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Demon’s Souls’ devs considered, and ultimately left out, an easy mode

royox

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Adventurer 2 is all the peasants asking for an "Easy Mode".


 

daninthemix

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Actually add Easy Mode as paid DLC, and then also give a special trophy of shame to anyone who uses it. That should keep everyone happy.

You're welcome. That'll be ten pounds, please.
 

IDKFA

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Good. Glad they left it out.

I'm not being some elite and think people should just 'get gud', but adding an easy mode takes away the whole point of the game. It's designed to be hard so the player learns and grows. Adding an easy mode takes away its main design aspect.
 
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royox

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I guess I won't get into souls game with that remake either then, bye.

You wouldn't even if it had an "easy mode".
BTW the game has an easy mode, it's called Mage Build. You literally one shot 90% of the enemies and cheese most of the bosses (some of them cannot even touch you from distance).
 

Memorabilia

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I think this was the right choice to preserve the Souls pedigree. This game is easily the best reason to jump in early with a PS5 and I'm glad it's not watered down.
 

Memorabilia

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You wouldn't even if it had an "easy mode".
BTW the game has an easy mode, it's called Mage Build. You literally one shot 90% of the enemies and cheese most of the bosses (some of them cannot even touch you from distance).

As someone who barely scratched the surface of the OG PS3 game this makes me want to do a full run thru it as a "mage" before tackling the remake, as a sort of warmup...🤔
 

Knightime_X

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It's not that I can't beat these games as is but I like to play at a chill level from time to time then challenge myself later on.
But since this game doesn't allow you to chill I kept $70 in my wallet and just watched a streamer play.
Pretty sure there's tens of thousands of potential $70 purchases that went *p00f* as well.

I wonder if the decision was really worth it.
I'm not even mad either.
 

royox

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I'd appreciate an easy mode just so I could explore, because I love the atmosphere of the games. Sadly I'm not good enough to play them.

90% of what makes the atmosphere of the games good is how opressive it feels and the risk/reward ratio.

Most of the people that say that they would enjoy a Souls game if it had an easy mode don't even know what they are saying.
 
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sublimit

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Wise decision.

If you want an easy mode play as a Royal and summon people to help you.
 
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TheDreadLord

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I don't get, how can the option to play in a sort of easy mode bad? There are people that would benefit from that, for instance, gaming journalists.
 
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LarknThe4th

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I love the Souls games, and part of that is the challenge

But honestly if they added an easy mode then it would sell more and then us, the people who will play it right, would get more bespoke interesting games like this

An easy mode doesn't stop you from playing it on the correct difficulty setting, unless some in here feel they wouldn't have the will power to resist the evil easy mode if they keep getting owned that is
 

royox

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I don't get, how can the option to play in a sort of easy mode bad? There are people that would benefit from that, for instance, gaming journalists.

Because it's a core feature for the saga that the games have only 1 difficulty setting and everything is balanced around that dificulty. "Gitting good" it's the core mechanic of those games.

And also...who the fuck cares about gaming journalists?


 

DelireMan7

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I love the Souls games, and part of that is the challenge

But honestly if they added an easy mode then it would sell more and then us, the people who will play it right, would get more bespoke interesting games like this

An easy mode doesn't stop you from playing it on the correct difficulty setting, unless some in here feel they wouldn't have the will power to resist the evil easy mode if they keep getting owned that is
More or less my thinking.

I love Soulsborne above every other games and difficulty has little to do with that.

I really don't care about easy mode being in or not.
Reducing the Soulsborne do their difficulty only is a nonsense to me.

If I had to choose I would be more in favor of not including it because it was the original choice of the creator (options are nice but not every game has to be for everyone). But it wouldn't impact my experience if it was included so...
 
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Bogey

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Good decision.

Many, if not most players will always chose the path of least resistance, even if that path is less enjoyable.
It's a great call to stick to their vision and just say "no, that challenge is part of the core appeal of this game. We think it ends up being more fun for the majority of players, and we're not going to let them chicken out of that".

For comparison, think of an MMORPG where players have the "option" to go raiding for weeks and weeks to acquire the strongest gear in game. Or just visit some NPC who gives it to them for free immediately. Clearly, it's just an option right, players totally have to option to still work for their gear here. Is it a good idea though? How many players will actually go down the hard route?
 
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Grinchy

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a cave outside of Whoville.
I think anyone who has been playing Souls games for a while will breeze through a lot of this game.

The reason it's known as being so brutally hard is because it was the first one and no one was expecting this shit in 2008. I think the beginning of Bloodborne is harder than what you face in the first levels of these worlds.
 

Saruhashi

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Are these games really "brutally difficult" though?

This conversation goes around and around but I never really understand what aspect of the games is difficult?

It seems more like they ask you to play in a specific way and because this differs from a lot of other games people maybe don't "get" it but also refuse to learn.

If you think about HOW people will play Doom or Devil May Cry or titles like Uncharted, God of War, Assassins Creed. It's very aggressive, attack focused, sort of power fantasy combat.

When you play this kind of game though its like you need to think about how many times you can swing the weapon and when you can swing it and when you need to block or dodge.

The move set is not overly complicated and the button inputs are not particularly tricky. It's more about learning how the game is played.

Not sure what an easy mode would look like. You can increase your health, stamina and damage as you play the game.

The main gripe is more focused around on time. People who think that the combat and any level grinding is a bit of a time waster just want to get the game over and done with as soon as possible so they can use the photo mode to post on social media and then get on with clearing their backlog.

I think for some there is a negative reaction to seeing the "You Died" screen. Like they don't see it as an opportunity to get better but rather see it as the game kind of mocking them.

Glad to see the developers sticking to their guns. If games are indeed art then we need to see creators unapologetically sticking to their ideas and philosophies. If people don't like it then that's OK. It's OK to not like art.
 
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oagboghi2

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I love the Souls games, and part of that is the challenge

But honestly if they added an easy mode then it would sell more and then us, the people who will play it right, would get more bespoke interesting games like this

An easy mode doesn't stop you from playing it on the correct difficulty setting, unless some in here feel they wouldn't have the will power to resist the evil easy mode if they keep getting owned that is
It would not sell more. People keep saying that, but where is the proof?

We've seen soul-esque like games with easy modes and they don't explode in sales.
 

LarknThe4th

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It would not sell more. People keep saying that, but where is the proof?

We've seen soul-esque like games with easy modes and they don't explode in sales.
Easy games certainly have the potential to sell better than hard games, lower barrier of entry

Although you are ignoring the main thrust of my argument, what harm would it do to include an easy mode, it doesn't somehow stain the regular, developer intended, mode that would be a silly assertion
 

Spukc

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Why is the souls community so fucking toxic xD

"i like options" = "i want to force the devs to crunch so much that on top of remaking this game they now have to develop an entirely separate mode just to appease me and if you don't agree with this entitled as fuck demand then you are a meanie"

regen health
disable trophies.

i want to force the devs to crunch :pie_roffles: 🦆 🍷 Crunch seems to be the magic word these days.

who
gives
a
fuck?


options are cool
 
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Saruhashi

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It would not sell more. People keep saying that, but where is the proof?

We've seen soul-esque like games with easy modes and they don't explode in sales.

I thought the thing that got those games their fame in the first place was the perception of difficulty.

I reckon if they switched to offering difficulty options in the future they would lose that original fan base as smaller games would come in and be considered "more like Souls games before they sold out".
 

Saruhashi

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Easy games certainly have the potential to sell better than hard games, lower barrier of entry

Although you are ignoring the main thrust of my argument, what harm would it do to include an easy mode, it doesn't somehow stain the regular, developer intended, mode that would be a silly assertion

I think framing it as "harm" doesn't really help.

Would anyone be legitimately hurt if they had an easy mode. Nah.

If a developer wants to build a certain reputation or even if they just want to be know for doing a specific thing in the medium then actively working against that won't exactly help.

I personally would be sad if they went down that route because I already know that I would just drift away from their games and towards other devs who are doing what I am interested in.

This already happened with Assassins Creed for me. They completely changed their approach to what they games fundamentally are and I am just not into the new stuff so that's then end of that. I especially despise that they offer a 10 buck "time saver" option. Like they even admit themselves that the game is just there to be completed ASAP and then forgotten.

Nobody gets hurt though. It's a bit less dramatic than all that. I'd lose a bit of respect for them but I'd be hopeful theyve inspired other devs to make the games that will replace them, that's all.
 

Miles708

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Options are a bad thing.

Disclaimer: I suck at games and I've abandoned Bloorborne for my mental sanity.

That said:

The dirty secret in the Souls franchise is that, if stripped off of the challenge, these games are a slog.
The entire design relies on you going slow, because the game becomes uninteresting and trivial otherwise.

There's no story, the enviroments are... well they are cool but, you have to be there for hours, and frankly the 80% of the gameplay loop is "you've found an enemy? Nice, now circle around him for minutes and minutes and minutes".
And I loved Dark Souls 1 and 2, mind you.

It's just that, the difficulty is the pillar of all other design choices: the entire enviroment, the gameplay and story is based around you being constantly scared of dying, and going slow as a consequence.
Why do you think people praise the level design? Because they have to put attention to it or they die.

And Easy mode destroys the game not because of the unbearable "git-gud" bullshit (I'm too old and I suck at these games anyway), but because the design of the game becomes uninteresting and worthless with that.
 
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iconmaster

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But since this game doesn't allow you to chill I kept $70 in my wallet and just watched a streamer play.
Pretty sure there's tens of thousands of potential $70 purchases that went *p00f* as well.

I wonder if the decision was really worth it.

We’ll find out in a month or two; but I suspect the game will do just fine.

The dirty secret in the Souls franchise is that, if stripped off of the challenge, these games are a slog.
The entire design relies on you going slow, because the game becomes uninteresting and trivial otherwise.

Easy Souls player two minutes after finishing Easy Souls: “Well that was pointless. Why do people like these games so much?”
 
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QuantumZebra

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Asking for Souls easymode is like going to a nice restaurant and asking the chef to put ketchup on your meal.

The problem is with you.

Damn. Never thought of it like that. I like it.

Why should anybody care about gaming journalists?

After seeing that Xbot (IGN) give Alien: Isolation a 5.9/10 due to difficulty...

Nobody ever should.
 
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LarknThe4th

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I think framing it as "harm" doesn't really help.

Would anyone be legitimately hurt if they had an easy mode. Nah.

If a developer wants to build a certain reputation or even if they just want to be know for doing a specific thing in the medium then actively working against that won't exactly help.

I personally would be sad if they went down that route because I already know that I would just drift away from their games and towards other devs who are doing what I am interested in.

This already happened with Assassins Creed for me. They completely changed their approach to what they games fundamentally are and I am just not into the new stuff so that's then end of that. I especially despise that they offer a 10 buck "time saver" option. Like they even admit themselves that the game is just there to be completed ASAP and then forgotten.

Nobody gets hurt though. It's a bit less dramatic than all that. I'd lose a bit of respect for them but I'd be hopeful theyve inspired other devs to make the games that will replace them, that's all.
That seems ridiculous, MGS 3, Residnet evil 4, Halo, Doom all these games have easy modes an all of them are not affected in any way by including one, they are some of the most important and best videogames ever

You would drift away from their games because they included an easy mode and lost their cringy "git gud" Image are you sure you like Souls games that much or are you just attracted to the Hardcore image??
 

mr.dilya

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I've always hated these losers game, people who never achieve stuff in their life and think a "challenging" game is an actual accomplishment.

I guess I won't get into souls game with that remake either then, bye.

Lol you mad cause you trash.
 
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People are doing themselves a disservice by asking for an easy mode in a Souls game. The games generally aren't that difficult - they just require you to be more methodical in your approach, situationally aware and have at least some sense of self-preservation. Don't treat it like an action game and be open to learning from your mistakes, and you should be fine.
 

Alebrije

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Good, find the game little easier than the PS3 version but must be thanks to stable framerates , performance mode + classic filter is the best option.

The game does not need easy option.
 

AgentP

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I only wish they made it easy to summon others. Having to be human is a pain.
 

Tranquil

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Disclaimer: I suck at games and I've abandoned Bloorborne for my mental sanity.

That said:

The dirty secret in the Souls franchise is that, if stripped off of the challenge, these games are a slog.
The entire design relies on you going slow, because the game becomes uninteresting and trivial otherwise.

There's no story, the enviroments are... well they are cool but, you have to be there for hours, and frankly the 80% of the gameplay loop is "you've found an enemy? Nice, now circle around him for minutes and minutes and minutes".
And I loved Dark Souls 1 and 2, mind you.

It's just that, the difficulty is the pillar of all other design choices: the entire enviroment, the gameplay and story is based around you being constantly scared of dying, and going slow as a consequence.
Why do you think people praise the level design? Because they have to put attention to it or they die.

And Easy mode destroys the game not because of the unbearable "git-gud" bullshit (I'm too old and I suck at these games anyway), but because the design of the game becomes uninteresting and worthless with that.

Great explanation
 
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Saruhashi

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That seems ridiculous, MGS 3, Residnet evil 4, Halo, Doom all these games have easy modes an all of them are not affected in any way by including one, they are some of the most important and best videogames ever

You would drift away from their games because they included an easy mode and lost their cringy "git gud" Image are you sure you like Souls games that much or are you just attracted to the Hardcore image??

I don't really care about the "image" because it's not like I'm strutting into work bragging about how I completed Dark Souls.
Everyone would be like "what the fuck is Dark Souls?"

It's curious that so many people take this line of argument though.
"Oh it's cringy." "Oh the community is just so toxic." "Oh these losers think beating a game is worth anything LOL."

Almost as if the problem isn't actually with the games difficulty at all and is more of a pettiness against people who like those games.

All the games you listed can do what they want. It's irrelevant.

I would drift away because honestly what I'd see is a developer that I respect is conceding to a bunch of whiners online.

They made the game the way they wanted to make it.
At first nobody really seemed to notice but then these games became a kind of cult classic.
Almost like their own genre to be honest.

Then their popularity went mainstream and suddenly after all this time people are moaning about difficulty.

"Games are art."

ALSO

"The art is too challenging for me. Change it!"
 

Paulxo87

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Anyone else cheese the fuck out of 1-1 with the red knight? Just lead him all the way back to the staircase of doom and sit on the top of it. He tries to swing at you and falls to his death every time and you get 2000 souls. This entire run takes you 5 mins and grants you 3000 total souls. The game isn't fair so i'm cheesing it.
 
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LarknThe4th

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I don't really care about the "image" because it's not like I'm strutting into work bragging about how I completed Dark Souls.
Everyone would be like "what the fuck is Dark Souls?"

It's curious that so many people take this line of argument though.
"Oh it's cringy." "Oh the community is just so toxic." "Oh these losers think beating a game is worth anything LOL."

Almost as if the problem isn't actually with the games difficulty at all and is more of a pettiness against people who like those games.

All the games you listed can do what they want. It's irrelevant.

I would drift away because honestly what I'd see is a developer that I respect is conceding to a bunch of whiners online.

They made the game the way they wanted to make it.
At first nobody really seemed to notice but then these games became a kind of cult classic.
Almost like their own genre to be honest.

Then their popularity went mainstream and suddenly after all this time people are moaning about difficulty.

"Games are art."

ALSO

"The art is too challenging for me. Change it!"
A lot to unpack here

I didn't say anything about toxicity of the Souls fanbase or infer it was sad to clear them(i have cleared them all so why would I say that?) So dont know why you are mentioning any of that in I response to me

My central point is exceptionally simple, what material difference does it make to you, if these games had an easy mode, the game will stay the very same to you playing in the regular way, especially when I have mentioned games that tower over the souls games having easy modes and it means exactly nothing to there enduring legacies

The difficulty selection screen or omittance of one is nothing special, Nintendo games dont have em either but even the highly conservative Nintendo are adding in extra difficulty options in there games now for people who want an extra challenge

I think the lack of a difficulty selection screen is being taken into an almost mythological context by some as some sort of "purity" inherent in only Souls game and yes that is cringe, dont think its toxic or anything absurd like that, just humourous
 
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