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HDTVTEST: Sorry, but Horizon Forbidden West's Gorgeous Visuals are TAINTED by Distracting Picture Quality Bugs
- Thread starter Arioco
- Start date
Oh I see although I'm still confused as to why you think this is in the 60fps mode though. Vincent showed it in 30fps mode and said it's reduced at 60fps. To me people are mentioning two different things. One, the topic of the thread, the brighness and waveform analysis results which fluctuates more in 30fps mode due to blur. Two, shimmering at 60fps in the foilage. to me two just seems like alpha testing and alpha texture resolution being lowered to hit 60fps and unrelated to one.
bender
What time is it?
Like yellow snow.
yeah they're 2 completley different issues.
one is motion blur fucking with the HDR, and another is the 60fps mode being lower res and needing a 'quicker' (and worse) anti aliasing method.
Tschumi
Member
Yellow with the bile of.. demons and.. orks and.. bogans
bender
What time is it?
I was thinking about you a few moments ago while shoveling snow and watching my rottie make the piles pure.
sendit
Member
Then why did you ask what patch?It looks fine on my TV. I've put in about 30hrs and since Saturday morning this past weekend I didn't even think it was an issue anymore until I saw this thread today. The game looks really great still. Maybe try closing the game again? Who knows. But it's great on my end
Same here, performance mode looks and feels great on my set. This isn't a universal problem like some people here are making it out to be. Resolution mode on the other, while great visually. The frame rate is puke inducing.
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Pedro Motta
Member
Talk about blowing things out of proportion lol.
Tell’em Keb
Member
Tainted I say, TAINTED!!!
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Taints: The Thread
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Ill take a note out of the framerate nerds page:
"If you cant see the difference youre blind. or slow."
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Chaplain
Member
You are not crazy. I am experiencing the same stuttering at 30 fps.
Tschumi
Member
Thinking of moi? Don't let Fido hear you say that, you'll have to twiddle his knob extra delicately after dinner tonight
Huevos de Oro
Member
They are getting bigger so it is becoming difficult to point out the negative aspect of a game from big publishers i guess.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
T0minator
Member
I can't do 30fps, no matter what. I'd take a cut in pixels then a cut in frames any day.
Performance mode runs perfectly on my set. I keep going back to my game thinking where are the issues at?
This game is ridiculously amazing. My mind continuously gets blown away with every single new area. It boggles my mind how Guerilla did this in 4 and half years.
This seems like a 100 percent "Sony thing". The same thing happened with the Last of us 2, which was objectively the best looking game last gen. People will always find faults with the things they want to find fault with. As someone who has finished Forbidden West, I can say with certainty that any visual bugs in the game don't stop it from being the best looking console game I've ever played. Could it have been better if it were PS5 only? Sure. Two things can be true. It was cross gen, and on my A90j, it's the best looking game.
VeganElduderino
Member
thanks thats freaking awsome
bender
What time is it?
Gross.
YeulEmeralda
Member
Well yeah gotta make clickbait. I speak from personal experience that you can play videogames without paying attention to ecelebs.
FrankWza
Member
Horizon Forbidden West Gets Its First Post-Launch Patch - IGN
Guerrilla Games has released its first post-launch patch for Horizon Forbidden West, which fixes several gameplay, graphics, and quest bugs – and stops the game crashing as much.
Tarnpanzer
Member
Maybe they are sitting to far away from their screen?
Or perhaps they game with eyes closed? I mean it's very obvious. Especially in more "foresty" areas with lots of palm trees and foliage. The noise is extremely distracting in performance mode. Doesn't matter where I sit. Seems like checkerboarding is a mistake.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
No it seems like flickering and shimmering is even worse on oleds as far as I've seen it on the forums and elsewhere.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I downloaded the new patch. To my eyes it looks better. It could be my imagination, but it seems better to me.
Rayderism
Member
I guess it's just because I have an older TV (Samsung MU6300) but I'm just not seeing most of the issues people are talking about. I haven't played since Sunday (work eats all my weekday time), but I had a 3-day weekend when the game released and put 40 hours into in that time. Loving the game, by the way. I do love my sci-fi.
I play in resolution mode and the TV is in game mode. When I tried the game in framerate mode, the drop in quality is very noticeable, but I didn't really see any extreme shimmering, just obvious lowering of texture detail.....like leaves that had multiple colors in res mode were more single color in FPS mode, as if the overall texture detail is lowered. Dense vegetation just looked....I don't know....kinda hazy/fuzzy looking in comparison. Stuff like that. It didn't take long for me to go back to res mode. Luckily, I'm very tolerant of lower framerates and 30fps doesn't bother me in the least.
As for asset pop-in, I've seen some, but it was mostly minor-minor stuff. Half-second delays of some assets after a scene change, a rock or bush in the distance.....nothing that I haven't seen in any other open-world game.
I also notice more LOD pop-in in FPS mode. I see that stuff in res mode too, but it's MUCH more subtle.
Never saw any of that weird color/tint issue when moving the camera around like in some of the vids I've seen. That definitely sucks for anyone getting that.
I only experienced 2 bugs/glitches during those 40 hours. Twice, I had the framerate bug where everything went to a slideshow, a reboot fixed that. And one instance where Aloy was finicky about climbing a ladder.
I'm sorry so many are having issues with the game, personally I'm loving every second of my playthrough, the two bugs I've encountered notwithstanding.
I figure I'm about 2/3 of the way through the story, but this weekend I plan to focus on a lot of the side content I was blocked out of due to not having the tools I needed as I have them now. Just got the metal flower tool, if that helps describe how far I am in the game.
Have to say that I actually like that hyper-sharpness the game has in res mode. Really made the graphics pop for me. Hope today's patch didn't cull that back too much. (patch notes say they did just that) I liked it. Unfortunately, it will be another day or two before I can get back into the game. I'm also gonna try out the HDR and motion blur recommendations I've seen here. I left the HDR stuff at default and motion blur at low. But if a few tweaks can make the game even better.....
I'd really like to flesh out my observations in more detail, but (sigh) I gotta go to work. {grumble, grumble...miserable damn factory job eating up all my time...grumble, grumble...never even got any time off from the pandemic...grumble, grouch}
I play in resolution mode and the TV is in game mode. When I tried the game in framerate mode, the drop in quality is very noticeable, but I didn't really see any extreme shimmering, just obvious lowering of texture detail.....like leaves that had multiple colors in res mode were more single color in FPS mode, as if the overall texture detail is lowered. Dense vegetation just looked....I don't know....kinda hazy/fuzzy looking in comparison. Stuff like that. It didn't take long for me to go back to res mode. Luckily, I'm very tolerant of lower framerates and 30fps doesn't bother me in the least.
As for asset pop-in, I've seen some, but it was mostly minor-minor stuff. Half-second delays of some assets after a scene change, a rock or bush in the distance.....nothing that I haven't seen in any other open-world game.
I also notice more LOD pop-in in FPS mode. I see that stuff in res mode too, but it's MUCH more subtle.
Never saw any of that weird color/tint issue when moving the camera around like in some of the vids I've seen. That definitely sucks for anyone getting that.
I only experienced 2 bugs/glitches during those 40 hours. Twice, I had the framerate bug where everything went to a slideshow, a reboot fixed that. And one instance where Aloy was finicky about climbing a ladder.
I'm sorry so many are having issues with the game, personally I'm loving every second of my playthrough, the two bugs I've encountered notwithstanding.
I figure I'm about 2/3 of the way through the story, but this weekend I plan to focus on a lot of the side content I was blocked out of due to not having the tools I needed as I have them now. Just got the metal flower tool, if that helps describe how far I am in the game.
Have to say that I actually like that hyper-sharpness the game has in res mode. Really made the graphics pop for me. Hope today's patch didn't cull that back too much. (patch notes say they did just that) I liked it. Unfortunately, it will be another day or two before I can get back into the game. I'm also gonna try out the HDR and motion blur recommendations I've seen here. I left the HDR stuff at default and motion blur at low. But if a few tweaks can make the game even better.....
I'd really like to flesh out my observations in more detail, but (sigh) I gotta go to work. {grumble, grumble...miserable damn factory job eating up all my time...grumble, grumble...never even got any time off from the pandemic...grumble, grouch}
dorkimoe
Member
Your tv must not be very good. Cuz my oled looks insane on performance. Have fun lagging thru the game
TonyK
Member
I have a LG Cx and I can confirm that... that's just not true. Game has a shitty IQ in performance mode, the worst of any 60fps game I played in PS5. However, I can understand you prefer the smoothness of 60fps over a better IQ at 30fps.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
"Some issues that the developer is aware of but has not addressed yet, it said, were the "high priority" graphical issues regarding shimmering, sharping, and screen saturation; some players experiencing infinite load screens to the Melee Puts; Aloy being blurry in Photo Mode; and an issue in Reach for the Stars where Aloy can't interact with a carcass, blocking progression.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Same tv. Same awful IQ in performance mode.
Gaelyon
Gold Member
Thanks i read it too quickly on my phone. At least they're working on it, shouldn't be too long.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
vincent is cool but like he said in his own video that he cant not see these issues because he has that trained eyes s it is what it is. but you are right.
He's assuming a lot though with the 'I can't believe they don't do QA' though - people on the outside often trivialize things, particularly lead-up to releases.
I personally had an experience where I was at a Sony press-event, explaining our PS4 Pro enhancements in great detail to the journalist, while simultaneously watching the game on screen and realizing (in horror) that said enhancements were not present in the retail build (something went wrong with the settings when we mastered it).
15 minutes later I was on the phone back to the office telling people how to fix it for day-1 patch (which we had like... 24hrs left to wrap-up at that point).
Sometimes things just slip - and with Covid and all remote-work, quality control likely suffered more than other aspects.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Sometimes yes, but I dont consider the performance mode issues a bug or something that simply slipped through. The HDR flickering issue they fixed today? Sure. The bizarre brightness issue when moving cameras Vincent pointed out? Sure.
But the Performance mode shimmering and IQ is not an accident. It's not a bug. It is simply what the game looks like when you are reconstructing from such a low resolution with that much foliage. Again, this is only 2.8 million pixels. It's frankly closer to 1080p (2.1 million) then 1440p (3.7 million), and likely lower since DRS seems to be in effect here. Is it really that surprising? And they shouldve known this. Anyone playing the game during playtesting and QA wouldve seen this. it's just a compromise they had to make.
GHG
Member
PSA:
I wasn't experiencing this issue before and I just booted up the game, noticed something was off visually and I was suddenly experiencing the problem outlined in the OP.
First thing I did was check my TV settings and I realised I wasn't in game mode that I have the PS5 input to automatically switch to, it was in the TV's default "HDR AI" mode. I then switched it over to game mode and the problem disappeared. Video (hopefully it shows up correctly in this):
So to people experiencing this problem - check and double check your TV settings. Turn off everything and anything related to image processing then try again.
The HDR AI setting on my TV (Philips 65OLED805) has a ton of image processing, for example it has some AI stuff that detects various scene types and objects and then adjusts the brightness and tone mapping on the fly. That all works incredibly for movies/tv/sports but obviously for games where things are a lot more fast paced it can't keep up. I don't know why the combination of that TV setting along with this game is causing such bad issues like this (that mode on my TV has caused some weird visual issues if its on while gaming but nothing on this scale) but there is definitely a link between the TV settings and the HDR bug that people are experiencing.
I wasn't experiencing this issue before and I just booted up the game, noticed something was off visually and I was suddenly experiencing the problem outlined in the OP.
First thing I did was check my TV settings and I realised I wasn't in game mode that I have the PS5 input to automatically switch to, it was in the TV's default "HDR AI" mode. I then switched it over to game mode and the problem disappeared. Video (hopefully it shows up correctly in this):
So to people experiencing this problem - check and double check your TV settings. Turn off everything and anything related to image processing then try again.
The HDR AI setting on my TV (Philips 65OLED805) has a ton of image processing, for example it has some AI stuff that detects various scene types and objects and then adjusts the brightness and tone mapping on the fly. That all works incredibly for movies/tv/sports but obviously for games where things are a lot more fast paced it can't keep up. I don't know why the combination of that TV setting along with this game is causing such bad issues like this (that mode on my TV has caused some weird visual issues if its on while gaming but nothing on this scale) but there is definitely a link between the TV settings and the HDR bug that people are experiencing.
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I've not seen that yet so can't really tell - but I still wonder. Tech channels (DF mostly, but I think NXGamer too) claimed that AA in this game only uses 1-frame of temporal history, but both of their footage features glaringly obvious multi-frame long ghosting in some parts (sometimes in the very shots where they claim temporal component is minimal).
Which makes me wonder if there's an issue in AA itself(history resampling working inconsistently across the image - something that is plausible and could lead to worse temporal stability as well) - or there's something else creating the ghosting and tech-channels have become blind to it from playing all those DLSS games on PC... /sarcasm - but maybe not really.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Explains probably why some experience and some don't. I have not experienced it, TV is in Game Mode with everything off on my Sony set.
There might be something with their HDR in the game kicking it into other modes on some sets, or the ALLM on the PS5 not handshaking properly with select sets.
MDSLKTR
Member
Lgcx owner: nope
AnotherOne
Member
Can also confirm as a no fix, LGCX
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
sncvsrtoip
Member
there is tweak for lg cx that makes perf mode looks like 4k, I can reaveal it if this post get 100k likes
GHG
Member
Anything you're seeing in the game mode is my camera adjusting it's exposure after the image has moved.
Yep and a lot of people don't realise game mode on most TV's still comes with a lot of image processing crap on by default, you always need to go in and manually set everything up properly.
PaintTinJr
Member
I had a similar issue with Demon's Souls on my Sony set last week when deciding on whether to play in performance or quality mode.
When I tried quality mode I thought the mode was flat out broken, really blurry final image washed by a volumetric lighting fx that seemed unstable , when I went to adjust my settings, somehow after switching the game to that mode, the TV had switched out of game mode and was running in HDR cinema pro mode.
Looking at your video the first part seems like the HDR mode is temporarily disengaging with the fast turning and then re-engaging after the scene content stabilizes. So you could be correct that the cause is actually TV's wrongly detecting the content and switching to the wrong mode and people don't realise they aren't in game-mode.
PaintTinJr
Member
Yeah, you are absolutely correct, I had to watch his video again and you he does say the problem was worse in 30fps, not 60fps - even though the other pixel shimmering problem was visible in the 60fps mode.
I then went and looked at DF John's tech video of HFW and it seems like the game uses a localised user light source that has no corresponding scene light - he mentioned that does the same job as the light carried by the player in DeS - and John also mentions a global reflection system that updates gradually being used, which IIRC he said was set too bright when they played the preview originally, so it could be a problem with that having too slow an update in 30fps, and is probably disabled in 60fps mode for being too taxing.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Sega Orphan
Banned
Normally Sony's top studios quality control is top shelf.