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Neil Druckmann has being getting transphobic, homophobic, anti-Semitic messages
- Thread starter kretos
- Start date
cormack12
Gold Member
I doubt many got this reference, but I laughed out loud
Some top tier trolling right there.
Kiwicha
Member
Complaining about social media using social media. Like when that girl called Chatterbox to complain about phones.
It is possible to avoid facebook, twitter forums and the like if you hate them so much. Like most inventions they have a good side and a bad one. You woudn't say automovils are the worst inventions ever since millions have died because of them and the pollution they emit. Worst inventions are tha atomic bomb or the selfie stick.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
GAF ain't social media like Twitter & Facebook. This is an old-school, chill forum for chatting about games & stuff. A very different beast.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
1. I admitted that she ultimately decided to spare Dina and Ellie only because of Lev's plea. However, considering that she had already spared Ellie and Tommy earlier in the game and that her decision to do so resulted in Ellie killing three of her friends (i.e. Nora, Owen, and Mel, though I don't know if she's aware of Nora's death) and Tommy killing another of her friends (i.e. Manny), it's understandable that she attempted to Kill Tommy (and believed that she was successful) and it's understandable that she would have otherwise killed Ellie and Dina.
2. Abby does know who killed her friends, which is how she tracked down Ellie at the theater; Ellie left her map in the aquarium, where she killed Owen and Mel; on her map, she doodled information that Abby used to track her. Abby even says to Ellie, "You killed my friends. We let you live and you wasted it." So, she wasn't killing indiscriminately. She may not have known exactly who killed who and in what context, but she could reasonably conclude that Ellie (and Tommy) were responsible; why else would they be in Seattle and not back in Jackson?
2. Abby does know who killed her friends, which is how she tracked down Ellie at the theater; Ellie left her map in the aquarium, where she killed Owen and Mel; on her map, she doodled information that Abby used to track her. Abby even says to Ellie, "You killed my friends. We let you live and you wasted it." So, she wasn't killing indiscriminately. She may not have known exactly who killed who and in what context, but she could reasonably conclude that Ellie (and Tommy) were responsible; why else would they be in Seattle and not back in Jackson?
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sid2vicious
Banned
Again you're excusing murdering because it fits your narrative. If she was merciful (your words not mine), she would forgive Joel or at least listen to his side of the story, instead of brutally murdering him. Despite what Joel did, two wrongs doesn't make a right. What Joel did was wrong, but at least he had good intentions for doing what he did, Abby did what she did for selfish reasons, so anyone who can sympathize with this piece of trash is also a piece of trash.
bargeparty
Member
lol you guys are great at this.
Ulysses 31
Member
1. Do you find it surprising that Tommy and Ellie didn't just move on after the way Abby dealt with Joel? She didn't spare them, Owen reigned her in. Her main beef should be with Tommy who tried to kill her multiple times, she doesn't know how much Ellie is involved. Her animosity towards Ellie is unjustified with what she knows up to that point.
2. Abby's assumes guilt by association is not a reasonable conclusion, especially after what she's witnessed with the Scars she helped earlier. Abby killed and was willing to kill people not involved with Mel and Owen so how is she not killing indiscriminately?
Dthomp
Member
Never again. I did not buy TLOU2, mainly because I did not like TLOU. I found it "meh" at best, I was bored most of the time and still don't understand the love of that game. However I usually like to play major releases just to experience the moment with others, and alot of what he has said and done on twitter/social media over the years has completely turned me off of anything his name is on. I will never give another dollar to ND as long as he's involved. He's just another grifter like Anita (At least he has skills for this industry), I wish he could leave his nonsense politics out of every aspect of things and just make FUN video games. Oh wait, ND isn't allowed to strive to make FUN games anymore. Fuck Druck
Dick Jones
Gold Member
So you didn't play TLOU2? If you don't like certain types of games that's fine. You didn t like ND's output so they aren't the game developers for you. Not liking TLOU means you should have no interest in a sequel. I'm not a huge fan of Battle Royale games but i dont hang around reading everything from Fortnite's Twitter account. I don't see why his social media would affect you then, or his politics in games you don't like. If Druckmann had no social media you wouldn't have bought the sequel, so what's your problem?
Dthomp
Member
I guess I didn't explain, up until Druck I LOVED Naughty Dog games, some of my all time favorites before he came along. And all honesty like I said, I would have bought this game just to play it and experience it had it not been for him and his beliefs and bullshit he spouts on the internet. So had he not had a Social Media I damn sure would have given the game a chance. The user asked a question, I answered it to why I didn't/won't buy in the future.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
You said you wouldn't play TLOU2 mainly because you didn't like the first game. You were not giving the game a chance. So what social media comments exactly did he make that offended you?
Dthomp
Member
I'm not digging through his past to appease you, user asked a question, I answered. I am not looking for a fucking debate here with you. Clearly you are a fan, otherwise you wouldn't be so hurt that I don't support it/him. I'm out
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Dick Jones
Gold Member
No I'm not. Your argument was weak and it was obvious you are uncomfortable with either lesbians, trans people or well built women. I can't really figure out what your issue is otherwise. So yeah, you're out when you don't know the jist of his awful tweets that offended you. I was looking for the harmful political views you believe him to have, not a link to a tweet in 2015 or something. I wouldn't be so hurt? I'm just wondering how someone who didn't like the first game won't play the second because of politics of the director rather than because you didn't like the first game.
Cheerio.
gow3isben
Member
What a frikkin Ace video. Best Youtube gaming personality hands down. Sad he isn't making videos as frequently anymore. Another underrated gem reviewer for all Sony fans is "Praise the Game". Another European creator with incredibly thought out videos.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
The medium will never be taken seriously as an art form because these idiots.
I’d really like to know what happened with Amy Hennig at ND. I’m actually not a huge fan of the Uncharted Trilogy but I respect her work. Soul Reaver 2 really left an impression on me. I wish her the best and hope she gets to make another game.
sevoro
Member
So long as people don't provide receipts on how Neil has been a hateful person towards his the fans I'm just gonna have to call BS on any "justified" hate towards him. Onus is always on the people making claims.
Also I thought this place was different than ERA, I thought this place could separate the art from the artist or it just the same with the other site, but only for different views?
Also I thought this place was different than ERA, I thought this place could separate the art from the artist or it just the same with the other site, but only for different views?
bargeparty
Member
No this place is the polar opposite of reset in regards to how they view things. It's pretty interesting to look at.
He has never been hateful towards his fans. I understand not agreeing with his politics but he seems like your garden variety liberal. Can anybody point to anything he has done that would warrant this kind of vitriol?
GreenAlien
Member
Receipt: TloU2
Subverting expectations in a way fans won't like, on purpose with the full knowledge that fans won't like it... what is that, if not hateful?
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sevoro
Member
And yet some fans love the game, so that's not really a receipt, that's just your view on what constitutes hate. He took a risk when making this game knowing some people would love/hate it, that is not hateful, sure it may seem hateful to you but it ain't it. When I ask for receipts I'm asking for statements made by him.
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I happen to love the game and it is selling like hot cakes so how is that hateful?
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
What's with the "this place" talk?
This is a forum. There are loads of different people here from all over the world, with loads of different opinions on things.
You're from Australia. I'm from Scotland. I think Neil Druckman is damn good at what he does. I've loved most of his work. At the same time I think he comes across as a bit of a virtue signalling drama queen. What do you think?
anothertech
Member
Why post this? Seems so naive.
Welcome to the internet I guess?
Welcome to the internet I guess?
MrS
Banned
What's good for the game isn't necessarily good for the fans. Everything ND has done is in service of telling an interesting story. The story is richer and has more emotional weight because of the choices ND made.
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sevoro
Member
I think he comes off as someone who believes in what he preaches, is that considered hateful though? I don't think his game tries to shove his views down your throat like some people seem to think. I can understand not liking the direction of the game from a storytelling point of view, but not a political one
The "this place" comment is just my personal view. Because forums can be compared even if the empirical evidence isn't strong enough to compare, it can still be done so.
Azurro
Banned
I don't think the argument that she was merciful holds up. Not only was she held back by her friends, she could have just killed Joel fast but instead decided to torture him and kill him slowly, without mentioning how she was glad to murder a pregnant woman and almost did it. She's a psychopath and it's a wonder how Druckmann believed anyone would feel empathy for someone like that.
bargeparty
Member
Held been by her friends how exactly?
She was only going to kill Dina as revenge.
Ellie is a psychopath too, right?
She was only going to kill Dina as revenge.
Ellie is a psychopath too, right?
ZZZZ
Member
No, never.
Ashraf’s Lioness
Member
Death threats are retarded but let’s keep it real for a sec
Neil is a master of Twitter fingers. As he knows exactly how to please a certain part of the gaming community and manipulate the others.
First Guarding behind LGBT “If you don’t like Abby. You’re bigot”
Now twisting the narrative “ignoring every real negative critique and focusing on a very very low percentages of idiot people who actually care about to post death threats”
Creating specific “Twitter memes” so he can get the upper hand. Call me whatever you want but don’t ignore the power of the Memes.
Neil is a master of Twitter fingers. As he knows exactly how to please a certain part of the gaming community and manipulate the others.
First Guarding behind LGBT “If you don’t like Abby. You’re bigot”
Now twisting the narrative “ignoring every real negative critique and focusing on a very very low percentages of idiot people who actually care about to post death threats”
Creating specific “Twitter memes” so he can get the upper hand. Call me whatever you want but don’t ignore the power of the Memes.
sol_bad
Member
So Ellie hunting down and trying to kill Abby is also selfish and anyone that sympathises with her is a piece of trash?
So you can't separate the artist from the art?
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BluRayHiDef
Banned
I'll put it this way: she's reasonably merciful. If you haven't wronged her, she'll spare you; otherwise she'll kill you to exact vengeance, which is why she itended to kill Tommy, why she killed Jesse, and why she was going to kill Dina and Ellie (they, as a group - as far as she could determine - came to Seattle to kill her friends and succeeded in killing Manny, Owen and Mel).
Considering that they exist in a post-apocalyptic, lawless world, the normalcy of killing is quite understandable. Just consider how many people that players - as Joel and Ellie - kill throughout the first game and the sequel. It doesn’t make sense to judge these characters according to the moral standards of our world.
Considering that they exist in a post-apocalyptic, lawless world, the normalcy of killing is quite understandable. Just consider how many people that players - as Joel and Ellie - kill throughout the first game and the sequel. It doesn’t make sense to judge these characters according to the moral standards of our world.
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BluRayHiDef
Banned
1. You must not have been paying attention to Abby's perspective of the scene in which she kills Joel; she consciously decides to spare Ellie and Tommy. Manny, Mel, and her friend who was cut in the face by Ellie suggest that they kill Ellie and Tommy, and the latter of them even charges toward Ellie with the intention of killing her. However, Abby says to him and everyone else, "Stop. We're done."
Go to 8:44.
2. She may not know who exactly killed which of her friends, but the fact that the location to which Ellie's map led her was occupied by a group of people indicates that said group of people were working in concert and came to Seattle to kill her and her friends. Hence, as a group, they're all responsible for the deaths of Owen, Mel, and Manny (as well as Nora, though I don't think that Abby's aware of Nora's death).
3. If a group of people decide to come to your town for the purpose of killing you and your friends but only one or two of the group actually commits the killings, the entire group is still responsible, because the members of the group who did not commit the killings still facilitated the killings by helping the ones who actually performed the killings.
4. You imply that Abby's beef is mainly with Ellie and that this is unreasonable because Abby doesn't know that Ellie is responsible for killing any of her friends. However, this is an incorrect conclusion; when Abby arrives at the theater, she doesn't focus on Ellie until Ellie tells her that she is the one whom Abby should be targeting. When Abby arrives at the theater, she focuses on Tommy, because he's the only person she initially discovers and is the person who killed Manny. She then kills Jesse because he startles her, and she targets Ellie because Ellie, as already stated, tells Abby that she is the one whom Abby should be targeting. She targets Dina because Dina attacks her, because Dina is part of the group (see my 3rd point), and because she wants to do to Ellie what Ellie did to her (i.e. Ellie killed her pregnant friend, Mel).
Go to 8:44.
2. She may not know who exactly killed which of her friends, but the fact that the location to which Ellie's map led her was occupied by a group of people indicates that said group of people were working in concert and came to Seattle to kill her and her friends. Hence, as a group, they're all responsible for the deaths of Owen, Mel, and Manny (as well as Nora, though I don't think that Abby's aware of Nora's death).
3. If a group of people decide to come to your town for the purpose of killing you and your friends but only one or two of the group actually commits the killings, the entire group is still responsible, because the members of the group who did not commit the killings still facilitated the killings by helping the ones who actually performed the killings.
4. You imply that Abby's beef is mainly with Ellie and that this is unreasonable because Abby doesn't know that Ellie is responsible for killing any of her friends. However, this is an incorrect conclusion; when Abby arrives at the theater, she doesn't focus on Ellie until Ellie tells her that she is the one whom Abby should be targeting. When Abby arrives at the theater, she focuses on Tommy, because he's the only person she initially discovers and is the person who killed Manny. She then kills Jesse because he startles her, and she targets Ellie because Ellie, as already stated, tells Abby that she is the one whom Abby should be targeting. She targets Dina because Dina attacks her, because Dina is part of the group (see my 3rd point), and because she wants to do to Ellie what Ellie did to her (i.e. Ellie killed her pregnant friend, Mel).
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
He called it 2 years in advance. Wow. This video has summarised how I'm feeling about the current climate, a nice middle take on things.
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bishopcruz
Member
Think that is a bit different to be honest. The one thing that was never actually brought up by the Salt Lake crew was any sort of culpability that the Fireflies had in their own demise. It's not like they didn't KNOW why Joel went on his rampage. Well I guess it's possible they were all idiots and didn't put two and two together, but I find that hard to believe. The thing is, Ellie was being selfish in going after them. That is clear. But the narrative spells that out from the very beginning. (Well, until the ending when it is pretty clear that Ellie needs closure, badly or she is going to end up in a very VERY bad place.) The narrative never actually does that with Abby. At NO point do any of the Salt Lake crew ask if killing Joel was worth the cost, Abby never takes responsibility for her actions or the actions of the Fireflies. Ellie does. Ellie not only blames herself for bringing Dina and the others into the mess in the first place she blames herself for JOEL doing what he did. Abby shows almost no self-reflection for anything she does. That is why people have no sympathy for her.
ExpandKong
Banned
You guys are putting more thought into this than Neil did but I'm not about to go tweet at him or anything
GenericUser
Member
No wonder Cuckmann is too much of an idiot to understand that most of these "threats" are written by 16yr old edgelords that want to play tough guy.
He directed an agenda driven SJW shitfest and then acts surprised that some people are upset.
He directed an agenda driven SJW shitfest and then acts surprised that some people are upset.
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S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
I was making the point that GAF doesn't hold one single view, like a hive-mind or the Borg or something. There are plenty of people here capable of separating the art from the artist. There are some who can't. It's a forum that welcomes opposing viewpoints & opinions.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
+1
I can't imagine what the forum would be like if everyone held my viewpoint.
Disgusting.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Sorry, I don't know if it's an error in quoting me or not. I can separate artist from art. I asked another poster for what the offending politics that Druckmann held on social media. The poster admitted to not liking the first game and wasn't buying the sequel, but was disturbed by Druckmann's beliefs.
I hear that argument so often about his politics but no one can give me a breakdown of it in ND's games and why his pov is wrong.
Miles708
Member
I hope I don't shoot myself in the foot by saying this, but as the face of an entire web community, just a bit more of style in your comment would go a long way.
Ulysses 31
Member
1. You're right, Owen stops the others but with your reasoning in 2 and 3 she should not have been merciful since they're "part of the group".
2. How is Dina responsible for any of those deaths? We as players know she had no hand in what Ellie did at the aquarium. Just holding the entire group responsible is not something a reasonable person does, unless that was the point of the game to show that Abby is being unreasonable at that time?
3. So with this reasoning, what happened to Own and Mel at the aquarium was justified because they facilitated what happened to Joel. Abby shouldn't be so upset about it.
4. Dina attacked and got subdued, Abby still wanted an execution. Ellie says she's the cure that will not come to fruition anymore, not what she did to Mel's friends. It's not even clear if Abby cares about a cure anymore at that point. If only the writing allowed Abby and Ellie to really talk to each other and clear up a lot of misunderstandings, the story would've been more believable.
#abolishthejokepolice
sobaka770
Banned
That's cause there is none.
Even in TLOU2 the so caleed "agenda" stuff has barely any incidence on the overall plot, it's just there.
But it's easier to be biased, not play the game, not even watch the game properly and then say Druckmann invited death threats cause he's a master manipulator.
The only sensible response is no matter what your beliefs or agenda is you never "invite" death threats. I think the basic right for life comes ahead of free speech.