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[yurinka]

What's so expensive about these controllers? seems super cheap to make to me.

DS4 stuff (~$60)+haptic feedback+adaptative trigger+bigger battery+mic array with noise cancelling and mute button+better speaker+very likely a newer bluetooth version or some other technology better than bluetooth. We're talking about a $80-$90 pad.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I smell bait. Funky, funky bait.

But if it's legit, it could be a yield-related issue and maybe the cooling system and SSD components (and the controller) are pricier than expected. Or they're the same as the BOM Bloomberg mentioned earlier, but the Japanese side won the debate (again) and they want to sell the console at-cost or at profit.

We shall see...

 

[cireza]

Nothing like an artificial shortage to raise people interest in the product ! Sony is really playing all their cards.

 

[Ten_Fold]

Will pick up at launch for $500, who would expect it to be anything less.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I was hoping for 449 but I can adjust to 500. I just hope I am able to snag a pre-order once they go live.

 

[IAmLegendary]

Nothing like an artificial shortage to raise people interest in the product ! Sony is really playing all their cards.

You still thing this is about artificial shortage and has nothing to do with factory shutting down or reduced working capacity due to covid-19?

 

[cireza]

You still thing this is about artificial shortage and has nothing to do with factory shutting down or reduced working capacity due to covid-19?

Well, that's what is written in the OP.

"The biggest impact from COVID 19 is on the reveal of PS5, not production or release".

 

[Yoda]

Anything over $500 is a risk they shouldn't take imo.

 

[IAmLegendary]

Well, that's what is written in the OP.

"The biggest impact from COVID 19 is on the reveal of PS5, not production or release".

And what exactly do sony gained by making artificial shortage aside from gaining less users and money ?

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Perhaps BOM includes these charges. If not, actual price to manufacturer could easily double that of BOM.

Retailers don't work below 20-30% margin.

This untrue. GameStop made $3 per PS4 and Xbox One at launch.

I know as I worked for GameStop and had detailed PNL statements for stores during launch.

 

[Jtibh]

500 US is 700 canadian plus gst so total of 735.

Thats the most i ever payed for a console even the ps3 was less.

Yeah i have the money but i dont think its a day one buy with no system sellers.

I'll wait. Lots to catch up on anyways.

 

[Starcheif]

Seems like there going to the Nintendo playbook of allowing demand to outstrip supply at launch, creating a lot of free marketing with stories of how it is the must have device of the holidays.

Yeah I feel like if the system does not sell great Sony/MS will just say it was because of supply problems in late 2020.

 

[cireza]

And what exactly do sony gained by making artificial shortage aside from gaining less users and money ?

So factories are not a problem anymore ?

Artificial shortage for a product in high demand will generate a lot of free buzz. It can be beneficial if handled correctly. People won't necessarily rush and buy something else in this situation, they will in fact desire even more the difficult to find product. Nothing new here, already happened in the past.

 

[geordiemp]

I smell bait. Funky, funky bait.

But if it's legit, it could be a yield-related issue and maybe the cooling system and SSD components (and the controller) are pricier than expected. Or they're the same as the BOM Bloomberg mentioned earlier, but the Japanese side won the debate (again) and they want to sell the console at-cost or at profit.

We shall see...

I think your barking up the wrong tree. ?

More likely the RDNA2 APU from AMD is more than the estimated costs people have used for 5700 die costs.

Remember RDNA2 is 50 % more efficient than RDNA1 per watt and from the presentation by AMD they suggested it was part EUV (probably critical layers). No way AMD and TSMC selling that APU cheaply, EUV is astronomical litho costs.

So the APUs are probably the bigger cost than airmchair analysts think, and will affect Ps5, XSX and Lockart by their respective die sizes equally.

My bet is Ps5 $ 500, XSX US$ 600, Lockart US$ 400.

 

[sublimit]

Some things in this article seem a bit strange and don't make sense to me.

Sony's PR regarding the PS5 has been quiet long before this whole corona thing first started so there's nothing that indicates that their marketing has changed during these months or that it will have problems in the coming months. Especially since Sony had decided a long time ago to skip E3 and focus on their own shows which they can still easily do through video conferences.

As for the prices mentioned this is either clickbait from bloomberg or it's a bluff by Sony to make MS announce their price before they officially do (which i don't think MS will eat it up and they will wait for Sony's official announcement)

 

[Arkam]

" Game developers who’ve been creating titles for the next PlayStation anticipate its price to be in the region of $499 to $549 "


LOLOLOLOL they have no clue the components in their devkit (or more importantly how the final box differs). $100 bet the developer doesnt even have the dual sense controller yet. This article read like a Forbes article.

 

[IAmLegendary]

So factories are not a problem anymore ?

Artificial shortage for a product in high demand will generate a lot of free buzz. It can be beneficial if handled correctly. People won't necessarily rush and buy something else in this situation, they will in fact desire even more the difficult to find product. Nothing new here, already happened in the past.

I never get the idea, theory or benefit for that ( making artificial shortage)

Sounds like a dumb move for me that doesnt make any sense at all

 

[psorcerer]

A 1TB that utilizes 4 chips is generally cheaper to manufacture than a 1TB design that utilizes 8.

How much cheaper exactly? That's the question.

 

[Gavon West]

The thread title is amazing:

You read the article and find that it might cost $449....

LOL at clickbaiting

it WILL cost $500

Sony better not sell the PS5 for $500. That won't be as widely accepted as some think, especially if the competition is the same price and more powerful. I think Sony may try $450 personally.

 

[IAmLegendary]

Sony better not sell the PS5 for $500. That won't be as widely accepted as some think, especially if the competition is the same price and more powerful. I think Sony may try $450 personally.

try PS5 $500 and Xbox X $600

that makes more sense to me if youre looking at the hardware inside it

 

[vaibhavpisal]

This untrue. GameStop made $3 per PS4 and Xbox One at launch.

I know as I worked for GameStop and had detailed PNL statements for stores during launch.

What? How do they pay the bills? Rent, electricity, salary of employees etc. I would earn more if I sold a t shirt.

For 3$ I wouldn't even ask employees to pack it up and give it to customer.

 

[Gavon West]

try PS5 $500 and Xbox X $600

that makes more sense to me if youre looking at the hardware inside it

Negative. Microsoft already said they won't be out priced by the competition like last time.

 

[IAmLegendary]

Negative. Microsoft already said they won't be out priced by the competition like last time.

Wel see about that

 

[mckmas8808]

In real world use the gpu will be 18-21.5% more powerful, possible higher if the PS5s GPU dips below 10tflops, but I dont think it will based on what cerny said.

And in real-world use, most people will not be able to see "that" much of a difference in resolution that's 15% different. Especially if the game is running at native 4K on the XSX and 1800p with CBR to 4K on the PS5.

 

[Gavon West]

Wel see about that

Yes. Yes we will...

 

[SakkanartSilentJealousy]

Not surprise if it's actually $499.
We have got $399 PS4 6 years ago with great h/w performance, that's crazy.

 

[mckmas8808]

What? How do they pay the bills? Rent, electricity, salary of employees etc. I would earn more if I sold a t shirt.

For 3$ I wouldn't even ask employees to pack it up and give it to customer.

That's why Gamespot is now closing down so many stores.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Negative. Microsoft already said they won't be out priced by the competition like last time.

I don’t think they will, but let’s not take PR messaging for what they are not. Very easily it can shift to “Value proposition”, and Lockhart seems to be a real thing and not a rumor.

 

[Gavon West]

I don’t think they will, but let’s not take PR messaging for what they are not. Very easily it can shift to “Value proposition”, and Lockhart seems to be a real thing and not a rumor.

True. But Microsoft isn't going to try and sell a machine for $600. Their in the process of a major comeback. And the economy won't allow for it by time these machines hit. Even if we weren't going through the shyte now, no one is going to buy a console for $600. Gaming is a luxury not necessity. Phil said it himself.

 

[SlimySnake]

This was the worst case scenario I had long feared with the narrow and fast approach. The amount of money you save on the silicon gets offset by a more expensive cooling solution, and you are left with a console that is just as expensive as your competition, but not as powerful.

It's a comedy of errors tbh. They wanted to launch in 2019, but didn't. Then they didnt go with a different chip and simply increased the clocks after delaying it for a year, still not enough to match the competition's tflops number. Then their bet on SSDs blew up in their face as prices went up leaving them with most likely a more expensive SSD and controller than the off the shelf ssd MS went with to reduce costs. Basically everything that could've gone wrong, did. Where as for MS, every decision they made turned out to be a genius one.

MS sacrificed RAM to save on power consumption AND costs, which allowed them to invest in a bigger silicon. Now they have a more powerful console, at least on paper, for the same price. This feels like a repeat of last gen where every decision Sony made ended up working out whereas every decision MS made from DDR3 to ESRAM resulting in a worse GPU blew up in their face. It sucks because the PS5 looks like a console designed by an engineer whereas the Series X and its focus on tflops above everything else was designed by a marketing exec. The marketing exec's design will probably end up offering better performance and might even sell better. Unfortunate but Sony should've seen this coming.

The only difference is that Sony's gimmick will help makes games better, but how many third party devs really take advantage of this ssd? I dont know if any would. I also dont see MS having supply issues. Their console is modular in design and is very easy to assemble. Their ssd isnt super custom and seems off the shelf. They should be able to ship more of these things.

Sony needs to forget about Japan. It no longer matters. It's not an important territory anymore. They just buy switch and other handheld games. They can wait. Ship those 6 million units in Europe and NA, and leave Japan for summer.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

What? How do they pay the bills? Rent, electricity, salary of employees etc. I would earn more if I sold a t shirt.

For 3$ I wouldn't even ask employees to pack it up and give it to customer.

Like a gas station that makes very little profit on gas, the profit is in the peripherals. Warranties, accessories, games (USED GAMES especially), MS/PS digital currency.

The add-on rate pushed by corporate at the PS4/One launch was 10 items added on. Be that warranty (pure profit), accessories (20% profit if first party, +80% profit if GameStop brand), games (about $8 profit per new games so 13% profit, +70% profit AT LEAST on most used games), digital currency I believe was also 20% profit.

Also, funny that you mentioned t-shirts. Why do you think GameStop turned into a T-shirt/toy store? The profit is insane on these items. POPS were one of the best things to happen to GameStop. They cost about $1 each when bought in bulk.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Stop talking like it's 1996. It's 2020! The PS5 (and XSX) will be able to play all our current games in higher framerates and better resolutions. PLUS, with an SSD my quality of life while playing (TLOU2, Ghost of Tshumia, CyberPunk 2077, etc) these games will all be better than playing them on my PS4 Pro.

I don't need great 2nd generation games to enjoy a new-gen. That's the old way of thinking.

..having had that little rant, do you feel better?

 

[South]

Both will be $500, the xsx wont be more expensive.
Also with Xlcoud if I can get the same xbox games gamepass style then more PC users and mobile users can take up adoption faster than the ps5, which means 3rd party games will be designed for that larger market.

 

[Kerotan Frog]

Yikes. I'm going to get my preorder in as soon as its announced. I'm so hype for next gen. And with the BC with PS4, I can play games I haven't finished with an upgrade. We really do need to see the launch games soon.

 

[JimboJones]

Be interesting, the SSD in PS5 could end up putting them in a similar price point as Xbox despite the weaker hardware.
There probably going to be a £50 difference whatever the price but just depends how.much of the cost both are willing to eat

 

[Agnostic2020]

This was the worst case scenario I had long feared with the narrow and fast approach. The amount of money you save on the silicon gets offset by a more expensive cooling solution, and you are left with a console that is just as expensive as your competition, but not as powerful.

It's a comedy of errors tbh. They wanted to launch in 2019, but didn't. Then they didnt go with a different chip and simply increased the clocks after delaying it for a year, still not enough to match the competition's tflops number. Then their bet on SSDs blew up in their face as prices went up leaving them with most likely a more expensive SSD and controller than the off the shelf ssd MS went with to reduce costs. Basically everything that could've gone wrong, did. Where as for MS, every decision they made turned out to be a genius one.

MS sacrificed RAM to save on power consumption AND costs, which allowed them to invest in a bigger silicon. Now they have a more powerful console, at least on paper, for the same price. This feels like a repeat of last gen where every decision Sony made ended up working out whereas every decision MS made from DDR3 to ESRAM resulting in a worse GPU blew up in their face. It sucks because the PS5 looks like a console designed by an engineer whereas the Series X and its focus on tflops above everything else was designed by a marketing exec. The marketing exec's design will probably end up offering better performance and might even sell better. Unfortunate but Sony should've seen this coming.

The only difference is that Sony's gimmick will help makes games better, but how many third party devs really take advantage of this ssd? I dont know if any would. I also dont see MS having supply issues. Their console is modular in design and is very easy to assemble. Their ssd isnt super custom and seems off the shelf. They should be able to ship more of these things.

Sony needs to forget about Japan. It no longer matters. It's not an important territory anymore. They just buy switch and other handheld games. They can wait. Ship those 6 million units in Europe and NA, and leave Japan for summer.

But its not repeat of ps4 and x1. X1 was 45% weaker and had a much worse ram yet it was 100$ more. So again how is it repeat of last gen ? Ram is better on ps5, gpu is weaker 18% and ssd is better on ps5.

 

[Jigsaah]

I smell bullshit. How is COVID19 affecting Sony in this way, but not Microsoft?

 

[Agnostic2020]

I smell bullshit. How is COVID19 affecting Sony in this way, but not Microsoft?

It says both of them at the end of article

 

[BluRayHiDef]

This was the worst case scenario I had long feared with the narrow and fast approach. The amount of money you save on the silicon gets offset by a more expensive cooling solution, and you are left with a console that is just as expensive as your competition, but not as powerful.

It's a comedy of errors tbh. They wanted to launch in 2019, but didn't. Then they didnt go with a different chip and simply increased the clocks after delaying it for a year, still not enough to match the competition's tflops number. Then their bet on SSDs blew up in their face as prices went up leaving them with most likely a more expensive SSD and controller than the off the shelf ssd MS went with to reduce costs. Basically everything that could've gone wrong, did. Where as for MS, every decision they made turned out to be a genius one.

MS sacrificed RAM to save on power consumption AND costs, which allowed them to invest in a bigger silicon. Now they have a more powerful console, at least on paper, for the same price. This feels like a repeat of last gen where every decision Sony made ended up working out whereas every decision MS made from DDR3 to ESRAM resulting in a worse GPU blew up in their face. It sucks because the PS5 looks like a console designed by an engineer whereas the Series X and its focus on tflops above everything else was designed by a marketing exec. The marketing exec's design will probably end up offering better performance and might even sell better. Unfortunate but Sony should've seen this coming.

The only difference is that Sony's gimmick will help makes games better, but how many third party devs really take advantage of this ssd? I dont know if any would. I also dont see MS having supply issues. Their console is modular in design and is very easy to assemble. Their ssd isnt super custom and seems off the shelf. They should be able to ship more of these things.

Sony needs to forget about Japan. It no longer matters. It's not an important territory anymore. They just buy switch and other handheld games. They can wait. Ship those 6 million units in Europe and NA, and leave Japan for summer.

You sound ridiculous. Sony has produced a console that is only 15.4% slower at most in regard to all aspects of GPU performance except rasterization but that is potentially 23.28% faster in regard to rasterization. Hence, their box is essentially just as powerful and has a significantly faster I/O system thanks to its decompression chips and insanely fast SSD (5.5GB/s [uncompressed data] and 8-9GB/s compressed data). So, no, this isn't a worst case scenario; their box is truly innovative and can potentially cause a paradigm shift in terms of game design.

The insanely fast I/O system will enable developers to reduce the amount of data that they have to load into RAM per clock cycle since they'll be able to load only the data necessary to render what's in the player's field of view during a particular clock cycle; this is in stark contrast to the traditional required method of loading what could be in players' fields of view since the speed at which players have been able to change their fields of view has been faster than the speeds at which systems have been able to load data into RAM. Hence, the PS5's GPU will be able to focus its rendering power on a fraction of what a GPU has had to focus its rendering power. The XSX's SSD is fast but not fast enough to do what the PS5 can.

 

[Jigsaah]

It says both of them at the end of article

What I meant is Microsoft has more than revealed their console, COVID19 or not. I'm questioning whether COVID19 is affecting Sony's ability to reveal the console.

Sorry shoulda been more specific.

 

[geordiemp]

This was the worst case scenario I had long feared with the narrow and fast approach. The amount of money you save on the silicon gets offset by a more expensive cooling solution, and you are left with a console that is just as expensive as your competition, but not as powerful.

It's a comedy of errors tbh. They wanted to launch in 2019, but didn't. Then they didnt go with a different chip and simply increased the clocks after delaying it for a year, still not enough to match the competition's tflops number. Then their bet on SSDs blew up in their face as prices went up leaving them with most likely a more expensive SSD and controller than the off the shelf ssd MS went with to reduce costs. Basically everything that could've gone wrong, did. Where as for MS, every decision they made turned out to be a genius one.

MS sacrificed RAM to save on power consumption AND costs, which allowed them to invest in a bigger silicon. Now they have a more powerful console, at least on paper, for the same price. This feels like a repeat of last gen where every decision Sony made ended up working out whereas every decision MS made from DDR3 to ESRAM resulting in a worse GPU blew up in their face. It sucks because the PS5 looks like a console designed by an engineer whereas the Series X and its focus on tflops above everything else was designed by a marketing exec. The marketing exec's design will probably end up offering better performance and might even sell better. Unfortunate but Sony should've seen this coming.

The only difference is that Sony's gimmick will help makes games better, but how many third party devs really take advantage of this ssd? I dont know if any would. I also dont see MS having supply issues. Their console is modular in design and is very easy to assemble. Their ssd isnt super custom and seems off the shelf. They should be able to ship more of these things.

Sony needs to forget about Japan. It no longer matters. It's not an important territory anymore. They just buy switch and other handheld games. They can wait. Ship those 6 million units in Europe and NA, and leave Japan for summer.

No.

Your assumption is the higher cost is all cooling and then straight into conspiracy and how Sony messed up.

What do we actually know for sure ?

1. Sony has a patent on a novel cooling method - lets see it first shall we before you run offf with theories ?

2. We have no costs for RDNA2 which is 50 % per watt improvement over RDNA1. Most armchair prices assume die sizes and costs of RDNA1, but NOBODY knows pricing of RDNA2 as there are no silicon on sale yet.

If the Sony system has a crazy expensive cooling system, go nuts. But they are proud of it it seems, so dont be so sure, as expensive cooling = fail.

 

[SlimySnake]

But its not repeat of ps4 and x1. X1 was 45% weaker and had a much worse ram yet it was 100$ more. So again how is it repeat of last gen ? Ram is better on ps5, gpu is weaker 18% and ssd is better on ps5.

It's a repeat of last gen as in how every decision made by MS blew up in their face. They went with a gimmick (Kinect/SSD) which increased the BoM. The multimedia focus made them go with DDR3 and ESRAM, the latter of which made the die bigger but left even smaller space for the GPU CUs. Same seems to be happening with all the custom i/o for the PS5 resulting in fewer CUs and fewer tflops. And finally, similar to how the DDR3 prices went up, the nand price hike is affecting sony more because their ssd is heavily customized, is far more powerful and cannot be mass produced in the same capacity like MS's off the shelf solution.

Like I said, the only difference is that the PS5's gimmick is going to benefit gamers, but it might not be apparent to all gamers and you certainly cant advertise it like you can a tflops advantage.

I smell bullshit. How is COVID19 affecting Sony in this way, but not Microsoft?

the article says covid19 isnt affecting sony.

 

[saintjules]

cmon gamestop, make one of your "we take your old console for a substantial discount one the new one" deal so i can make my preorder.

Man, I really wanted to pre-order there with them. But with what's going on now, it looks like I'll have to pre-order/buy it online at like a Best Buy this time around.

 

[Jigga117]

I love how all of a sudden more than $500 is fine lol

 

[mckmas8808]

..having had that little rant, do you feel better?

LOL!!! You call that a rant?

 

[Jigsaah]

the article says covid19 isnt affecting sony.

The OP quotes:

"The biggest impact from COVID 19 is on the reveal of PS5, not production or release".

again, my question is how does COVID 19 affect the reveal of the console for Sony when it obviously hasn't affected the reveal for Microsoft?

I shouldn't say this is bs...but I would like to know specifically how this is taking place.

 

[Agnostic2020]

The OP quotes:

"The biggest impact from COVID 19 is on the reveal of PS5, not production or release".

again, my question is how does COVID 19 affect the reveal of the console for Sony when it obviously hasn't affected the reveal for Microsoft?

Well they were probably planing to do it in a big live event with many devs but that is screwed now.so either they wait and do it that way in 2 months or they do it online .

 

[GymWolf]

Man, I really wanted to pre-order there with them. But with what's going on now, it looks like I'll have to pre-order/buy it online at like a Best Buy this time around.

i think they are gonna open gamestop in a couple of weeks during phase 2, they can keep closed every videogames store.

 

[Agnostic2020]

It's a repeat of last gen as in how every decision made by MS blew up in their face. They went with a gimmick (Kinect/SSD) which increased the BoM. The multimedia focus made them go with DDR3 and ESRAM, the latter of which made the die bigger but left even smaller space for the GPU CUs. Same seems to be happening with all the custom i/o for the PS5 resulting in fewer CUs and fewer tflops. And finally, similar to how the DDR3 prices went up, the nand price hike is affecting sony more because their ssd is heavily customized, is far more powerful and cannot be mass produced in the same capacity like MS's off the shelf solution.

Like I said, the only difference is that the PS5's gimmick is going to benefit gamers, but it might not be apparent to all gamers and you certainly cant advertise it like you can a tflops advantage.

the article says covid19 isnt affecting sony.

Well they could easily say ps5: worlds fastest consoles for marketing stuff its easily understood by consumers and its a true statement.

 

[SlimySnake]

No.

Your assumption is the higher cost is all cooling and then straight into conspiracy and how Sony messed up.

What do we actually know for sure ?

1. Sony has a patent on a novel cooling method - lets see it first shall we before you run offf with theories ?

2. We have no costs for RDNA2 which is 50 % per watt improvement over RDNA1. Most armchair prices assume die sizes and costs of RDNA1, but NOBODY knows pricing of RDNA2 as there are no silicon on sale yet.

If the Sony system has a crazy expensive cooling system, go nuts. But they are proud of it it seems, so dont be so sure, as expensive cooling = fail.

Well, not just higher cooling costs. They also have a more expensive controller (See the coretech video) and a heavily customized, far more powerful SSD. See my post above.

Whatever the pricing of the RDNA2 card will be, it will affect sony and ms the same. The silicon for the PS4 and Xbox One cost Sony and MS $100 and $110 each. MS paid more because theirs was slightly bigger at around 35mm2 more. The difference should be the same this time around with how much I/O stuff sony has cramed in there.