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PS5's SSD is "far ahead" of those found in high-end PCs, according to Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney
- Thread starter DeepEnigma
- Start date
- News Hardware Platform
Elog
Member
What we know is the implied message from TS. Then we also know that the PS5 has a custom made I/O loop to ensure that loading data off the SSD is very fast. We also know that the max bandwidth from the PS5 SSD is higher than for the XBX. Everything indicates (i.e. we do not fully know yet) that the latency is extremely low for the PS5 as defined by time point (T0) when the call is made for a texture stored on the SSD and when it is actually is sent (T1). T0->T1 is your key latency number (there are more steps as well).
It is the latency that is the problem on a PC given the amount of steps involved - it is quite high - and why I believe that the PC environment will not be able to replicate this without motherboard changes (and that will take at least another generation). This last part is my speculation but I would not do it unless I thought there is something to this argument.
TBiddy
Member
Thank you for your intelligent contribution to the talk.
geordiemp
Member
All we know so far about XSX is allot of nice sounding terms and a last gen demo that takes 11 seconds to load on XSX.
I am sure MS are working out what to show next...
Thirty7ven
Banned
I didn't want to mess up the standard you were setting, which is conspiracy theory based on 0 evidence.
Do you also think that PS5 would've performed just as good at the Minecraft Path Tracing demo?
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Tripolygon
Banned
Don't look perplexed my friend. How many times have we heard about.
Custom SSD with Velocity Architecture to virtually eliminate load times with that impressive demo showing how fast Series X can load current gen games. And need i mention BCPack? Project Acoustics for spatial audio simulation.
Thirty7ven
Banned
You got me wrong. Fact is you hit the nail in the head.
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geordiemp
Member
No on the minecraft RT front, but I am fine with global illumination tech as per the demo, no need for RT.
Who cares about RT, whatever works best to my eyes, dont care how its acheived it is not important/
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Preach!
IQ has nothing to do with resolution, fully. Resolution does help, but there are new ways to achieve what native resolution can do, at a lower internal without sacrificing all of that overhead to such a hungry resource. Great IQ is great IQ, 1080p or above. Which all scales very well on a 4K set due to even integer (or great reconstruction) and tight pixel densities.
I would rather devs chase that IQ with much, much more graphical effects and assets, than that 4K checkbox.
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Tripolygon
Banned
Ahh, I misinterpreted your gif. What i find actually rather curious is that Sony has not given their IO,SSD and Software architecture a fancy marketing name like Microsoft Velocity Architecture.
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Drunkensamurai
Member
DanEON
Member
as far as i know, M2 SSDs have ultra low latency, around 60 micro seconds (micro, not mili). So we dont need another mobo generation, its all about bandwidth, not latency.
TBiddy
Member
How on earth was that a conspiracy theory? It's standard business practice. Sony and Epic has worked together on this event, with Sony providing the hardware and Epic providing the software - broadly speaking. This event was about UE5 and the PS5. They were never going to talk about the XSX. It's just how it is.
I have no idea how the PS5 would the Minecraft RT demo, but considering the XSX was pushed to the limit (and over it, at times) and considering that the XSX should (theoretically) have higher RT performance than the PS5, the PS5 would likely also have trouble running it.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
Even if there was marketing we still need to see if the ssd is as important as hinted.
Sony hinted the minimum needed for 4k in terms of specs. They didnt overhaul the ssd to such ridiculous speeds for shits and giggles. They likely targetted the minimum speed for certain features. Whether those are shown in the demo remains to be seen.
Drunkensamurai
Member
I still see a loading screen video here along with texture pop in. Granted, this is not a game built from the ground up for Series X, but it's still an issue because of Series X exclusives are going to be on One X.
Thirty7ven
Banned
No you said Sony paid EPIC. You say the event was about the PS5 but I didn't see the PS5 logo, the Sony logo, or anybody from Playstation there. This event was about U5 new tech and it was shown on the PS5. You're throwing conspiracy theories about money hats.
I'm not surprised you see things differently when it comes to performance in a tech demo highlighting XSX advantages. But thank you for being transparent.
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Pizdetz
Banned
It'll be interesting to see if the SSD fundamentally changes how the devs make their games. On the xbox side, since they promised to support the old gen for 2 years, likely the SSD will just boost load times. On the PS5, it may be more than that. But then, for devs that make multi-platform games, I can't see how PS5 would be too different than Xbox. I think it will come down to first party studios utilizing the SSD to its full potential on the PS5, and it's unclear how many AAA PS5 titles will be released early on that would do this.
hyperbertha
Member
Sweeney specifically stated this level of quality wasn't possible without the breakthroughs of the ps5 SSD, Yet people still trying to spin this as marketing. I can't even.... so hilarious.
But I never expected these people to change their stance with literal proof in front of their eyes. First they say SSD won't affect image quality. Now they say other systems can achieve same level of quality despite having less than half the bandwidth. Its all par for the course and extremely tiresome damage control.
But I never expected these people to change their stance with literal proof in front of their eyes. First they say SSD won't affect image quality. Now they say other systems can achieve same level of quality despite having less than half the bandwidth. Its all par for the course and extremely tiresome damage control.
Geki-D
Banned
Optimised or not this just really isn't great. They're talking about lightning fast, to no more loading at E3 and then they release this. The fact MS actually thought this was the best comparison they could show is just confusing to me.
It's funny some people seem to think just sticking a super fast SSD into any old PC will achieve the same results. As if the PS5 doesn't do anything else to best take advantage of the SSD (despite Sony and several devs blatantly saying otherwise) and is just pretty much a stronger PS4 but with an SSD in it.
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It's also quite common for anyone daring to question anything about PS5 marketing to be classed as 'having an agenda'. People who've been on this ride more than once know that you should question everything leading up to a hardware release. All the hardware makers, and their partners, will be conveniently vague and more than happy to let the fans run away with glowingly positive impressions. Even if they're partly (or wholly) incorrect.
The Unreal demo was for an engine that won't release until the end of 2021, then allow three years for a AAA game development and we're close to 2005 before games using things unique to this tech are appearing on the market. By that time you can bet your life that PC hardware will have surpassed anything the consoles can do.
Hell, there may ever be mid-generation 'pro' consoles on the horizon by then.
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D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
I agree with everything you said, except this part. For me it's not clear at all. You've got the XSX that is more powerful, but now the questions is if the SSD can make up that difference and maybe even more. Since they don't disclose enough information we can't really know this yet. Was there so much information to push towards the GPU that only the PS5 SSD was able to manage this, or was this still possible on the XSX? Do developers have the time, and users the storage capacity to develop games in such detail, or is this only for demo's?
TBiddy
Member
Of course Sony struck a deal with Epic to present the UE5 on the PS5. This is big business. It's not a conspiracy theory - it's by far the most likely event. Epic highlighted again and again the PS5, even though the engine runs on everything from PC to XSX and the PS5. Why do you think that is? Out of love and respect for Cerny?
Businesses are run on money and in this case Sony most likely paid Epic an unspecified amount of money or granted them exclusivity on future Sony titles coming to PC, in return for Epic praising the PS5 like this.
PS. Quit your petty console warring. You asked for my opinion and got it. Don't get defensive over that.
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MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
Waiting skeptically to see it in action ...
Elog
Member
Even with state of the art hardware you will hover around 0.3 ms on a new PC today with multiple calls in short sequence. And that is not counting the CPU load for texture management that is added on top due to decompression without dedicated hardware.
So it is not as easy as you make it.
Thirty7ven
Banned
They said PS5 twice, before it began and during to hammer home it was real time on a platform people can quantify.
I'm not console warring mate, you clearly are. It clearly bothers you that this was running on the PS5, and that can be considered petty, otherwise you wouldn't be spreading bullshit about money hats, and your stance on the Minecraft demo would be the same but it isn't.
P.S - don't get defensive and let's get back on topic, which is about what Tim's comments on PS5 ssd solution.
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DanEON
Member
a frame takes 16ms (or 33ms if 30fps) to render (display). I really dont know how that latency would cause any bottleneck.
Fun fact:
Sony exclusives normally don't use the unreal engine. Most time they made their own engines.
But, well, times might change.
TBiddy
Member
They've been consistently praising the PS5 with regards to this demo. It's well deserved, mind, but also it reeks of a marketing deal of some sort. I'm not sure how you can deny that.
The XSX is stronger than the PS5 in RT, and considering the XSX struggled with the Minecraft demo, how on earth can you disagree that the PS5 would struggle as well? Are you even reading what you're responding to?
svbarnard
Banned
Woh woh woh!!!! Hold your horses didn't take like 6 years for the 7nm chips to come out and so I don't expect 5nm for a long time.
sixamp
Member
I'm truly amazed how the SSD is the new HDD of this gen. Everyone talked about having an HDD in their console and how amazing it was. It's a hard drive. It's a storage hard drive. Will it help with overall performance ..yes.. will it be the deciding factor of the ps5 or xbx over one another NO. Gpu, CPU, game engines and ram are still far more important than the HDD/sdd.
DoctaThompson
Banned
How is it throwing shade when you have a bunch of misinformed people saying PC can't do this, can't do that? Me proving those people wrong isn't shitting on ps5? Defending one thing isn't the same as hating on another. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. Try looking at the people who I've been quoting for an idea.
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Ascend
Member
Not this again... It was made clear a gazillion times that the game was not optimized for XSX, but simply made to run on it as is. It's trying to load the game from the SSD as if it's an HDD. Of course it's going to be slower compared to a game optimized for SSD.
Thirty7ven
Banned
I think it's only natural for the PS5 to be less performant at ray tracing and for XSX to be less performant at streaming based tech.
I also think it's highly unlikely that differences either way will amount to anything significant, but it's only natural that you show your tech on the best performing hardware at the specific task you are highlighting. There doesn't need to be any money hat going about.
MS actually relies on Unreal a whole lot more and even has a franchise that has a historically close association with it.
Epic isn't a small developer, it's weird people talking about this as some sort of Sony show. The post interview with EPIC was about a lot of things, not about the PS5.
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might have something to do with some manifesteres renamed their original 7nm process to 5nm (it is more like intels 14++++++++++ but instead of naming it 7nm++++++ they named it 5nm). Real 5nm production for big chips is far far away.
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Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
What the PS5 will do with finesse, PCs will soon do with brute force. That is sort of the way it has always been, and will continue to be.
GreatnessRD
Member
Captain Hero
The Spoiler Soldier
Whenever a positive talk or tech implemented in PS5 you will find a rare disease spreading into those threads and its related to something called PC .. not all but some really put much effort to point something we already know and they know but still .. it’s hard on them so PS and Xbox community just take care of them and wherever they say just nod
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Elog
Member
Just to show that this is not as easy again. Let's assume that you enter a room with 10,000 different textures and you have 12 channels on your SSD. That means that just the total latency is around 10,000*0,3/12 = 0,25 seconds and that does not include the actual loading and decompression of the textures. So latency becomes extremely important in a high texture environment when moving at normal pace in a game.
Someone with better knowledge about render environment can comment on the actual number of textures in modern games as well as the texture average size in bytes. With those two numbers in the equation you will start to realise that the latency quite fast becomes the key problem in utilising the SSD in the way that the PS5 did in the demo.
DoctaThompson
Banned
Saying PC's will catch up quickly is so obvious. Technology isn't static, it's constantly evolving, news at eleven. Dismissing how cool it is that a console is trying to innovate and push hardware forward though, is small dick syndrome.
I don't think there are many, if any at all dissing the demo. It's more so the idiots spreading FUD about how it's not possible on Xbox or PC. Or the ones who are spinning articles, quotes, and making their own conclusions. Those are the ones with the true micropenises.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
DanEON
Member
well, we both are just guessing, i dont have the knowledge on that, I would like to hear someone that does.
INC
Member
Clever marketing by sony tbh
Since this is the most the next gen footage ive seen so far, apart from the xbx medium trailer, but that's hardly ingame or gameplay
Xbx shows trailers, no one really cares or are left underwhelmed, sony get their name on a tech demo and people go ape shit
Clever
Not saying xbx is worse, just right now, no buzz surrounding it (yet), just cg trailers for 3rd party games.
Both sony and xbx need gameplay now, so we can all see what's to come, but with 1st party xbx nearly a year away, hard to see people be excited for games a year away, even of they do look awesome, not gonna help day 1 sales at launch
Look at this way, both consoles roughly same price (potentially)
Both have the same 3rd party games running roughly the same (to the average user)
1 console has exclusive 1st party games, the other doesnt
Which is more appealing to the masses, that dont check fourms and stuff, the one with more content and exclusives you would think. Who's gonna buy a console on the promise of exclusives a year away, almost a live service model, buy now, on the promise of future exclusive, or buy now with exclusives now
Again this is all just my thoughts, not trying to shit on xbx, just how it looks to me atm.
Feel free to say shut up cunt, you're wrong, I'm sure I am with some, if not all of this
Since this is the most the next gen footage ive seen so far, apart from the xbx medium trailer, but that's hardly ingame or gameplay
Xbx shows trailers, no one really cares or are left underwhelmed, sony get their name on a tech demo and people go ape shit
Clever
Not saying xbx is worse, just right now, no buzz surrounding it (yet), just cg trailers for 3rd party games.
Both sony and xbx need gameplay now, so we can all see what's to come, but with 1st party xbx nearly a year away, hard to see people be excited for games a year away, even of they do look awesome, not gonna help day 1 sales at launch
Look at this way, both consoles roughly same price (potentially)
Both have the same 3rd party games running roughly the same (to the average user)
1 console has exclusive 1st party games, the other doesnt
Which is more appealing to the masses, that dont check fourms and stuff, the one with more content and exclusives you would think. Who's gonna buy a console on the promise of exclusives a year away, almost a live service model, buy now, on the promise of future exclusive, or buy now with exclusives now
Again this is all just my thoughts, not trying to shit on xbx, just how it looks to me atm.
Feel free to say shut up cunt, you're wrong, I'm sure I am with some, if not all of this
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ShadowWolf712
Member
Imagine STILL doubting God-King Cerny.
Shmunter
Member
The premise of the demo seems to indicate streaming as the primary showpiece. Whether devs lean into it or not is definitely a question mark. But the potential is certainly greater in PS5 to provide more assets, faster. Just like there is more potential on XsX to provide more pixels.
The specs support the above, the Ue5 demo rhetoric supports it. We move to the next chapter soon enough; real world outcomes.
INC
Member
Until we see any 1st party game yes, 30fps is still meh tho, I'd like to see the cut backs when its 60fps, and how it looks then, I struggle to play anything at 30 now, even 60 looks off to me lately, been spoilt on 144hz for a while now
ShadowWolf712
Member
Because he is.Why does Mark Cerny always look like he's plotting something lol
The demise of his competition.
As he sits on a throne made from the skulls of those who dared question him before.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I agree with this. I would say Sony is looking pretty savvy right now. I don't know how long in advance yesterday's demo was planned, but to have it the week after a disappointing XsX showcase (which I thought was alright, but not really close to NEXT GEN IS HERE level) is perfect timing. Not only is the timing great, but they have a third party team talking about how great the PS5 is, not just Cerny or someone at Sony saying it, which makes it seem even better.
On top of that, all they have needed to do prior to this is tweet a logo and unveil the DualSense to generate millions and millions of views.
I wasn't convinced of their plan after the Cerny GDC talk, which I was pretty critical of, but right now it seems like they are captain of the hype ship for the time being. Yesterday's demo had nothing to do with XsX, or what XsX can't do, it was just about what PS5 CAN do, and yet still it came off as a total PS5 home run. Whoever planned it all either got really lucky or is a genius.
I mean, as underwhelming as you may have found it, there WERE some snippets of actual gameplay last week. Take it or leave it, it's there.
