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About the Ending of The Last of Us Part II [Spoilers]

Saber

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Ellie doesn't kill Abby at the end because upon experiencing flashbacks of Joel and thinking about what he meant to her, she realizes what Abby's father must have meant to Abby.

Joel killed Abby's father, which drove Abby to kill Joel; as much as Ellie misses Joel, she understands why Abby killed him and accepts it.

Hope it was worth all the killing.

Probably letting Abby alive will make all the nightmares about Joel torture(which btw was not necessary of Abby doing it in front of Ellie as if Ellie was a part of something Joel did in the past) go away. Also, wonder if that will bring back Dina and Jessie.
 
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BluRayHiDef

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The only part about the ending that I truly hate is that Abby bites off two of Ellie's fingers. I don't like the idea of a maimed protagonist.
 
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Ulysses 31

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The only part about the ending that I truly hate is that Abby bites off two of Ellie's fingers. I don't like the idea of a maimed protagonist.
No problems with Ellie's character threatening to cut Lev or continue using a knife against a weakened unarmed Abby?
 
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Dolomite

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Haven't played the game yet but I don't care about spoilers.
Honest question: is there a sense of resentment playing AS the antagonist that kills off the main character of such a deep and personal story? Like does it ever feel "good" or satisfying playing as Abby?
 

Nikana

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Haven't played the game yet but I don't care about spoilers.
Honest question: is there a sense of resentment playing AS the antagonist that kills off the main character of such a deep and personal story? Like does it ever feel "good" or satisfying playing as Abby?

No. In fact I would say I hated her more after playing as her.
 
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Ulysses 31

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Haven't played the game yet but I don't care about spoilers.
Honest question: is there a sense of resentment playing AS the antagonist that kills off the main character of such a deep and personal story? Like does it ever feel "good" or satisfying playing as Abby?
Might feel good in-spite of her when you fight your way through infected/hostile territory if you like the combat gameplay loop.
 
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Dolomite

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No. In fact I would say I hated her more after playing as her.
This is my fear. I don't like playing through an unenjoyable experience for the sake of advancing story telling. They better prequel the fuck out of this series of not just to have more Joel interactions. He deserved more
 

BluRayHiDef

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Having said all I've said, Joel's death is very, very sad. The flashback sequence in which he takes Ellie to a museum for her birthday makes my eyes watery because it shows just how much he cared about her and how much of a great father figure he was. Damn.
 
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Saber

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There is no antagonist and no protagonist; there are no good guys and no bad guys but only different parties with different perspectives.

This is the lamiest excuse ever.

If you think theres no protagonist theres no reason for Ellie to be in the boxart of the game and theres no reason for you to feel anything at the end of the game.
 
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Nikana

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This is my fear. I don't like playing through an unenjoyable experience for the sake of advancing story telling. They better prequel the fuck out of this series of not just to have more Joel interactions. He deserved more

The issue is you aren't playing as her to hate her. It's very clear they want you to feel for this character for God knows what reason.
 

Dolomite

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The issue is you aren't playing as her to hate her. It's very clear they want you to feel for this character for God knows what reason.
Yeah I can understand that. It's wild that videogames today can put the viewer in such states of internal confliction you usually find in film. Like the game makes you question WHY you feel how you do, in that regard alone Naughty Dog are genius
 
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Saber

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This is my fear. I don't like playing through an unenjoyable experience for the sake of advancing story telling. They better prequel the fuck out of this series of not just to have more Joel interactions. He deserved more

I felt the same when I started to see the leaks long ago. No way they will force me to play as this character, all I wanted was to play as Ellie.
 

NoxNyctores

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Honestly can't wait to see what happens now: is Druckman fired before he can destroy Naughty Dog or is Naughty Dog destroyed and sold to Activision to recoup losses so that Activision can claim to make a new Crash Bandicoot by Naughty Dog?
 

BluRayHiDef

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Honestly can't wait to see what happens now: is Druckman fired before he can destroy Naughty Dog or is Naughty Dog destroyed and sold to Activision to recoup losses so that Activision can claim to make a new Crash Bandicoot by Naughty Dog?
You think that this game will wind up underselling?
 

morelan

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Just copying my post from the other thread where the same thing is being discussed:

I understand that this is how the game wants to justifiy her "last second realization" (that she should not kill Abby, that it won't do anything etc.), but imo it doesn't work. The game wants me to buy that Ellie had this realization in the middle of the most adrenaline filled moment of her journey, after (1) living a somewhat happy life with Dina and seeing how good it could feel, (2) facing the dangers of crossing the country, (3) being gravely injured, (4) having to take an entire fortress of Rattlers and (5) putting a knife to a kid's neck. It seems to me that every single one of these moments could much more plausibly trigger this realization than the one Druckmann chose.
 

ZZZZ

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I like Abby. I understand her rage.

 

NoxNyctores

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You think that this game will wind up underselling?
No, this game will sell really well as it happens with any sequels or studios that have a good track record, the reaction to this game will be felt in whatever Naughty Dog makes after this

Think of Devil May Cry and how despite DMC2 being considered the worst game of the franchise sold pretty well but then DMC3 was considered the best game yet and sold a lot worse
 

Holgren

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But do you understand why she's willing to risk her life multiple times to help people who saved her and other times she acts like nothing happened? :lollipop_grinning::lollipop_grinning::lollipop_grinning:

I can definitely understand that. If my only beloved person was killed during his job that had a high chance of saving humanity, there will be no redeemable qualities the killer can have to pardon his actions. From the start of the game we see that Abby's life goal is to kill Joel, she goes in a scouting mission alone to see if Joel is in the camp completely disregarding her survival chances. She only cares about her life at that point to fulfill her goal of killing her father's murderer. Joel saving her doesn't change that at all. It is only after Joel's death that she could move past the trauma and start building a life for her.

Of course she helps other people who saved her, they didn´t ruin her life unlike Joel did.

The ending sucked though, I wanted Abby dead.
 
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Saber

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I can definitely understand that. If my only beloved person was killed during his job that had a high chance of saving humanity, there will be no redeemable qualities the killer can have to pardon his actions. From the start of the game we see that Abby's life goal is to kill Joel, she goes in a scouting mission alone to see if Joel is in the camp completely disregarding her survival chances. She only cares about her life at that point to fulfill her goal of killing her father's murderer. Joel saving her doesn't change that at all. It is only after Joel's death that she could move past the trauma and start building a life for her.

The difference that most people ignore(maybe on purpose), is that Ellie was just a child. People, at least try to think that way for a bloody second.
Ellie may well want this but she is just a kid. She doesn't know whats good for her, the only ones who should choose are their parents or guardians. The "save humanity" is the peek conflict of what made LoU good in the first place. Also, must remind you that Abby father has said that he has killing on his hand, spouting that everything will be fine/justified once he gets Ellie(and proceed to question why tell to Joel, showing that he wanted to do this without Joel knowing).

No one in their demented mind would sacrifice their precious son or daughter for a chance to save billions. No one. Not even Abby retarded father could give Marlene an answer.

Also she never moved past her trauma after Joel deaths. If anything, it only made things worse. The nightmares of Joel torture will continue until the end of her life.
 
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GetemMa

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I gotta be honest, I just watched the ending, as I couldn't stand playing the game anymore. It's just too long and self indulgent. It's what I figured was going to happen.

I really hope this is the last game in this series. It does not need another installment.

I really wish Naughty Dog would take all that talent that produces those meticulously crafted environments, and that peerless motion capture, and that good voice acting and that great use of music and put all that into a game which prioritizes gameplay. I know that is supposed to be Uncharted, but....they really need to hire someone to help with that end of things. Imagine if the next ND game did all the things they usually do brilliantly but felt as good to play as Vanquish or Devil May Cry 5.

I guess they would argue that those wishes are contradictory as they want people to take their slow ass time walk through those levels and admire them and glean things from them to enrich the story, but IMO skilled game designers could pull off both.
 
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Ulysses 31

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I can definitely understand that. If my only beloved person was killed during his job that had a high chance of saving humanity, there will be no redeemable qualities the killer can have to pardon his actions. From the start of the game we see that Abby's life goal is to kill Joel, she goes in a scouting mission alone to see if Joel is in the camp completely disregarding her survival chances. She only cares about her life at that point to fulfill her goal of killing her father's murderer. Joel saving her doesn't change that at all. It is only after Joel's death that she could move past the trauma and start building a life for her.

Of course she helps other people who saved her, they didn´t ruin her life unlike Joel did.

The ending sucked though, I wanted Abby dead.
But we don't know if there was a high chance of saving humanity, she tortures Joel and only ends it quickly because she's ordered to, in front of Ellie, ignoring pleas for mercy. She never saw Joel kill her father so she's being more cruel in this case. She starts growing a more of a conscience about those who save her after she kills Joel but she never once reflects about Joel saving her and the implications of his character saving a total stranger.
 
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Holgren

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The difference that most people ignore(maybe on purpose), is that Ellie was just a child. People, at least try to think that way for a bloody second.
Ellie may well want this but she is just a kid. She doesn't know whats good for her, the only ones who should choice are their parents or guardians. The "save humanity" is the peek conflict of what made LoU good in the first place. Also, must remind you that Abby father has said that he has killing on his hand, spouting that everything will be fine/justified once he gets Ellie(and proceed to question why tell to Joel, showing that he wanted to do this without Joel knowing).

No one in their demented mind would sacrifice their precious son or daughter for a chance to save billions. No one. Not even Abby retarded father could give Marlene an answer.

Also she never moved past her trauma after Joel deaths. If anything, it only made things worse. The nightmares of Joel torture will continue until the end of her life.

I agree with all of this, but take into account that you're seeing it from Joel and Ellie's point of view while I'm trying to do it through Abby's and understanding why Joel saving her didn't change a thing. Just like you said that Ellie never moved from her trauma, the same is true for Abby. The difference being that Abby had years to fill her hatred that culminated in that savage killing of Joel. In Ellie's case at the end she decided to let it go.
 
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morelan

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The difference that most people ignore(maybe on purpose), is that Ellie was just a child. People, at least try to think that way for a bloody second.
Ellie may well want this but she is just a kid. She doesn't know whats good for her, the only ones who should choice are their parents or guardians. The "save humanity" is the peek conflict of what made LoU good in the first place. Also, must remind you that Abby father has said that he has killing on his hand, spouting that everything will be fine/justified once he gets Ellie(and proceed to question why tell to Joel, showing that he wanted to do this without Joel knowing).

No one in their demented mind would sacrifice their precious son or daughter for a chance to save billions. No one. Not even Abby retarded father could give Marlene an answer.

Also she never moved past her trauma after Joel deaths. If anything, it only made things worse. The nightmares of Joel torture will continue until the end of her life.

This reminds me of how badly written Abby's father is. Good lord.

"Ok, now, for this second part, the player needs to sympathize with Abby. I got it! Let's make her father be a very caring person, let's make him save a zebra who just gave birth! That's the guy Joel mercilessly killed. Yeah! Perfect!"

"Now we have to make it seem like it was very obvious to Abby that killing Ellie to find the cure was the right choice, so that she doesn't understand Joel at all... I got it! What if her father outright says it! He'll say something like, like, "it's obvious! We should kill her!" and then Marlene will say "but maybe" and he'll say "fuck maybe! kill her" and Marlene "ok I'll tell Joel" and him "fuck Joel! fuck Ellie! I ONLY LIKE MOTHERFUCKING ZEMBRAAAAASSS".
 
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sobaka770

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Loved it. Such a powerful story and ending. I think if leaks didn't happen and got an angry mob riled up this could've been a massive homerun. And it still is just with a lot of vitriol going around.

I hated Abby, I wanted her dead. Then I got to know Abby and started to understand her. The sniper sequence really brought it home - such a masterful subversion. Ending is tragic, sad and yet bittersweet.

As second part is usually the darkest and lowest point of a trilogy, this was perfect and I hope next game (and there's no doubt that the story isn't over?) manages to match this and the original.
 
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Saber

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I agree with all of this, but take into account that you're seeing it from Joel and Ellie's point of view while I'm trying to do it through Abby's and understanding why Joel saving her didn't change a thing. Just like you said that Ellie never moved from her trauma, the same is true for Abby.

You just fall into Neil's trap, forcing you to symphatize with Abby.

Abby never wanted justice. She wanted revenge, ence why she tortured Joel instead of killing him. She could simply make Ellie uncuncious so she could spare her from seeing Joel dying. But she did all front of Ellie eyes, traumatizating someone who has nothing to do with her quest. Can you justify that?
 

Punished Miku

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I can't believe you guys actually think it's a bad ending. I watched dozens of videos talking about how bad it was from political youtube channels. I finally just watched it for myself, and it's really well done.

But we don't know if there was a high chance of saving humanity, she tortures Joel and only ends it quickly because she's ordered to, in front of Ellie, ignoring pleas for mercy. She never saw Joel kill her father so she's being more cruel in this case. She starts growing a more of a conscience about those who save her after she kills Joel but she never once reflects about Joel saving her and the implications of his character saving a total stranger.

Maybe she will in part 3? The ending clearly leaves her a changed person. Almost all of the plot of part 2 is driven by the end of part 1. Part 3 is probably driven by part 2.
 
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Jon Neu

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Maybe she will in part 3? The ending clearly leaves her a changed person. Almost all of the plot of part 2 is driven by the end of part 1. Part 3 is probably driven by part 2.

Imagine a part 3 with Ellie, Abby, Lev and Noselina and no Joel.

The most uninteresting characters ever united without the Joel backstory to carry the weight.
 
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Sounds dreadful. Story is the main appeal in a game like this. I thought the actual game mechanics in the first game were just serviceable, while the story was interesting, which made it somewhat worth playing. With this game, even the story isn't worth the price of admission. I guess modern Naughty Dog games just aren't for me.
 
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scalman

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It was good ending, much better then happy family ending if it would be, this is who ellie really is, last area looks so good.
 
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BluRayHiDef

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What if there were a third game in this series in which it were revealed that Ellie began day dreaming as she was drowning Abby and that everything that she did from that point until the end of Part II was imagined?

Hence, what if the third game were to start during Ellie's awakening from this day dream as she's drowning Abby and have the player actually kill Abby and have Ellie not lose any fingers?
 
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Bryank75

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Here is the 80's version of Abby killing Joel....


Except Clarence Boddiker was cooler than Abby and actually showed more mercy!
 
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Holgren

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You just fall into Neil's trap, forcing you to symphatize with Abby.

Abby never wanted justice. She wanted revenge, ence why she tortured Joel instead of killing him. She could simply make Ellie uncuncious so she could spare her from seeing Joel dying. But she did all front of Ellie eyes, traumatizating someone who has nothing to do with her quest. Can you justify that?
Never said she wanted justice, it is clearly revenge she was looking for and I don't deny that. At the moment of the game she is a psychopath that only wants to kill Joel no matter what, everything else being blurred, like a horse with blinders. Putting myself in the perspective of Abby doesn't mean I justify her actions (she is rotten inside), but it is just taking into account the force behind those actions. Ellie being there was never part of the plan, and she came at the moment when Abby was fullfiling her goal, she was basically an animal at the moment. Dunno why a random girl coming in would break this emotional state she was having at the moment (she did have an effect in the way that she stopped beating the shit out of him and gave him the final blow).

I also can't feel too bad about Joel, he has been living in this world for longer and had suffered sacrifices himself. He knew that Ellie was inmune from the get go (as far as I remember) and should have known that the doctors wouldn't shy away of any methods that would make a vaccine possible to save the world of the context that killed his ACTUAL daughter.

His actions in the hospital (killing pretty much everyone) are in the same level as Abby's golf club fiesta. They are both psychopaths, but Joel is even less redeemable since 1.- He is a fucking adult 2.- He probably doomed humanity to more years of cordyceps apocalypse. 3.- He forced Ellie to live in this world where they are in constant danger of dying in horrible ways just because he wanted to be a daddy again, he doesn't even think of his surrogate daughter's future. How selfish is that!. "Don't you worry Ellie I'll keep you safe, even though last winter you had to survive on your own against some maniac killers, but I'll keep you safe baby girl".
 
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scalman

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yes no good guys or bad guys here, not main leads at least, those group people who patroling just need to die anyway lol. but noone is good or right here, its depends from what perspective you look at it. and game gives you all kind perspectives to see many angles.
 

Bryank75

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I knew there was something off about Abby but this video explains exactly what is wrong with her.... she is a psychopath, similar to Jeffery Dahmer. She displays all the characteristics of one.... whether intended or not by the writers. Ellie would have been doing the world a service to end her.
 
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vodka-bull

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Ok folks, so here are my two cents for all (ie most) of the critiques i read. I played through the game within the first 29 hours after release, I am currently on my second playthrough, and I'd like to adress most of the points the internet is angry about

Joel deserved better:
Why? What makes him so outstanding? Remember a frw scenes from TLOU1, for example the one in the winter in which Joel, the supposedly good guy, tortures two of davids guys to tell him where they kept Ellie captive. Or the one in which Joel killed the surgeon that was about to find a cure for the cordyceps. He's a normal human being, why should he, realistically speaken, get some sort of special treatment and an "oh so theatrical ending"? Abby was pissed because of all the selfish and cruel actions Joel did, not only to humanity, but to her personally by killing her father. So she and the group she had with her on that mission did what she was set out to do: finding Joel. Not out of her personal reasons, but most probably because the entire WLF was after him for years. The personal part is the way how she killed him and the reason why she killed him. They (Naughty Dog) had to kill him, he was a favorite character, there was no way they could've killed him without any shitstorm in the fanbase. So they had all the freedom to kill him whichever way they wanted, and getting his skull smashed by a golf club seams reasonable for this kind of world.

Abby wasn't grateful for getting saved:
Go back and look at the cutscene again, where she heard Joels name the first time. You can clearly see in her eyes and hear in her voice, when she realizes that she just got rescued by Joel. Her coice changes, her eyes glaze, it's shockingly for her, but she keeps on sucking it up until she was in a safe environment of getting her revenge. What else was she supposed to do? Killing him on first sight? it was two against one.

Abby killed Joel in front of his daughter:
She didn't know that the girl which ran into the room was Ellie, she didn't know anything about her relationship with him. For all she knew Ellie was just one woman who knew Joel. And once they had Ellie on the ground, she was ordered by Owen to end it quick, because he doesn't want him being tortured anymore. Ellies name was never mentioned in the room. Neither was that Ellie was part of Abbys pain. If Abby were that cruel, she would've killed Ellie and Tommy as well, just because she can. But she didn't. Cruel or not, evil or good is a matter of perspective, but to me, Abby is not the villain in this game.

Abby is a tranny:
Yeah, whatever. Grow up and stop watching porn. Different people, different looks, and I hate to destroy your dreamworld, but some females like to have muscle, whether you like it or not. In my opinion, Neil Druckmann did a really good job of making the characters realistic, and buff women, especially in a post-apocalyptic world who serve as soldiers, may be buff as well. One of the first scenes you see when the Abby part starts is a massive gym. Muscles reduce the chance of getting killed when death is permanently waiting outside. Period.

It doesn't make sense she doesn't want Owen until he's taken:
So, you never felt bad because somebody "got" a person you desired? What did you do then? Just run away, let them live happily ever after, or try your best chances to get the person anyway? In the moment Owen was about becoming a father with a woman he doesn't really love, which is clearly visible, Abby realized that she had real feelings for him and he is indeed someone that can be loved, although (or despite) they're friends. Happened to me a few times in my life, but maybe love works differently overseas, I don't know.

Abby is cruel because she takes Owen from Mel:
WTF? Again, step out of your dreamworld. It's love, didn't seem like she raped him or so. It was two mature people having sex with each other, consensually. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Dina is ugly:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

No consequences for Abby:
Yeah right, as if getting many friends killed by Ellie is no consequence. As if seeing a little girl getting killed is no consequence. As if getting captured by an inhumane, ruthless, opportunistic group and being hung at the beach, so long, that your entire skin peals itself off from the sunburns is no consequence.
Abby had suffered enough I think, even though she wasn't killed. It doesn't have to be always eye for an eye.

The ending scene:
Ellie lost Joel. Ellie lost her ability to play the geetar. Ellie lost Dina. And she got rid of her feelings of revenge. She released the anger, just in the moment, when she could've continued being part of the problem of this cruel world. Instead she chose to end the cycle of hatred. And no, Ellie didn't choose to let her go because she realized that Joel killed her father and how much pain that must've caused, Ellie didn't know that Abbys father was the surgeon who was supposed to save humanity.

The fact, that so many people are butthurt as hell, proves that Neil Druckmann did a great job. If a game is only good in case it delivers what people were expecting it would be called Uncharted or GTA or whatever triple A game.. But if you get the internet on a ragewar, you did something special. Whether you like it or not, the fact, that the fanbase is discussing so intensely since the games release means that he truly created a piece of art. And thank god it's the 21st century, otherwise it would be pitchforks and torches, and centurys later it would be called art nonetheless.

Naughty Dog created a masterpiece, with characters so realistic, it scares me to see where we're heading to in the next generation. If graphics get even more realistic, the already thin line between the real world and the virtual world gets thinner and thinner, and it shocks me how I felt about the game after I finished it. I didn't read any spoilers beforehand, when Joel got killed I cried for a few minutes straight. I felt the anger, I felt the lust for revenge, I was just as sad as if a good friend got killed. I was heartbroken, and there were a few other scenes which made me cry. At first, I didn't like to play Abby as well. But then I got to know her a little bit better, and even if I'd never feel the same empathy for her as I did for Ellie, especially in the first game, gameplay wise, her part is so much better than Ellies part. And if I wouldn't have seen Joels killing beforehand, if ND would've release Abbys part just like they released The Lost Legacy, I would've bought it. And then, when Ellie and Abby got confronted the first time in the theater, I was very confused about what to feel. The game even made me feel anger towards Ellie. And the ending sequence left me totally confused. Not because of a bad story, but because I didn't know what I should feel. Certainly, there was some sort of relief, but in a very strange way.

Replayability isn't as high as it was in the first game, but going for the 100% and diving deeper into the world by searching all the collectibles is worth the time, and I'd suggest everyone to do so as well, especially since after seeing the complete story the first time with all the flashbacks and Abbys sideway story, it gives you a totally different view to the happenings in the game, because now you know what they know.

And besides all the critiques, and all the rages I read and saw on the internet, nobody ever mentioned a truly bad decision: Abbys voiceactor. Not only is it a little bit too soft in my opinion, after I finished the game I had to research if Ashley Johnson also played Abby, because Abbys and Ellies voices sounded so similiar to my ears. But I guess that's a not-native-speaker problem.
 
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ZZZZ

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Ok folks, so here are my two cents for all (ie most) of the critiques i read. I played through the game within the first 29 hours after release, I am currently on my second playthrough, and I'd like to adress most of the points the internet is angry about

Joel deserved better:
Why? What makes him so outstanding? Remember a frw scenes from TLOU1, for example the one in the winter in which Joel, the supposedly good guy, tortures two of davids guys to tell him where they kept Ellie captive. Or the one in which Joel killed the surgeon that was about to find a cure for the cordyceps. He's a normal human being, why should he, realistically speaken, get some sort of special treatment and an "oh so theatrical ending"? Abby was pissed because of all the selfish and cruel actions Joel did, not only to humanity, but to her personally by killing her father. So she and the group she had with her on that mission did what she was set out to do: finding Joel. Not out of her personal reasons, but most probably because the entire WLF was after him for years. The personal part is the way how she killed him and the reason why she killed him. They (Naughty Dog) had to kill him, he was a favorite character, there was no way they could've killed him without any shitstorm in the fanbase. So they had all the freedom to kill him whichever way they wanted, and getting his skull smashed by a golf club seams reasonable for this kind of world.

Abby wasn't grateful for getting saved:
Go back and look at the cutscene again, where she heard Joels name the first time. You can clearly see in her eyes and hear in her voice, when she realizes that she just got rescued by Joel. Her coice changes, her eyes glaze, it's shockingly for her, but she keeps on sucking it up until she was in a safe environment of getting her revenge. What else was she supposed to do? Killing him on first sight? it was two against one.

Abby killed Joel in front of his daughter:
She didn't know that the girl which ran into the room was Ellie, she didn't know anything about her relationship with him. For all she knew Ellie was just one woman who knew Joel. And once they had Ellie on the ground, she was ordered by Owen to end it quick, because he doesn't want him being tortured anymore. Ellies name was never mentioned in the room. Neither was that Ellie was part of Abbys pain. If Abby were that cruel, she would've killed Ellie and Tommy as well, just because she can. But she didn't. Cruel or not, evil or good is a matter of perspective, but to me, Abby is not the villain in this game.

Abby is a tranny:
Yeah, whatever. Grow up and stop watching porn. Different people, different looks, and I hate to destroy your dreamworld, but some females like to have muscle, whether you like it or not. In my opinion, Neil Druckmann did a really good job of making the characters realistic, and buff women, especially in a post-apocalyptic world who serve as soldiers, may be buff as well. One of the first scenes you see when the Abby part starts is a massive gym. Muscles reduce the chance of getting killed when death is permanently waiting outside. Period.

It doesn't make sense she doesn't want Owen until he's taken:
So, you never felt bad because somebody "got" a person you desired? What did you do then? Just run away, let them live happily ever after, or try your best chances to get the person anyway? In the moment Owen was about becoming a father with a woman he doesn't really love, which is clearly visible, Abby realized that she had real feelings for him and he is indeed someone that can be loved, although (or despite) they're friends. Happened to me a few times in my life, but maybe love works differently overseas, I don't know.

Abby is cruel because she takes Owen from Mel:
WTF? Again, step out of your dreamworld. It's love, didn't seem like she raped him or so. It was two mature people having sex with each other, consensually. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Dina is ugly:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

No consequences for Abby:
Yeah right, as if getting many friends killed by Ellie is no consequence. As if seeing a little girl getting killed is no consequence. As if getting captured by an inhumane, ruthless, opportunistic group and being hung at the beach, so long, that your entire skin peals itself off from the sunburns is no consequence.
Abby had suffered enough I think, even though she wasn't killed. It doesn't have to be always eye for an eye.

The ending scene:
Ellie lost Joel. Ellie lost her ability to play the geetar. Ellie lost Dina. And she got rid of her feelings of revenge. She released the anger, just in the moment, when she could've continued being part of the problem of this cruel world. Instead she chose to end the cycle of hatred. And no, Ellie didn't choose to let her go because she realized that Joel killed her father and how much pain that must've caused, Ellie didn't know that Abbys father was the surgeon who was supposed to save humanity.

The fact, that so many people are butthurt as hell, proves that Neil Druckmann did a great job. If a game is only good in case it delivers what people were expecting it would be called Uncharted or GTA or whatever triple A game.. But if you get the internet on a ragewar, you did something special. Whether you like it or not, the fact, that the fanbase is discussing so intensely since the games release means that he truly created a piece of art. And thank god it's the 21st century, otherwise it would be pitchforks and torches, and centurys later it would be called art nonetheless.

Naughty Dog created a masterpiece, with characters so realistic, it scares me to see where we're heading to in the next generation. If graphics get even more realistic, the already thin line between the real world and the virtual world gets thinner and thinner, and it shocks me how I felt about the game after I finished it. I didn't read any spoilers beforehand, when Joel got killed I cried for a few minutes straight. I felt the anger, I felt the lust for revenge, I was just as sad as if a good friend got killed. I was heartbroken, and there were a few other scenes which made me cry. At first, I didn't like to play Abby as well. But then I got to know her a little bit better, and even if I'd never feel the same empathy for her as I did for Ellie, especially in the first game, gameplay wise, her part is so much better than Ellies part. And if I wouldn't have seen Joels killing beforehand, if ND would've release Abbys part just like they released The Lost Legacy, I would've bought it. And then, when Ellie and Abby got confronted the first time in the theater, I was very confused about what to feel. The game even made me feel anger towards Ellie. And the ending sequence left me totally confused. Not because of a bad story, but because I didn't know what I should feel. Certainly, there was some sort of relief, but in a very strange way.

Replayability isn't as high as it was in the first game, but going for the 100% and diving deeper into the world by searching all the collectibles is worth the time, and I'd suggest everyone to do so as well, especially since after seeing the complete story the first time with all the flashbacks and Abbys sideway story, it gives you a totally different view to the happenings in the game, because now you know what they know.

And besides all the critiques, and all the rages I read and saw on the internet, nobody ever mentioned a truly bad decision: Abbys voiceactor. Not only is it a little bit too soft in my opinion, after I finished the game I had to research if Ashley Johnson also played Abby, because Abbys and Ellies voices sounded so similiar to my ears. But I guess that's a not-native-speaker problem.
Funny, the game was a complete trash to me and it wasn't because of any of those points, except maybe the Abby and Owen sex scene, just reinforced to me that Abby is a character that i really don't care about, if she dies or lives or saves the world, i feel completely uninterested in her story.
 
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MayauMiao

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Feb 14, 2018
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You just fall into Neil's trap, forcing you to symphatize with Abby.

Abby never wanted justice. She wanted revenge, ence why she tortured Joel instead of killing him. She could simply make Ellie uncuncious so she could spare her from seeing Joel dying. But she did all front of Ellie eyes, traumatizating someone who has nothing to do with her quest. Can you justify that?

On top of torturing Joel, Abby knew that her father was attempting to take Ellie's life, without Ellie's consent.

She should have figured out why Joel had to kill her father, and at least make his death quick and painless if she seek justice.

But no, she had to have fun practicing golf, and did it right in front of Ellie to see.
 
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DForce

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Nov 23, 2017
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Ellie doesn't kill Abby at the end because upon experiencing flashbacks of Joel and thinking about what he meant to her, she realizes what Abby's father must have meant to Abby.

Joel killed Abby's father, which drove Abby to kill Joel; as much as Ellie misses Joel, she understands why Abby killed him and accepts it.

I think she wasn't set on killing Abby when she made it to Santa Barbara.

It seems like she was conflicted with her feelings and that's why she didn't kill Abby when she was tied to the post. Ellie was ready to sail on the boat after rescuing Lev and Abby, but couldn't shake that feeling and decided to fight Abby.

I have no problem with Ellie letting Abby go because I don't believe Abby deserved to die.
 

benjohn

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Nov 23, 2018
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The choice Eli makes doesn't necessarily have to appeal to anyone. It's her choice maybe for redeeming herself for killing a pregnant woman or because she wants to end the cycle of violence. It's her choice not ours.