Support NeoGAF

[Bonsaibäumchen]

I SWEAR TO GOD ON MY LIFE

There is something wrong with the 30fps on my tv.

I dont know what it is. I have the xbr900h.

I can not play horizon at 30fps on it on my PS5. It has this stutter or something to it. Everyone is saying "30fps is fine in horizon. Youre just blind"

Its legit pissing me off, because on PS4 and my old tv, I used to play 30fps just fine. And I want to play at 30fps because horizon just looks so much better, but I cant. And I fucked around with my settings, but it always has this stutter that I just cant get rid of.......

/crying

Which HDMI Port are you using on your TV for the PS5?
Are you using the game mode of the TV?
Did you disable Motion blurr in the game?
Have your restarted the game and console twice after installing the Day One Patch?

I've had weird stuttering first, too. But that was because my x900h configuration was wrong. After fixing it and making sure its set up like mentioned in the video below I haven't had any issues anymore. Also disabling motion blurr made the game feel more fluid for me.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah, I knew this wasn't normal and a my TV only kinda thing

lol this is a good video. Explains why i was getting a headache when playing the game in 30 fps.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Which HDMI Port are you using on your TV for the PS5?
Are you using the game mode of the TV?
Did you disable Motion blurr in the game?
Have your restartet the game and console twice after installing the Day One Patch?

I've had weird stuttering first, too. But that was because my x900h configuration was wrong. After fixing it and making sure its set up like mentioned in the video below I haven't had any issues anymore.

I'll look at all this stuff.

I am not discounting the fact that this shit is all in my head. The thing is that when I just leave the screen alone at 30fps, the game looks good to me fps wise.

Its when I start moving the camera around that I notice the stutter, specifically far away things. Like the mountains. I'll notice the mountains judder.

And I 100% see what they mean about the screen darkening. I'm at a night time scene right now, and yeah, everytime you move, the screen darkens then lightens back up once you stop. Lol. Never noticed that.

 

[jorgejjvr]

lol this is a good video. Explains why i was getting a headache when playing the game in 30 fps.

Yeah, it's rough, I made 2 other tests on that as well

 

[Bulletbrain]

Neogaf isnt a good measure of things. You would be better off posting what developers have seen considering they track all that stuff now. (without permission I might add)

Well, considering the fact that the majority of games released this gen does have some kind of performance mode, I'd say developers also know that performance modes are popular.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

click bait title

 

[rofif]

I will be honest... playing on lg c1 for over 25 hours in res mode and didn't notice it..

 

[DeepEnigma]

Tantric sex, taints, Vincent needs an escort or 3.

 

[Woggleman]

There are issues but this is nowhere near a Cyberpunk level type of thing. I don't know what I did on my TV or in game settings but performance mode to me looks super smooth and looks great in my experience. I had to turn the HDR brightness a bit but that is it. Not discounting anybody's experience but it has certainly been a good one for me.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Saw this on era. Just insane how much detail is lost when going from 30 fps to the 60 fps performance mode. And this doesnt even show the shimmering that plagues all foliage scenes in gameplay.

Zoom in on Aloy's face but even the armored dude near the camera has all of its details blurred out. There is no way this is 1800p cb. Feels like 1080p at best.

Seems like they lowered the texture filtering which is causing the MIPmaps to have low samples and therefore blurrier textures.

 

[Dr Bass]

I SWEAR TO GOD ON MY LIFE

There is something wrong with the 30fps on my tv.

I dont know what it is. I have the xbr900h.

I can not play horizon at 30fps on it on my PS5. It has this stutter or something to it. Everyone is saying "30fps is fine in horizon. Youre just blind"

Its legit pissing me off, because on PS4 and my old tv, I used to play 30fps just fine. And I want to play at 30fps because horizon just looks so much better, but I cant. And I fucked around with my settings, but it always has this stutter that I just cant get rid of.......

/crying

I am on the 900H as well. 85" version. Looks great in resolution mode to me, along with the other 30fps games like Ratchet. Of course I would prefer 60 but the visual trade off is too much. No idea what's going on with your set. I'm sure people have asked but are you in game mode, which ports etc? Doing any black frame insertion or have any of the visual processing stuff that typically makes games look worse on?

 

[GymWolf]

Going from 60 to 30 in Spider-Man is much more jarring to me framerate wise than this game. At least from what I remember.

I will have to try it again.

In spidey is way more noticeable because traversal and combat are super acrobatic.

 

[Dr Bass]

In spidey is way more noticeable because traversal and combat are super acrobatic.

Yep. Played Miles in performance RT. Trade off was totally worth it there. Not worth it in HFW IMO.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Yeah, I knew this wasn't normal and a my TV only kinda thing

This looks like their specular shading for the foliage which is completely dependent on camera view angle. Specular contribution IS in fact dependent on camera angle, but it seems like it just pops on after a certain angle instead of always being calculated throughout all angles from 0 - 90 degrees. This again is another optimization trick to save FPS.

 

[GymWolf]

Yep. Played Miles in performance RT. Trade off was totally worth it there. Not worth it in HFW IMO.

Played in performance without rtx because to me the res bump is more important than some reflections that i don't even have time to check when i fly at 200km\h in the sky...

 

[Dr Bass]

Yeah, I knew this wasn't normal and a my TV only kinda thing

Isn't this what the fixed with the update? I had this on my first play through (you can look at my posts here where I rip the game pretty hard at first) and after doing the restart they suggested it's totally gone.

 

[Woggleman]

Isn't this what the fixed with the update? I had this on my first play through (you can look at my posts here where I rip the game pretty hard at first) and after doing the restart they suggested it's totally gone.

For some people it seemed to work and for some it didn't. It seemed to have worked for me.

 

[Zathalus]

This looks like their specular shading for the foliage which is completely dependent on camera view angle. Specular contribution IS in fact dependent on camera angle, but it seems like it just pops on after a certain angle instead of always being calculated throughout all angles from 0 - 90 degrees. This again is another optimization trick to save FPS.

It appears to not occur with everyone. Super obvious in that video but I couldn't replicate it on my end. No idea why. I've had several other minor bugs, like the intro cutscene streaming issue.

I'm playing on quality mode though as performance mode looks terrible.

 

[ckaneo]

I know. Thats why I think I'm crazy lol.



Yeah, but at 60fps lol. I should try those and see. But I would need to download them again which will take time.

Yeah, report back your findings. Could just be your eyes or could be your tv.

Well, considering the fact that the majority of games released this gen does have some kind of performance mode, I'd say developers also know that performance modes are popular.

We have performance modes because it's early in the generation and the CPU upgrade allows it.

Dont expect it later in the generation when UE5 level stuff starts to come out like the Matrix demo

 

[VFXVeteran]

It appears to not occur with everyone. Super obvious in that video but I couldn't replicate it on my end. No idea why. I've had several other minor bugs, like the intro cutscene streaming issue.

I believe it's in the graphics code and when they apply the tone mapping pass and then it gets converted to HDR, it's showing up on some tvs and less so on others. This is just a theory. I don't have the game so I can't make a concrete judgement on what's happening.

 

[DeepEnigma]

For some people it seemed to work and for some it didn't. It seemed to have worked for me.

I never had the flicker issue (thought I did download it Saturday morning), and 30 or 60 is not a massive difference in IQ, noticeable, yes, but not as jarring while playing it than starring at still images online.

 

[GHG]

I never had the flicker issue (thought I did download it Saturday morning), and 30 or 60 is not a massive difference in IQ, noticeable, yes, but not as jarring while playing it than starring at still images online.

DF also noted (during their weekly video) that they also didn't experience issues with pop-in that some other users/outlets reported and weren't able to reproduce it. So God knows what's going on.

 

[SlimySnake]

DF also noted (during their weekly video) that they also didn't experience issues with pop-in that some other users/outlets reported and weren't able to reproduce it. So God knows what's going on.

I have experienced no pop-in in my playthrough. The foliage rendering distance in this game is the highest ive ever seen.

 

[Woggleman]

At the end of the day most of us loved San Andreas on PS2 and that was one of the buggiest and glitchiest things I have played so I am not going to sweat the issues which don't affect my enjoyment.

 

[Chris_Rivera]

The fanboys be squirming. So satisfying.

 

[GHG]

I have experienced no pop-in in my playthrough. The foliage rendering distance in this game is the highest ive ever seen.

Yep same, and I'm playing in resolution mode because their AA solution sucks donkey balls. I feel like I'm one of the lucky ones because I'm yet to run in to (or see) any of the problems that are being documented.

The number one thing I'd like them to sort out is the presentation in performance mode because right now that's unplayable for me, the IQ is simply not good enough. The other issues will be a nightmare for them to sort though due to the fact that not everything is consistent across everyone's install/TV.

 

[Kerotan]

Can I ask anyone who has played both.. What looks better, zero dawn after the 60fps patch or forbiddon west in 60fps?

 

[GHG]

Can I ask anyone who has played both.. What looks better, zero dawn after the 60fps patch or forbiddon west in 60fps?

In terms of IQ zero dawn is better but its clear in that case that the native resolution is much higher.

Everything outside of IQ is better in Forbidden West though, so it depends on how sensitive you are to poor IQ (along with how big your TV is and your sitting distance).

 

[SlimySnake]

Can I ask anyone who has played both.. What looks better, zero dawn after the 60fps patch or forbiddon west in 60fps?

Zero Dawn. No question.

Forbidden West has far more foliage but the shimmering in 60 fps makes the foliage look far worse simply because there is so much more of it.

 

[iHaunter]

So I watched the whole video, legit everything he's talking about is so minor. I like this guys HD reviews, but that title is such clickbait. lol

 

[Spaceman292]

Nah, I dont have to think it. I just have to SEE it. You just choose not to believe your own eyes or listen to expert analysis and just live in your own bizarre alternate reality where things that look bad in real life look great in your reality. It's called delusion.

I can't see any difference. I don't need some idiot telling me that I'm not having as much fun as I think I am.

 

[T0minator]

Zero Dawn. No question.

Forbidden West has far more foliage but the shimmering in 60 fps makes the foliage look far worse simply because there is so much more of it.

Is it still shimmering for you? Or did you stop playing before the patch? I don't see any shimmering, I did initially, but now I don't. It's been great at 60fps

 

[Three]

I will give this a shot, but right now, outside of when its snowing or raining, 30 fps feels much much smoother than it did before i disabled motion blur and camera sensitivity. I think Vincent is on to something here with the camera movement causing brightness fluctuations. It is far more noticeable on OLEDS than LEDs like the Sony x900h. I have that tv too. I will see if its better on that tv.

My theory for the brightness fluctuations is a combination of things based on people who are seeing it but the main cause to me seems like high contrast high frequency detail when still. When you move and motion blur or TV specific ghosting occurs you end up with an inbetween brightness. When you have HDR on this difference in nits is greater and probably more noticeable. That's why I've seen some of the answers to resolve it on some TVs is to disable HDR, Motion Blur, reduce sharpening (which decreases high contrast differences) or switch to 60fps which lowers high frequency detail anyway even when still and lowers motion blur.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Try disabling motion blur and set camera sensitivity to minimum on both horizontal and vertical axis. It made the game playable for me in 30 fps. I had the same issues.

120hz TV? FS has a similar issue it has some wierd stutter on 120hz TVs I think because it doubles or triples the actual framerate. Have you also tried this

PS5's home screen, head to 'Settings', which can be found in the top right-hand corner. Select 'Screen and Video' and go to 'Video Output'. You can then select whether to enable or disable 120Hz output under 'Enable 120Hz Output'.

Disable it if it's enabled and see if it's smoother.

I have the PS5 hooked up to that TV and did not have any stuttering issues. I was actually quite impressed at how smooth the 30 was compared to other 30fps games.

Strange how it varies, however.

Which HDMI Port are you using on your TV for the PS5?
Are you using the game mode of the TV?
Did you disable Motion blurr in the game?
Have your restarted the game and console twice after installing the Day One Patch?

I've had weird stuttering first, too. But that was because my x900h configuration was wrong. After fixing it and making sure its set up like mentioned in the video below I haven't had any issues anymore. Also disabling motion blurr made the game feel more fluid for me.

I am on the 900H as well. 85" version. Looks great in resolution mode to me, along with the other 30fps games like Ratchet. Of course I would prefer 60 but the visual trade off is too much. No idea what's going on with your set. I'm sure people have asked but are you in game mode, which ports etc? Doing any black frame insertion or have any of the visual processing stuff that typically makes games look worse on?

I took a youtube video. Hopefully it shows what I'm seeing. Look at the clouds, or the tree in front of me. Or the rock to the left as I pan. Its not smooth. Its got this judder to it when I move.

Yes, its in game mode and in the right port. ALL extra features are turned off in the tv settings.

I had the exact same problem in ff7 remake intergrade when I tried the 30fps mode.

Or maybe you guys dont see anything and its just me haha.




When the camera is not moving, everything looks great.

 

[SlimySnake]

Is it still shimmering for you? Or did you stop playing before the patch? I don't see any shimmering, I did initially, but now I don't. It's been great at 60fps

What patch?

 

[VFXVeteran]

Zero Dawn. No question.

Forbidden West has far more foliage but the shimmering in 60 fps makes the foliage look far worse simply because there is so much more of it.

So you are going on record saying that PC version of Zero Dawn @ 60FPS looks better than FW @ 60FPS? j/k)

 

[DeepEnigma]

I took a youtube video. Hopefully it shows what I'm seeing. Look at the clouds, or the tree in front of me. Or the rock to the left as I pan. Its not smooth. Its got this judder to it when I move.

Yes, its in game mode and in the right port. ALL extra features are turned off in the tv settings.

I had the exact same problem in ff7 remake intergrade when I tried the 30fps mode.

Or maybe you guys dont see anything and its just me haha.

I see what you are talking about. I will have to test when I get home, but 30 will not be as smooth with faster panning compared to 60.

 

[Tarnpanzer]

 

[DeepEnigma]

These hyperbolic clickbait titles

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

I took a youtube video. Hopefully it shows what I'm seeing. Look at the clouds, or the tree in front of me. Or the rock to the left as I pan. Its not smooth. Its got this judder to it when I move.

Yes, its in game mode and in the right port. ALL extra features are turned off in the tv settings.

I had the exact same problem in ff7 remake intergrade when I tried the 30fps mode.

Or maybe you guys dont see anything and its just me haha.




When the camera is not moving, everything looks great.

Looks like black frame insertion to me. It makes a sort of double image.

 

[Corndog]

30 fps is fine in Forbidden West due to excellent input latency that makes the game still feel responsive but 60 fps is obviously better in terms of actual motion smoothness, especially on OLED TVs.

Personally, I played the game for 9 hours on the default 30 fps Resolution mode and had no issues with it despite my preference for 60 fps these days on my 55" LG B9 OLED TV. However, I did switch to the 60 fps Performance mode and have stuck with it despite the more noticeable pop in and sometimes distracting foliage shimmering due to the low resolution 3200x1800 (effectively 1600x1800) checkerboard resolution used. It just feels smoother to play but if the game had only shipped with a 30 fps mode then I honestly would have been fine with it.

My main reason for switching to 60 fps though wasn't for the higher framerate, it was actually to see if it reduced or fixed the annoyingly distracting camera cut stutter/pauses during cutscenes. And, no, sadly it doesn't, if anything it is worse than the 30 fps mode...

This game needs a 120 Hz 40 fps 4K checkerboard mode with a less aggressive sharpening filter to bridge the gap between the image quality of the 30 fps and 60 fps modes. Despite it working so well in Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart it seems none of Sony's other first-parties are using this which is a real shame and a genuine missed opportunity.

Has anyone measured its input latency. The first game felt sluggish to me but could of just been the controls.

 

[vpance]

Holy fuck that perf mode looks horribly aliased when they do the side by side comparo.

Edit: So it's an issue that's exaggerated on OLEDs. Would be interesting to see it compared to LCD

 

[Ulysses 31]

I took a youtube video. Hopefully it shows what I'm seeing. Look at the clouds, or the tree in front of me. Or the rock to the left as I pan. Its not smooth. Its got this judder to it when I move.

Yes, its in game mode and in the right port. ALL extra features are turned off in the tv settings.

I had the exact same problem in ff7 remake intergrade when I tried the 30fps mode.

When the camera is not moving, everything looks great.

That's OLED stutter. Side effect from the fast pixel response time.

 

[Dr Bass]

That's OLED stutter. Side effect from the fast pixel response time.

He's not using an OLED tv.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

I see what you are talking about. I will have to test when I get home, but 30 will not be as smooth with faster panning compared to 60.

Right, but I'm panning so slowly.

Looks like black frame insertion to me. It makes a sort of double image.

Ohhh? No idea what that is. I'm guessing there is nothing I can do about that?

That's OLED stutter. Side effect from the fast pixel response time.

This is the Sony xbr. Its an LED tv. No oled.

 

[Ulysses 31]

This is the Sony xbr. Its an LED tv. No oled.

It can happen on non OLEDs too.

It's pretty bad on my Samsung Q950TS without game motion plus.

 

[SlimySnake]

I can't see any difference. I don't need some idiot telling me that I'm not having as much fun as I think I am.

Who said anything about fun? We are talking about graphical issues here. Are you sure you are in the right thread?

If you cant see the difference in the first 30 seconds of this video then good for you. Just dont go around downplaying it and then calling experts wankers and idiots just for pointing it out.

 

[vpance]

I took a youtube video. Hopefully it shows what I'm seeing. Look at the clouds, or the tree in front of me. Or the rock to the left as I pan. Its not smooth. Its got this judder to it when I move.

Yes, its in game mode and in the right port. ALL extra features are turned off in the tv settings.

I had the exact same problem in ff7 remake intergrade when I tried the 30fps mode.

Or maybe you guys dont see anything and its just me haha.




When the camera is not moving, everything looks great.

I had that same feeling when I played FF7R 30FPS on my LCD where everything looked so choppy when panning the camera.

It took me a while but I got used to it. But it's terrible compared to say U4 or DeS remake 30FPS modes with its good motion blur usage.

 

[Dr Bass]

Right, but I'm panning so slowly.


Ohhh? No idea what that is. I'm guessing there is nothing I can do about that?


This is the Sony xbr. Its an LED tv. No oled.

You can definitely turn off black frame insertion. Its in the settings, I would see if you have that turned on, but if youre in game mode I thought it was off by default. Not positive though.

 

[SSfox]

Why play in 30 fps when you can plan at 60.

Outside of games like Quantic dream style i don't see why someone should pick 30 fps over 60 fps.