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[BbMajor7th]

This is what MS first party has become under Phil Spencer: list wars. And when it's not endless lists of games with vague release windows, it's armchair speculation about which games they ought to cancel, which studio should really be handling which IP, which IP needs a break and which studio should be given the opportunity to work on something new. What it all amounts to is a frustrated attempt by the media and the gaming community to square an incorrigible circle: because it simply makes no sense that a company with this many studios, resources and bankable IPs can continue to produce such an underwhelming stable of content over such a prolonged period.

 

[Sosokrates]

This is what MS first party has become under Phil Spencer: list wars. And when it's not endless lists of games with vague release windows, it's armchair speculation about which games they ought to cancel, which studio should really be handling which IP, which IP needs a break and which studio should be given the opportunity to work on something new. What it all amounts to is a frustrated attempt by the media and the gaming community to square an incorrigible circle: because it simply makes no sense that a company with this many studios, resources and bankable IPs can continue to produce such an underwhelming stable of content over such a prolonged period.

Prolonged period? They have been releasing games though and its not been that long since there studios last games so what you are saying is just ignoring reality.

This misinformation really needs to stop. There is nothing abnormal for the majority of xbox studios development times, especially considering covid.

 

[ReBurn]

If a game getting delayed means x company can't manage a developer, the entire industry is completely unmanageable.

I never said that a game getting delayed means a company can't manage a developer, so please don't insinuate that I did. I also don't believe that we are talking about just "a" game, either. We're talking about multiple games affected this year.

For all of the fanfare over all of these studios Microsoft has acquired their output just has not been consistent. Starfield, Redfall and Halo Infinite Season 3, essentially all of their 2022 flagship offerings, have been delayed. It hints at leadership issues within Xbox Game Studios. It looks like with 343i changes Microsoft is trying to get it under control.

 

[adamsapple]

Prolonged period? They have been releasing games though and its not been that long since there studios last games so what you are saying is just ignoring reality.

This misinformation really needs to stop. There is nothing abnormal for the majority of xbox studios development times, especially considering covid.

First party games on all 3 major console manufacturers have been facing delays, games announced for 2021 are releasing in 2022 etc.

Saying MS/Xbox is the only one who does that is just straight up misinformation like you said.

 

[Sosokrates]

I never said that a game getting delayed means a company can't manage a developer, so please don't insinuate that I did. I also don't believe that we are talking about just "a" game, either. We're talking about multiple games affected this year.

For all of the fanfare over all of these studios Microsoft has acquired their output just has not been consistent. Starfield, Redfall and Halo Infinite Season 3, essentially all of their 2022 flagship offerings, have been delayed. It hints at leadership issues within Xbox Game Studios. It looks like with 343i changes Microsoft is trying to get it under control.

No it does not. Halo infinite is the only game which suffered delays.
And theres nothing out of the ordinary aboth zenimax delaying games, it could be that thanks to Microsoft, redfall and starfield are getting delays so they dont realeased in an unfinished state. Also your ignoring all the good things xbox game studios are doing like FH5, psychonauts 2, floght sim, ninja theory release that onlone game, obsidian are doing multiple games. You only focus on the delays and dont focus on shipped games, thats double standards.

 

[BbMajor7th]

Prolonged period? They have been releasing games though and its not been that long since there studios last games so what you are saying is just ignoring reality.

This misinformation really needs to stop.

I said it had "an underwhelming stable of content over a prolonged period", by which I mean they have produced a lot of games which are either highly rated but lack broad mainstream appeal (Flight Simulator, Psychonauts 2), have the broad mainstream appeal but disappointed (Halo Infinite, Halo MCC) or just outright stinkers (Battletoads, Crackdown 3). The only real exception here is Forza Horizon, but as it's a driving sim, it has a slightly more limited appeal.

 

[Ansphn]

How about 22? It's always freaking next year with Xbox.

 

[Sosokrates]

First party games on all 3 major console manufacturers have been facing delays, games announced for 2021 are releasing in 2022 etc.

Saying MS/Xbox is the only one who does that is just straight up misinformation like you said.

Yes, if we look at xbox studios previous games release dates it does not take long to see that there is nothing irregular about release schedules(apart from Halo), they will be likely a year longer because of covid which is normal. People trying to create a false narritive here.

 

[deriks]

I guess that only Hellblade and Starfield are the ones launched next year - and for sure that Starfield will be launched on a Skyrim-bug-level-thing

 

[BbMajor7th]

Yes, if we look at xbox studios previous games release dates it does not take long to see that there is nothing irregular about release schedules(apart from Halo), they will be likely a year longer because of covid which is normal. People trying to create a false narritive here.

Nothing false about it. Every couple of years, Sony and Nintendo manage to have a major a moment: a Breath of the Wild, an Animal Crossing, a God of War or a The Last of Us. Back on the 360 MS did this too: Halo 3 and Gears of War were both huge, must-play moments. I honestly can't think of a time that that's happened for MS in recent years.

 

[Sosokrates]

I said it had "an underwhelming stable of content over a prolonged period", by which I mean they have produced a lot of games which are either highly rated but lack broad mainstream appeal (Flight Simulator, Psychonauts 2), have the broad mainstream appeal but disappointed (Halo Infinite, Halo MCC) or just outright stinkers (Battletoads, Crackdown 3). The only real exception here is Forza Horizon, but as it's a driving sim, it has a slightly more limited appeal.

Gamepass and series consoles numbers suggest otherwise. They will be better, but games actually take time to make. Apart from 343, which xbox studio is taking longer then they should?

Also regarding broad appeal, not every game is a massive hit. Look at sony 2020 + 21 returnal, demon souls and rift apart while all good games dont have the broad appeal you are talking about. Microsofts genre diversity + game pass is what has been appealing, with FH5, halo infinite, flight sim, psychonauts and others that is a diverse and broad line up.

 

[Sosokrates]

Nothing false about it. Every couple of years, Sony and Nintendo manage to have a major a moment: a Breath of the Wild, an Animal Crossing, a God of War or a The Last of Us. Back on the 360 MS did this too: Halo 3 and Gears of War were both huge, must-play moments. I honestly can't think of a time that that's happened for MS in recent years.

What major moment have sony had the last few years? God of war will be there first. And obviously this generation is going to be more tail loaded for Xbox , i mean they have starfield, fable, avowed, perfect dark, Indiana jones, quake reboot, elder scrolls, hellblade 2 and the possible influx of actiblizz content...

 

[M1chl]

Yeah...

...and then you woke up with your hand in bed pan

 

[Banjo64]

2023 lineup (1st/2nd party):

1. Minecraft Legends
2. Ara: History Untold
3. Ghostwire Tokyo Port
4. Diablo 4
5. Forza Motorsport
6. Starfield
7. Redfall

Not bad, is it?

If none of those get delayed it’s a good year (not bothered about Ara personally).

 

[yurinka]

I'd hope Hellblade II as well, considering by next year it would have been in development for over 5 years.

But who knows.

It does seem like pure fanboy fantasy to speculate about the likes of Hellblade 2 and Fable being out of the 2023 running with nothing to back it up.

According what the director of the game said summer last year they were in preproduction and that were working on a vertical slice (part of the preproduction) before moving to full production.

Later in December we saw a small video of apparently gameplay of that vertical slice. So being optimistic and assuming they had the vertical slice done with anything approved and didn't detect anything in the vertical slice that had to be fixed before moving to full production (something common) and that quickly after they started full production late last year / early this year. Being more realistic probably they started full production mid this year, after the first Unreal Engine 5 stable version was available (April).

Hellblade 2 is supposed to be bigger and more ambitious, and with way better visuals than Hellblade 1, it's supposed to be a meaty AAA game. If this is true they won't release the game with less than 2 years of production.

Assuming everything goes well and that there isn't big issues being optimistic the game would release at least the second half of 2024 and being more realistic 2025 or if it's a really big AAA game (open world-ish and with a meaty story, something in size comparable to GoW2018) beyond that.

Specially considering that MS lately is patient and give their studios time to make the games, I think it isn't realistic at all to expect it for 2022 or 2023.

2023 lineup (1st/2nd party):

1. Minecraft Legends
2. Ara: History Untold
3. Ghostwire Tokyo Port
4. Diablo 4
5. Forza Motorsport
6. Starfield
7. Redfall

Not bad, is it?

Yes, MS will have a cool first party lineup in 2023. But the OP article was talking about exclusive games.

 

[ungalo]

I don't get why it would be fantasy. For Microsoft it's been complete blackout on so many projects for so many years. There's a moment when games finally arrive, otherwise it would mean they're cancelled or that nobody is currently working. Even Microsoft games won't take 12 years to be made.

So i hope we will have those games by 2023 and 2024 and Microsoft will let it flow even if the schedule is not really balanced because as a Xbox player i'm getting really tired.

 

[crackajack]

Even if this were true, which I doubt, it would be stupid of Xbox to release that many games in one year. They'd need to hold some back or they would end up in the same situation as this year with nothing to release in 2024 or 2025.

If they are certain that all would be ready 2023 but none would follow in 2024 they probably could and should shift some dates, ask which game might be able to add some MP, GaaS, MTX or whatever shite features, offline coop eg cough ... , but finish them and keeping it locked untouched would be strange. Only time something like that supposedly happened was with Vampire Bloodlines which pretended to be ready before HL2 while being bugged and probably just wanted to have some refund from Valve being slow with their own game and first release of the engine locked to their release.

GP' main goal is to increase its sub number. What would really drive those would be an entire year of exclusives each month. Where some will miss the hit status they want anyway.
Since some will drop to 2024 and some deals will get made if they can't deliver themselves, it should eventually be better than this year, finally where it should be and finally not abandoning their console midgen, just not firing on all cylinders each month throughout the gen grandiose.

 

[ReBurn]

No it does not. Halo infinite is the only game which suffered delays.
And theres nothing out of the ordinary aboth zenimax delaying games, it could be that thanks to Microsoft, redfall and starfield are getting delays so they dont realeased in an unfinished state. Also your ignoring all the good things xbox game studios are doing like FH5, psychonauts 2, floght sim, ninja theory release that onlone game, obsidian are doing multiple games. You only focus on the delays and dont focus on shipped games, thats double standards.

I didn't ignore their successes. They had a great 2021 and they deserved their publisher of the year award. I enjoy all of those games. But it's not 2021 any more. 2023 is going to be phenomenal. But 2022 on Xbox has been disappointing to me.

To me Xbox Game Studios is losing all of the momentum they gained in 2021. I've been an Xbox gamer since Xbox launched. It's been my main gaming platform for 25 years. I think I've earned the right to say that they need to get a tighter grip on the wheel.

 

[ungalo]

People act like 2021 was phenomenal for another Forza Horizon, an overrated Halo Infinite that completely sunk since and Psychonauts that's running on a PS4. I don't know if this is because it's an american forum but i don't get it. I mean it's ok but overall it was the worst year i've seen in video games.

On another matter the delays are not important, it doesn't mean anything by itself and people are just pretending they're missing the point. God of War was announced for 2021, everyone thought that was pretty much impossible to have it this quick, and everyone was right, it only means Sony was dumb to put this release date on a teaser. But nobody never had to rely on this to have games on PS4 and PS5, who cares ? There are other games, they may not be as huge but still well thought refined games. Hellblade was announced in 2019 and still nothing ? Even if they didn't talk about a release date it's pretty damn long since we're starving.

 

[JimmyF]

Jeff needs to stop drinking his own diarree.

 

[phil_t98]

I never said that a game getting delayed means a company can't manage a developer, so please don't insinuate that I did. I also don't believe that we are talking about just "a" game, either. We're talking about multiple games affected this year.

For all of the fanfare over all of these studios Microsoft has acquired their output just has not been consistent. Starfield, Redfall and Halo Infinite Season 3, essentially all of their 2022 flagship offerings, have been delayed. It hints at leadership issues within Xbox Game Studios. It looks like with 343i changes Microsoft is trying to get it under control.

didn't the same happen with Sony last year though? Sony didn't have a single first part release last year after returned and rachet

 

[jm89]

didn't the same happen with Sony last year though? Sony didn't have a single first part release last year after returned and rachet

Ehh why does after matter? They had returnal and ratchet last year and not just any releases quality ones, much more then can be said about ms this year. Sony have always been known to have their releases front heavy.

 

[Lognor]

People act like 2021 was phenomenal for another Forza Horizon, an overrated Halo Infinite that completely sunk since and Psychonauts that's running on a PS4. I don't know if this is because it's an american forum but i don't get it. I mean it's ok but overall it was the worst year i've seen in video games.

On another matter the delays are not important, it doesn't mean anything by itself and people are just pretending they're missing the point. God of War was announced for 2021, everyone thought that was pretty much impossible to have it this quick, and everyone was right, it only means Sony was dumb to put this release date on a teaser. But nobody never had to rely on this to have games on PS4 and PS5, who cares ? There are other games, they may not be as huge but still well thought refined games. Hellblade was announced in 2019 and still nothing ? Even if they didn't talk about a release date it's pretty damn long since we're starving.

If you're complaining about a cross gen game you must really hate this gen thus far. You must come to accept it.

 

[Leyasu]

Well they do have a lot of studios now. Games are going to start dropping eventually…..

 

[phil_t98]

Ehh why does after matter? They had returnal and ratchet last year and not just any releases quality ones, much more then can be said about ms this year. Sony have always been known to have their releases front heavy.

the fact that covid has effected studios, its hit at different times that's all

what was front heavy last year from Sony?

both those games are good but they aint heavy hitters.

 

[jm89]

the fact that covid has effected studios, its hit at different times that's all

what was front heavy last year from Sony?

both those games are good but they aint heavy hitters.

Both ratchet and returnal released first half of the year that's what i mean by front heavy, sony typically have a history of releasing alot of stuff early on.

Regardless heavy hitter or not, those are quality releases. For a studio like housemarque returnal was a heavy hitter.

 

[BbMajor7th]

What major moment have sony had the last few years? God of war will be there first.

TLOU2 was a 90+ game that holds the current record for the most GotY awards ever handed to a single title.

This generation is going to be more tail loaded for Xbox , i mean they have starfield, fable, avowed, perfect dark, Indiana jones, quake reboot, elder scrolls, hellblade 2 and the possible influx of actiblizz content...

Thanks for demonstrating the point I made in my first post:

This is what MS first party has become under Phil Spencer: list wars.

 

[phil_t98]

Both ratchet and returnal released first half of the year that's what i mean by front heavy, sony typically have a history of releasing alot of stuff early on.

Regardless heavy hitter or not, those are quality releases. For a studio like housemarque returnal was a heavy hitter.

return sold half a mill, not great figures by Sony standard. Sony had nothing for the rest of the year, it was dissapointiong. yeah Microsoft disappointing this year but its happened to both of them just a year apart

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

Microsoft is the largest software company in the world. They can manage developers just fine. They just can't seem to make video games.

they can manage developers just fine? One example: 343i.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Well technically, you can't call it a delay if they never officially announced a release date. Perfect Dark, Contraband and Everwild in 2023? I wouldn't have believed that even if they gave that date. What were they thinking?

Yeah, nothing even technical about it. If a date or target window was never announced, there’s no delay. And the last chatter we heard about Everwild was they still didn’t even really know what they were doing or what the game’s core concept was. Announced way, way too early.

Avowed I’m sure is fine, it’s just since it’s the biggest game Obsidian’s ever made, 2024 or 2025 is probably when we’ll see it and play it.

 

[jm89]

return sold half a mill, not great figures by Sony standard. Sony had nothing for the rest of the year, it was dissapointiong. yeah Microsoft disappointing this year but its happened to both of them just a year apart

Nope sony 2021 and ms 2022 nowhere near comparable, when you throw in ratchet and returnal ms have nothing comparable to those this year in quality.

Returnal was released by a lesser known studio and the genre also made the audience much smaller, with small marketing sony set their expectation and they considered it a mega hit

 

[TLZ]

Just shut up Grubb.

Shut up.

 

[Sosokrates]

Thanks for demonstrating the point I made in my first post:

No it doesn't, you just said a bunch of lies in that post.

 

[Bojanglez]

Xbox wanted to sell people the first party exclusive GamePass dream.

This is an interesting point of discussion.

If the stars align and all the games are ready, do they purposefully hold back releases to space out content or just get it all out there when its' ready?

Do consumers really care about 9 exclusives one year vs 2 exclusives the next? I mean outside of fanboys bickering about 'who won 2023?'

Release when ready; - it's early in a new generation, people making decisions on platforms, bird in the hand and all that OR
Holding back releases; - through sheer breadth of developers, they can now eliminate crunch, spend more time on graphics and better QA/squash bugs.

I think the problem comes from them going hard on Gamepass marketing and promotion in 2021/2 and selling the day one first party exclusives dream. If people are subbing for a year and then they push back it probably is a bit harder to swallow. To be fair though, I think they've done a pretty good job of providing decent content without much first party stuff and will continue to do so until all these are ready (in 2025 )

 

[ungalo]

If you're complaining about a cross gen game you must really hate this gen thus far. You must come to accept it.

I don't see how you interpret my post as a rant against cross gen games (if it's because of Psychonauts, i was pointing out the fact it's not an exclusive). It's true that cross gen is really bad in my opinion but even besides that Xbox just don't release interesting games. Actually my post would be valid in 2017 or 2018 like it is now, and for pretty much every year in between regarding what content Xbox put on the table.

And again i don't own a PS4 or a PS5, just a Series X atm.

 

[phil_t98]

Nope sony 2021 and ms 2022 nowhere near comparable, when you throw in ratchet and returnal ms have nothing comparable to those this year in quality.

Returnal was released by a lesser known studio and the genre also made the audience much smaller, with small marketing sony set their expectation and they considered it a mega hit

are you serious?

Forza horizon 5

flight simulator

Halo infintie

Psychonauts

all as good as those 2 games if not better. I personally would have Forza horizon 5 as my game of the year

 

[DeepEnigma]

We are in the list wars phase:

 

[jm89]

are you serious?

Forza horizon 5

flight simulator

Halo infintie

Psychonauts

all as good as those 2 games if not better. I personally would have Forza horizon 5 as my game of the year

All those games come out in 2022? Seen as we are comparing the "worst" years of both sony and ms.

 

[SafeOrAlone]

Hey Jeff,

Shut the fuck up unless your got proof this time you nasty cunt.

With Regards,


-The Entire Fucking Internet

Love your avatar, man. Wishing for more Guyver stories someday.

 

[phil_t98]

All those games come out in 2022? Seen as we are comparing the "worst" years of both sony and ms.

yes the same year as rachet and returnal. Microsoft rightly got publisher of the year last year, am sure Sony will get it this year to

 

[jm89]

yes the same year as rachet and returnal. Microsoft rightly got publisher of the year last year, am sure Sony will get it this year to

Nah this is what you said.

yeah Microsoft disappointing this year but its happened to both of them just a year apart

We were comparing sony 2021 to ms 2022.

 

[phil_t98]

Nah this is what you said.



We were comparing sony 2021 to ms 2022.

yes Sony didn't have a great year last year because their games got delayed, this year microsaofts have

 

[abacab driver]

Is this really a thread of people triggered at the thought of Xbox releasing more than 3 1st party games next year?

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I'm more interested in the quality control than the number of games released. I don't want to see games like sea of thieves that takes years to get enough content or games like bleeding edge that get shut down in under a year. etc. Just release compete games that get 80+ MC.

 

[phil_t98]

I'm more interested in the quality control than the number of games released. I don't want to see games like sea of thieves that takes years to get enough content or games like bleeding edge that get shut down in under a year. etc. Just release compete games that get 80+ MC.

think most if not all of the games last year got that didn't they?

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

think most if not all of the games last year got that didn't they?

Well I also meant games people actually want to play. haha. I couldn't care less about most of those "best publisher of the year" games.

 

[phil_t98]

Well I also meant games people actually want to play. haha. I couldn't care less about most of those "best publisher of the year" games.

coarse they are game people want to play, maybe not your own taste but lots of people play them and still play them ie:fora horizon 5

 

[Stooky]

Sigh .. why is it always the same couple of users every thread ..

Am I lying?

 

[Lognor]

I don't see how you interpret my post as a rant against cross gen games (if it's because of Psychonauts, i was pointing out the fact it's not an exclusive). It's true that cross gen is really bad in my opinion but even besides that Xbox just don't release interesting games. Actually my post would be valid in 2017 or 2018 like it is now, and for pretty much every year in between regarding what content Xbox put on the table.

And again i don't own a PS4 or a PS5, just a Series X atm.

Why did you buy an Xbox if ms doesn't "releasing interesting games"? Weird purchase

 

[ungalo]

Why did you buy an Xbox if ms doesn't "releasing interesting games"? Weird purchase

I bought it in 2020 not long after the Bethesda announcement i believe. Love western RPGs, they have Obsidian, inXile, Bethesda, Arkane, id...love those studios. Gamepass was also a reason but a more minor reason.

As i said in my first post on the topic, i don't think that what Jeff Grubb is saying is absurd, i expect those games to come out eventually. And anyway, i still want to play them, i'm not going to sell my Xbox, but i can still state the "fact" that the last years, considering the end of the Xbox One and the gen transition, from a content production standpoint, are just a complete disaster.

I don't really know the context of the forum but i feel that when you say things like that you are suspected to be a troll or a console fanboy, while from my point of view, i find it odd that people would defend what Microsoft are doing.