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Demon’s Souls’ devs considered, and ultimately left out, an easy mode

Saruhashi

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I'll address the main crux of your argument it's all optional like why is this an issue, maybe people want to play the witness and Obra Dinn but have trouble with the puzzles, what difference does it make for them to play a mode that essentially makes it trivial, ne and you wouldn't go for it but sure that's why choices are good, we can ignore that and go straight for the regular mode

A god mode being enabled in Souls games for people who just say love the art style and soundtrack and swinging swords in their very unique game worlds I mean I do understand why someone would like that and I'm sure you do too, and honestly enabling God Mode isnt going to take up any dev time

Your last paragraph, now this is the only interesting thing I have seen on this subject from people who let's say dont want options, it's a real concern

BUT!!! This is why the team can make their uniquely curated difficulty, what we would know as the regular souls games we have played for years, and then when that's done they just have two more modes below it, one mode would be "EASY" and what it does is halve the damage you take and doubt les the damage you deal

And "VERY EASY" which is just GOD mode invincible

That way, people can take the easy option but at no added time to the revs cause really all they have done is make one difficulty and let's say carried the two and divided it accordingly when it comes to damage output and defense

Everybody wins

Excellent. Let's make videogames but allow people to remove the "game" part.

I bet that's every developers dream. Spend months, maybe even years, creating an experience only to have the audience just ignore your work entirely and opt for the "skip all the game-like bits" option.

Sure the puzzles were painstakingly developed but wouldn't it be great if the players could just ignore them? :)
 
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borborygmus

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Certain builds make Demon Souls fairly easy, at least compared to the potential difficulty of playing it blind with no references and as a strictly melee build (which is how I think most people play the game initially). These games already have a difficulty slider, more or less, in whether or not you leverage 'easy-mode' builds or weapons. Only thing is you need to be fairly familiar with the game to be aware of its easy mode.

You're talking to people who have no desire to really try.

They just don't like the existence of something that is gaining some attention yet is not for them.
 
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iconmaster

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Highly artificial metric, but right now Demon's Souls is the seventh most-played game (Just Chatting isn't a game) on Twitch, beating out streamer darling Among Us. This does include a very small handful of PS3 players.

 

Alexios

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Excellent. Let's make videogames but allow people to remove the "game" part.

I bet that's every developers dream. Spend months, maybe even years, creating an experience only to have the audience just ignore your work entirely and opt for the "skip all the game-like bits" option.

Sure the puzzles were painstakingly developed but wouldn't it be great if the players could just ignore them? :)
I want Steven's Sausage Roll (btw this was called the Dark Souls of puzzle games, hah) and Cubism without the puzzles, that'd be fun.
 
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Saruhashi

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I know what Souls combat is like

And I wasnt comparing Souls games to EA or Ubisoft I was comparing it to games like Halo CE, Resident Evil 4, MGS 3 or Doom

They wouldn't have to change anything beyond the damage the player deals and takes from enemies and let it scale to level ups and increase health drops, this isnt new it's the way games have ALWAYS done difficulty scaling in combat heavy games

And that option can be there in the menu, nestled safely under the Normal mode ya know the one we would choose

Don't different builds, weapons, armor and level grinding already do this?

Like, everything you want to do there can be done by planning your build. You just want to be able to select in a menu.
 
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LarknThe4th

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Excellent. Let's make videogames but allow people to remove the "game" part.

I bet that's every developers dream. Spend months, maybe even years, creating an experience only to have the audience just ignore your work entirely and opt for the "skip all the game-like bits" option.

Sure the puzzles were painstakingly developed but wouldn't it be great if the players could just ignore them? :)
Why is every response to this insinuating that I want people here on a videogame forum to play these easy modes? 😂😂😂

Lads we will play the hardest mode,
and the other options are for other people, no one beyond some weirdly ideological stance of "games have gotten soft I tell ya" has actually explained why an easy mode or god mode is bad, so really the only observation to be made at this stage is, everyone who are against it are secretly worried that they might use it as a crutch when they are really stuck thus ruining there (not real)gamer cred

Lads games are escapism, let everybody escape in em, it doesn't make you any less of a gamer 😂😂
 
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Danjin44

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They wouldn't have to change anything beyond the damage the player deals and takes from enemies and let it scale to level ups and increase health drops, this isnt new it's the way games have ALWAYS done difficulty scaling in combat heavy games
People who are asking for difficulty option are the people who have no patience for it, they would also have no patience to play the game with slow combat and wouldn't bother finishing it.

Try to carter to people who have no interest in games like this in the first place is pointless.
 
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LarknThe4th

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Don't different builds, weapons, armor and level grinding already do this?

Like, everything you want to do there can be done by planning your build. You just want to be able to select in a menu.
I've cleared every Souls game so personally I wouldn't care for it, but what about some kid?

Let em have there fun and escape into an electronic toy for a few hours for crying out loud! Do it for the kids man! 😂😂
 
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LarknThe4th

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People who are asking for difficulty option are the people who have no patience for it, they would also have no patience to play the game with slow combat and wouldn't bother finishing it.

Try to carter to people who have no interest in games like this in the first place is pointless.
Elitist rubbish,

"They wouldn't get it anyway, it's so special only me and the true gamers can understand it"

Some of these responses really are becoming a bit of a caricature of the Gamerz outline, much maligned and laughed at, it's a videogame not a science paper or Plato 😂😂
 
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borborygmus

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no one beyond some weirdly ideological stance of "games have gotten soft I tell ya" has actually explained why an easy mode or god mode is bad

It's been explained hundreds of times. Whiners don't like the answer though and will pretend not to have read it, as you're doing now.
 

Keihart

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Wider audiences, the bane of gaming and entertainment if suits have their way.
It's like replacing every food with Soylent, because you know, almost everyone can eat it and it's so flavorless that most people won't get offended.

Just like most ubisoft tittles, the soylent of video games.
 
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Valonquar

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It isn't even difficult on first playthrough now. Honestly 85% of the difficulty in the PS3 classic was the fact you had to wait a long ass time on loading screens every time you died. Take away those 2 minutes of loading screen punishments and there's nearly no impact on death, unless you mess up and lose a ton of souls at once.
 

Saruhashi

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People who are asking for difficulty option are the people who have no patience for it, they would also have no patience to play the game with slow combat and wouldn't bother finishing it.

Try to carter to people who have no interest in games like this in the first place is pointless.

I'm thinking they are the kind of people who would go into a restaurant just to use the toilet.

"Sure they have lovely food on the menu but I just want to go in the back and do a shit. OPTIONS ARE GOOD!"
 

LarknThe4th

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It's been explained hundreds of times. Whiners don't like the answer though and will pretend not to have read it, as you're doing now.

Nah it keeps coming back to an ideological stance, people like to derive value from clearing hard games and dont want a games cred to be stained by an easy mode, again very humorous and all but yeah....
 

LarknThe4th

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Proving my point. Too many people have wasted their energy giving genuine answers but the obstinate whiner's mind is impermeable.
Obstinate whiner

Get off your high horse 😂😂

You just dont want your hardcore little game getting tainted in anyway by being seen as accessible, it is so see through

Somebody above raised a valid point about a difficulty toggle meaning that essentially three separate modes have to be balanced, but if ya just scale down what is the Normal or intended difficulty down to easy with a damage multiplier and subtracted and again for very easy then it's like a day or two work for one person, no one is saying these additional modes have to be well balanced just shove em in there and make sure they make the game easier

Again though, nobody is giving a solid eason beyond vague ideology as to why these modes would hurt the regular mode we on this board would all select
 

borborygmus

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Obstinate whiner

Get off your high horse 😂😂

You just dont want your hardcore little game getting tainted in anyway by being seen as accessible, it is so see through

Somebody above raised a valid point about a difficulty toggle meaning that essentially three separate modes have to be balanced, but if ya just scale down what is the Normal or intended difficulty down to easy with a damage multiplier and subtracted and again for very easy then it's like a day or two work for one person, no one is saying these additional modes have to be well balanced just shove em in there and make sure they make the game easier

Again though, nobody is giving a solid eason beyond vague ideology as to why these modes would hurt the regular mode we on this board would all select

I want a docile version of you. Options are good! I demand you provide me this option.
 
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borborygmus

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Nah it dont work on People!

Just electronic toys, ya know the important stuff!

It's easy though so why not. Nobody's saying you have to be balanced.

Nobody has given me a SoLiD rEaSoN why not.

The reason you won't of course, is you have an identity. Games and game developers have an identity too and it's wrong to petition others to compromise on things like that.

Try telling the people who designed it so painstakingly that it's just a dumb toy.
 
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Bragr

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I'll address the main crux of your argument it's all optional like why is this an issue, maybe people want to play the witness and Obra Dinn but have trouble with the puzzles, what difference does it make for them to play a mode that essentially makes it trivial, ne and you wouldn't go for it but sure that's why choices are good, we can ignore that and go straight for the regular mode

A god mode being enabled in Souls games for people who just say love the art style and soundtrack and swinging swords in their very unique game worlds I mean I do understand why someone would like that and I'm sure you do too, and honestly enabling God Mode isnt going to take up any dev time

Your last paragraph, now this is the only interesting thing I have seen on this subject from people who let's say dont want options, it's a real concern

BUT!!! This is why the team can make their uniquely curated difficulty, what we would know as the regular souls games we have played for years, and then when that's done they just have two more modes below it, one mode would be "EASY" and what it does is halve the damage you take and doubt les the damage you deal

And "VERY EASY" which is just GOD mode invincible

That way, people can take the easy option but at no added time to the revs cause really all they have done is make one difficulty and let's say carried the two and divided it accordingly when it comes to damage output and defense

Everybody wins
If the game had modes like that, I think a lot of people would take it as some sort of insult, like easy being "idiot mode", but I think they actually attract more people by satisfying the hardcore rather than trying to widen the net.

These days developers are too afraid to make normal any sort of challenge and players are used to playing on easy modes without even knowing that they would enjoy harder modes. From Software solves this by not offering a way to play the game like people usually would and instead, they are forced to challenge themselves, what happens is that some people hate it while some others might discover that harder modes can sometimes enhance the game considerably. If you had multiple modes, I'm not even sure From Software games would kick-off. The approach of one difficulty converted people to play harder whether they wanted to or not. A lot of people discovered they liked it. My approach to difficulty has certainly changed. People might play on easy/normal, not even knowing they would love it a lot more on normal/hard, because they are too acclimated to easy games and fear it.

I honestly don't believe their games would suffer too much if it was easier, I'm no die-hard From Software fan, but I can understand and appreciate that the studio believes easier modes might dilute the gameplay. They don't care about everybody wins, and I can appreciate that.
 

LarknThe4th

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The mask slips and the screeching begins.

Every damn time.

Nothing to do with the game. Just pettiness towards fans of one particular genre.
Somebody is taking things a little too seriously.... I have no malice for fellow videogame fans

Love souls games friend(well 2 is awful dont and 3 is kinda meh after Bloodborne)but I do love chatting about them and every facet of the fanbase around them has morphed in so many weird and fascinating ways

I just dont understand how an easy mode makes them worse
 

borborygmus

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I just dont understand how an easy mode makes them worse

You've positioned yourself as having already won by default, with people having to convince you that it's worse.

No, you have to convince the people you're arguing against and the developers that it's better. The burden is on you. And you've let slip that you have nothing. "It's easy, why not" is not an argument.
 
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LarknThe4th

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You've positioned yourself as having already won by default, with people having to convince you that it's worse.

No, you have to convince the developers that it's better.
I dont care about convincing the developers!

They have clearly decided that they wont have them, but it's a fun thing to discuss.

I mean half this board now is talking about specs and corporate mergers and all sorts of very boring stuff, I like to talk about how games tick, why decisions are made how they where, are and maybe will go it's the whole appeal of this forum

I dont see how adding an easy mode makes them worse games, lots of vigorous back and forths later and I still think that and everybody else thinks what they think
 

Ar¢tos

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There is a simple solution that will please everyone without changing the developer vision: Rename the Royalty class to "Easy Mode".
Problem solved.
Veterans get to play the game they love unchanged and skill-challenged players get to play the game, they can even attempt to get the Platinum trophy.
 

borborygmus

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There is a simple solution that will please everyone without changing the developer vision: Rename the Royalty class to "Easy Mode".
Problem solved.
Veterans get to play the game they love unchanged and skill-challenged players get to play the game, they can even attempt to get the Platinum trophy.

This has been said a million times, but they don't care because they are not genuine.
 

LarknThe4th

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If the game had modes like that, I think a lot of people would take it as some sort of insult, like easy being "idiot mode", but I think they actually attract more people by satisfying the hardcore rather than trying to widen the net.

These days developers are too afraid to make normal any sort of challenge and players are used to playing on easy modes without even knowing that they would enjoy harder modes. From Software solves this by not offering a way to play the game like people usually would and instead, they are forced to challenge themselves, what happens is that some people hate it while some others might discover that harder modes can sometimes enhance the game considerably. If you had multiple modes, I'm not even sure From Software games would kick-off. The approach of one difficulty converted people to play harder whether they wanted to or not. A lot of people discovered they liked it. My approach to difficulty has certainly changed. People might play on easy/normal, not even knowing they would love it a lot more on normal/hard, because they are too acclimated to easy games and fear it.

I honestly don't believe their games would suffer too much if it was easier, I'm no die-hard From Software fan, but I can understand and appreciate that the studio believes easier modes might dilute the gameplay. They don't care about everybody wins, and I can appreciate that.
Probably the best post I have seen on the subject good stuff!
 

Johnny Silver

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I'll probably pick this game up in a couple years used on ebay. I hope this doesn't piss you off bub.

You're the only one here seemingly pissed off, since your complaining never ends.

The other people, including me, are just spectators to your pointless whining, which it seems still hasn't ended.

I must now consider you're just doing this to get attention.
 
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Mentat02

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I love how they even considered it. The balls on these guys, Miyazaki was on the verge of losing his job over Demon's Souls bombing at launch. He didn't even consider making the game "easier" to cater towards the general audience. Turns out he was right, his games are best sellers and critically acclaimed.
 

Saruhashi

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I just dont understand how an easy mode makes them worse

Never said an easy mode makes them worse.

Objectively though if the developer includes them then it's because of incessant whining and I don't think that's a good thing.

I think it's OK to have a few games that are just doing their own thing. In fact, the more the better.

Not impressed by the constant complaining because a mere handful of games have a different philosophy.
 

Tranquil

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You're the only one here seemingly pissed off, since your complaining never ends.

The other people, including me, are just spectators to your pointless whining, which it seems still hasn't ended.

I must now consider you're just doing this to get attention.

I admit I enjoy debating.

Sorry I upset you, hope you have a great thanksgiving bub.
 

LarknThe4th

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Never said an easy mode makes them worse.

Objectively though if the developer includes them then it's because of incessant whining and I don't think that's a good thing.

I think it's OK to have a few games that are just doing their own thing. In fact, the more the better.

Not impressed by the constant complaining because a mere handful of games have a different philosophy.
And my argument I guess or position if ya want, is I believe that an easy mode opens it up and people who couldn't experience a Souls game because of the difficulty but would absolutely love it for the many other things they do well(soundtrack, ambient atmosphere, art direction, lore)

I think that's a good thing

And I dont know what to tell ya about people constantly requesting or at least wanting to engage on the topic of Souls games and the difficulty.... it's a hot topic, constantly in a state of flux just like any good debate
 
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Grinchy

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I think they should actually make it so you can't collect the boss's soul unless you solo it. So you can use summoning to cheese your way through the game, but you can't get the benefit of gaining their souls unless you nut up and actually do something instead of cowering in the corner while some magic guy sprays the boss to death.
 
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Roufianos

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I just don't see the big deal. You could literally make TLOU II so easy that you could walk through the combat sections and ignore the enemies firing at you. Did that affect anyone's enjoyment of Grounded mode or compromise the dev's vision?

Literally all they had to do was make a mode with more checkpoints, double the damage dealt and no losing half your healthbar if you die. If people wanna cheese their way through the game then why should it bother anyone else?
 
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I dunno about y'all but I think Ben Nevis needs an elevator to the summit. I mean, it looks so cool from up there, and imagine all the childin that would love to see what it looks like so lets start an elevator for them.....and me..
 
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Danjin44

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Did that affect anyone's enjoyment of Grounded mode or compromise the dev's vision?
People play TLOU to experience the story and people play Souls games for gameplay and that difficulty is part of that gameplay same way high violence part of TLOU's story. One big part makes exploration so rewarding in Souls series because its risky, you might lose everything at any moment which makes the experience rewarding.
 
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oagboghi2

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Easy games certainly have the potential to sell better than hard games, lower barrier of entry

Although you are ignoring the main thrust of my argument, what harm would it do to include an easy mode, it doesn't somehow stain the regular, developer intended, mode that would be a silly assertion
Because an easy mode in this game would fundamentally change the design. Difficulty, dying, is part of the game. Same as in Sekiro and Nioh

There is a easier way to play Demon/Dark souls, but it requires you to understand builds, and combat, and what your build is doing to make it easier. It still requires investment from the player to give a shit.

An easy mode where you nerf every enemy attack is not the same game. You are telling people to not make that same investment.
Overall it's a lesser experience, what is the point of that?
 
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oagboghi2

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It makes no difference to me.
Playing a videogame is not an important endeavor in the grand scheme.

These games were attractive to me through word of mouth and the challenge was the thing that kept me coming back.
If they bow down to the mob then I guess I just play other games. It's not a big deal.

I can guarantee that if they "sell out" and start putting difficulty modes in their games then all that will happen is a bunch of smaller developers will come out with games that are "Dark Souls before Dark Souls sold out" and I'll play them instead.

We're asking different questions I guess.

To answer yours. It wouldn't make any difference to me. I'd just gravitate towards different games. There is not enough time to play every game in the world so who cares? Maybe I would just replay the originals.

Why this constant nipping at this particular genre and why the constant moaning about needing to add options?

Do people not understand that it's OK to miss out on some games?
It's OK to say "I'm not really into that, even though it seems to be popular".

It's like we want to hold videogames up as these incredible works of art where all of these different elements and systems and technical aspects need to be balanced. Then we want to moan because the art challenged us in ways we didn't enjoy. That's art though.

Games media seems particularly bad for it.
Create a game that raises certain political talking points and it's just so amazing and wonderful how it really challenges the players to blah blah.
Create a game that askes you to learn it's systems and engage in a process of improvement and it's total bullshit that needs difficulty sliders.

Maybe gaming is stuck between people who see it as a storytelling medium and people who want to play and "win" at some kind of "game".
The thing is that the medium can easily do both but for individual games it's hard to perfectly please EVERY player.

I see no big deal in having a handful of games every generation that are out there doing their own thing.
These are the same people who complain about the "git gud" mentality. I honestly think that's what this is really about.

If they wanted to play "easy mode" soul games, Jedi Fallen order is right there. For some reason it's always about games connected to From software in some way
 
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renzolama

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I chuckled when I saw the 'brutally difficult' marketing after recenlt finishing Sekiro and Doom Eternal DLC on UV. Demon's Souls is now Chill Souls.
 
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