Like I said in December, SSD wars have begun ! Nothing else matters.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PS5's SSD is "far ahead" of those found in high-end PCs, according to Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney
- Thread starter DeepEnigma
- Start date
- News Hardware Platform
Elog
Member
We can speculate as much as we want but based on the implied message from TS Sony's solution allows higher resolution textures than solutions with less bandwidth and higher latencies (e.g. the Xbox). While we do not have the hard bottleneck numbers, i.e. at what bandwidth and latency do you need to reduce resolution, it seems that Cerny with the PS5 has really made some smart design moves.
And for the PC crowd - I doubt that the PCs will be able to achieve the same thing as what they showed in the demo since it is not only about the SSD and the GPU - it is the motherboard architecture that needs to change as well based on what has been discussed - and that does not happen overnight. We will see.
And for the PC crowd - I doubt that the PCs will be able to achieve the same thing as what they showed in the demo since it is not only about the SSD and the GPU - it is the motherboard architecture that needs to change as well based on what has been discussed - and that does not happen overnight. We will see.
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
Hi guys,
I know y'all busy with the console war and stuff. Good luck with all that. Never give up!
I was just wondering. Does anyone know if the fact that the Sony SSD can push soo much data to get visuals like this. The base size of games is going to increase as well?
Games on current gen are hitting sizes of 90gb and upwards. Is it fair to assume PS5 and possibly XSX games are going to break the 150+ gb base install size?
Kind regards,
Clintzilla
I know y'all busy with the console war and stuff. Good luck with all that. Never give up!
I was just wondering. Does anyone know if the fact that the Sony SSD can push soo much data to get visuals like this. The base size of games is going to increase as well?
Games on current gen are hitting sizes of 90gb and upwards. Is it fair to assume PS5 and possibly XSX games are going to break the 150+ gb base install size?
Kind regards,
Clintzilla
ethomaz
Banned
Cerny himself said it at Road of PS5.
“We can look at the available NAND flash parts and construct something with optimal price performance”.
With 12 channels they could use cheap NAND flash modules and archive the performance they wanted.
Last edited:
ethomaz
Banned
It is a trick question.
With SSDs you eliminate duplicated assets that accounted for about 25% of the size in Spider-man for example (GDC 2019).
And you have better compression so the assets stored on SSD will be high compressed:
That means the same game with the same assets on PS5 can be way lower in terms of disc space than PS4... if we take the 25% duplication plus a 30% compression ratio the same Spider-man example with 39GB on PS4 can end around 20GB on PS5.
The trick part I started talking is about how much assets quality/size will increase on PS5.... if they doubled the size then with Spiden-man example we could end with 40GB size.
IMO I believe the average size of PS5 game to be around the average size of PS4 game with doubled the quality/size of the assets.
Of course each game is a different case.
Last edited:
funking giblet
Member
I didn't say massive amounts of ram. Do you know how a cache works? Do you not understand that the GPU isn't grabbing data from the SSD as if it was in regular texture space? Do you not understand what a 3D pipeline is? Have you ever implemented your own real-time 3D graphics engine?
PC can use system ram as cache and even better just move the static geometry straight into GPU RAM. I can bet you that the geometry in that demo's view frustrum was residing in VRAM already - not streamed in at any given frame. Read the paper on the tech. It was printed years and years ago and implemented on a PC.
Yeah it's a virtualized solution using page files read from disk, you are not caching 100's of MB of meshes or 8K textures in RAM you mad lad, just the pages that contain the data need to be rendered, and guess what.. then you move and it has to load different pages in. from disk to RAM and flush out the least used pages. Pretty standard virtualization techniques. That paper is also unrelated to the solution. Hint "Virtualized Geometry", hence the unlimited amount of meshes... The fact that right off the bat, they mention both virtualized textures and geometry and your first thought is "hurr durr RAM as Cache"... yeah.
Try looking on google for another paper that looks "somewhat" right to try fool more people. You don't fool me.
Last edited:
pyrocro
Member
Why is everyone talking as though the PS5 is out now and faster SSD on PC will come after(now because the PS5 is out now).
They are waiting on the same thing every other SSD makers is waiting on -> The next generation of SSDs.
3. PS5 is not out yet.
Last edited:
Kokoloko85
Member
Ive come to see the xbox damage control and I already had an ssd for 5 years Crew....
Still having a hissy fit it seems
Still having a hissy fit it seems
INC
Member
As a complete noob, do you reckon sony went to epic, and built their console with epic in mind?
I mean epic have fortnite (regardless of how shit it might be it's a big money maker)
And unreal being an extremely popular engine, could guarantee better performance in comparison videos like DF do compared to xbox, we all know how both sides are when it comes to comparison video, and have the smallest difference in performance
And if sony did work with epic, make ps5 lead platform for developers who use unreal 5
Or is this too tin foil, just seems weird that epic used ps5 to demo
Just to be clear, I care more about how this effects PC and VR
I mean epic have fortnite (regardless of how shit it might be it's a big money maker)
And unreal being an extremely popular engine, could guarantee better performance in comparison videos like DF do compared to xbox, we all know how both sides are when it comes to comparison video, and have the smallest difference in performance
And if sony did work with epic, make ps5 lead platform for developers who use unreal 5
Or is this too tin foil, just seems weird that epic used ps5 to demo
Just to be clear, I care more about how this effects PC and VR
Last edited:
s owhat your calculations done here ? that pc is better and it will run better ? ohhh thats real discovery here. so new.
point is i dont care how or what pc parts will run good or bad point is about price how much this will cost, and i never will build pc again , so all matter is i will play some games on laptop sure, but all other goods just on console and not MS one for sure.
point is i dont care how or what pc parts will run good or bad point is about price how much this will cost, and i never will build pc again , so all matter is i will play some games on laptop sure, but all other goods just on console and not MS one for sure.
Last edited:
Mass Shift
Member
I don't know why this is bothering people, we've all heard things like this before a launch. It's a great lead up by Sweeney. Lot's of praise and plenty of "You can't do this on anything else kind of talk"
Phrases like "God-tier" are certainly way over the top but this is just the kind of talk a next gen console needs. I like it, gets the conversation moving in the right direction. How Games are going to Look and Play.
Fascinating, after years and years of being told that it was always the power of your silicon that mattered, the SSD now becomes THE decisive component for the future that will determine IQ and high performance in gaming.
Yeah, I know.
Well we'll see how long that opinion prevails over the next 6-7 years, gaming tech is always in motion. But it's still VERY exciting to see a demonstration with this level of high visual fidelity at the START of a new generation. The potential for great experiences is all right there.
As usual people ask developers and software engineers the WRONG questions. Instead of asking Sweeney if the PS5 is the only thing that can do this or that, the proper question should have been just how much optimization will devs have to commit to in order to get this level of performance? And since Cerny previously reveled that the PS5 has a set power budget that’s tied to the thermal limits of the system, it might give us some idea if we can expect this sort of treatment given to our favorite multiplatformers.
Phrases like "God-tier" are certainly way over the top but this is just the kind of talk a next gen console needs. I like it, gets the conversation moving in the right direction. How Games are going to Look and Play.
Fascinating, after years and years of being told that it was always the power of your silicon that mattered, the SSD now becomes THE decisive component for the future that will determine IQ and high performance in gaming.
Yeah, I know.
Well we'll see how long that opinion prevails over the next 6-7 years, gaming tech is always in motion. But it's still VERY exciting to see a demonstration with this level of high visual fidelity at the START of a new generation. The potential for great experiences is all right there.
As usual people ask developers and software engineers the WRONG questions. Instead of asking Sweeney if the PS5 is the only thing that can do this or that, the proper question should have been just how much optimization will devs have to commit to in order to get this level of performance? And since Cerny previously reveled that the PS5 has a set power budget that’s tied to the thermal limits of the system, it might give us some idea if we can expect this sort of treatment given to our favorite multiplatformers.
pawel86ck
Banned
How much time it would take to load 100 GB+ games into RAM? And the most important thing is how many people on PC are willing to buy 100 GB DDR4 in order to load entire game into RAM?I didn't say massive amounts of ram. Do you know how a cache works? Do you not understand that the GPU isn't grabbing data from the SSD as if it was in regular texture space? Do you not understand what a 3D pipeline is? Have you ever implemented your own real-time 3D graphics engine?
PC can use system ram as cache and even better just move the static geometry straight into GPU RAM. I can bet you that the geometry in that demo's view frustrum was residing in VRAM already - not streamed in at any given frame. Read the paper on the tech. It was printed years and years ago and implemented on a PC.
INC
Member
Cant we just buy the same/similar ssd as these consoles, to do the same thing as these next gen consoles
Last edited:
pawel86ck
Banned
I hope PC SDD tech in the near future will not only match PS5 I/O performance but even surpass it. There's a rumor ampere GPUs will improve SDD / DRR interaction and maybe even feature hardware data decompression.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
What is the percentage of Steam users having a NVMe drive installed in their system? Is it financially feasible to develop your game for this number of potential customers?
INC
Member
Well crysis did future tech for pc enthusiasts, which is an extremely small % of people at the time (also led to the most pirated game ever lol)
But it's not uncommon to develop a game that only a small % can run, they can scale up
I'm a noob and have no idea, but surely just an ssd upgrade is all that's needed, or will I have to get a cpu and gpu as well. I'm running 3700x and 2080 super, just wondering how much more money I've gotta spend lol
Last edited:
cireza
Member
Nobody can tell. Was it only running on PS5 for real ? I mean, how can you know for sure... There really isn't anything to conclude from tech demos in my opinion.
Ovek
7Member7
Well next year you should be able to buy a PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD (if your motherboard supports it) which delivers the same or more raw performance. The PS5 ssd however is something more than just raw performance, Sony redesigned how data is fetched. It's not just next gen it's something unique.
INC
Member
Didnt they say they're selling those tho? So I could just buy that, all very confusing for someone like me
Ovek
7Member7
Nope.
INC
Member
Ah ok, cheers
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yeah, but again and this is a pattern with PS5 news that are not negative: “How can we know it for sure? How can we know it is good news actually?” and honestly I am not sure Sony has done anything to deserve this much doubt and scrutiny.
It seems sometimes a race to dismiss, whitewash, whataboutism, etc... that feels like goal post shifting.
hyperbertha
Member
When Sweeney was asked whether this demo was possible on Xsx he kinda dodged the question with something like 'this tech is scalable to all kinds of hardware, including traditional hdds'. I think that tells us everything we need to know.
I expect the triangle counts for those statues and rocks in the demo to be significantly scaled down for the xsx versions.
I expect the triangle counts for those statues and rocks in the demo to be significantly scaled down for the xsx versions.
cireza
Member
I don't know if there is a pattern. I don't trust in tech demos that's all.
hyperbertha
Member
Enjoy Crackdown 3 at 8k 120 fps while console play near movie quality CGI as proven by this demo!
INC
Member
Or epic have sony money, not to mention xbx and how it performs (potentially better)
No one knows
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Maybe 12 TFLOPS is only achieved in special synthetic benchmarks and the real speed is 10.231 TFLOPS, no one knows...
.
INC
Member
Maybe 12 TFLOPS is only achieved in special synthetic benchmarks and the real speed is 10.231 TFLOPS, no one knows...
Who knows, but lack of evidence isnt proof either
So he doesn't talk about xbx whilst the demo is on ps5, no surprise
All this is just theories at this point, I'd rather hear about how this affects pc tbh
Last edited:
sircaw
Banned
Because you don't agree with me, or logic for that matter, you resort to personal attacks? Great way to win a debate young lad. You can simply ignore me if you'd like.
I get it, everyone likes a bit of banter, i do to but your constant "trying to throw shade on anything positive about what the ps5 might be able to do is leading me to think you are harbouring an agenda.
For years consoles have been holding back computers and now finally when we see massive innovation and quotes stating that "with out these modifications this would not be possible", So with that wonderful news, instead of praising the advancement, you decide to throw shade at it.
I understand your one of the pc master race people, where unlimited money can buy you anything but the fact is, the vast majority of people who own pcs will have weaker systems than what is being shown in the new consoles.
That's not even including the $500 dollar price tag, try building a pc for the same price as what your getting in these consoles, you can not, you will not be able to.
In the end you should be abit more positive as you are the one that is going to benefit the most from this new tech, yes it will be coming to pc a few years down the line and you will get to take advantage of it.
The new consoles, yes both of them are pushing the boundaries for the next generation.
We are going to see things that were never thought possible.
Stop being so delicate and petty about it all.
Mods/ sorry for the rant and if i get a warning i understand why.
Last edited:
T-Cake
Member
And I was convinced it was native 4K. Those textures and high polygon counts go a long way to make it look like you're running at a higher resolution. Hell, if every game could look that good, I'd be happy with 1080p60 performance and I'm a total 4K whore.
Last edited:
captainraincoat
Banned
oh wow 1440p and 30fps....the goal posts have been moving around quite a bit
GrayChild
Member
What was once the 'Power of the Cloud' for Microsoft, is now the power of Sony's secret SSD technology for that sweet 30FPS.
Last edited:
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Gigabyte says hi.
AORUS NVMe Gen4 SSD 2TB Key Features | SSD - GIGABYTE U.S.A.
GIGABYTE, Chassis, Thermal Solution, Power Supply, Optical Device, TV Tuner Card, gamer, PSU
INFORMATION PROCESSING DEVICE, ACCESS CONTROLLER, INFORMATION PROCESSING METHOD, AND COMPUTER PROGRAM - Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc.
<div p-id="p-0001">Disclosed herein is an information processing device including a host unit adapted to request data access by specifying a logical address of a secondary storage device, and a contro
www.freepatentsonline.com
*emphasis mine
MisterBrimstone
Member
No need to hope, it will. Also that tech demo had loading screens so what are they selling?
Virex
Banned
i could be wrong but the ssd that you put into ps5 has to be approved by sony( ie. it has to be made specifically for ps5) i forgot where i heard that. you cant just put a 7gbs ssd and have it be equal to the proprietary ssd. logically speaking it would make sense.
Mass Shift
Member
Of course he did, the entire point of the demonstration was to show how UE5 looked and performed on the PS5.
If he answered untruthfully then he essentially spreads false information about the Series X for the purposes of promoting another product. Why engage in that sort of thing? Sweeney is a professional, he can praise the features of the PS5 as they relate to UE5 without mentioning the Series X.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
no shit tim you donkey.
sony have already made this clear. their SSD will run at 5.5GB/s with support of up to 7GB/s which is the limit for PCIE 4.0
the fastest PC ssd i can find is 5GB/s and now before any console fanboy goes "muh ps5 is betta than a PC!!!".....yeah won't be long before we will be able to support SSD speeds up to 14GB/s with PCIE 5.0 which is due out next year.
sony have already made this clear. their SSD will run at 5.5GB/s with support of up to 7GB/s which is the limit for PCIE 4.0
the fastest PC ssd i can find is 5GB/s and now before any console fanboy goes "muh ps5 is betta than a PC!!!".....yeah won't be long before we will be able to support SSD speeds up to 14GB/s with PCIE 5.0 which is due out next year.
Last edited:
Ascend
Member
Since when does the Xbox have less bandwidth? The bandwidth of the RAM is still equally (if not more) important than the bandwidth of the SSD.
As for the latency, I'm not sure how you know that the Xbox has higher latency. I have not seen anything to indicate that. Is this the whole higher GPU clock speed thing?
Drunkensamurai
Member
no shit tim you donkey.
sony have already made this clear. their SSD will run at 5.5GB/s with support of up to 7GB/s which is the limit for PCIE 4.0
the fastest PC ssd i can find is 5GB/s and now before any console fanboy goes "muh ps5 is betta than a PC!!!".....yeah won't be long before we will be able to support SSD speeds up to 14GB/s with PCIE 5.0 which is due out next year.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the speed of the SSD is not the issue here when it comes to PC comparison, but it's how the SSD integrates with the PS5 architecture that is not possible in the current PC markets.
TBiddy
Member
This. So much this.
It seems like people are forgetting this was a carefully choreographed marketing event. A succesful one, no doubt, but still marketing. Considering Sony most likely paid Epic a decent sum of money (or paid with exclusivity on the EGS for future games on the PC?), Epic were never going to talk about XSX, and certainly not confirm that the competing console of those who paid for the event, will be able to run it just as good.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
The fact that they mentioned all PS5 marketing terms you would think people would pick up on this. Spatial Audio, blazing fast SSD, balanced system, etc.
TBiddy
Member
Love makes blind, or how the saying goes. That's not to say the demo wasn't impressive, because it was. It was very impressive.
Drunkensamurai
Member
This. I'm sure Sony and Epic have struck a deal to bring Horizon to EGS.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Saying PC's will catch up quickly is so obvious. Technology isn't static, it's constantly evolving, news at eleven. Dismissing how cool it is that a console is trying to innovate and push hardware forward though, is small dick syndrome.
Last edited:
FranXico
Member
I stand corrected. Thank you.INFORMATION PROCESSING DEVICE, ACCESS CONTROLLER, INFORMATION PROCESSING METHOD, AND COMPUTER PROGRAM - Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc.
<div p-id="p-0001">Disclosed herein is an information processing device including a host unit adapted to request data access by specifying a logical address of a secondary storage device, and a contro
*emphasis mine
Shmunter
Member
“God tier SSD”. Sony’s should definitely use that in marketing.
It could all be true, or it could be Epic wanted to show off Unreal 5 in the best possible light and asked Sony to let them do it. Mutual benefit, both are selling their product here.
Cerney engineering was likely heavily based on Epic feedback amongst other devs, relationships are formed, partnerships established.
At the end of the day, we’ve all been privy to devs proclaim SSD as the next gen game changer for awhile now. Specs have been revealed, we know who’s the top dog in this bout.
Tripolygon
Banned
But those are all Microsoft marketing terms as well.
Last edited: