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"I Need a New PC!" 2015 Part 2. Read the OP. Rocking 2500K's until HBM2 and beyond.

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Vuze

Member
Ordering some stuff for my first sleeving attempt from Highflow (they actually have better prices and selection than the local modding-oriented store I planned ordering from before + free shipping due to their store redesign celebration).

Planning to sleeve 4x 60cm fan extensions and 5x 50cm SATA data. I guess I can't mess up much there. I got 3,4:1 & 4:1 heatshrinks and 5m SATA data sleeve as well as 11m normal sleeve so that should be plenty for this project and some other stuff down the line.

Also the Lamptron modding kit for removing the fan connectors (my Lamptron LED stripe started to fail on me after 3 weeks but it seems the kit is the go-to tool with all the adapters and stuff). I still need a heat gun but I'll probably pick up the Proxxon Micro here in Germany. I love their tools, have served me well plus the heat gun is not that expensive.

Anything I'm missing? My personal checklist is complete but I thought I'd check back with PC GAF before I place the order.

Hey all,

I've recently pulled the trigger on a fairly decent build.

I7 6600k oc 4.5ghz
256gb Samsung m2/1tb mechanical
Gtx 970
16gb ddr4

I've been seeing a lot about the 1070 and 1080 cards, but as I only plan on gaming at 1080p for the foreseeable future, is it really worth ditching the 970 now and going in for a 1070?

Or do you think I can maybe squeeze high settings for a couple of years with the above?

Cheers Chrizzy
Upgrade when you feel like you can't sustain the IQ/framerate you want in the games you play. No need to jump on the 10 Series right at launch if you're still satisfied, especially at 1080p(60 I presume).
 
Hey all,

I've recently pulled the trigger on a fairly decent build.

I7 6600k oc 4.5ghz
256gb Samsung m2/1tb mechanical
Gtx 970
16gb ddr4

I've been seeing a lot about the 1070 and 1080 cards, but as I only plan on gaming at 1080p for the foreseeable future, is it really worth ditching the 970 now and going in for a 1070?

Or do you think I can maybe squeeze high settings for a couple of years with the above?

Cheers Chrizzy
 

GlamFM

Banned
First problem!

Woohoo!

The three leads coming from the front-panel on my NZXTcase (ON/OFF, HDD LED, Power LED) have two black wires each. On each of these leads, one of the wires is marked with a little arrow on the connector. What is the convention? Does the arrow indicate ground wire or positive?

Here:

Case manual:

pjP3RWJ.jpg


Board manual:

l2enmh1.jpg


How am I supposed to know?
 

e90Mark

Member
Hey all,

I've recently pulled the trigger on a fairly decent build.

I7 6600k oc 4.5ghz
256gb Samsung m2/1tb mechanical
Gtx 970
16gb ddr4

I've been seeing a lot about the 1070 and 1080 cards, but as I only plan on gaming at 1080p for the foreseeable future, is it really worth ditching the 970 now and going in for a 1070?

Or do you think I can maybe squeeze high settings for a couple of years with the above?

Cheers Chrizzy

If you're sticking to 1080p/60, just stick with the 970 until you're not seeing that. The launch of the 10 series is a bit messy with the FE price markup, etc.
 
Any pixel buffs here?

I have a really strong PC that can get 4k on some games but I only have a 1080 monitor. Does this mean the 4k will just be downscaled to 1080? Is there any visual difference between a 4k game on a 1080 monitor vs a 1080 game on a 1080 monitor?
 
So if idle is 1.14v and load is 1.17v, you have too much LLC. Try Level 4. Adjust until the load vcore is just below idle.
You can also see that you have a big Vdrop of 0.08v! And a Vrise of 0.03v. You don't need to test this for an hour, just a minute to get the vcore reading.

Your going to need around 1.32v to get the load vcore near 1.24v since we know the Vdrop is 0.08v.

Terribly sorry for being super duber daft about all of this.

I changed the LLC to "Level 4" within the BIOS. In CPU-Z on idle the field "Core Voltage" says 1,14, and when I run Prime95 with a test it stays the same but will sporadically change to 1,28 for a split second and then go back to 1,14.

I only changed LLC within the BIOS not the other voltage options.

Also I don't think I understand why I want the voltage when the test is running, to be lower then when it is in idle. Wouldn't I want to push as much power to the CPU as possible in order to make all the numbers go up?
 

wowzors

Member
Anyone here make a new pc with a M.2 Samsung 950 from scratch and install windows 10 on it? It sounds like m2 slots are not recognized right away, so I am a little worried about trying it.
 

e90Mark

Member
Anyone here make a new pc with a M.2 Samsung 950 from scratch and install windows 10 on it? It sounds like m2 slots are not recognized right away, so I am a little worried about trying it.
Yup. W10 has a generic M.2 NVMe driver, so you'll be fine. You can install the proper Samsung driver after you're all setup to get max speeds.

EDIT: I did this on the z170 chipset.
Any pixel buffs here?

I have a really strong PC that can get 4k on some games but I only have a 1080 monitor. Does this mean the 4k will just be downscaled to 1080? Is there any visual difference between a 4k game on a 1080 monitor vs a 1080 game on a 1080 monitor?

You're downsampling. In short, yes there is a visual difference. The PC is rendering the game at a much higher resolution, then the GPU is rescaling it down, resulting in a sharper image.
 

LilJoka

Member
Terribly sorry for being super duber daft about all of this.

I changed the LLC to "Level 4" within the BIOS. In CPU-Z on idle the field "Core Voltage" says 1,14, and when I run Prime95 with a test it stays the same but will sporadically change to 1,28 for a split second and then go back to 1,14.

I only changed LLC within the BIOS not the other voltage options.

Also I don't think I understand why I want the voltage when the test is running, to be lower then when it is in idle. Wouldn't I want to push as much power to the CPU as possible in order to make all the numbers go up?

That's very odd if the vcore is jumping from 1.14v to 1.28v.
When you run prime95 are the worker threads erroring out? Have you checked the temperatures?

The reason you want the load vcore to be slightly lower than idle is a bit complex, let me try to explain, it applies to systems from ivy bridge and older and using offset vcore.

First the difference between offset and manual vcore.

When the system is stock, the vcore scales with CPU speed. At idle you might see 1.2ghz 0.9v. At load 3.5ghz 1.25v.

When using manual vcore the vcore is pretty much the same at idle and load (depending on overall LLC, at worst you drop by Vdrop and Vdroop). This means your pushing unnecessary vcore at low speeds.

When using offset, each multiplier looks up the required vcore in a hidden look up table. It then adds the offset vcore to this value. For example, the CPU requests 0.8v at idle and the offset is 0.1v. The CPU will therefore be fed 0.9v at idle.
The CPU requests 1.25v at 3.5ghz so will receive 1.35v.
The CPU requests 1.35v at 4.5ghz so will receive 1.45v. This you test for prime95 stability.

First thing to note, if the LLC is set such that load and idle vcore is similar, the offset won't need to be as large as the offset will also need to counteract the Vdrop and Vdroop.

Second thing to note and answer your question.

If LLC is set to high, you run the risk of using too little vcore in the range 3.5ghz (stock max speed) to 4.4ghz. Prime95 doesn't test the vcore here, it only tests load vcore at max CPU speed set.
Now if your LLC is too high, you might run a +0.02v offset.
CPU requests 1.28v at 4.2ghz, therefore is fed 1.3v. But what if the CPU needed 1.32v? You have no way to really test accurately.

Setting the LLC appropriately helps mitigate this scenario.

Even for fixed vcore, your board determines the vcore and LLC response based on load, you can be flicking through web pages and find the CPU switches to 4.5ghz but actually using idle vcore. Now if that vcore is lower than the load vcore you risk a crash.

Hope that helps understand why we set LLC like this. In the end you just have to set a slightly higher vcore or offset to get the load vcore desired which is not an issue. It's how the frequency changes and guesstimate vcore for each frequency is being handled that LLC has an impact on.
 

LordAlu

Member
First problem!

Woohoo!

The three leads coming from the front-panel on my NZXTcase (ON/OFF, HDD LED, Power LED) have two black wires each. On each of these leads, one of the wires is marked with a little arrow on the connector. What is the convention? Does the arrow indicate ground wire or positive?

Here:

Case manual:

pjP3RWJ.jpg


Board manual:

l2enmh1.jpg


How am I supposed to know?
Technically the arrow indicates positive, but it entirely depends upon case and motherboard as to whether it really cares which way round you plug them in. To be sure, just make sure the arrow socket into a positive pin.
 

wowzors

Member
That's very odd if the vcore is jumping from 1.14v to 1.28v.
When you run prime95 are the worker threads erroring out? Have you checked the temperatures?

The reason you want the load vcore to be slightly lower than idle is a bit complex, let me try to explain, it applies to systems from ivy bridge and older and using offset vcore.

First the difference between offset and manual vcore.

When the system is stock, the vcore scales with CPU speed. At idle you might see 1.2ghz 0.9v. At load 3.5ghz 1.25v.

When using manual vcore the vcore is pretty much the same at idle and load (depending on overall LLC, at worst you drop by Vdrop and Vdroop). This means your pushing unnecessary vcore at low speeds.

When using offset, each multiplier looks up the required vcore in a hidden look up table. It then adds the offset vcore to this value. For example, the CPU requests 0.8v at idle and the offset is 0.1v. The CPU will therefore be fed 0.9v at idle.
The CPU requests 1.25v at 3.5ghz so will receive 1.35v.
The CPU requests 1.35v at 4.5ghz so will receive 1.45v. This you test for prime95 stability.

First thing to note, if the LLC is set such that load and idle vcore is similar, the offset won't need to be as large as the offset will also need to counteract the Vdrop and Vdroop.

Second thing to note and answer your question.

If LLC is set to high, you run the risk of using too little vcore in the range 3.5ghz (stock max speed) to 4.4ghz. Prime95 doesn't test the vcore here, it only tests load vcore at max CPU speed set.
Now if your LLC is too high, you might run a +0.02v offset.
CPU requests 1.28v at 4.2ghz, therefore is fed 1.3v. But what if the CPU needed 1.32v? You have no way to really test accurately.

Setting the LLC appropriately helps mitigate this scenario.

Even for fixed vcore, your board determines the vcore and LLC response based on load, you can be flicking through web pages and find the CPU switches to 4.5ghz but actually using idle vcore. Now if that vcore is lower than the load vcore you risk a crash.

Hope that helps understand why we set LLC like this. In the end you just have to set a slightly higher vcore or offset to get the load vcore desired which is not an issue. It's how the frequency changes and guesstimate vcore for each frequency is being handled that LLC has an impact on.

The ud3p that he has is not my favorite board, I have it as well and have a 2500k at 4.5ghz on it. The board is wildly inaccurate with voltages and tends to fluctuate like a son of a bitch. I could never get llc to work correctly with it the vdroop would always kill my machine.

For instance I have.my core set at 1.34 it the actual voltages are closer to 1.43, its just a shitty board.
 

LilJoka

Member
Check out some reviews on it if you are unsure. Personally I thought it was worth it.

I have ordered it lol

The ud3p that he has is not my favorite board, I have it as well and have a 2500k at 4.5ghz on it. The board is wildly inaccurate with voltages and tends to fluctuate like a son of a bitch. I could never get llc to work correctly with it the vdroop would always kill my machine.

For instance I have.my core set at 1.34 it the actual voltages are closer to 1.43, its just a shitty board.

Oh this I was unaware of. Seems like it has a big Vdrop and droop that's for sure!

In this scenario it might be best to run a manual vcore without LLC then switch to Offset and match the offset to get the same load vcore as tested stable with manual in CPUz.

You can start at 1.35v safely in this scenario.

Ah , I'm afraid of it breaking in a year and being stuck without warranty...
Is 250 usd a good price for a new 380x?

Fair concerns. I think if you keep an eye on the 970s you'll get a good deal when the 1070 arrives, but you'll have to be fast as they do drop in price but not much stock. I'm not sure on where the AMD cards sit in value.
 

GlamFM

Banned
Technically the arrow indicates positive, but it entirely depends upon case and motherboard as to whether it really cares which way round you plug them in. To be sure, just make sure the arrow socket into a positive pin.

Can I break anything or can I just trial and error myself through this?
 

LilJoka

Member
Can I break anything or can I just trial and error myself through this?

Switches don't have polarity.
Black wire means negative.
Black wire marked positive.

Only LEDs will need correct polarity and you won't break it by installing them backwards. So trial and error is fine.
 

GlamFM

Banned
Switches don't have polarity.
Black wire means negative.
Black wire marked positive.

Only LEDs will need correct polarity and you won't break it by installing them backwards. So trial and error is fine.

Thanks! We´ll get through this... eventually.

;)
 
Just pulled the trigger on the following in preparation for either a 1080 or 1070 next month.
CPU: Intel i7 6700K $310 - ebay deal
CPU Fan: Noctua NH-D15 $99 - Amazon
MOBO: ASUS Z170-A $157 Superbiiz
Ram: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 3000 (12-17-17-35) Cas 15 $69 - Newegg
SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 250GB $80 - Amazon
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB SATA 7200 Rpm 3.5in 6GB/S $54 - Amazon
PSU: Corsair RMx 750x $100 - Newegg (was on sale when I ordered)
Case: Corsair 400q $100 - Amazon
Total: $969 with shipping and tax included.
 
Upgrade when you feel like you can't sustain the IQ/framerate you want in the games you play. No need to jump on the 10 Series right at launch if you're still satisfied, especially at 1080p(60 I presume).

Sorry. Missed this. Yeah I think you're right.

Getting caught up in the hype train for Pascal when in reality I've been more than happy so far with the 970. Coming from an a8 5500 and 750 ti has already been a revelation tbh.

Thanks all.
 

e90Mark

Member

Fou-Lu

Member
I am really wanting to do a Mini-ITX or small Micro ATX build for my next PC, but I am having a hard time deciding on a case. Most of the best looking ones seem to lack features or room for full components or just cost A LOT of money. (Looking at you Lian Li tempered glass cases!). I want something like the Lian-Li PC-O6S that shows off your build well and looks super clean. I suppose I have time to decide because I am still hoping to wait for HBM2.
 

kennah

Member
I am really wanting to do a Mini-ITX or small Micro ATX build for my next PC, but I am having a hard time deciding on a case. Most of the best looking ones seem to lack features or room for full components or just cost A LOT of money. (Looking at you Lian Li tempered glass cases!). I want something like the Lian-Li PC-O6S that shows off your build well and looks super clean. I suppose I have time to decide because I am still hoping to wait for HBM2.


http://www.caselabs-store.com/bullet-bh2-mitx-case/

Just released. So beautiful.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
I am really wanting to do a Mini-ITX or small Micro ATX build for my next PC, but I am having a hard time deciding on a case. Most of the best looking ones seem to lack features or room for full components or just cost A LOT of money. (Looking at you Lian Li tempered glass cases!). I want something like the Lian-Li PC-O6S that shows off your build well and looks super clean. I suppose I have time to decide because I am still hoping to wait for HBM2.

I've had the ft03 mini for 3 1/2 years now and I really like. Great build quality and small foot print.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=333

highly recommended
 

LostDonkey

Member
So I can get an X99 5820k build with 16gb ddr4 for around the same price as a z170 6700k 8gb ddr4 build. Which is the better choice?

Is there going to be a new 6core coming up or is that the only choice for now?

It's gonna be used for gaming primarily with streaming, 3d modelling, and some light video editing.

I'm edging toward the 6 core just because, ya know, 6 cores.
 

e90Mark

Member
So I can get an X99 5820k build with 16gb ddr4 for around the same price as a z170 6700k 8gb ddr4 build. Which is the better choice?

Is there going to be a new 6core coming up or is that the only choice for now?

It's gonna be used for gaming primarily with streaming, 3d modelling, and some light video editing.

I'm edging toward the 6 core just because, ya know, 6 cores.

Broadwell-E is coming, so yeah, the refresh to the 5820k is coming.

For what you listed, go with x99.
 

valeo

Member
I love my Phanteks Pro M; can't believe a reasonably budget case is so good.

One question, though - I only have one fan at the back (140mm I believe).

Should I get a 200m fan to put on the front? Or a couple of smaller fans to put on the top of the case? It's not getting super hot at the moment, but it's pretty cold in Australia at the moment but once we hit peak summer it'll be burning up.
 
Guys, I have a question. It's more laptop related. Right now I have a laptop with an Intel i5 5500u without a video card. It's garbage when it comes to graphics.

I'm wondering if it's smarter to buy a laptop with a good APU, or a CPU + GPU combo. I'm aware the latter is more powerful, but I've always been an HD7850 level customer when it comes to cards. I'm happy if I can run high on 1366 x 768 at 60fps. I'm looking for a more cost effective solution. I'm trying to research AMD's APUs, but I can't figure out which ones are for laptop. I keep running into Desktop APUs.
 

LilJoka

Member
Cool. I wasn't sure about it at first, but after I got it I was pretty happy with it.

I guess I have 14 days to try it out atleast. My only concern is battery life - 30hours or so. I won't be using such high dpi's or the LEDs though. If I was at a desk it would be fine to just plug it in, but I'm on the sofa. So I'll have to dedicate a plug for it down the side of the sofa.
 

catabarez

Member
I guess I have 14 days to try it out atleast. My only concern is battery life - 30hours or so. I won't be using such high dpi's or the LEDs though. If I was at a desk it would be fine to just plug it in, but I'm on the sofa. So I'll have to dedicate a plug for it down the side of the sofa.

You could just plug it in each night.
 

LilJoka

Member
You could just plug it in each night.

Could do, just at the moment my Logitech wireless mouse has only needed a battery replacement a couple of times a year, and it just takes AA batteries. I'm just being lazy I guess. I hope it lasts a week, I only use the PC for a few hours a day in the evening. Shouldn't be a massive issue.
 

bananas

Banned
Anyone have thoughts on this build before I go through with it?

I'm looking to pick up a 1070 (or 1080 maybe), and want to get a second one 2-3 years down the line and SLI them.

Also want a small PC that I can easily travel with.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($233.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($141.88 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill NT Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($53.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($124.00 @ Amazon)
Case: BitFenix Phenom M Midnight Black MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($96.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($94.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $770.73
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-05-20 09:46 EDT-0400
 

ISee

Member
Anyone have thoughts on this build before I go through with it?

I'm looking to pick up a 1070 (or 1080 maybe), and want to get a second one 2-3 years down the line and SLI them.

Also want a small PC that I can easily travel with.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($233.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($141.88 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill NT Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($53.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($124.00 @ Amazon)
Case: BitFenix Phenom M Midnight Black MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($96.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($94.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $770.73
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-05-20 09:46 EDT-0400

Seems fine but planing for SLI in 3 years isn't a good idea.

1.) SLI support is mostly bad and I doubt this will change in the future.
2.) Selling your old card and getting the corresponding successor is the better solution in most cases. E.g the 980 was released ~ 20 months ago. And the successor card already performs around 2x980 (sli) levels.
3.) Your plan is like buying a 780 (back in the days) and now buying a second 780. From todays perspective that's not reasonable. The new 1070 will (probably) perform around 980Ti levels and the 980Ti is alread faster than 2x780s. I'm willing to bet that this won't change and that 1x"1270" will outperform 2x1080s in the future.

4k resolution said:

And you could go for a PSU with less wattage if you decide to not go for sli in the future.
Something around 550W-600W should be enough.
 

Enordash

Member
I was hoping someone could provide a bit of advice. I'm currently using two BenQ 24" 1080p TN monitors. Would you say that I'm robbing myself of a significantly better gaming experience by not upgrading? Is the difference between TN and IPS enough to justify the expense? With a GTX 970, could I really even make good use out of something with a higher resolution? If I went with a 1440p monitor, I'd probably be incredibly bothered by a dual monitor setup where both screens aren't the same. I'm really just thinking out loud a bit, but if anyone wants to weigh in with their person experiences, that'd be fantastic.
 
I was hoping someone could provide a bit of advice. I'm currently using two BenQ 24" 1080p TN monitors. Would you say that I'm robbing myself of a significantly better gaming experience by not upgrading? Is the difference between TN and IPS enough to justify the expense? With a GTX 970, could I really even make good use out of something with a higher resolution? If I went with a 1440p monitor, I'd probably be incredibly bothered by a dual monitor setup where both screens aren't the same. I'm really just thinking out loud a bit, but if anyone wants to weigh in with their person experiences, that'd be fantastic.

Is it just for gaming or also for work? What are your system's specs?
 
I am thinking of upgrading my Ivy Bridge PC and am doing some preliminary research. My current case is a Carbide 500R, and it doesn't fit the larger 280mm AIO watercoolers. Is there enough of a performance bump that I should replace the case and go with a 280mm radiator?
 

bananas

Banned
Seems fine but planing for SLI in 3 years isn't a good idea.

1.) SLI support is mostly bad and I doubt this will change in the future.
2.) Selling your old card and getting the corresponding successor is the better solution in most cases. E.g the 980 was released ~ 20 months ago. And the successor card already performs around 2x980 (sli) levels.

3.) Your plan is like buying a 780 (back in the days) and now buying a second 780. From todays perspective that's not reasonable. The new 1070 will (probably) perform around 980Ti levels and the 980Ti is alread faster than 2x780s. I'm willing to bet that this won't change and that 1x"1270" will outperform 2x1080s in the future.



And you could go for a PSU with less wattage if you decide to not go for sli in the future.
Something around 550W-600W should be enough.
Hmm. I think I'll end up doing that instead.

Thank you!
 

Pachimari

Member
Guys, I need some quick help, I don't think it'll take a long time. I just received a new 4TB WD Green HDD and have connected it internally in my computer but it doesn't show up in Windows finder, or in the Disk Management window were I am currently at. What do I need to do, and how, for it to be recognized by Windows 10?

[edit]
Never mind, I figured it out.
 
That's very odd if the vcore is jumping from 1.14v to 1.28v.
When you run prime95 are the worker threads erroring out? Have you checked the temperatures?


In Prime95 I run the Small FFT test with no errors and 0 warnings.

Temperature is between 45c and 55c degrees according to HWMonitor.

HWMonitor also says that CPU Ccore Minimum is 1.128V and Max is 1.152V. The field "Value" says 1.140V
 
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