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Demon’s Souls’ devs considered, and ultimately left out, an easy mode

Saruhashi

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It's not that I can't beat these games as is but I like to play at a chill level from time to time then challenge myself later on.
But since this game doesn't allow you to chill I kept $70 in my wallet and just watched a streamer play.
Pretty sure there's tens of thousands of potential $70 purchases that went *p00f* as well.

I wonder if the decision was really worth it.
I'm not even mad either.

LOL.

It's not the only game in the world though.

Unless you have some desire to own every single videogame ever I don't think it's a big deal to miss out on one or two because they aren't for you.

I don't do online gaming so I've never touched a Call of Duty or Overwatch etc etc.
Pretty sure there are many people like me. There are dozens of us!
That's them missing out on my money! Silly devs.

I feel like this whole conversation would be easier if people understood the concept of genres.
Then it becomes easier to accept that you don't like some genres but you do like others.

It's a videogame and I like videogames! Reeeeeeee! This videogame has something I don't like!

Just the same as folks who think anything less than 90 on Metacritic is a failure or a disappointment.
Not every game needs to be a world beater and not every game needs to satisfy every single need.

It's slightly hypocritical too since as a community we tend to feel like people who don't want to see violence or sex or whatever in their games are some kind of puritanical, Jack Thompson-esque, censors but we're happy to turn right around and moan because a game has no "chill levels" and that's what we like!
 

Saruhashi

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A lot to unpack here

I didn't say anything about toxicity of the Souls fanbase or infer it was sad to clear them(i have cleared them all so why would I say that?) So dont know why you are mentioning any of that in I response to me

My central point is exceptionally simple, what material difference does it make to you, if these games had an easy mode, the game will stay the very same to you playing in the regular way, especially when I have mentioned games that tower over the souls games having easy modes and it means exactly nothing to there enduring legacies

The difficulty selection screen or omittance of one is nothing special, Nintendo games dont have em either but even the highly conservative Nintendo are adding in extra difficulty options in there games now for people who want an extra challenge

I think the lack of a difficulty selection screen is being taken into an almost mythological context by some as some sort of "purity" inherent in only Souls game and yes that is cringe, dont think its toxic or anything absurd like that, just humourous

It makes no difference to me.
Playing a videogame is not an important endeavor in the grand scheme.

These games were attractive to me through word of mouth and the challenge was the thing that kept me coming back.
If they bow down to the mob then I guess I just play other games. It's not a big deal.

I can guarantee that if they "sell out" and start putting difficulty modes in their games then all that will happen is a bunch of smaller developers will come out with games that are "Dark Souls before Dark Souls sold out" and I'll play them instead.

We're asking different questions I guess.

To answer yours. It wouldn't make any difference to me. I'd just gravitate towards different games. There is not enough time to play every game in the world so who cares? Maybe I would just replay the originals.

Why this constant nipping at this particular genre and why the constant moaning about needing to add options?
Do people not understand that it's OK to miss out on some games?
It's OK to say "I'm not really into that, even though it seems to be popular".

It's like we want to hold videogames up as these incredible works of art where all of these different elements and systems and technical aspects need to be balanced. Then we want to moan because the art challenged us in ways we didn't enjoy. That's art though.

Games media seems particularly bad for it.
Create a game that raises certain political talking points and it's just so amazing and wonderful how it really challenges the players to blah blah.
Create a game that askes you to learn it's systems and engage in a process of improvement and it's total bullshit that needs difficulty sliders.

Maybe gaming is stuck between people who see it as a storytelling medium and people who want to play and "win" at some kind of "game".
The thing is that the medium can easily do both but for individual games it's hard to perfectly please EVERY player.

I see no big deal in having a handful of games every generation that are out there doing their own thing.
 

LarknThe4th

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It makes no difference to me.
Playing a videogame is not an important endeavor in the grand scheme.

These games were attractive to me through word of mouth and the challenge was the thing that kept me coming back.
If they bow down to the mob then I guess I just play other games. It's not a big deal.

I can guarantee that if they "sell out" and start putting difficulty modes in their games then all that will happen is a bunch of smaller developers will come out with games that are "Dark Souls before Dark Souls sold out" and I'll play them instead.

We're asking different questions I guess.

To answer yours. It wouldn't make any difference to me. I'd just gravitate towards different games. There is not enough time to play every game in the world so who cares? Maybe I would just replay the originals.

Why this constant nipping at this particular genre and why the constant moaning about needing to add options?
Do people not understand that it's OK to miss out on some games?
It's OK to say "I'm not really into that, even though it seems to be popular".

It's like we want to hold videogames up as these incredible works of art where all of these different elements and systems and technical aspects need to be balanced. Then we want to moan because the art challenged us in ways we didn't enjoy. That's art though.

Games media seems particularly bad for it.
Create a game that raises certain political talking points and it's just so amazing and wonderful how it really challenges the players to blah blah.
Create a game that askes you to learn it's systems and engage in a process of improvement and it's total bullshit that needs difficulty sliders.

Maybe gaming is stuck between people who see it as a storytelling medium and people who want to play and "win" at some kind of "game".
The thing is that the medium can easily do both but for individual games it's hard to perfectly please EVERY player.

I see no big deal in having a handful of games every generation that are out there doing their own thing.
I feel you are looking way too deeply at this, like I said earlier there are seismic games in this industry of a bigger scale historically and they all have easy modes, didnt make them less special, in fact it undoubtedly helped get more people into there amazing worlds

Its moot on many levels because Souls games wont have difficulty toggles for the next while I would imagine

Again I find it equal parts perplexing and amusing honestly, i never been one for purity tests though so maybe that explains my indifference to hurdles of entry
 

Saruhashi

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I feel you are looking way too deeply at this, like I said earlier there are seismic games in this industry of a bigger scale historically and they all have easy modes, didnt make them less special, in fact it undoubtedly helped get more people into there amazing worlds

Its moot on many levels because Souls games wont have difficulty toggles for the next while I would imagine

Again I find it equal parts perplexing and amusing honestly, i never been one for purity tests though so maybe that explains my indifference to hurdles of entry

What's too deep?

There are a handful of games each generation that don't have difficulty settings.
I say that's fine. Just let them do their thing.

"Oh but there's other games that are seismic and they just want to get people into their amazing worlds."
Grand. Handful of games. Just let them do their thing.

"But it doesn't even matter to you and why do you think difficulty is some important or the only defining feature?"
Awesome. I like what they do. It's only a few games. Let them do their thing.

It's weird that people have to justify why they like a certain genre or series then need to listen to some shite about how it doesn't affect anyone if the developer just does what they are told. Why is that a thing?

I am fine with them doing what they are doing now and would like them to not change on account of my liking what they are already doing.
That's deep?
 

LarknThe4th

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What's too deep?

There are a handful of games each generation that don't have difficulty settings.
I say that's fine. Just let them do their thing.

"Oh but there's other games that are seismic and they just want to get people into their amazing worlds."
Grand. Handful of games. Just let them do their thing.

"But it doesn't even matter to you and why do you think difficulty is some important or the only defining feature?"
Awesome. I like what they do. It's only a few games. Let them do their thing.

It's weird that people have to justify why they like a certain genre or series then need to listen to some shite about how it doesn't affect anyone if the developer just does what they are told. Why is that a thing?

I am fine with them doing what they are doing now and would like them to not change on account of my liking what they are already doing.
That's deep?
Well yeah, all it is is a toggle that goes

EASY
NORMAL
HARD
 

AV

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Serious question to people who think this game "needs" an easy mode: what if there was one, but it made things just 10% easier and it was still harder than most modern games? What then? Would you still complain that the easy mode wasn't easy enough, or would you immediately be satisfied and hand over $70? Do you really want an "easy mode" or do you just want an option that lets you "experience" the game casually?

Because if it's the latter, you can't. It's not even close the same experience if you remove the challenge. In fact, it would be pretty boring I'd imagine, because the core loop of Souls isn't actually very engaging when the stakes are low. That's the whole point. When you're carrying tens of thousands of souls on your way to a bonfire or shortcut, even a 1v1 with a basic enemy skeleton can get your heart racing, just in case you fuck up and he gets an easy whack at you. If that skeleton has basically no chance of defeating you, all tension is lost. The experience is compromised and you've drank a watered-down version of the punch.
 

Bo_Hazem

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When the brutally difficult action game “Demon’s Souls” was reborn on the PS5, it rekindled a familiar, divisive debate: Should the game have an easy mode? Bluepoint, which took the reins for the remake from the game’s original creators, Japanese studio FromSoftware, contemplated adding an easy mode and ultimately decided against it, revealed creative director Gavin Moore in an email to The Washington Post.
“This project remakes the work of another development team," wrote Moore. “While we’ve made some changes, our core driving mantra has always been to preserve the spirit and intent of the original creators. While we considered and discussed an easy mode, we ultimately decided it wasn’t our place — merely being custodians for this amazing game — to add something that would fundamentally alter its balance.”



The topic’s endurance and fervor in video game discourse has shown how arriving at an answer is difficult at best, with any outcome likely to provoke criticism. At the root of the debate is a question about reconciling the challenge of a game with its accessibility, something that has prompted opinion pieces in outlets such as Game Informer and Kotaku, particularly about “Souls” games. Some argue that “easy modes” aren’t an adequate enough answer for accessibility to begin with; others have noted that difficulty and accessibility are separate issues.

Moore had made it clear that “Demon’s Souls” would have no easy mode in late October, stating in an interview with Game Informer, “There are no difficulty options, and there shouldn’t be,” adding that he felt the game’s challenge was “fair.” What Bluepoint and Sony did, however, was introduce a number of accessibility features to allow more people to play the game while also utilizing the PlayStation 5′s new user interface to offer help for the game’s grind.



Though the difficulty is unchanged, Bluepoint and Sony didn’t want to leave players without help, especially for those playing the game for the first time. As such, PlayStation Plus members can access 180 tip videos without exiting the game, as part of PlayStation 5’s new UI. You can view them by clicking on an activity card in the control menu of the PS5.
“I think a lot of new users hear ‘Demon’s Souls’ and they go ‘Oh that’s game’s really difficult.’ But it’s not. It’s actually very fair. It’s challenging, but very fair,” said Moore in an earlier conversation with The Post. “But we do understand that people get stuck. ... And we’ve got 180 plus help videos that actually sit inside the game, so if you do get stuck, you can bring up, as you’re still playing, one of those help videos and it will tell you, ‘In this area, you need to do this,’ or ‘This is the best tactic against this boss.’ The way the system works is it will show you a video if you ask for some help, which is just enough to give you a hint. And then if you still haven’t got it, you can look at the next one.”

More at the link:

 

Saruhashi

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Serious question to people who think this game "needs" an easy mode: what if there was one, but it made things just 10% easier and it was still harder than most modern games? What then? Would you still complain that the easy mode wasn't easy enough, or would you immediately be satisfied and hand over $70? Do you really want an "easy mode" or do you just want an option that lets you "experience" the game casually?

Because if it's the latter, you can't. It's not even close the same experience if you remove the challenge. In fact, it would be pretty boring I'd imagine, because the core loop of Souls isn't actually very engaging when the stakes are low. That's the whole point. When you're carrying tens of thousands of souls on your way to a bonfire or shortcut, even a 1v1 with a basic enemy skeleton can get your heart racing, just in case you fuck up and he gets an easy whack at you. If that skeleton has basically no chance of defeating you, all tension is lost. The experience is compromised and you've drank a watered-down version of the punch.

I would like to take the question further.

What if the game offered some kind of revolutionary "level up" system that meant you could make things objectively easier by increasing "statistics" such as health, damage output, stamina etc?

If the game were to offer such things then surely the argument for an easy more is actually "it's too difficult to make the game easier"?

The game itself offers many ways to make things objectively easier. Though you would still have to put in some kind of effort to get there.
"Yes but options menus..."
 

gow3isben

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Screw low difficulty. I would have appreciated adding a save point right before each boss though. As slogging 20+ minutes each time you die can get old. You end up just running past everything after a while which is hella tedious.
 
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Saruhashi

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Well yeah, all it is is a toggle that goes

EASY
NORMAL
HARD

What does your "easy" mode look like then?

Player has more HP? Easily achieved by levelling up.
Player deals more damage? See above.
Player has more stamina? See above.

What if you could "summon" some kind of assistance?

I'm interested in how much easier an easy mode should make the game and if the effects you might suggest could be implemented into gameplay somehow.
 
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Umbral

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Again with this stupid difficulty arguments in Souls games. Its what they are, you either going like it or not. I don't like the fact REVIII went first person with their game but ultimately its devs choice how they want to make their games
I demand they include a third-person option because I prefer it so I can see my character.
 

DogofWar

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What does your "easy" mode look like then?

Enemies have reduced limit of vision, to help players prepare better.
Enemies wont attack a player if they are already engaged in combat. The Tower Knight hasn't forgotten his knightly virtues in this mode!
The red dragon has been replaced by an additional archer.
The black dual katana skeletons has been replaced by Crystal Lizard giving you 3 pure stones of each variant.
Red phantoms invading you (including players) have their HP cut by 95 % and damage rating by 80%.
You will have your HP refilled everytime someone rates any message everywhere.
If you ask Stockpile Thomas he will kill all the bosses for you.

With this simple addition the game will be more accesible and reach a wider audience.
 
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Umbral

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I've heard you can cheese every boss encounter in some way. Not into that. I did play about half of Sekiro, I had to take a break after every boss to settle down. Not my kind of entertainment.
I don’t play JRPG’s. They’re not for me. No harm, no foul. There are too many games to play anyway.
 
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AV

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What does your "easy" mode look like then?

Player has more HP? Easily achieved by levelling up.
Player deals more damage? See above.
Player has more stamina? See above.

What if you could "summon" some kind of assistance?

I'm interested in how much easier an easy mode should make the game and if the effects you might suggest could be implemented into gameplay somehow.

The disabled quadriplegic who beat Sekiro comes to your house and plays it for you.
 

Umbral

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I'd appreciate an easy mode just so I could explore, because I love the atmosphere of the games. Sadly I'm not good enough to play them.
What’s great is you can wipe out an entire level of enemies and the freely walk about and do your sightseeing.
 
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Nymphae

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I think the best option, aside from leaving them as they are, is to add in the desired baby modes, but playing through those modes would be accompanied by literal nerf-style weapons, humiliating wardrobe options, soft and child-like sound effects and music, etc. Applause sound effect when any player action is taken. Picked up an item? Give them a condescending trophy, cue applause. Instead of a "YOU DIED" upon death, it could say "WAIT DON'T LEAVE WE'LL GIVE YOU MORE ITEMS IF YOU TRY AGAIN", any time an enemy is defeated it could say "YOU DID GREAT"
 

Joon

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Good. I personally can't stand the thought of others playing the game on an different setting from me, so this game doesn't need more options.
 

Johnny Silver

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I've heard you can cheese every boss encounter in some way. Not into that. I did play about half of Sekiro, I had to take a break after every boss to settle down. Not my kind of entertainment.

Why do you force yourself in playing these challenging, but fair games if you are finding no pleasure in them?

If it's not your cup of tea then and you know it then why force the issue? You won't get anything solved that way. The souls/borne games are made this way, their appeal lies in surpassing the challenge and in getting stronger through grinding and carefully applied patience.

If you know they are not a pleasing experience for you, then why do you keep forcing the issue and protesting? From Software or Bluepoint aren't going to change the game to suit your tastes.
 

Umbral

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I think the best option, aside from leaving them as they are, is to add in the desired baby modes, but playing through those modes would be accompanied by literal nerf-style weapons, humiliating wardrobe options, soft and child-like sound effects and music, etc. Applause sound effect when any player action is taken. Picked up an item? Give them a condescending trophy, cue applause. Instead of a "YOU DIED" upon death, it could say "WAIT DON'T LEAVE WE'LL GIVE YOU MORE ITEMS IF YOU TRY AGAIN", any time an enemy is defeated it could say "YOU DID GREAT"
That would be great, like the chicken hat in MGS V. “Here’s your easy stealth, but you have to wear this stupid chicken hat to get it.”
 
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Elcid

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I don't know how I used to fight Flamelurker naked on the PS3 version, I can't manage to touch the fucker now on NG+.
 
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AV

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Good. I personally can't stand the thought of others playing the game on an different setting from me, so this game doesn't need more options.

Answer me this, why isn't there an invincibility toggle in every game? It would be incredibly easy for the devs to implement. Quick afternoon patch I imagine. Can you tell me why no-one is complaining about that?

Surely they should add invincibility mode to every single video game on the planet, because sometimes easy mode isn't easy enough. Would you say that's a reasonable expectation?
 

Nymphae

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Answer me this, why isn't there an invincibility toggle in every game? It would be incredibly easy for the devs to implement. Quick afternoon patch I imagine. Can you tell me why no-one is complaining about that?

Dude careful they will start asking for this
 

Alexios

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It's the easiest Souls game, almost always fair so long as you're careful. Some deaths here and there will happen, sure, but nothing crazy bad, the bosses are the easiest in the series too and can be overpowered/outlasted, save a couple, even if you're not playing very good (like me).

It only gets truly tough and so you have to engage with the mechanics and some stratergy in the order you tackle things and how you upgrade weapons when you get to New Game +, before that it's basically a cakewalk, after that the enemies and bosses dish out too much damage.

The whole enjoyment of the game comes from besting enemies that impede your progress, if you can best them with just pressing A (R1) for Awesome then there's no game here and you're better served playing something else rather than playing on easy mode even if it was added.

It's like you want a soccer game where there are no opponents to stop you from scoring and you think that has value for so many people that companies should release the games. These games have nothing on the likes of Mega Man and old non Iga Castlevania and such for sure.
 
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Bragr

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I feel you are looking way too deeply at this, like I said earlier there are seismic games in this industry of a bigger scale historically and they all have easy modes, didnt make them less special, in fact it undoubtedly helped get more people into there amazing worlds

Its moot on many levels because Souls games wont have difficulty toggles for the next while I would imagine

Again I find it equal parts perplexing and amusing honestly, i never been one for purity tests though so maybe that explains my indifference to hurdles of entry
Well, if Souls games had difficulty levels, I would have always picked normal. I would have never put myself in the type of situations that these games do, where you have to learn to progress. It's the essence of the game, requiring the player to learn how to deal with enemies and situations to move forward.

I'm grateful that the game never gave me the choice to pick normal, as I would have never played it in such a fashion or gotten to like the games as I have.

It's what From Software is going for, is what the lore, the art, and the music are building towards, the level design, the monster design, it's all to engage players in ways other triple-A games won't do.
 

Joon

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Answer me this, why isn't there an invincibility toggle in every game? It would be incredibly easy for the devs to implement. Quick afternoon patch I imagine. Can you tell me why no-one is complaining about that?

Possibly because the number of people who want difficulty options is larger than the amount of people who want outright invincibility, and so adding difficulty options as most games do satisfies enough people well enough.
 

AV

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Possibly because the number of people who want difficulty options is larger than the amount of people who want outright invincibility, and so adding difficulty options as most games do satisfies enough people well enough.

Correct. Now, what about the people for whom the easy difficulty setting isn't enough? Isn't easy enough, I should say. What should those people do? What should developers do to cater to those people and why?
 

Joon

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Correct. Now, what about the people for whom the easy difficulty setting isn't enough? Isn't easy enough, I should say. What should those people do?

Slide the player health option to the highest setting.
 

Tranquil

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Why do you force yourself in playing these challenging, but fair games if you are finding no pleasure in them?

If it's not your cup of tea then and you know it then why force the issue? You won't get anything solved that way. The souls/borne games are made this way, their appeal lies in surpassing the challenge and in getting stronger through grinding and carefully applied patience.

If you know they are not a pleasing experience for you, then why do you keep forcing the issue and protesting? From Software or Bluepoint aren't going to change the game to suit your tastes.

I'll probably pick this game up in a couple years used on ebay. I hope this doesn't piss you off bub.
 

Joon

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Do you think they would have made the normal mode similar to the current difficulty?

Yeah.
In a world of 3 options Easy, Normal, Hard, the current game would fit into Normal. That's usually the intended difficulty setting.
 

Bragr

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Obviously From Software knows some people won't get into their games because of the difficulty, but they have built their brand on the people who love them for it. That's how they have turned their franchises into big properties, not budging on the idea behind their games is a big part of that. What they are doing is working, not alienating people.
 

Bragr

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Yeah.
In a world of 3 options Easy, Normal, Hard, the current game would fit into Normal. That's usually the intended difficulty setting.
I think that's extremely unlikely, if the game would be built with more modes, the intended difficulty would likely change.

Even so, if it did not, my point still holds, people would pick easy to avoid the punishing, and by doing so not take part in the game as intended. It's the reason why there are no modes from the start, so players can't offer to avoid engaging in the game.
 

TheMay30thMan

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While I’ve always been against the easy mode argument with these games, I have to admit, it would have been absolutely hilarious to see all the hardcore Dark Souls fans cry like babies if Bluepoint put an easy life in the game.

Edit: It would have been even FUNNIER if they added an easy, medium, and hard difficulty slider, and easy was set to the base game’s difficulty.
 
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AV

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Slide the player health option to the highest setting.

There's no health slider for players, though. You're also conveniently cutting out the questions you don't want to answer.

The point is that you already said there's a group of people who outweigh another and they should be listened to. Guess what - the number of people who are happy to play DS with no difficulty slider outweigh the vocal minority of those that refuse. Not every game has to be available to every person.

There comes a point at which developers should stop listening to whiners who don't even buy their products and do what they feel is right. Hence, no built-in godmode in 99% of games. Hence, no difficulty options in Souls. Not every game is the same. Blanket statements like "more options is always better" is way too broad to just apply to every video game. But I'd be interested to hear you say that there's never a point at which the onus is on the player to just move along and not play that game, rather than the developer for not being inclusive enough.
 

Alexios

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While I’ve always been against the easy mode argument with these games, I have to admit, it would have been absolutely hilarious to see all the hardcore Dark Souls fans cry like babies if Bluepoint put an easy life in the game.

Edit: It would have been even FUNNIER if they added an easy, medium, and hard difficulty slider, and easy was set to the base game’s difficulty.
Fans would play on normal and enjoy it, you'd just have threads full of people who play on easy (if it does change things) and trash the game for not being fun or interesting when they just mash R1 to win with no thought overpowering/outlasting all bosses even if they get hit for little damage constantly and finish it in 10 hours.
 
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LarknThe4th

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Well, if Souls games had difficulty levels, I would have always picked normal. I would have never put myself in the type of situations that these games do, where you have to learn to progress. It's the essence of the game, requiring the player to learn how to deal with enemies and situations to move forward.

I'm grateful that the game never gave me the choice to pick normal, as I would have never played it in such a fashion or gotten to like the games as I have.

It's what From Software is going for, is what the lore, the art, and the music are building towards, the level design, the monster design, it's all to engage players in ways other triple-A games won't do.
There is nothing bespoke about From not applying a difficulty level toggle in there games

This is the only thing about this that actually bothers me, fans claiming everything about Souls games is some super curated bespoke journey, that argument is completely obliterated by the fact that games that are its equal all have difficulty toggles and those games are just as perfectly made

And I love the Souls games, but nothing about them that is special derives from having less options I mean cmon now that's just silly over analysis
 

killatopak

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Add an option for easy, normal and hard but the options do nothing at all. It just tricks them that there are different difficulties.
 
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Joon

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Even so, if it did not, my point still holds, people would pick easy to avoid the punishing, and by doing so not take part in the game as intended.

That's the point of extra modes, yeah

It's the reason why there are no modes from the start, so players can't offer to avoid engaging in the game.

They can avoid engaging in the game by not playing it at all

Guess what - the number of people who are happy to play DS with no difficulty slider outweigh the vocal minority of those that refuse.

There is still a sizable group of players who want difficulty options
 

Bragr

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There is nothing bespoke about From not applying a difficulty level toggle in there games

This is the only thing about this that actually bothers me, fans claiming everything about Souls games is some super curated bespoke journey, that argument is completely obliterated by the fact that games that are its equal all have difficulty toggles and those games are just as perfectly made

And I love the Souls games, but nothing about them that is special derives from having less options I mean cmon now that's just silly over analysis
That makes little sense to me, would you say the same about games like The Witness or Return of the Obra Dinn, that those games would not suffer from optional easy puzzles that you could finish in 10 seconds? it would not be the same games.

Just because there are many games better than From Software games with difficulty modes, does not mean they are doing anything wrong without having them. There are also many that are worse that have difficulty modes. No one is saying that From Software games are better than all other games because they offer no modes.

As I said, From Software wants to offer an experience to players that only has one way of playing them, they try to stay away from the approach that people should be able to have an easy time defeating enemies, and it's one of the charms of their games and one of the main reasons why it exists. It's different, not necessarily better, but different. I don't know if an easier mode would be worse or better, but I do think it helps them by not having it, it's part of the From Software charm now, and that unflinching attitude towards it have helped them build a large hardcore fanbase.

And honestly, I am usually disappointed a lot in the balance of difficulty modes, and enjoy a developer that puts a lot of attention and effort into one of them and ignores the rest. Even if I'm glad it's not an industry standard, but I'm happy someone like From Software exists.
 
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Glad it wasn't added. If you think giving a game your full attention and learning from your mistakes is too difficult for you then I don't know what to tell you. Play one of the plethora of other games out there that are impossible to not complete.
 

LarknThe4th

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That makes little sense to me, would you say the same about games like The Witness or Return of the Obra Dinn, that those games would not suffer from optional easy puzzles that you could finish in 10 seconds? it would not be the same games.

Just because there are many games better than From Software games with difficulty modes, does not mean they are doing anything wrong without having them. There are also many that are worse that have difficulty modes. No one is saying that From Software games are better than all other games because they offer no modes.

As I said, From Software wants to offer an experience to players that only has one way of playing them, they try to stay away from the approach that people should be able to have an easy time defeating enemies, and it's one of the charms of their games and one of the main reasons why it exists. It's different, not necessarily better, but different. I don't know if an easier mode would be worse or better, but I do think it helps them by not having it, it's part of the From Software charm now, and that unflinching attitude towards it have helped them build a large hardcore fanbase.

And honestly, I am usually disappointed a lot in the balance of difficulty modes, and enjoy a developer that puts a lot of attention and effort into one of them and ignores the rest. Even if I'm glad it's not an industry standard, but I'm happy someone like From Software exists.
I'll address the main crux of your argument it's all optional like why is this an issue, maybe people want to play the witness and Obra Dinn but have trouble with the puzzles, what difference does it make for them to play a mode that essentially makes it trivial, ne and you wouldn't go for it but sure that's why choices are good, we can ignore that and go straight for the regular mode

A god mode being enabled in Souls games for people who just say love the art style and soundtrack and swinging swords in their very unique game worlds I mean I do understand why someone would like that and I'm sure you do too, and honestly enabling God Mode isnt going to take up any dev time

Your last paragraph, now this is the only interesting thing I have seen on this subject from people who let's say dont want options, it's a real concern

BUT!!! This is why the team can make their uniquely curated difficulty, what we would know as the regular souls games we have played for years, and then when that's done they just have two more modes below it, one mode would be "EASY" and what it does is halve the damage you take and doubt les the damage you deal

And "VERY EASY" which is just GOD mode invincible

That way, people can take the easy option but at no added time to the revs cause really all they have done is make one difficulty and let's say carried the two and divided it accordingly when it comes to damage output and defense

Everybody wins
 

Danjin44

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There is nothing bespoke about From not applying a difficulty level toggle in there games

This is the only thing about this that actually bothers me, fans claiming everything about Souls games is some super curated bespoke journey, that argument is completely obliterated by the fact that games that are its equal all have difficulty toggles and those games are just as perfectly made

And I love the Souls games, but nothing about them that is special derives from having less options I mean cmon now that's just silly over analysis
The combat in Souls series are slow and most of the "difficulty" comes from the fact you are less mobile. If there is easy difficulty then there is no risk and what you left with is very slow combat system and same people who complained about the difficulty will once again come here and say the combat too slow for them.

In order for Souls series to have multiple difficulty option, they have change entire nature of the combat system in order causal player also able to have fun which at that point is loses it identity.

What made Demon's Souls special back in 2009 because FROM wasn't following "industry standard" and made something special that even to this day other developers try to copy.

There is always a risk making games like this but that how we get great games. If every game try to have "mass appeal" then we would very boring gaming selection which currently what Ubisoft and EA has.
 
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LarknThe4th

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The combat in Souls series are slow and most of the "difficulty" comes from the fact you are less mobile. If there is easy difficulty then there is no risk and what you left with is very slow combat system and same people who complained about the difficulty will once again come here and say the combat too slow for them.

In order for Souls series to have multiple difficulty option, they have change entire nature of the combat system in order causal player also able to have fun which at that point is loses it identity.

What made Demon's Souls special back in 2009 because FROM wasn't following "industry standard" and made something special that even to this day other developers try to copy.

There is always a risk making games like this but that how we get great games. If all every game try to have "mass appeal" then we would very boring gaming selection which currently what Ubisoft and EA has.

I know what Souls combat is like

And I wasnt comparing Souls games to EA or Ubisoft I was comparing it to games like Halo CE, Resident Evil 4, MGS 3 or Doom

They wouldn't have to change anything beyond the damage the player deals and takes from enemies and let it scale to level ups and increase health drops, this isnt new it's the way games have ALWAYS done difficulty scaling in combat heavy games

And that option can be there in the menu, nestled safely under the Normal mode ya know the one we would choose
 

cucuchu

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Certain builds make Demon Souls fairly easy, at least compared to the potential difficulty of playing it blind with no references and as a strictly melee build (which is how I think most people play the game initially). These games already have a difficulty slider, more or less, in whether or not you leverage 'easy-mode' builds or weapons. Only thing is you need to be fairly familiar with the game to be aware of its easy mode.