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[Riky]

I'm pretty sure it's not, if this footage is anything to go by:

They clarified it in a Forza monthly, probably why they say that's an unfinished build.
Although I can't see it on Series S myself but who knows.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

They clarified it in a Forza monthly, probably why they say that's an unfinished build.
Although I can't see it on Series S myself but who knows.

Show me the clip. The 'on track' marketing bullshit is super sleazy, I hate that. Yes, RT is on track. When you enter pit stop. It refreshes on what feels like 30 or less FPS but it's there. But during racing / GAMEPLAY there's 0 evidence of RT effects. Same mirror like reflection on the hood camera that we got for generations now. Mirror's don't function like actual mirrors. Other cars don't reflect themself in the body work. Etc. etc. It's all looks exactly like in the last Forza.

 

[Negotiator101]

I'm pretty sure it's not, if this footage is anything to go by:

Not sure what you're seeing here to dispute what the developer is saying? It seems illogical to talk about raytracing on track if its only in replays just like GT7. They're using it as a selling point given how many times they've mentioned it, I'd be very surprised if its not there in gameplay.

 

[Riky]

Show me the clip. The 'on track' marketing bullshit is super sleazy, I hate that. Yes, RT is on track. When you enter pit stop. It refreshes on what feels like 30 or less FPS but it's there. But during racing / GAMEPLAY there's 0 evidence of RT effects. Same mirror like reflection on the hood camera that we got for generations now. Mirror's don't function like actual mirrors. Other cars don't reflect themself in the body work. Etc. etc. It's all looks exactly like in the last Forza.

You can argue with the director if you want,

"
Forza Motorsport’s creative director has emphasised that the ray-tracing support announced last weekend will be present “when you are playing the game”.

In a possible dig at rival title Gran Turismo 7 – which only features the lighting effect in replays – Forza creative director Chris Esaki said on Thursday that developer Turn 10 wasn’t trying to “mislead” or be “funny with words”.

“Ray tracing is here. It’s on track and most importantly, it’s real-time gameplay,” he said during a live stream. “I really want to make that clear: when we say ‘on track’, it doesn’t mean it’s only in replays or it’s only in Photo Mode on track and we’re just being funny with words.


“We’re not trying to mislead you here. When you’re racing and when you are playing the game, ray tracing is on. We want to be really clear about that."

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why is it so hard for them to say, "during gameplay" in their marketing?

What is this ambiguous "on track" shit causing all of this confusion? They clearly recognize it comes off as misleading or confusing in the post above, so stop using it and use industry normal talk.

 

[Negotiator101]

Why is it so hard for them to say, "during gameplay?"

What is this ambiguous "on track" shit causing all of this confusion?

Its above your post

 

[MidGenRefresh]

You can argue with the director if you want,

"
Forza Motorsport’s creative director has emphasised that the ray-tracing support announced last weekend will be present “when you are playing the game”.

In a possible dig at rival title Gran Turismo 7 – which only features the lighting effect in replays – Forza creative director Chris Esaki said on Thursday that developer Turn 10 wasn’t trying to “mislead” or be “funny with words”.

“Ray tracing is here. It’s on track and most importantly, it’s real-time gameplay,” he said during a live stream. “I really want to make that clear: when we say ‘on track’, it doesn’t mean it’s only in replays or it’s only in Photo Mode on track and we’re just being funny with words.


“We’re not trying to mislead you here. When you’re racing and when you are playing the game, ray tracing is on. We want to be really clear about that."

Who you're going to believe? Sleazy Microsoft rep or your own 2 eyes? I know my answer. There's 0 evidence on RT when you're actually driving and controlling your car. Case closed. Until proven otherwise.

 

[Negotiator101]

Who you're going to believe? Sleazy Microsoft rep or your own 2 eyes? I know my answer. There's 0 evidence on RT when you're actually driving and controlling your car. Case closed. Until proved otherwise.

No mate, that's not a finished build and that footage is not conclusive either way.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Its above your post

Read my edit. They clearly admit it comes off as "funny with words" and "confusing."

MS are experts when it comes to that form of PR. Just be fucking normal.

 

[Negotiator101]

Read my edit. They clearly admit it comes off as "funny with words" and "confusing."

MS are experts when it comes to that form of PR. Just be fucking normal.

It's as clear as day in the last quote Ricky gave, try harder my friend

 

[Riky]

Who you're going to believe? Sleazy Microsoft rep or your own 2 eyes? I know my answer. There's 0 evidence on RT when you're actually driving and controlling your car. Case closed. Until proven otherwise.

Sleazy rep? It's the guy making the game.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's as clear as day in the last quote Ricky gave, try harder my friend

Comprehension must be hard, innit.

They would not mention "not trying to be funny with words" or "not trying to confuse" if that wasn't the feedback they were getting. So stop using "on track" and be normal like the rest of the industry.

99% of the gaming world won't see that interview. They will see your dumb choice of words where everyone else says "gameplay."

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Sleazy rep? It's the guy making the game.

They're playing you like children. No wonder they're using this kind of marketing, clearly it works.

I want to be proven wrong. Game is coming out in few shorts months. They just showed us the first real gameplay and there's 0 evidence of RT when you're driving your car around with full grid of AI opponents.

Oops.

I'll be playing this on PC so I shouldn't be worried so much.

 

[GHG]

Who you're going to believe? Sleazy Microsoft rep or your own 2 eyes? I know my answer. There's 0 evidence on RT when you're actually driving and controlling your car. Case closed. Until proved otherwise.

You're talking to guys who will take Microsoft's word that it's raining outside without even bothering to check for themselves and look outside the window.

It's as clear as day in the last quote Ricky gave, try harder my friend

"Try harder"?

The Series X gameplay they showed yesterday doesn't have it present:




The only thing that's confirmed for now is that it will be present during gameplay in the PC version along with RTGI. Is that the version you'll be playing?

 

[Negotiator101]

Comprehension must be hard, innit.

They would not mention "not trying to be funny with words" or "not trying to confuse" if that wasn't the feedback they were getting. So stop using "on track" and be normal like the rest of the industry.

99% of the gaming world won't see that interview. They will see your dumb choice of words where everyone else says "gameplay."

Listen if the raytracing on Series X is not present while playing I'm gonna pissed off after the about of times they've mentioned it. I understand where you're coming from but that direct quote Ricky posted clears it up completely. So it better be in there come October.

 

[Negotiator101]

You're talking to guys who will take Microsoft's word that it's raining outside without even bothering to check for themselves and look outside the window.



"Try harder"?

The Series X gameplay they showed yesterday doesn't have it present:




The only thing that's confirmed for now is that it will be present during gameplay in the PC version along with RTGI. Is that the version you'll be playing?

Thats not true only the PC version has RTGI, the consoles have or are supposed to have reflections while playing and as you know this is not the final build.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You're talking to guys who will take Microsoft's word that it's raining outside without even bothering to check for themselves and look outside the window.



"Try harder"?

The Series X gameplay they showed yesterday doesn't have it present:




The only thing that's confirmed for now is that it will be present during gameplay in the PC version along with RTGI. Is that the version you'll be playing?

I hope there is a performance mode for console gamers that has it turned off. Replays/prerace/pit stops switching to 30fps in a 60fps game is one of my biggest pet peeves and sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Listen if the raytracing on Series X is not present while playing I'm gonna pissed off after the about of times they've mentioned it. I understand where you're coming from but that direct quote Ricky posted clears it up completely. So it better be in there come October.

Don't worry... it'll be there... on track!

 

[Negotiator101]

Don't worry... it'll be there... on track!

That would make it no different to GT7 so why bother banging on about all the time like it's something special?

 

[Riky]

They're playing you like children. No wonder they're using this kind of marketing, clearly it works.

I want to be proven wrong. Game is coming out in few shorts months. They just showed us the first real gameplay and there's 0 evidence of RT when you're driving your car around with full grid of AI opponents.

Oops.

I'll be playing this on PC so I shouldn't be worried so much.

It says unfinished build, I'm just stating what the guy making the game is saying. We'll see when the game comes out, I'm sure Turn 10 will get called out if they are lying. If they're not I hope you can admit you were wrong.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

That would make it no different to GT7 so why bother banging on about all the time like it's something special?

Because they love practice sleazy PR. Because it works.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That would make it no different to GT7 so why bother banging on about all the time like it's something special?

I mean, the replays are already dropping to 30 with it on, just like GT7, so I'll be curious to see how it's handled "on track."

Still of the opinion that it's a waste of resources during actual racing gameplay since you almost never focus on it (or you'll crash) in these types of games. It's something that's always more noticed in replays and photo modes for obvious reasons.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

It says unfinished build, I'm just stating what the guy making the game is saying. We'll see when the game comes out, I'm sure Turn 10 will get called out if they are lying. If they're not I hope you can admit you were wrong.

The problem is: they never lied. They're just 'smart' with the words they're choosing. It's there during gameplay because technically when you're in pit stop and adjusting settings, it's gameplay. It's there on track because transitions from start of the race to actual race are happening on track.

Listen, I want to be wrong. But ask yourself. Why they don't just come out and say, 'hey we have full RT when you're behind the wheel and racing against full grid of AI opponents!'. They know what they're doing. Sleazy.

 

[Negotiator101]

Because they love practice sleazy PR. Because it works.

I hope you're wrong no offence but I'm hoping it's while playing on the consoles not just PC. Presumably this footage is an older build and switching Raytraced reflections on and off is pretty easy.

 

[GHG]

Thats not true only the PC version has RTGI, the consoles have or are supposed to have reflections while playing and as you know this is not the final build.

No, the PC version will have the full suite of ray tracing features including RTGI present during gameplay provided you have the capable hardware.

The status of RT during gameplay on consoles right now - unknown.

That would make it no different to GT7 so why bother banging on about all the time like it's something special?

Because this is a company who have had no qualms in using the PC version of their games for marketing prior to release. Remember when all they showed of Redfall was 4k 60fps footage before they dropped the 30fps bomb just a couple of weeks before it released? What was that prior footage running on?

Personally I'm fine with it and it doesn't make a difference to me since the PC versions are what I'll play, but I'm not sure where all this confidence is coming from with people who will be playing the console versions. If I were you I'd be asking them what's going on instead of taking their word for it and doing damage control, but that's just me.

 

[Riky]

The problem is: they never lied. They're just 'smart' with the words they're choosing. It's there during gameplay because technically when you're in pit stop and adjusting settings, it's gameplay. It's there on track because transitions from start of the race to actual race are happening on track.

Listen, I want to be wrong. But ask yourself. Why they don't just come out and say, 'hey we have full RT when you're behind the wheel and racing against full grid of AI opponents!'. They know what they're doing. Sleazy.

"We’re not trying to mislead you here. When you’re racing and when you are playing the game, ray tracing is on. We want to be really clear about that."

It says it's on "when you're racing" that's pretty definitive. You're the one being sleazy with "full RT" the Series X version is supposed to have ray traced reflections, that's all they promised.

 

[Negotiator101]

I mean, the replays are already dropping to 30 with it on, just like GT7, so I'll be curious to see how it's handled "on track."

Still of the opinion that it's a waste of resources during actual racing gameplay since you almost never focus on it (or you'll crash) in these types of games. It's something that's always more noticed, obviously, in replays and photo modes.

Yeah, in that case I can't understand why it was such a marketing tag "on track". Maybe they are finding it difficult to get the performance locked at 60 with it enabled as T10 pride themselves on a locked framerate, we'll see.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

"We’re not trying to mislead you here. When you’re racing and when you are playing the game, ray tracing is on. We want to be really clear about that."

It says it's on "when you're racing" that's pretty definitive. You're the one being sleazy with "full RT" the Series X version is supposed to have ray traced reflections, that's all they promised.

It's not there when they're racing in their most recent gameplay reveal. I used full RT loosely. They think they're smart with words but they're not.

It's funny that you believe their words more than your own two eyes. Extremely funny.

 

[DeepEnigma]

"We’re not trying to mislead you here."

This quote right here shows the problem is with their messaging and chosen words up until this point. They are literally admitting that they have people confused.

So stop blaming fellow gamers when they themselves admit people are feeling misled by their PR.

 

[Riky]

It's not there when they're racing in their most recent gameplay reveal. I used full RT loosely. They think they're smart with words but they're not.

It's funny that you believe their words more than your own two eyes. Extremely funny.

It's funny that I believe it's not finished build when it says it isn't? I'm not saying it's there in that video I'm saying Turn 10 are saying it will be there in the final game, big difference.

 

[Bernkastel]

Why is it so hard for them to say, "during gameplay" in their marketing?

What is this ambiguous "on track" shit causing all of this confusion? They clearly recognize it comes off as misleading or confusing in the post above, so stop using it and use industry normal talk.

https://support.forzamotorsport.net/hc/en-us/articles/17466893801619-Forza-Motorsport-June-2023-Update

Q: Does Forza Motorsport feature ray tracing?
A: Forza Motorsport features real time ray tracing on track. We will share additional details about ray tracing options and platform availability closer to launch.

Q: How does ray tracing work in Forza Motorsport?
A: Ray tracing bounces rays into the scene and does thousands of calculations to give us true reflections. Real-time calculations of this magnitude weren’t possible on previous generations.

Q: How does Forza Motorsport perform on Xbox Series X|S?
A: Forza Motorsport runs at 4K 60 FPS on Xbox Series X; and at 1080p 60 FPS on Xbox Series S.

What do you think "real time" is?
An older version of the FAQ

Forza Motorsport Announcement

The new Forza Motorsport, currently in early development, is a reimagining of the series. We are taking what has made Forza Motorsport great over the past 15 years and pairing it with new game conc...

web.archive.org

With the new Forza Motorsport, ray tracing is coming to ForzaTech, you will see a dynamic world in 4K, 60fps, that is connected and dynamic – from surfaces of cars reflecting off each other, to brilliant red paint bouncing off intensely detailed track surfaces, and the interplay of light and shadow throughout the world.

 

[DeepEnigma]

https://support.forzamotorsport.net/hc/en-us/articles/17466893801619-Forza-Motorsport-June-2023-Update

What do you think "real time" is?
An older version of the support page

Forza Motorsport Announcement

The new Forza Motorsport, currently in early development, is a reimagining of the series. We are taking what has made Forza Motorsport great over the past 15 years and pairing it with new game conc...

web.archive.org

Why don't you keep up with the conversation. It has evolved since then, stan.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

It's funny that I believe it's not finished build when it says it isn't? I'm not saying it's there in that video I'm saying Turn 10 are saying it will be there in the final game, big difference.

Well, if they used sleazy PR talk in the past and they themself admitted they confused players with their bullshit, then I think it would be nice if during their big gameplay reveal they'd say something like 'hey, RT during racing is not ON yet but it will be there for the final release'. But they didn't. You're funny indeed, I like you. Your childish like trust is sweet.

 

[GHG]

https://support.forzamotorsport.net/hc/en-us/articles/17466893801619-Forza-Motorsport-June-2023-Update

What do you think "real time" is?
An older version of the FAQ

Forza Motorsport Announcement

The new Forza Motorsport, currently in early development, is a reimagining of the series. We are taking what has made Forza Motorsport great over the past 15 years and pairing it with new game conc...

web.archive.org

Thank you for posting this, it's right there:

Q: Does Forza Motorsport feature ray tracing?
A: Forza Motorsport features real time ray tracing on track. We will share additional details about ray tracing options and platform availability closer to launch.

Let's see how close to launch they leave it to tell people what's really going on.

Why don't you keep up with the conversation. It has evolved since then, stan.

The PR bot isn't even self aware to realise they are not helping their own argument considering what's actually being discussed.

 

[Riky]

Well, if they used sleazy PR talk in the past and they themself admitted they confused players with their bullshit, then I think it would be nice if during their big gameplay reveal they'd say something like 'hey, RT during racing is not ON yet but it will be there for the final release'. But they didn't. You're funny indeed, I like you. Your childish like trust is sweet.

You're calling the developer a liar, when the final game is released we'll know and we can come back and discuss it then, I'll be the first to call them out if they've misled people.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Thank you for posting this, it's right there:



Let's see how close to launch they leave it to tell people what's really going on.



The PR bot isn't even self aware to realise they are not helping their own argument considering what's actually being discussed.

No, no, no it's the consumers and gamers fault. They totally just didn't admit that they realize people are feeling misled and confused by their unorthodox choice of words in their PR. Let's just gloss over that admittance, mighty brand is never wrong even when they admit it. Beep, boop!

 

[MidGenRefresh]

You're calling the developer a liar, when the final game is released we'll know and we can come back and discuss it then, I'll be the first to call them out if they've misled people.

I literally said that they never lied a few posts back. You seriously have problems with reading comprehension.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'll be the first to call them out if they've misled people.

 

[Negotiator101]

What's going on in this gif?

 

[GHG]

Don't worry, his way of "calling them out" is by logging out and going AWOL for 2 months.

It's akin to a workers protest.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What's going on in this gif?

IDK, but it cracks me the hell up each time I see it.

 

[Negotiator101]

IDK, but it cracks me the hell up each time I see it.

Is that Puff Daddy or P Diddy?

 

[Dunnas]

Show me the clip. The 'on track' marketing bullshit is super sleazy, I hate that. Yes, RT is on track. When you enter pit stop. It refreshes on what feels like 30 or less FPS but it's there. But during racing / GAMEPLAY there's 0 evidence of RT effects. Same mirror like reflection on the hood camera that we got for generations now. Mirror's don't function like actual mirrors. Other cars don't reflect themself in the body work. Etc. etc. It's all looks exactly like in the last Forza.

Here you go.

"Ray tracing's here. It's on-track, and most importantly, it's real-time gameplay. I really want to make that clear. When we say on-track, we don't mean it's only in replays or Photo Mode on-track and [we're] being funny with words - we're not trying to mislead you here. When you are racing, when you are playing the game, ray tracing is on."

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Here you go.

"Ray tracing's here. It's on-track, and most importantly, it's real-time gameplay. I really want to make that clear. When we say on-track, we don't mean it's only in replays or Photo Mode on-track and [we're] being funny with words - we're not trying to mislead you here. When you are racing, when you are playing the game, ray tracing is on."

Yes, it's there when you're racing against AI*

* on PC.

Show me RT during racing in yesterday's gameplay reveal.

 

[Riky]

I literally said that they never lied a few posts back. You seriously have problems with reading comprehension.

The developer is saying RT is on "while you're racing" that's not ambiguous in any way.
You're saying that won't be the case, or are you saying RT will be on "while you're racing" in the final game?

 

[Riky]

Yes, it's there when you're racing against AI*

* on PC.

Show me RT during racing in yesterday's gameplay reveal.

That's not the final build as it says.

 

[Dunnas]

Yes, it's there when you're racing against AI*

* on PC.

Show me RT during racing in yesterday's gameplay reveal.

How about waiting until the game comes out and then throw your hissy fit if it isn't in the final game.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

The developer is saying RT is on "while you're racing" that's not ambiguous in any way.
You're saying that won't be the case, or are you saying RT will be on "while you're racing" in the final game?

It's ambiguous because he never specified the platform. Are you seriously serious?

That's not the final build as it says.

Ah, so the clip where he says that RT is there 'when you're racing' from 11 months is some kind of proof but when gameplay of the most recent build that they were willing to show running on Series console has exactly 0 RT during racing that's just work in progress. Got ya.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That's not the final build as it says.

Amazing your selectivity.

It looked pretty much as I expected, we've already had two PS5 versions of Spiderman so I'm not shocked it looks similar.
It's the massive downgrade from the trailer that people are noticing.

Both not final builds. Both massive downgrades from the initial trailers. One gets an excuse, the other "you expected" with some salt rubbed in the wound for good measure.

Even though an Insomniac dev said there is no downgrade from the trailer, they have yet to show off nighttime in the game that the trailer used, and that it obviously isn't the final build.

 

[Riky]

It's ambiguous because he never specified the platform. Are you seriously serious?



Ah, so the clip where he says that RT is there 'when you're racing' from 11 months is some kind of proof but when gameplay of the most recent build that they were willing to show running on Series console has exactly 0 RT during racing that's just work in progress. Got ya.

Does it say it's work in progress?