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All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.
- Thread starter DonJorginho
- Start date
- News Spoilers
LocoCocoPops
Neo Member
I think you’ve misunderstood what I was getting at. The whole politics in my game malarkey. That’s the boohoo part.
Guilty_AI
Member
But she played with dogs! And helped saving a mother Zebra!!! Can't you see how good and relatable she is!?
She's also afraid of heights, she has weaknesses!!! Such depth and complexity!
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S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
MiguelItUp
Member
I still love that people that haven't said the game is a 4/5, 5/5, 9/10, or 10/10 are basically labeled as someone that's just "following the hate trend." 
Hayabusabruh
Member
It seems that when they said "you think you know, but you don't", that they didn't know how much was actually leaked. Lol. It's Still the best game I've ever played. Nothing looks or plays like this. No game can match this in detail or emotions. The camera work And cinematography are on another level. I hate sjw crap more than anyone, but you have to respect the craft and work that went into this.
xrnzaaas
Member
Nah, she has good muscles in the upper arm, but the lower arm still looks feminine (aka thinner). Abby simply has (ripped) man's arms in the game. Not to mention the woman in this photo looks fit overall, not 'big' like Abby.I low key think I found her body model at Dicks sporting goods today.
Jon Neu
Banned
She tried to not kill the pregnant woman and Owen, but they attacked her. She tried to not kill Nora.
She killed the people she needed to kill to get to Abby. That was her goal.
Ellie showed remorse, Abby didn’t.
It seems like Ellie story was written by more competent people than Abbies one.
There's much more subtlety in her flashbacks and reactions.
Don’t understand all the people saying Abby was just a psychopath with no reason for being violent. For a start I hated Abby not because she’s a bad character but because of my loyalty to Joel and Ellie. I always wanted Ellie to beat Abby and was gutted she doesn’t kill her in Los Angeles but cmon to say she has “no reason” to be angry and violent isn’t true is it. Joel kills her dad, and also dooms humanity forever in the process of saving Ellie. Even I hated Joel at the end of the first game but obviously over more playthroughs you just love the game so much you don’t care what he did.
Abby was absolutely a formidable opponent/antagonist so much so I honestly expected her to kill Ellie so at the end I was just glad that didn’t happen. Never before have I felt an antagonist is so strong they’ll actually win in the end. I always expect the heroes to win but this game had me doubting it right up until Ellie wins the feud on points rather than knockout.
I also much preferred Abby to the annoying pregnant woman who steals her boyfriend and gets shot by Ellie. This moment delighted me. Her campaign was brilliant and I know she wasn’t that likeable and looked funny, but that was an incredible campaign. If that was the DLC people would be saying it was the best DLC of all time.
Abby was absolutely a formidable opponent/antagonist so much so I honestly expected her to kill Ellie so at the end I was just glad that didn’t happen. Never before have I felt an antagonist is so strong they’ll actually win in the end. I always expect the heroes to win but this game had me doubting it right up until Ellie wins the feud on points rather than knockout.
I also much preferred Abby to the annoying pregnant woman who steals her boyfriend and gets shot by Ellie. This moment delighted me. Her campaign was brilliant and I know she wasn’t that likeable and looked funny, but that was an incredible campaign. If that was the DLC people would be saying it was the best DLC of all time.
sobaka770
Banned
Abby is certainly not a psychopath lol. She is scarred by her dad's death as shown in her flashbacks. It's also down that her killing Joel didn't bring her satisfaction as the flashbacks continue. She only wanted to kill Joel and nobody else, that's not a psychopath.
She lets the others go, only killing Joel. At the end she lets Ellie and Dina go even though they murdered all her friends. From her perspective Ellie is unhinged and it makes total sense she'd wanna do to Dina what Ellie did to her pregnant friend, how is she supposed to know that Ellie was remorseful and didn't kill them in cold blood?
You have to see it from character perspective not from player omniscient point of view.
She lets the others go, only killing Joel. At the end she lets Ellie and Dina go even though they murdered all her friends. From her perspective Ellie is unhinged and it makes total sense she'd wanna do to Dina what Ellie did to her pregnant friend, how is she supposed to know that Ellie was remorseful and didn't kill them in cold blood?
You have to see it from character perspective not from player omniscient point of view.
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It's called "good writing". But it's not present in that game...
sobaka770
Banned
What are you taking about? Of course it's good writing!
Characters acting based on their own known information and staying in character is by definition good writing, otherwise it's a plot hole. Abby doesn't know Ellie, she only knows she killed her lover and his pregnant wife. Her stopping immediately after Ellie said Dina is pregnant would be bad writing cause the bitch murdered her pregnant friend, why would she want to spare Ellie's?
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What Abbie knows is a result of the script. I.e. bad writing remains bad.
sobaka770
Banned
That's just circlical thought and not an argument at all. Everything that happens is a result of a script in any book, movie, videogame. You can't just label the writing bad and start off from there to make a point.
Bad writing is when there are a lot of easy escape hatches in the script that are deliberately set up by the script itself.
I.e. like when Ellie kills all the Abbie friends while not really aiming to kill them and it makes Abbie anger easy and convenient to explain.
And it happens not once, but at least 3 times over the game. Bad writing.
Jon Neu
Banned
Rambolina is just an emotionless killing machine who plays at the most basic level of the feminist power fantasy.
Then they clumsily try to give her some motivations to justify her actions and empathize with her while making us hate Joel, and they fail miserably in all of that. If you torture someone to death in front of his daughter and you don’t feel any remorse about it, yes, you are a psycho. If you are happy to torture people just for fun, yes, you are a psycho. Doesn’t matter how many dogs you pet or how many trans girls you adopt.
Abby is just a monster because the violent porn drama that Neil’s wanted needed her to be. And then he tries to come out of that hole by writting some shit to make you empathize with her, but you can’t have your extremely violent drama porn and relatable characters at the same time, not with this level of writing.
Yoboman
Member
I thought this was one of the ballsiest narratives I've experienced in a game. I went in without having been spoiled at all. I just finished it and I'm a bit of an emotional wreck
The decision to kill Joel off so early just infuriated me. I got put in the shoes of this character Abby, who after being saved by Joel turns around and tortures and kills him. I felt implicated, and it was so sudden it felt unearned. Who the fuck is this butch ass Abby?
First point where the game really made me feel the hatred narrative it was going for.
And slowly but surely the death of Joel would be the bedrock for the game. It added weight to every scene he was in. You saw the growth of Ellie and Joel together. Knowing that Joel would die, every happy moment or sad moment had more weight for me. It was like thinking of the things you regret saying to a passed loved one.
I felt justice hunting down Joels killers as Ellie. And then Druckmann had the balls to pull the rug from me again when it was all unravelling, this can't Abby was about to win. And now I'm playing as her?
I was ready to throw my controller out the window. I'm glad I didn't though. I played as Abby, first hating the experience. Then it got more and more interesting. Some truly incredible moments in her arc. As much as I just wanted to be back as Ellie, the quality of these moments kept surpassing themselves. The tower of clickers was one of the scariest levels I've had in a game. Closesly followed by the hospital basement. The scars island was insane.
I ended up feeling like I still wanted her dead, but I understood her completely as a character in a way that is rare for an antagonist
And then Druckmann does it again. I'm fighting Ellie as Abby. Are you kidding? I died like 5 times trying not to win. Its a pretty rare feeling in a game and I appreciated it even if it was so uncomfortable.
By the end I maintained this strange mix of emotions. I got to play as Abby one last time and for the first time I was excited to be in one of her parts. And when it came to the final fight it felt so earned, a true character story of both protagonist and antagonist really fundamentally built up in a way I can't compare. I both wanted Abby dead and didnt want her dead. I think I felt very much like Ellie did and that was a great success for story telling
As it all tied back to Joel and Ellie I was left bitter-sweet as the credits rolled just as the first game had left me
If you're avoiding this game because "SJW" I'd implore you to reconsider and go in with an open mind. Anything like thst is really just background. I'd call out pandering nonsense wherever I see it but that's not this game. Every narrative beat is earned
The decision to kill Joel off so early just infuriated me. I got put in the shoes of this character Abby, who after being saved by Joel turns around and tortures and kills him. I felt implicated, and it was so sudden it felt unearned. Who the fuck is this butch ass Abby?
First point where the game really made me feel the hatred narrative it was going for.
And slowly but surely the death of Joel would be the bedrock for the game. It added weight to every scene he was in. You saw the growth of Ellie and Joel together. Knowing that Joel would die, every happy moment or sad moment had more weight for me. It was like thinking of the things you regret saying to a passed loved one.
I felt justice hunting down Joels killers as Ellie. And then Druckmann had the balls to pull the rug from me again when it was all unravelling, this can't Abby was about to win. And now I'm playing as her?
I was ready to throw my controller out the window. I'm glad I didn't though. I played as Abby, first hating the experience. Then it got more and more interesting. Some truly incredible moments in her arc. As much as I just wanted to be back as Ellie, the quality of these moments kept surpassing themselves. The tower of clickers was one of the scariest levels I've had in a game. Closesly followed by the hospital basement. The scars island was insane.
I ended up feeling like I still wanted her dead, but I understood her completely as a character in a way that is rare for an antagonist
And then Druckmann does it again. I'm fighting Ellie as Abby. Are you kidding? I died like 5 times trying not to win. Its a pretty rare feeling in a game and I appreciated it even if it was so uncomfortable.
By the end I maintained this strange mix of emotions. I got to play as Abby one last time and for the first time I was excited to be in one of her parts. And when it came to the final fight it felt so earned, a true character story of both protagonist and antagonist really fundamentally built up in a way I can't compare. I both wanted Abby dead and didnt want her dead. I think I felt very much like Ellie did and that was a great success for story telling
As it all tied back to Joel and Ellie I was left bitter-sweet as the credits rolled just as the first game had left me
If you're avoiding this game because "SJW" I'd implore you to reconsider and go in with an open mind. Anything like thst is really just background. I'd call out pandering nonsense wherever I see it but that's not this game. Every narrative beat is earned
MiguelItUp
Member
She's not at all. It was a rumor/meme that got out of hand as a result of the leaks.
Also, here's another review for those that are interested in just hearing another perspective...
Also, also here's Jim's impressions. Totally on the money with me.
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Hayabusabruh
Member
The emotion in Abby's face when she says to Joel "you stupid old man". She looks like she is trying to to cry. That part always gets me.
Having finished the game really early this morning, I found that the story gets off to a slow start and is bogged down by some CW level teen drama and some story arrangement issues that the middle and last act succesfully made up for. Basically starts off with a 7 that hits a 9 when it gets going full steam.
Would have benefitted from editing to make Joel's fate ambiguous, maybe by fading to black when knocked out, and going to Abby's Seattle day 1 arc first after the prologue as if we're getting the background to her motivation. We then get led to believe the trespassers are Tommy and Joel until incongruities like the death of Abby's friends don't match expectations and surprise the player.
Knowing Joel dies injects the rageahol early in the narrative and immunizes players from empathizing with Abby too much. If you polled players as to who they'd like to win in a faceoff, Abby wouldn't stand a chance. The suspense sections in this game are top notch, though I wish there were more new enemy types. Stalkers that can speedily crawl across the walls or ceiling could have been interesting as would more alien like spore colonies like the Hotel with more horrific infected like the Hospital boss.
The sound and accesibility optons are best in class, with the accesibility options setting a standard that all games should follow or improve upon. The graphics are excellent and some of the best going, with the facial animations being real improvement from the first game. I'm not sure if its the setting itself that taints the issue but I found God of War, RDR2, and Horizon to have wowed me more often graphically but TLoU2 still is at the top end.
Gameplaywise its an iterative step forward from the previous game but could have been better tweaked. A dedicated jump button is underutilized and I wish there was a way to interact with light sources to impact visibility whether that is turning off a lamp or shooting a light out.
All the snowflakes reeeing about there being a trans character or butch design are being childish and silly. There is some intentional nose tweaking by the writers but nothing that is intrusive or hampers the plot. Abby's muscularity isn't any more jarring than the characters tanking wounds like John McClane or being immune to the cold.
Joel also went out as expected and as he ought to have expected over the years. Its a violent world and he got old and weak. Took up carving, coffee, settled in like his brother and got suckered because that's how it is when civilizations end.
In the end its a great game deserving of the 8's or 9's its been getting. The perfect 10's may be hype but folks calling this game terrible have some sort of agenda or are attention-seekers.
Would have benefitted from editing to make Joel's fate ambiguous, maybe by fading to black when knocked out, and going to Abby's Seattle day 1 arc first after the prologue as if we're getting the background to her motivation. We then get led to believe the trespassers are Tommy and Joel until incongruities like the death of Abby's friends don't match expectations and surprise the player.
Knowing Joel dies injects the rageahol early in the narrative and immunizes players from empathizing with Abby too much. If you polled players as to who they'd like to win in a faceoff, Abby wouldn't stand a chance. The suspense sections in this game are top notch, though I wish there were more new enemy types. Stalkers that can speedily crawl across the walls or ceiling could have been interesting as would more alien like spore colonies like the Hotel with more horrific infected like the Hospital boss.
The sound and accesibility optons are best in class, with the accesibility options setting a standard that all games should follow or improve upon. The graphics are excellent and some of the best going, with the facial animations being real improvement from the first game. I'm not sure if its the setting itself that taints the issue but I found God of War, RDR2, and Horizon to have wowed me more often graphically but TLoU2 still is at the top end.
Gameplaywise its an iterative step forward from the previous game but could have been better tweaked. A dedicated jump button is underutilized and I wish there was a way to interact with light sources to impact visibility whether that is turning off a lamp or shooting a light out.
All the snowflakes reeeing about there being a trans character or butch design are being childish and silly. There is some intentional nose tweaking by the writers but nothing that is intrusive or hampers the plot. Abby's muscularity isn't any more jarring than the characters tanking wounds like John McClane or being immune to the cold.
Joel also went out as expected and as he ought to have expected over the years. Its a violent world and he got old and weak. Took up carving, coffee, settled in like his brother and got suckered because that's how it is when civilizations end.
In the end its a great game deserving of the 8's or 9's its been getting. The perfect 10's may be hype but folks calling this game terrible have some sort of agenda or are attention-seekers.
joe_zazen
Member
what about those avoiding it because being emotionally manipulated by cheesey hamfisted corporate hack liberally using misery porn is ickey. Also, violence is actually a lot of fun in the game, so what is its message again?
I mean, love the game, thats great. People were bawling at an MCU movie. Hell, I cried when Buffy ‘died’. Cheesy writing can be emotional, esp when you are young. But you’ll have a hard time convincing the world that this is great writing that will endure. Game critics, otoh...well not all of them I guess. Vice’s Rob Zackny tore this game a new asshole, lol.
and abby killed people that she needed for many years too. but other she saved or spared at first so they not get in her way , when they still did , i duno i would be pissed too and angry, and in those moments you easily can loose your shit and do bad things. as there are not good characters there , and im cool with that , i would go and kill everyone too because i just wouldnt care , so its same for both characters for me , i would do that as they did when i played for them and maybe even more. but ending was great , i agreed with that conclusion too.
ellie didint wanter kill nora or owen , sure how else whe thought it could go ? she dies or they die thats how they roll there , so no other option really. noone there agreeing with peace like ok we cool , thats never happen in that world and ellie knew that.
MrS
Banned
Context: Ellie just murdered Abby's pregnant friend and another person that Abby is in love with. And Abby didn't go through with killing Dina or Ellie.
So who's the bad guy here?
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LaughingStock
Member
J3nga
Member
Joel gets killed early on and later the game tries to show to the player the other side of a coin like "look how I suffered, please feel sorry for me too", problem none of that worked as they thought it would, all the hate towards the Joel is so forced especially from the side characters, the only character I somewhat felt for was Mel.
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Ulysses 31
Member
Upon scrutiny, there's a line that reveals an ugly character side of her. She thinks Joel deserved worse but she wishes she wasn't a part of it.
Think about it. She wishes for the violence, just not around her.
J3nga
Member
Well, she did say that, but where's violence in that?
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Ulysses 31
Member
She's not doing the violence but she wishes more violence was done.
The violence is the way Joel got killed, she thinks he deserved an even worse death but she doesn't want to feel too bad about it so she doesn't want to be part of the violence. It's a position of a coward.
MiguelItUp
Member
Yup, and it's done poorly IMO. Especially with how the events are handled in the game, lol.
Birdo
Banned
Tomeru
Member
Joel is the reason there is no cure. Stands to reason that him being public enemy no1 for some people. So forced.
Umbral
Member
Yes. What we got here was flat. There are even parts of it that are just smooth like gray clay. It wasn’t scary looking at all. I couldn’t even tell what I was looking at until I opened it up in the model viewer.
My guess is they wanted to use the creature, but since the concept art was already out there in the first game’s art book they decided to come up with something new so it wasn’t expected. The downside is the concept art above is great and I’m sure they could have outdone it. Their art team is incredible but they failed on this one. Rat king was lame and I was really looking forward to it.
Edit: The stalker half of the rat king did look cool though. They never really give you a moment to look at it in-game. It moves fast enough that your only concern is gaining distance, so you don’t even see what you’re fighting. I was on edge before opening that ambulance door, but then I was like “that’s it?”
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Yoboman
Member
Why do you assume you're meant to feel sorry for her? The theme of the game is how far hate will drive you. She is not meant to be felt sorry for, she is a reflection of how bad Ellie could be if she falls further down the path of hate and revenge. And that revenge will just leave you hollow in the end
I enjoyed playing as Abby, I felt for her and understood her at moments, but always felt she had gone too far and should die.
Yoboman
Member
I dont think you have any clue what good writing is
What's going on with Ad hominem?
J3nga
Member
How are you not? It's obvious "we're gonna kill beloved protagonist, but we will give you so much to make you love this character by the end of the game that you'll forget everything. The whole Abby part is a giant filler that doesn't tie into the main theme of this game, gameplay doesn't evolve and force you to change your way playing and throwing the player out of comfort the zone. Abby doesn't look like she cares about the humanity, cure and what would it mean if not for Joel's actions. Yeah dad died which sucks, but I can still bench press and do bicep curls. So many missed opportunities and unnecessary things at the same time in this game IMO.
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Sleepwalker
Member
They went for shock value and it backfired. 7 years and millions of dollars to craft a story and this is what you come up with? I feel sorry for all the amazingly talented people that went through crunch and worked on the tech aspect of this game.
ZZZZ
Member
could be 1h, could be 3. Depends on how many times you die.
Yoboman
Member
The Last of Us has always been shades of grey. The characterisations are not there purely to make you like or hate them. Joel, Ellie, Abby and even minor characters.
Abbys journey was moving past revenge to redemption. Like Joel in the first game, coming to terms with the evil shit you had done and trying to rebuild in the emptiness. She is a reflection of both Joel and Ellie - the lengths hatred and revenge will drive you to, and that it will only engender more cycles of hate.
Joel was the character at the end of this redemption, he had found peace. Abby committed her revenge and was dealing with rebuilding, she went through life altering personal changes trying to find meaning. She abandoned the WLF as she grasped onto Lev and Yara in the same way Joel had grasped on to Ellie.
Ellie was stuck on her fixation with hate and revenge - never feeling complete until she gained revenge. The same way we see Abby fixated on it in flashbacks to her younger years. Both characters reject love while fixated on hate.
In the end Ellie was about to complete and continue the cycle of hate but it was her understanding of Joel that pulled her back. She didn't care for Abby, she was the one character who stayed her hand when it mattered most. Ellie finished the story as redeemable, not losing to the hatred, while Joel and Abby did not. She can still find love in herself while Abby, like Joel, will only find purpose in saving another
At least that's my take on it.
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