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[rofif]

It’s exactly the same as TLOU2.

Not at all.
Complaint with TLOU2 is that it was too long/badly paced.
Complaints with TLJ are totally different for me. I don't want to get into this. Especially not in this thread

 

[ZZZZ]

 

[rofif]

Oh I almost forgot. It's crazy to see what lust for revenge has turned Tommy into. It's a good message. He barely walks, he is a killer and it will never be enough for him. A trope but very well done

 

[sendit]

She tried to not kill the pregnant woman and Owen, but they attacked her. She tried to not kill Nora.

She killed the people she needed to kill to get to Abby. That was her goal.

Ellie showed remorse, Abby didn’t.

She didn't kill Ellie or Tommy, but they went after her. She was about to kill Dina, but spared her.

She tried to save 2 children from the opposing faction. That was her goal.

Abby showed remorse. Ellie didn't.

/s

Are you trying to push an agenda?

 

[realcool]

“If it was you or me, Joel would be halfway to Washington by now.”


*goes all the way to Santa Barbara and rescues Abby and her sidequest*

 

[Jon Neu]

Not at all.
Complaint with TLOU2 is that it was too long/badly paced.
Complaints with TLJ are totally different for me. I don't want to get into this. Especially not in this thread

Yes, both are pretty much the same. Very anti fandom and self loathing stories with a diverse cast, bad written scripts and they bet all their money on twists and subverting of expectations.

She didn't kill Ellie or Tommy, but they went after her. She was about to kill Dina, but spared her.

She not wanting to kill Ellie or Tommy is precisely stupid as fuck. Another cheap attempt at trying to build her as a grey character and emphatize with her when in reality she is a total emotionless and remorseless psycho who tortured Joel to death and killed Jesse without any problem.

If the script had any coherence whatsoever, she would have killed Ellie, Tommy and Dina because they are just a bunch of strangers trying to kill her, but the plot had to continue, so let’s make her retarded once again.

 

[PanzerAzel]

They went for shock value and it backfired. 7 years and millions of dollars to craft a story and this is what you come up with? I feel sorry for all the amazingly talented people that went through crunch and worked on the tech aspect of this game.

I don’t. For all of TLoU II’s faults, technical ain’t one of them. It’s a remarkable technical achievement and I’d kill to be able to put that on my resume.

It's because of out of context leaks and negativity. And it's the only game where they make you play the "bad guy" and it works. It was such a rollercoaster of emotions for me.
Only other games that made me cry this generation were the last guardian and death stranding

Didn’t work for me. At all.

Once Abby stoved Joel’s head in, it didn’t matter how many dogs I played with, Ferris wheels I jumped off of, aquariums I toured, had sex with my friend, or how many trans kids I saved. Nothing could overcome my dislike of her at that point. Perhaps had she earned the right to kill Joel by having me do that shit BEFORE she rearranged his brain matter with a 9 iron, I’d feel differently. But you know you’ve eseriously fucked up narratively when players literally don’t want to continue the game when they realize they have to play as this character after that fact.

I think it also didn’t help because Abby, on her own merits, really isn’t that compelling or endearing of a character. Even had she not murdered Joel, there’s nothing I found about her all that relatable or deep. What made Joel so interesting was the fact that we witnessed him losing a daughter right off the bat, so much of his character’s appeal was founded and built on the player’s empathy and sympathy for something good, something borne of love and loss. Everything we did as him from that point on, right or wrong, we viewed through that lens and understanding. With Abby though, we’re launching off with her on a basis of hate and vengeance. It’s close to the first thing we see of her that is at all meaningful, and hate is something that most people don’t relate to (or don’t want to), especially when it’s absent context, and especially when she kills a beloved character.

First impressions are important. I’ll always remember Joel as a loving man who began by losing his daughter, Ellie as a young, innocent naive girl who was curious about a lost world, and Abby? As a hateful, vindictive brute. She’s not interesting, likable, her entire character has been predicated upon hate, and I hope this is the last we see of her.

 

[rofif]

I don’t. For all of TLoU II’s faults, technical ain’t one of them. It’s a remarkable technical achievement and I’d kill to be able to put that on my resume.

Didn’t work for me. At all.

Once Abby stoved Joel’s head in, it didn’t matter how many dogs I played with, Ferris wheels I jumped off of, aquariums I toured, had sex with my friend, or how many trans kids I saved. Nothing could overcome my dislike of her at that point. Perhaps had she earned the right to kill Joel by having me do that shit BEFORE she rearranged his brain matter with a 9 iron, I’d feel differently. But you know you’ve eseriously fucked up narratively when players literally don’t want to continue the game when they realize they have to play as this character after that fact.

I think it also didn’t help because Abby, on her own merits, really isn’t that compelling or endearing of a character. Even had she not murdered Joel, there’s nothing I found about her all that relatable or deep. What made Joel so interesting was the fact that we witnessed him losing a daughter right off the bat, so much of his character’s appeal was founded and built on the player’s empathy and sympathy for something good, something borne of love and loss. Everything we did as him from that point on, right or wrong, we viewed through that lens and understanding. With Abby though, we’re launching off with her on a basis of hate and vengeance. It’s close to the first thing we see of her that is at all meaningful, and hate is something that most people don’t relate to (or don’t want to), especially when it’s absent context, and especially when she kills a beloved character.

First impressions are important. I’ll always remember Joel as a loving man who began by losing his daughter, Ellie as a young, innocent naive girl who was curious about a lost world, and Abby? As a hateful, vindictive brute. She’s not interesting, likable, her entire character has been predicated upon hate, and I hope this is the last we see of her.

You will end like Ellie and Joel with all that hate
I think her segment should not be playable in the snow starting area.
Abby is a flawed character who made bad choices and she gets punished for thisM Morethan enough

 

[PanzerAzel]

You will end like Ellie and Joel with all that hate
I think her segment should not be playable in the snow starting area.
Abby is a flawed character who made bad choices and she gets punished for thisM Morethan enough

Nah I don’t hate Abby, but I don’t like her and find her a poor character. Mostly due to how Druckmann chooses to introduce her and then attempts to retroactively change our feelings towards her by trying to humanize her for half the game.

What we essentially get is unsubstantiated hate murdering substantiated love, and then trying desperately to excuse and justify that hate through petty and superficial plot contrivances. It comes off as patronizing and condescending writing.

 

[Dick Jones]

Omg what an ending. That's unexpected seeing how the game started but... Poor Abby holy shit. BTW. The fireflies are not real in santa Barbara? It's was jus the slavers bait?
And what is the assumption with Dina and Ellie? Jackson?
I will need some good YT video to think about all of this

The start menu for new game plus shows the sun shining on the island and the boat tied up. I took this to mean Abby and Lev made it to Catalina Island and the Fireflies were there. You would keep the Fireflies graffiti up if it was bait, having rattlers graffiti up wouldn't make sense.

 

[Jon Neu]

You will end like Ellie and Joel with all that hate
I think her segment should not be playable in the snow starting area.
Abby is a flawed character who made bad choices and she gets punished for thisM Morethan enough

She is definitely a flawed character, that’s for sure.

But she doesn’t get punished enough and she doesn’t feel remorse at all for what she did.

 

[Dick Jones]

I watched the Alannah Pearce video with 4 other reviewers discussing TLOU2. Disclaimer I enjoyed the last of us part 2.

The two who gave it 5/10 are stupid as fuck. The neckbeard claimed there was too much happening and cited the fuel search part on Day 1 as the search through the city was so long for him he forgot why they needed fuel. The mind boggles, it wasn't rocket science with the plot at that stage. The blonde kept saying I or me when talking about games and couldn't understand the motivation of the characters revenge and mockingly called it daddy issues. She then says she has an estranged relationship with her father and she would not be motivated if she saw her father murdered. Extra points for calling Hamlet a Shakespeare Handbook and not understanding the motivation comparisons of TLOU2 and Hamlet.

I had to stop watching. Anyone find a good spoilercast?

 

[Madflavor]

Jeremy Jahns put out his review. He wasn’t impressed with the story.

 

[HotPocket69]

Really? He had 2 scenes

So?

 

[psorcerer]

I mean, what the fuck? Ellie's story is SUCH A DRAG, it's too fucking long and has little to no story.

That's because "revenge is pointless". (but not in the Abbie's case, of course)

 

[psorcerer]

Abby is a flawed character who made bad choices and she gets punished for thisM Morethan enough

She doesn't though. At all.

 

[nyr88nyg]

Ellie isn’t the same character at all in this game. Cuckman turned her into a shit head in an effort to get us to side with Abby. What a scumbag.

Neil thought the Joel scene would be his “Red Wedding”, but failed miserably. You’re not GRRM, dude. It wasn’t earned at all, and certainly didn’t make up for it later.

 

[Halo is Back]

Context: Ellie just murdered Abby's pregnant friend and another person that Abby is in love with. And Abby didn't go through with killing Dina or Ellie.

So who's the bad guy here?

But thats is why I don't like Ellie. Even after this confrontation, months laters when she is living with Dina she STILL decides to go after Abby. So much so, she is willing to throw her relationship away with Dina juts to keep seeking petty revenge. If the game ended there it would have been a MUCH better ending.

1. The game gets to satisfy the theme of ending the cycle of revenge, and learning to forgive.

2. It would still stay in character with Ellie and not give us on of the most retard endings I have ever seen.

3. Game would have ended on a positive note, while Ellie still gets to learn the lesson that she almost lost everything.


People keep talking they did Joel dirty, but my grievance lies with how they done Ellie.

 

[iorek21]

That's because "revenge is pointless". (but not in the Abbie's case, of course)

Yep, and it makes no sense to be like that

Literally every revenge story in gaming has more narrative than Ellie’s part. Just look at most Assassin’s Creed games, each plot that features revenge also includes character growth, personal journeys ups and downs, interactions; the same can be said for Far Cry 3, Watch Dogs 1.

Hell, even story light games like Sekiro deals with revenge in better ways: characters face important journeys and decisions, the rivalry between Genechiro and Sekiro is developed subtlety but nicely as well.

Even Ghost of Tsushima, which isn’t even released yet, seems to deal with revenge plot in a better way than TLOU2.

I sincerely don’t know what happened in Ellie’s part for it to be so hollow

 

[rofif]

She is definitely a flawed character, that’s for sure.

But she doesn’t get punished enough and she doesn’t feel remorse at all for what she did.

Whaaaat? Not enough punished? Have we played the same game?

 

[psorcerer]

I sincerely don’t know what happened in Ellie’s part for it to be so hollow

Author wanted to make Abbie's adventure look "better", that's why Ellie's part was so fucked up.
Overall the whole game shits on OG TLOU just to push the script of TLOU2.

 

[rofif]

Author wanted to make Abbie's adventure look "better", that's why Ellie's part was so fucked up.
Overall the whole game shits on OG TLOU just to push the script of TLOU2.

It does not shit on original tlou.
Ellie was 14yo kid in the first game. Nobody is the same as a teen and adult. She is entering adulthood, her character changes and she developed and makes mistakes. Her character is very believable. She carried on the strength from trip with Joel but only strength. Joel is still the same. Just more somber as he settled down. Him and Tommy are now old. None of what happens is so weird or impossible.

What lore was there supposed to be carried from first game? Joel and Tommy are the same. Ellie is not a stupid naive kid anymore but flawed adult.

 

[psorcerer]

It does not shit on original tlou.

It does. I'm talking about script not characters.

What lore was there supposed to be carried from first game?

1. Developing vaccine is at least 50/50 if not less chance.
2. Fireflies are dying, they could not save themselves by a working vaccine, even if they did develop it.
3. Doctor was actively refusing to give up Ellie and was killed because of that.
4. If you don't kill the doctor, Joel gets killed by the Fireflies that enter the room.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

It does. I'm talking about script not characters.



1. Developing vaccine is at least 50/50 if not less chance.
2. Fireflies are dying, they could not save themselves by a working vaccine, even if they did develop it.
3. Doctor was actively refusing to give up Ellie and was killed because of that.
4. If you don't kill the doctor, Joel gets killed by the Fireflies that enter the room.

1. When is that stated?
2. What?
3. He held a scalpel up at a man carrying guns and was shaking as he did so.
4. What?? Like seriously what?

 

[Sethbacca]

So I finally hit the point in the game last night where Yara spends a whopping maybe 2 minutes discussing why she and Lev left Haven and that Lev is trans. The people claiming that it was thrown in their face and pushed pushed pushed are the biggest fucking snowflakes in existence. A handful of lines of dialogue in a 25+ hour game. GTFO of here.

BUT MAH PUSHING DER SJW ALPHABET AGENDA! CUCKMAN GRARRRRRR!

 

[rofif]

1. When is that stated?
2. What?
3. He held a scalpel up at a man carrying guns and was shaking as he did so.
4. What?? Like seriously what?

He is grasping at straws.
I wanted to watch some video discussing ending spoilers but it is very hard to find the video liking and understanding the ending. All I see are videos how awful the game is and whatever with some exceptions. And the comment sections even on good videos is a nightmare of people stating "worst ending ever, worst game ever" who clearly have not played the game.
The game only came out last friday and it's extremely long. I doubt many have finished it already

 

[psorcerer]

1. When is that stated?
2. What?
3. He held a scalpel up at a man carrying guns and was shaking as he did so.
4. What?? Like seriously what?

1. That's what logic says.
2. That's what happened.
3. So what? He could have stayed out of this. But he was almost literally saying "over my dead body". He got it.
4. That's what happens if you don't kill the doctor. Try it.

 

[Ulysses 31]

So I finally hit the point in the game last night where Yara spends a whopping maybe 2 minutes discussing why she and Lev left Haven and that Lev is trans. The people claiming that it was thrown in their face and pushed pushed pushed are the biggest fucking snowflakes in existence. A handful of lines of dialogue in a 25+ hour game. GTFO of here.

BUT MAH PUSHING DER SJW ALPHABET AGENDA! CUCKMAN GRARRRRRR!

There's also all the deadnaming so there's more than those 2 min you noticed.

 

[Sethbacca]

There's also all the deadnaming so there's more than those 2 min you noticed.

Which is all in service to providing backstory to the characters of Lev and Yara. I can't think of a single thing that has been forced and not part of the storyline to this point. It's not like they took a side trip to Big Gay Al's Boat off the haven marina.

 

[Jon Neu]

It's not like they took a side trip to Big Gay Al's Boat off the haven marina.

Yeah, you just have to forget the lead of the game and her lesbian romantic story, her bigot sandwich scene, the antagonist being the epithome of the feminist power fantasy and the creator of the game himself outlining how his games have a political agenda based on third wave feminism and Anita Sarkeesian just on character design alone (it shows).

If you ignore all of that, then yes, it’s not like they took a trip to Big Gay Al’s Boat.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Which is all in service to providing backstory to the characters of Lev and Yara. I can't think of a single thing that has been forced and not part of the storyline to this point. It's not like they took a side trip to Big Gay Al's Boat off the haven marina.

Well, technically, it's all forced because the story only plays out in one way. I think people have more of an issue that the trans stuff is too on the nose/unsubtle rather than just being there.

 

[Steve.1981]

Joel and Tommy are the same. Ellie is not a stupid naive kid anymore but flawed adult.

I don't think Ellie was ever a stupid naive kid in part 1 (or Left Behind, for that matter). She was whip-smart, had a fire in her belly & stepped up when Joel was injured. I really don't recognise that girl in the mopey sad sack trudging around Seattle in part 2.

Maybe Tommy's the same. I don't think I saw enough of him in part 1 to really judge him as a character. But Joel? Eh, it's debatable. Take his now infamous death scene, for example. I'm not saying that the guy was flawless & never made a mistake, but for me he wouldn't just walk into that house with the WLF without even showing a hint of suspicion. He was smarter than that. Doesn't matter how he ended up outside that house with those people. He was street smart, as the old folk say where I'm from, & wouldn't just walk in there without a second thought. Give me even one little exchange of dialogue where he looks at their gear, frowns, lays a hand on his gun & says "Who are you? What are you doing here?"

For me, that was Joel. You could even have Abby, or one of her friends, show some charm & talk him around. "Oh don't worry! We mean no harm. We were making our way to [location] & got caught out by the weather/infected. We're just sheltering here for the night"

Then show Joel relaxing his guard, a little bit, enough to allow one of them to cold-cock him with a rifle-butt, or something. I'd buy that.

I know some people would probably accuse me of nitpicking here, but I probably value execution of an idea more than the idea itself. For me, it's the execution that breathes life into the thing. I think the writers on part 2 paid too little attention to how they executed their ideas. I think this is partly why I struggle to recognise the characters that I knew & loved in their part 2 clothing.

Another little tangential example I just thought of as I'm writing this. Ellie & Jessie find an old comic book store at one point. Remember how Joel collected comics for Ellie in part 1? Ellie finds an old arcade at one point, with the game "The Turning". Remember that one, from Bill's town in part 1?

For a minute, in both instances, I half expected a little optional dialogue or scene where Ellie reacts to these things that we remember from her journey with Joel. Maybe she would pick up a comic & smile, like the girl in part 1, for just a second. Or just stop & look at that arcade game. I half expected the triangle button prompt to pop up on the screen each time. But it never did. I don't think the writers were interested in that stuff. Too concerned with their big ideas about cycles of violence & such.

But this is in danger of becoming a stream of consciousness, so I'll stop.

 

[Jon Neu]

I don't think Ellie was ever a stupid naive kid in part 1 (or Left Behind, for that matter). She was whip-smart, had a fire in her belly & stepped up when Joel was injured. I really don't recognise that girl in the mopey sad sack trudging around Seattle in part 2.

Maybe Tommy's the same. I don't think I saw enough of him in part 1 to really judge him as a character. But Joel? Eh, it's debatable. Take his now infamous death scene, for example. I'm not saying that the guy was flawless & never made a mistake, but for me he wouldn't just walk into that house with the WLF without even showing a hint of suspicion. He was smarter than that. Doesn't matter how he ended up outside that house with those people. He was street smart, as the old folk say where I'm from, & wouldn't just walk in there without a second thought. Give me even one little exchange of dialogue where he looks at their gear, frowns, lays a hand on his gun & says "Who are you? What are you doing here?"

For me, that was Joel. You could even have Abby, or one of her friends, show some charm & talk him around. "Oh don't worry! We mean no harm. We were making our way to [location] & got caught out by the weather/infected. We're just sheltering here for the night"

Then show Joel relaxing his guard, a little bit, enough to allow one of them to cold-cock him with a rifle-butt, or something. I'd buy that.

The hell do you want dude? An actually cohesive and well written script?

 

[psorcerer]

Yeah, you just have to forget the lead of the game and her lesbian romantic story, her bigot sandwich scene, the antagonist being the epithome of the feminist power fantasy and the creator of the game himself outlining how his games have a political agenda based on third wave feminism and Anita Sarkeesian just on character design alone (it shows).

Actually I didn't have any problems with that. Probably the only totally cringey moment was the "lesbian idyll" at the farm house. Because it was so badly directed.
And I personally know women that are a lot like Abbie, maybe not as ripped and packed, but that angry face, bulkiness, solving everything through force, and so on.
Like I do believe.

 

[Steve.1981]

I think I've actually cycled through the 5 stages of grief, like, 3 times since those leaks came out.

I'm somewhere between sadness & acceptance now. Again.

 

[Ulysses 31]

 

[LaughingStock]

It does not shit on original tlou.
Ellie was 14yo kid in the first game. Nobody is the same as a teen and adult. She is entering adulthood, her character changes and she developed and makes mistakes. Her character is very believable. She carried on the strength from trip with Joel but only strength. Joel is still the same. Just more somber as he settled down. Him and Tommy are now old. None of what happens is so weird or impossible.

What lore was there supposed to be carried from first game? Joel and Tommy are the same. Ellie is not a stupid naive kid anymore but flawed adult.

Now Tommy and Joel are the ones who are stupid and naive.

 

[Roni]

"I care about what you put in my brain at the beginning."

LOL, this says so much...

 

[BGs]

I know that many will tell me that I have not understood the purpose of the game, what it intends to convey, that the protagonists are all (as in Game of Thrones), etc ... But no. All that I understand perfectly. But still, I don't like it. And I don't like what I have experienced. It has brought out the worst feelings in me. And that is a success for ND, but for me it is not something that I can value positively.

So I have rated the game with a "0". Because, although technically it is a "10" game, my experience with the game has been disastrous. A stab in the back. More disappointing than the ending of Lost or Game of Thrones. I think it has been the most disappointing experience of my video game life. I hate having played this game. Although I don't regret having paid to play it.

As an individual game it is a masterpiece. But, for me, coming from the love of the first part, this second part is an absolute disappointment at the level of experience.

It is certainly not a "fair" assessment, as the work done is exceptional. But what you end up experiencing is a story, and if at the beginning of the story they destroy your hopes and your dreams accumulated in the more than 5 years of waiting between one part and another, it is impossible for the experience to be satisfactory. Also, if you're forced to play half the story with a character you deeply hate, your bodily and spiritual sensation is disgusting. Teenr that playing more than 20 hours with a character you wish his death makes you do not make the slightest effort to stay alive and that makes you feel more like leaving the command than taking it.

It is a game that in my opinion is very politicized. Technically unpolluted, but aimed at satisfying an ideological sector of the population.

Life is already shit in itself, I do not feel like playing a video game to have a bad time bodily (nausea, hatred, revulsion, etc). I'm sick of fashion now being "eliminating" the protagonists because that "sells".

I guess it is part of my nature, I am a person who does not like to go to the movies to see "drama". I don't like paying money to have a bad time. Life is already hard in itself so I have to expose myself to movies that make me feel bad. Similarly, I like to play games that don't end so badly.

Perhaps the worst thing about the game on a personal level is being forced to do things that I don't want to do, with a character that I don't want to control and in circumstances that I don't want to accept. I think that should have been approached differently.

Getting your favorite character killed early in the game would have a pass. You have to take revenge. That based on that "demonize" your other favorite character would also have a pass. But forcing you to play a hated character halfway through the game, I didn't like it at all. A character that all you want is for him to die in terrible suffering. But being forced to make decisions with that hated character that involves physical and psychological damage to your favorite character is vomiting and repulsive. And the worst is the deceptive advertising of the trailers, adding scenes from the game with characters changed to mislead. If I buy a TombRaider game I want to play with LaraCroft, it is the least I expect. If the writer wants to kill LaraCroft he can do it at the end, but what you can't do is kill her at the beginning and force yourself to play as her killer during the game. I have not bought a game from the LaraCroft killer, I have bought a LaraCroft game and this is the one I want to play with.

For all this I feel cheated. As a fan of the game.

As a game I could have enjoyed breaking with the past, but then for me it makes no sense to play it.

The game is a narrative achievement, but at the same time it is a failure (for me), since it makes me want to leave the command more than to continue playing this unjust and despicable atrocity.

In summary, my assessment is that I would rather not have played it (at the narrative level), although I am glad I had played it (at the technical level).

But I repeat, and I want to make it clear, professionally, on a technical level, I can only take my hat off and praise the technical portent that this game has. Artistically it is impeccable, especially to work on a hardware from 6 years ago (approx). There are parts where you could go through a next-gen starter game.

So, for my part, NaughtyDog, on the one hand I congratulate you, as a professional, and on the other hand, as a user, I spit on your face and I hope that in the future you think less about making society happy and more about making users happy. .

Logically this "criticism" is to undo me, since no one from ND is going to read it, and if they read it it will not matter to them, since they know that they have created a masterpiece. Masterpiece that for me has already disappeared from my mind.

There will only be one TLOU in my heart.

 

[HaveButOneLife]

I wish I could put my money where my mouth is and not support this game but my family members have been waiting 6 years for it so I'm going to buy it for them. I personally can't wait for the gameplay, I'll be ignoring the story.

 

[Ulysses 31]

"I care about what you put in my brain at the beginning."

LOL, this says so much...

"I was sad, when I unlocked a new tree (as Abby)."

 

[LaughingStock]

"I was sad, when I unlocked a new tree (as Abby)."

AKA "Fridge Bitch"

 

[Roni]

I know that many will tell me that I have not understood the purpose of the game, what it intends to convey, that the protagonists are all (as in Game of Thrones), etc ... But no. All that I understand perfectly. But still, I don't like it. And I don't like what I have experienced. It has brought out the worst feelings in me. And that is a success for ND, but for me it is not something that I can value positively.

So I have rated the game with a "0". Because, although technically it is a "10" game, my experience with the game has been disastrous. A stab in the back. More disappointing than the ending of Lost or Game of Thrones. I think it has been the most disappointing experience of my video game life. I hate having played this game. Although I don't regret having paid to play it.

As an individual game it is a masterpiece. But, for me, coming from the love of the first part, this second part is an absolute disappointment at the level of experience.

It is certainly not a "fair" assessment, as the work done is exceptional. But what you end up experiencing is a story, and if at the beginning of the story they destroy your hopes and your dreams accumulated in the more than 5 years of waiting between one part and another, it is impossible for the experience to be satisfactory. Also, if you're forced to play half the story with a character you deeply hate, your bodily and spiritual sensation is disgusting. Teenr that playing more than 20 hours with a character you wish his death makes you do not make the slightest effort to stay alive and that makes you feel more like leaving the command than taking it.

It is a game that in my opinion is very politicized. Technically unpolluted, but aimed at satisfying an ideological sector of the population.

Life is already shit in itself, I do not feel like playing a video game to have a bad time bodily (nausea, hatred, revulsion, etc). I'm sick of fashion now being "eliminating" the protagonists because that "sells".

I guess it is part of my nature, I am a person who does not like to go to the movies to see "drama". I don't like paying money to have a bad time. Life is already hard in itself so I have to expose myself to movies that make me feel bad. Similarly, I like to play games that don't end so badly.

Perhaps the worst thing about the game on a personal level is being forced to do things that I don't want to do, with a character that I don't want to control and in circumstances that I don't want to accept. I think that should have been approached differently.

Getting your favorite character killed early in the game would have a pass. You have to take revenge. That based on that "demonize" your other favorite character would also have a pass. But forcing you to play a hated character halfway through the game, I didn't like it at all. A character that all you want is for him to die in terrible suffering. But being forced to make decisions with that hated character that involves physical and psychological damage to your favorite character is vomiting and repulsive. And the worst is the deceptive advertising of the trailers, adding scenes from the game with characters changed to mislead. If I buy a TombRaider game I want to play with LaraCroft, it is the least I expect. If the writer wants to kill LaraCroft he can do it at the end, but what you can't do is kill her at the beginning and force yourself to play as her killer during the game. I have not bought a game from the LaraCroft killer, I have bought a LaraCroft game and this is the one I want to play with.

For all this I feel cheated. As a fan of the game.

As a game I could have enjoyed breaking with the past, but then for me it makes no sense to play it.

The game is a narrative achievement, but at the same time it is a failure (for me), since it makes me want to leave the command more than to continue playing this unjust and despicable atrocity.

In summary, my assessment is that I would rather not have played it (at the narrative level), although I am glad I had played it (at the technical level).

But I repeat, and I want to make it clear, professionally, on a technical level, I can only take my hat off and praise the technical portent that this game has. Artistically it is impeccable, especially to work on a hardware from 6 years ago (approx). There are parts where you could go through a next-gen starter game.

So, for my part, NaughtyDog, on the one hand I congratulate you, as a professional, and on the other hand, as a user, I spit on your face and I hope that in the future you think less about making society happy and more about making users happy. .

Logically this "criticism" is to undo me, since no one from ND is going to read it, and if they read it it will not matter to them, since they know that they have created a masterpiece. Masterpiece that for me has already disappeared from my mind.

There will only be one TLOU in my heart.

That's the conundrum, isn't it? If the game's objective is to make you feel complex and nuanced feelings and it achieves that, is the game really a failure?

For me, it seems the game worked a little too well for you, to the point where you actually hate it for making you feel those complex and nuanced feelings. Like you said it yourself, most storytellers at ND would count that as a win. The real defeat would be indifference.

There's a recent interview where Neil Druckmann mentions specifically the effect that playing against characters you like has on a person, because it makes you second guess your actions. And I think that's kind of awesome....

While playing as Ellie and assuming Abby was with the WLF, we murdered soldier after soldier when they threatened our lives, but once we're playing against Ellie, it suddenly makes us think about the effect that pulling that trigger or doing that takedown will have.

That's simply brilliant... That's games being used to communicate something that's nearly impossible to pull of with words.

That's the future for the medium.

 

[BGs]

That's the conundrum, isn't it? If the game's objective is to make you feel complex and nuanced feelings and it achieves that, is the game really a failure?

For me, it seems the game worked a little too well for you, to the point where you actually hate it for making you feel those complex and nuanced feelings. Like you said it yourself, most storytellers at ND would count that as a win. The real defeat would be indifference.

There's a recent interview where Neil Druckmann mentions specifically the effect that playing against characters you like has on a person, because it makes you second guess your actions. And I think that's kind of awesome....

While playing as Ellie and assuming Abby was with the WLF, we murdered soldier after soldier when they threatened our lives, but once we're playing against Ellie, it suddenly makes us think about the effect that pulling that trigger or doing that takedown will have.

That's simply brilliant... That's games being used to communicate something that's nearly impossible to pull of with words.

That's the future for the medium.

Logically it is not a game failure. On the contrary.

It is only on a personal level. It is difficult to make a narrative criticism of it without taking into account the feelings. I guess I wasn't ready for something so crudely realistic.

It is more than a movie you watch, it is the next step, to play that story. The ideal for me would have been to decide the steps of my story.

Fffff ... I know, it is difficult to criticize and praise at the same time. I suppose that what I feel is the product of anger or rage, although the more I think about it, the more incredible this "game" seems to me.

It is brilliant.

Although I wish the story had been different. Happy ending. The "good" alive and the "bad" dead. Etc ... Although it is clear that in this world "good" and "evil" is subjective to the interests of each individual.

 

[Roni]

Logically it is not a game failure. On the contrary.

It is only on a personal level. It is difficult to make a narrative criticism of it without taking into account the feelings. I guess I wasn't ready for something so crudely realistic.

It is more than a movie you watch, it is the next step, to play that story. The ideal for me would have been to decide the steps of my story.

Fffff ... I know, it is difficult to criticize and praise at the same time. I suppose that what I feel is the product of anger or rage, although the more I think about it, the more incredible this "game" seems to me.

It is brilliant.

Although I wish the story had been different. Happy ending. The "good" alive and the "bad" dead. Etc ... Although it is clear that in this world "good" and "evil" is subjective to the interests of each individual.

You're one of the most sensible critics of the game I've seen so far. I can respect where you're coming from because you definitely seem to respect where I'm coming from.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

1. That's what logic says.
2. That's what happened.
3. So what? He could have stayed out of this. But he was almost literally saying "over my dead body". He got it.
4. That's what happens if you don't kill the doctor. Try it.

1. Logic states a theoretical anti-spore-zombie vaccine has a 50% chance? Even then 50% is pretty good when we're talking the entire human race.

2. Prove it.

3. "almost literally" that's a new one, Joel "almost literally" killed someone he didn't need to kill especially once he'd disarmed him.

4. The surgeon is killed in a cut-scene, you have no control over it. The other two doctors don't need to be killed and Marlena is also killed via cutscene.

 

[Steve.1981]

There's a recent interview where Neil Druckmann mentions specifically the effect that playing against characters you like has on a person, because it makes you second guess your actions. And I think that's kind of awesome....

While playing as Ellie and assuming Abby was with the WLF, we murdered soldier after soldier when they threatened our lives, but once we're playing against Ellie, it suddenly makes us think about the effect that pulling that trigger or doing that takedown will have.

This is interesting. Thought provoking.

I haven't reached that part of the game yet. I never even thought about how I would feel to be fighting Ellie.

 

[TissueBox]

She doesn't though. At all.

UHH dude, all her friends are dead, she had former friends trying to kill her, and she was left to die on a stake and then had to fight a bloodthirsty near unkillable survivalist with an inch of her life left.

It's something she'll be carrying for the rest of her life iyam.

 

[rofif]

What is going on. Look at the like/dislike ratio on gamespot spoiler review.
I feel almost exactly as the reviewer and she nails it. Abby storyline is essential to the game and to making Ellie realize what she has become. It's brilliant that they (nd) made me root for character which I absolutely hated so much it made me dislike the game at the beginning.
All of this in AAA game with no microtransactions and amazing production values. Stories like these are never seen in mainstream games. It's worth praising stuff like this and Death Stranding just so we get more single player games in the future. Why bash developers for trying something new and different ?
People in comments look like they've not played the game themselves and just say the same stuff "they killed joel, this is not cannon, fuck abby, they make you play as the worst character ever" etc. Just bullshit.


TissueBox Exactly! It's hard for me to udnerstand how can people still be mad at the ending for Ellie not killing her. Poor Abby suffered so much

 

[Steve.1981]

So, for my part, NaughtyDog, on the one hand I congratulate you, as a professional, and on the other hand, as a user, I spit on your face...

My man, this is pretty hilarious

Seriously though, I'm right there with you. I don't exactly share all of your opinions, but I share your struggle to come to terms with the story of The Last of Us part 2.