Hopefully they tell their story better. Guerrilla Games got way too cute in their chapter transitions in Killzone:Shadowfall and the story was just stilted and badly paced.
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NPD Sales Results for November 2015 [Up3: Combined Hardware For PS4 + XB1 + Wii U]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Hopefully they tell their story better. Guerrilla Games got way too cute in their chapter transitions in Killzone:Shadowfall and the story was just stilted and badly paced.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Have you not played Uncharted? Nathan Drake is a ruthless killer. The fear was justified.
Have you not played Rise of the Tomb Raider? Ok, yeah, no one's really played it. Carry on.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
No I meant SE will putting all their marketing into FFXV next Fall so they won't bother trying to market ROTR on PS4.
serversurfer
Member
So when the Tomb Raider deal was announced, Phil went to Eurogamer and basically said, "Hey, all I can say is it's exclusive to XBox right now. If you wanna know what happens after that, you'll need to ask Square." And it sounds like he then turned to Square and said, "Oh, you want to be able to answer them? Fair enough
what are you willing to give up?"
So basically, Phil played them like a fiddle.
So basically, Phil played them like a fiddle.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
They hired an experienced writer of RPGs so hopefully that will pay off.
It has been said they tried to money hat Mass Effect, but EA said no. I would have been just as pissed about that too.
Welfare
Member
Phil is the master planner Xbox needs ands deserves.
From a Kagari post MS tried to get Mass Effect (first as a full exclusive for Xbox/PC and then timed) but EA was saying nope.
Stilton Disco
Member
I actually think they'll be better off with a more RPG like set up for storytelling than they have been FPS's.
They're good at lore, world building, and overarching narratives. It's the small scale stuff and trying to tell a story through the eyes of an Everyman, typical space marine shooter protaganist where things go tits up.
Having a more vulnerable, less knowledgable heroine to discover the world alongside the player, and hopefully side quests and interactive NPC's to learn from and indulge in character moments with, could be exactly what they need.
Or it'll still be pretty looking bollocks. But hey, there'll still be robot fucking dinosaurs!
Oh! That should help too! Wicked.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Finale Fireworker
Member
Come over here and say that, you son of a bitch.
[*falls down and also rips my pants, my Lara Croft boxer shorts are fully exposed*]
I mentioned the deal changed in a different thread but some people didn't believe~
Yeah but MS and SE never specifically said it at first.
Can't believe how afraid MS and SE are afraid of Uncharted 4.
Naughty Dog has played the both of the like fiddles.
I imagine Phil Rodgers.
ethomaz
Banned
What I can tell is 1.5 (digital) : 1 (retail) means each retail copy sold you sell 1.5 digital... that means digital is 60% of the sales and retail 40%.
Crazy no?
A 20% digital of the sales means a 1 (digital) : 4 (retail) ratio.
Tinfoil hat time:
What if ... it was all intentional? Everything.
Oh, not from S-E, what interest would they have to waste millions of $, mismanage a property worth $millions and devalue it, and pissing off the fan base they have on the leading current platform?
No.
What if ... Microsoft and Crystal Dynamics have been talking to each other behind their back for a while now, with a concerted effort and goal to both render S-E deeply unhappy with the Crystal Dynamics management/ team, but also in the situation of not knowing what to do with a Franchise that would have been run into the ground by a calculated effort from both MS and CD?
I know, crazy.
To what end would you ask? Well ... With the hope that CD would eventually split semi-amicably from Square, sign a check to S-E for their trouble with the Tomb Raider IP and walk off into the sunset with it ... To then find immediately a new home with Microsoft Studios.
Impossible you say? I would have thought so a few years back, but then again Day Break ran away from Sony with Everquest, Planetside and H1Z1 among other franchises.
Proof? None of course, it's merely insanity and conjectures here.
But ...
- "someone" stuffed S-E's spreadsheets with insane potential sales numbers (cf the forecasts for the first new Tomb Raider)
- "someone" has been super-pals with Microsoft since Underworld, and not really being shy about it. An ex-employee revealed some nasty stuff done for the lifetime exclusive DLC back then*.
- Somehow, Microsoft found leverage to convince S-E to sign away the temporary rights for 1 game a AAA franchise that was closely associated with the now leading platform WW, which also happened to be the platform the last game sold most on. Then made it an exclusive for up to a year on said platform.
- Somehow, MS after becoming the publisher saw fit to bundle the title in a 1Tb $399 bundle (instead of $349), which would THEN be exclusive to 1 retailer in the US AND not even be sold in the biggest European market where the franchise even ORIGINATED from (UK).
- MS then bungled the reveal of the exclusivity SO much, that they managed to make the backlash even WORSE than if they just had come forward and said: it's exclusive for the end of 2015, coming to other platforms later in 2016. It was mismanaged so much, for such a simple thing, that the announcement itself and its handling for the following month+ was mind boggling.
- Everything we have learned since reeks of sabotage, from choosing the release date to coincide with the OTHER third party title MS had a partnership with, Fallout 4, which though in a 1Tb $399 bundle, was in its case not restricted to a single retailer -And- sold in the UK.
I don't know...
I read this, and it sounds completely crazy, I know.
But ... in some deranged and insane way, it also sort of make sense to explain some of the stuff that happened and S-E signing on all that.
So .. no I don't "believe" that this actually happened. As I said, it is insane. But then again, if months from now Crystal Dynamics happens to join MS Studios, possibly bringing along Tomb Raider (S-E would be fools to let it go btw) ...
Would we be THAT surprised?
* http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/88589-Ex-Crystal-Dynamics-Employees-Spill-the-Beans
What if ... it was all intentional? Everything.
Oh, not from S-E, what interest would they have to waste millions of $, mismanage a property worth $millions and devalue it, and pissing off the fan base they have on the leading current platform?
No.
What if ... Microsoft and Crystal Dynamics have been talking to each other behind their back for a while now, with a concerted effort and goal to both render S-E deeply unhappy with the Crystal Dynamics management/ team, but also in the situation of not knowing what to do with a Franchise that would have been run into the ground by a calculated effort from both MS and CD?
I know, crazy.
To what end would you ask? Well ... With the hope that CD would eventually split semi-amicably from Square, sign a check to S-E for their trouble with the Tomb Raider IP and walk off into the sunset with it ... To then find immediately a new home with Microsoft Studios.
Impossible you say? I would have thought so a few years back, but then again Day Break ran away from Sony with Everquest, Planetside and H1Z1 among other franchises.
Proof? None of course, it's merely insanity and conjectures here.
But ...
- "someone" stuffed S-E's spreadsheets with insane potential sales numbers (cf the forecasts for the first new Tomb Raider)
- "someone" has been super-pals with Microsoft since Underworld, and not really being shy about it. An ex-employee revealed some nasty stuff done for the lifetime exclusive DLC back then*.
- Somehow, Microsoft found leverage to convince S-E to sign away the temporary rights for 1 game a AAA franchise that was closely associated with the now leading platform WW, which also happened to be the platform the last game sold most on. Then made it an exclusive for up to a year on said platform.
- Somehow, MS after becoming the publisher saw fit to bundle the title in a 1Tb $399 bundle (instead of $349), which would THEN be exclusive to 1 retailer in the US AND not even be sold in the biggest European market where the franchise even ORIGINATED from (UK).
- MS then bungled the reveal of the exclusivity SO much, that they managed to make the backlash even WORSE than if they just had come forward and said: it's exclusive for the end of 2015, coming to other platforms later in 2016. It was mismanaged so much, for such a simple thing, that the announcement itself and its handling for the following month+ was mind boggling.
- Everything we have learned since reeks of sabotage, from choosing the release date to coincide with the OTHER third party title MS had a partnership with, Fallout 4, which though in a 1Tb $399 bundle, was in its case not restricted to a single retailer -And- sold in the UK.
I don't know...
I read this, and it sounds completely crazy, I know.
But ... in some deranged and insane way, it also sort of make sense to explain some of the stuff that happened and S-E signing on all that.
So .. no I don't "believe" that this actually happened. As I said, it is insane. But then again, if months from now Crystal Dynamics happens to join MS Studios, possibly bringing along Tomb Raider (S-E would be fools to let it go btw) ...
Would we be THAT surprised?
* http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/88589-Ex-Crystal-Dynamics-Employees-Spill-the-Beans
opticalmace
Member
Crazy indeed, but the guy I quoted said they didn't understand how ratios worked. Seemed liked they were using them correctly, though not necessarily reflecting reality.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Haha, I wouldn't say Naughty Dog played anyone.
It's like....
Naughty Dog: better delay Uncharted 4 by a few months to polish it up.
Square/Micrsoft: oh god oh god oh god, Uncharted 4, Uncharted 4, Uncharted 4.......
Too wrapped up in making strange business decisions out of fear and therefore cutting it from the mass audience. Incompetent.
DamonForever
Member
Oh wow, I figured something was up with the sudden leeway at announcing other versions of Rise of the Tomb Raider, but I assumed MS paid for an extra 6 months exclusivity in order to allow SE to announce the game on other platforms. To think SE maybe got nothing but just the ability to announce it is mind boggling.
No, SE, I wasn't going to get the game straight-away/new if it had a 6 months delay, let alone a 1 year delay. They didn't even need to do it, it had been so shady that people assumed timed exclusivity.
Of course, now this likely means the PC version is coming in 5 months, so no I'm not getting it until there's a massive discount. I had so much hype when they first showed the game, now the series can die a slow death for all I care.
No, SE, I wasn't going to get the game straight-away/new if it had a 6 months delay, let alone a 1 year delay. They didn't even need to do it, it had been so shady that people assumed timed exclusivity.
Of course, now this likely means the PC version is coming in 5 months, so no I'm not getting it until there's a massive discount. I had so much hype when they first showed the game, now the series can die a slow death for all I care.
Kralamoonard
Member
Tinfoil hat time:
What if ... it was all intentional? Everything.
Oh, not from S-E, what interest would they have to waste millions of $, mismanage a property worth $millions and devalue it, and pissing off the fan base they have on the leading current platform?
No.
What if ... Microsoft and Crystal Dynamics have been talking to each other behind their back for a while now, with a concerted effort and goal to both render S-E deeply unhappy with the Crystal Dynamics management/ team, but also in the situation of not knowing what to do with a Franchise that would have been run into the ground by a calculated effort from both MS and CD?
I know, crazy.
To what end would you ask? Well ... With the hope that CD would eventually split semi-amicably from Square, sign a check to S-E for their trouble with the Tomb Raider IP and walk off into the sunset with it ... To then find immediately a new home with Microsoft Studios.
Impossible you say? I would have thought so a few years back, but then again Day Break ran away from Sony with Everquest, Planetside and H1Z1 among other franchises.
Proof? None of course, it's merely insanity and conjectures here.
But ...
- "someone" stuffed S-E's spreadsheets with insane potential sales numbers (cf the forecasts for the first new Tomb Raider)
- "someone" has been super-pals with Microsoft since Underworld, and not really being shy about it. An ex-employee revealed some nasty stuff done for the lifetime exclusive DLC back then.
- Somehow, Microsoft found leverage to convince S-E to sign away the temporary rights for 1 game a AAA franchise that was closely associated with the now leading platform WW, which also happened to be the platform the last game sold most on. Then made it an exclusive for up to a year on said platform.
- Somehow, MS after becoming the publisher saw fit to bundle the title in a 1Tb $399 bundle (instead of $349), which would THEN be exclusive to 1 retailer in the US AND not even be sold in the biggest European market where the franchise even ORIGINATED from (UK).
- Everything we have learned since reeks of sabotage, from choosing the release date to coincide with the OTHER third party title MS had a partnership with, Fallout 4, which though in a 1Tb $399 bundle, was in its case not restricted to a single retailer -And- sold in the UK.
I don't know...
I read this, and it sounds completely crazy, I know.
But ... in some deranged and insane way, it also sort of make sense to explain some of the stuff that happened and S-E signing on all that.
So .. no I don't "believe" that this actually happened. As I said, it is insane. But then again, if months from now Crystal Dynamics happens to join MS Studios, possibly bringing along Tomb Raider (S-E would be fools to let it go btw) ...
Would we be THAT surprised?
Holy shit, whilst this does sound batshit insane it also doesn't seem that extremely out of the ordinary far fetched lol.
Although I'm sure it's not true, it's not crazy to realise a pattern lol; I mean I guess if someone at CD joined MS studios or CD became somehow a first party studio it wouldn't look crazy in hindsight, but yeah...I don't think so.
wolfhowwl
Banned
EA is already intimately familiar with how exclusivity can affect the long-term growth of a franchise with Mass Effect.
ethomaz
Banned
Well I'm just quoting because I think it is pretty hard to have a digital:retail sales ratio at 1.5:1... that means 60% of the sales are digital... maybe PC games?
Tinfoil hat time:
What if ... it was all intentional? Everything.
Oh, not from S-E, what interest would they have to waste millions of $, mismanage a property worth $millions and devalue it, and pissing off the fan base they have on the leading current platform?
No.
What if ... Microsoft and Crystal Dynamics have been talking to each other behind their back for a while now, with a concerted effort and goal to both render S-E deeply unhappy with the Crystal Dynamics management/ team, but also in the situation of not knowing what to do with a Franchise that would have been run into the ground by a calculated effort from both MS and CD?
I know, crazy.
To what end would you ask? Well ... With the hope that CD would eventually split semi-amicably from Square, sign a check to S-E for their trouble with the Tomb Raider IP and walk off into the sunset with it ... To then find immediately a new home with Microsoft Studios.
Impossible you say? I would have thought so a few years back, but then again Day Break ran away from Sony with Everquest, Planetside and H1Z1 among other franchises.
Proof? None of course, it's merely insanity and conjectures here.
But ...
- "someone" stuffed S-E's spreadsheets with insane potential sales numbers (cf the forecasts for the first new Tomb Raider)
- "someone" has been super-pals with Microsoft since Underworld, and not really being shy about it. An ex-employee revealed some nasty stuff done for the lifetime exclusive DLC back then*.
- Somehow, Microsoft found leverage to convince S-E to sign away the temporary rights for 1 game a AAA franchise that was closely associated with the now leading platform WW, which also happened to be the platform the last game sold most on. Then made it an exclusive for up to a year on said platform.
- Somehow, MS after becoming the publisher saw fit to bundle the title in a 1Tb $399 bundle (instead of $349), which would THEN be exclusive to 1 retailer in the US AND not even be sold in the biggest European market where the franchise even ORIGINATED from (UK).
- MS then bungled the reveal of the exclusivity SO much, that they managed to make the backlash even WORSE than if they just had come forward and said: it's exclusive for the end of 2015, coming to other platforms later in 2016. It was mismanaged so much, for such a simple thing, that the announcement itself and its handling for the following month+ was mind boggling.
- Everything we have learned since reeks of sabotage, from choosing the release date to coincide with the OTHER third party title MS had a partnership with, Fallout 4, which though in a 1Tb $399 bundle, was in its case not restricted to a single retailer -And- sold in the UK.
I don't know...
I read this, and it sounds completely crazy, I know.
But ... in some deranged and insane way, it also sort of make sense to explain some of the stuff that happened and S-E signing on all that.
So .. no I don't "believe" that this actually happened. As I said, it is insane. But then again, if months from now Crystal Dynamics happens to join MS Studios, possibly bringing along Tomb Raider (S-E would be fools to let it go btw) ...
Would we be THAT surprised?
* http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/88589-Ex-Crystal-Dynamics-Employees-Spill-the-Beans
The problem would be if the decisions makers at CD did this they could get sued for conducting business in bad faith.
It would also be super risky as there is no guarentee S-E won't just shutter the studio and keep the IP. If they wanted to move to MS studios they could just quit.
That was my point. I should have probably used standard notation.
If they had made a bad game filled with glitches they could, but by all account they did a really good one... So what's to be proven really?
IF anything close to that will happen, we will never know it and there will be nothing to prove anything. Just suspicion at seeing the resulting move.
But then again, it's all very crazy theories anyway.
Wait what???
Square Enix asked MS to be able to announce the other versions earlier because of low pre-orders but accepted to extend the exclusivity period in exchange?
Ahahah that's so dumb that I find it incredible to believe! Who's running this company?
In a single move they made the Xbox One version less attractive and yet they killed their chances of success with the PS4 version.
Square Enix asked MS to be able to announce the other versions earlier because of low pre-orders but accepted to extend the exclusivity period in exchange?
Ahahah that's so dumb that I find it incredible to believe! Who's running this company?
In a single move they made the Xbox One version less attractive and yet they killed their chances of success with the PS4 version.
Welfare
Member
That doesn't read like it's filled with passion.
Studios get shuttered for sales not quality. Lots of studios made terrible games but kept rolling because the sales were enough to justify making the game. But some studios get shuttered for making good games. Like Bioshock:Infinity. This would mean also they were banking on low low sales despite giving their best shot. I don't think that's likely.
I think the simpler answer is S-E brass over estimated the appeal of the TR franchise. It'd be in line with their comments for the original reboot. They're still over estimating it because they think hyping the PS4 version sooner will mean more sales vs releasing it sooner.
The guys who bet their future on the Spirits Within.
Non compete clauses are a thing. Not always there but not exactly rare either. Never really enforced in an amicable seperation, and rarely in a termination of contract by the employer. When the people quit though that's when they can be there anytime up to a year or two, especially for the higher ups.
I still can't beleive all of this is true. If it is then no one has benefited from this deal. Microsoft got little to nothing out of it since it didn't serve it's goal and they are probably wasted their money. Square have wasted the time, money and effort it took to reboot the franchise to success and will have diminished sales going forward. Sure the franchise will still do well, but there's an opportunity cost that probably hit them when the series coiuld have done even better. And lastly the general gaming audience and fans didn't get anything either. It's just a lose lose lose situation every which way you look at it. Just a sense of festering negativity for what will last years after the PS4 release for no reward for anyone.
illmatic22
Banned
Fucking Square Enix. HAHAHAHA
Giriath_89
Member
This deal is the gift that keeps on giving. Everything they've done has made the situation worse.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
I'm under the impression that Crystal Dynamics wants to be a Xbox first party studio. Between them only developing Xbox versions of their games, this deal and how proudly talked about having Lara on stage with Master Chief and Marcus Fenix and being like first party...maybe SE should sell the studio to Microsoft, but keep the Tomb Raider IP.
spatenfloot
Member
I think you mean "Have you SEEN RotTR?"
cartographer
Member
When this deal was likely made it probably didn't look like so much of a disaster. The Xbox One hadn't bombed so hard yet outside NA/UK, nobody knew what the release window would really look like and SE probably got a ton of money.
Since then, I have to think something soured between SE and MS because they surely have people that know how bad this was going to do as time went on.
Everyone called this result the moment they announced exclusivity. How people outside the gaming industry have more foresight than decision makers at Square Enix is pretty damning of Square Enix's management.
Primethius
Banned
Bish confirmed...
My god, SE actually did everything in thier power to make this game flop.
My god, SE actually did everything in thier power to make this game flop.
Given their business track record, they'd sell it for -10 million dollars and bundle in the Dragon Quest franchise by accident.