I can bet you that the geometry in that demo's view frustrum was residing in VRAM already - not streamed in at any given frame. Read the paper on the tech. It was printed years and years ago and implemented on a PC.

SDE by trade...so yes i guess I know how cache works?

Not sure what the point of this is? The tech featured in the UE5 demo wasn't realized in a day. You still failed to address why Microsoft and other tech companies are pushing for solutions to reduce CPU overhead regarding the workflow between SSD and GPU VRAM (in the PC space).

 

[ethomaz]

Again with talking about the PS5 as though it's out now.
will it have SSDs with comparable speeds when the PS5 is actually out?

I said in my original post.

"SSDs to match PS5 SSD speeds are set to launch late this year. "

 

[psorcerer]

Of course it doesn't
/s

The Witcher 3 HD Reworked Project

Feel the new visual experience with The Witcher 3 HD Reworked Project 12.0 Ultimate!

www.nexusmods.com

Texture size increased 2x-4x performance drop <2%

 

[Thirty7ven]

In PC games, from my experience texture quality is dependent on amount of VRAM and doesn't seem to impact performance.

 

[sendit]

Guys. The PC has no bottlenecks, which is why a Gen 3 and 4 NVME SSD performs just as fast as a dated SATA 3 SSD:



Microsoft, NVidia, Intel, and AMD are absolutely wasting their precious engineering time by developing solutions to reduce/eliminate latency.

/s

 

[pawel86ck]

The ps4 version is not really good. The pc version is much better, but you still won't see full games with that fidelity and running at high resolution and framerate. The physics were kinda weak, but the point still remains. Tech demo's are not the same as games. In engine demo's are also not the same as games.

UE4 "elemental" tech demo was just a cutscene running on high end PC, while UE5 tech demo is already running on console (and it's also interactive). I'm sure we will see games with similar graphics fidelity.

 

[FireFly]

We won't be seeing games like this, for next generation. No games have been comparable to any of the Unreal tech demo's of it's corresponding generations.

All of the speculation and FUD being thrown around is stupid, as most people can't even argue why they believe what they believe.

Maybe we won't see exactly the same technology being used, but to say games won't be comparable at all is a pretty strong claim. The limitatations you referred to were in content creation, so I don't see why for example a smaller scale indie game couldn't look this good, using photogrammetry assets.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

Is there anythign that proof the demo cannot be doen on xbox?

 

[ethomaz]

Is there anythign that proof the demo cannot be doen on xbox?

No.
Epic said it can be done in any platform from mobile to high-end PC but it will be scale the triangles/details to HDD/SSD speeds... faster = more detail.

So exactly like it was showed on PS5 is not possible on Xbox due SSD don't feeding fast enough to that amount of details... same case for high-end PC but these two platform probably will render at better resolution.

 

[DoctaThompson]

UE4 "elemental" tech demo was just a cutscene running on high end PC, while UE5 tech demo is already running on console (and it's also interactive). I'm sure we will see games with similar graphics fidelity.

If they showcased this same demo running on the dev's 2070 and ssd, I would still say the demo isn't necessarily "interactive". Same with on Xbox. It looks amazing, and I can't take away from that. But once you move the character in the limited space, and she jumps down, it's not interactive anymore. Putting NPC's on screen, add in flashy effects, and combat, and this would probably fall flat on it's face. It was already struggling to maintain a consistent 30fps, without anything else on screen. Again, that is not to take away from how incredible this tech demo is. I just don't see games, any time soon, being able to have every inch of each game, with this fidelity.

I would love all games to incorporate this fidelity, but the reality is, it will take up so muuuuch space. 8k textures and megascans would eat up the whole SSD of both next gen consoles, as well as take a chunk from pc ssd's. I doubt the first wave of games will surpass 200gb, give or take. Gta 6 and a few others probably will, but I doubt the mainstream games from most devs will.

 

[sendit]

Is there anythign that proof the demo cannot be doen on xbox?

No one is stating it can't be done. Unreal Engine is a multiplatform engine, it will scale. The question being asked is at what fidelity can the XSX run this at? Would the frame rate/resolution be higher due to the extra compute? Would the assets need to be reduced because the overall SSD and storage architecture is slower?

 

[pyrocro]

All I was saying is you don't need 4K for fantastic IQ. You can get discernible IQ to 4K like they have shown in this demo, on a lower internal resolution with dynamic reconstruction techniques throwing in the higher than 4K assets. Much more efficient than the 4K resource hogging check box so developers can do more for IQ and assets.

agreed but
If I understand the UE5 engine correctly it's all about the resolution you render at.
render at 480p~720p and you may get it working on a phone since the rendering techniques(namely Lumen and Nanite) have a more direct relationship to the resolution than current techniques.

So in UE5 as I understand it resolution is directly related to IQ to a greater extent.
the resolution in this demo is more an indication of a limiting factor.
If it's the SSD PC and XBSX is screwed.
If it's the GPU or CPU we can expect at least the same performance from XBSX.
and if it's the PS5 special source all other platforms are screwed BIGLY.(<- this is a joke)

Also with only 16GB of memory on both consoles,It's a given there will be more engines announcing similar technologies relying on constantly streaming in geometry and textures into memory.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

No one is stating it can't be done. Unreal Engine is a multiplatform engine, it will scale. The question being asked is at what fidelity can the XSX run this at? Would the frame rate/resolution be higher due to the extra compute? Would the assets need to be reduced because the overall SSD and storage architecture is slower?

There's a dude in the spec thread last night telling me it is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT FACT that it can't be done on XsX.

No man, it not me saying that, it is Tim Sweeney, Epic Games founder & CEO

Also, I am puzzled by these accounts that were created around the same time, ONLY post in the Spec thread, and only react to each other's spin-posts...hmmmm