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NPD Sales Results for November 2015 [Up3: Combined Hardware For PS4 + XB1 + Wii U]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
xDamnYouSalazar
Banned
No, people are laughing because they're entitled Sony fanboys who feel slighted because someone didn't kowtow to them for a change and they're petty about it. If the shoe were on the other foot surely people's faux integrity nonsense would cease to exist.
Seriously though, it's not the game people are rooting against. It's the deal.
Edit: Posted while I was posting.
Don't do this. Nothing good will come of it.
boredandlazy
Member
I still remember seeing this tweet posted here
https://mobile.twitter.com/karlstewart/status/216696796821467136
No fuck given lol
Uncle Obscure
Member
I can possibly see why MS would have wanted ROTR as an exclusive, but what I don't get is why S-E would agree to such lopsided terms. I think the timing of the deal possibly has a lot to do with it.
If you recall, U4 was originally slated as a Fall 2015 release. I suspect Microsoft looked at TR as a way to potentially blunt some of the impact of the Naughty Dog juggernaut and help keep the Xbox faithful from jumping ship. "Hey all you Xboxers...we have our own Uncharted-like experience on Xbox One, plus we have Halo and they don't! There's no need to go elsewhere."
I also have to think this deal was put to bed before Sony and ND announced that Uncharted 4 was being pushed back to March 2016.
Had Uncharted launched when originally planned, then this deal seems to make more sense from a Square-Enix standpoint. It's a good bet that TR would have had a difficult time competing head-to-head with U4. But, If S-E partnered with MS and made it a console exclusive (timed or otherwise), then the upfront cash they'd get from that arrangement could go a long way towards covering any sales shortfall to the competition.
Where things fall apart is after Sony announces the delay. In the end, TR has the market all to itself in Q4, but S-E can't take advantage of the situation. The whole scenario is bad news for Square-Enix. Now, Tomb Raider looks like damaged goods, regardless of the quality of the game.
On a side note, I had $40 in Target gift cards last week, so I picked up a copy of ROTR for free. It marks the fourth Xbox One game I've gotten since getting the system. I'm only about six hours in, but I like it...not as much as any of the Uncharted games, but it is well-crafted and fun to play. It certainly deserves better than what it has gotten so far.
If you recall, U4 was originally slated as a Fall 2015 release. I suspect Microsoft looked at TR as a way to potentially blunt some of the impact of the Naughty Dog juggernaut and help keep the Xbox faithful from jumping ship. "Hey all you Xboxers...we have our own Uncharted-like experience on Xbox One, plus we have Halo and they don't! There's no need to go elsewhere."
I also have to think this deal was put to bed before Sony and ND announced that Uncharted 4 was being pushed back to March 2016.
Had Uncharted launched when originally planned, then this deal seems to make more sense from a Square-Enix standpoint. It's a good bet that TR would have had a difficult time competing head-to-head with U4. But, If S-E partnered with MS and made it a console exclusive (timed or otherwise), then the upfront cash they'd get from that arrangement could go a long way towards covering any sales shortfall to the competition.
Where things fall apart is after Sony announces the delay. In the end, TR has the market all to itself in Q4, but S-E can't take advantage of the situation. The whole scenario is bad news for Square-Enix. Now, Tomb Raider looks like damaged goods, regardless of the quality of the game.
On a side note, I had $40 in Target gift cards last week, so I picked up a copy of ROTR for free. It marks the fourth Xbox One game I've gotten since getting the system. I'm only about six hours in, but I like it...not as much as any of the Uncharted games, but it is well-crafted and fun to play. It certainly deserves better than what it has gotten so far.
welp.
If SE includes a demo code ala FF Type 0 HD, RISEPS4 will sell truck loads.
Holy shit, SE can save the sinking ship!!
boredandlazy
Member
Trolling or not, I feel sorry for people like you.
None of this makes any sense as the original plan ment going against multi platform Fallout 4, Blops3, Starwars BF, Need for speed etc etc and single platform Uncharted 4.
"Today" it does not compete against Uncharted 4 and the defence/thinking is that it failed because it had one less competitor? The plan SE/MS came up with is unmitigated lunacy in it's conception and execution.
Sony will not give even a second to TR in any of their stage shows.
Might want to take it down just a notch or two
The Mad Draklor
Member
You must be fun at parties...
Actually, MS let Bungie work on a new ip while Halo 2 was under development. That ended poorly, due to Bungie being unable to handle both.
boredandlazy
Member
Uncle Obscure
Member
Sorry, I was referring to an "apples to apples" comparison between Rise of the Tomb Raider and Uncharted 4. I guess I should have been clearer about that.
Also, do you honestly think if Uncharted 4 launched when originally planned, it would have suffered against any of the multi platform titles you mentioned?
IMO, that's the big difference between the two games, U4 is going sell well against any and all competition. ROTR, on the other hand, has demonstrated it cannot. That's why if U4 came out when originally planned, the MS deal might have made more fiscal sense to S-E.
DamonForever
Member
I'm surprised people are suggesting SE hold a FFVIIR demo hostage under RotTR. I'd imagine that would piss more people off, something I don't think SE wants more of.
Sure, they've done it before, but it got called out back then too. Rather than prop up RotTR, it might harm FFVIIR.
Sure, they've done it before, but it got called out back then too. Rather than prop up RotTR, it might harm FFVIIR.
funkystudent
Member
Rise of the Tomb Raider PS4 will now be releasing close to FF15 (IF it hits next year as planned)
I dont think you would bundle a FF7 demo with Tomb Raider if its releasing a month apart from the actual Final Fantasy game you want to sell.
I dont think you would bundle a FF7 demo with Tomb Raider if its releasing a month apart from the actual Final Fantasy game you want to sell.
serversurfer
Member
Oh, MS let Bungie work on something else while they continued to produce Halo? How benevolent of them.
Plague Doctor
Member
Good point. If anything, FFXV would get the demo.
NoPiece
Member
If you think the source doesn't want the info shared, maybe not a good idea to post a screenshot of the source? I think the forum where that message was posted is still identifiable by googling the info you left on the screenshot.
Are you saying Bungie did not want to make Halo 2 and only made it because they were forced? Lulz
Or that the educated customer base and market are voting with their wallets against the exclusivity deal (and the game as a result). Nothing wrong with that, the market has spoken.
Just like any other game or DLC; you like the deal? You like the game? Buy it. Vote with your dollars. Millions of other people have in one way or another.
Walker_Boh
Member
How about this: First run copies of FFXV comes with a copy of ROTTR Complete Edition and FF7: Remake demo.
Nah Dragon Quest 11 will get it.
The people who have mentioned they hope the game fails are hoping so because they hate what the reboot has changed the franchise into. It has nothing to do with Sony or MS or anything except Crystal Dynamics radical reinvention of the series.
Everybody else is either laughing or shocked because of the way this deal has been handled. Literally every decision in regards to this deal has been either tone deaf or downright detrimental. Even if you dont think that is worth talking about you then have a 60% drop in debut sales for an established and storied franchise. That n its own is something people take note of regardless of any other factors.
The deal has been criticized from the start because people knew it would negatively impact sales of the game and because the information surrounding its reveal and subsequent updates was laughably bad. Most recognized this deal for what it was day 1 despite what CD and MS were trying to sell it as and frankly as more and more stupid decisions piled up it under performed even the worst of expectations.
So, after all this, you're telling me that despite the comedy of errors surrounding this exclusivity the only reason to look at this clusterfuck of a deal and laugh or shake your head is because you're a "Sony fanboy?" Nah. But if it makes you fell better about the game bombing horribly you go right ahead. I know that hurts.
Damn, son. Where did that come from?
FFVIIR demo only makes sense if bundled with FFXV late next year.
About Tomb Raider....they made a really bad business decision and they'll have to deal with the consequences.
Hopefully for them the PC version will sell decently and they'll recoup some money.
Maybe they'll try asking Microsoft to renegotiate again based on low sales and the fact that the partnership didn't go as expected for both the parts involved.
I think that some heads at Crystal Dynamics will roll early next year anyway...maybe they'll find a better job at Microsoft
That probably won't go well.Maybe they'll try asking Microsoft to renegotiate again based on low sales and the fact that the partnership didn't go as expected for both the parts involved.
I think that some heads at Crystal Dynamics will roll early next year anyway...maybe they'll find a better job at Microsoft
How does it make more fiscal sense? Does the release of UC4 result in a universe where Fallout 4, Halo5, Blops 3, Star Wars BF, need for speed etc etc disappear? Does uncharted 4 concurrent existence mean every game you buy on the Xbox turn up lara? Would every sold UC4 have resulted in MS paying SE per copy?
The idée fixe that UC4 would have crushed ROTR in a head to head led to the inane fantasy that the best course of action would be to take it on head to head on 2 consoles with less market share.....
Planning to fail in the face of such insurmountable odds is rat crazy, like cleaning your room as opposed to actually studying for your exam and then resting in the knowledge that maybe you could have passed if you'd bothered studying.
Plague Doctor
Member
The argument, albeit a very odd one, is that a face off of the two IPs would have created an organic buzz and in turn free articles in video game press (which I am sure you covered in a previous post). Granted, that would have elevated the public status of either entry somewhat. Although, this wouldn't take into account the other very popular titles being released around the same time.
Basically, if that was one of the driving reasons for releasing TR as an exclusive at that time... it was a crap idea. A couple articles and free publicity about the theoretical face off doesn't take away the fact that BLOP3, BF, Fallout 4, and H5 directly before was happening.
I think the idea they are trying to express is that the intention was for a marketing rivalry betwixt RotTR and UC. They might have hoped such a rivalry would elevate the reboot series in some regards. It also would be likely drum up a lot of unpaid marketing/attention via head to head articles, videos and what not that would have popped up online. I could certainly see them (MS, SE and CD) picturing it playing out that way and thinking it would lead to $$$.
Plague Doctor
Member
.
What's even more mind boggling is that the software that probably pulled the most away from RotTR specifically with the Xbox user mindshare was Fallout 4, also Microsoft marketing partner. Anecdotally, they hammered the commercials and promotion of Fallout 4 like a war drum (a multiplatform release) and went a lot lighter on their true exclusive, TR, that they presumably paid a lot to keep exclusive. It was just surreal and almost tells 3rd party devs that staying multiplatform and having a hot game trumps making your game exclusive (which is most definitely true, but I can't see why a a console platform would want to publicly validate that thought like they did with F4 and RotTR)).
Calm waterfall
Banned
Uncharted is in the same genre as modern TR. FO4 is not.
Fallout is in a whole other League though. Any game that doesn't have a rock solid fanbase/audience to draw from would feel the effects of a game that big when they are releasing the same month let alone the same day. Either MS, CD and SE severely overestimated the pedigree of RotTR or they purposefully handicapped the title. Seeing as SE sought to mitigate the potential losses of the title via an exclusivity deal you would think that would eliminate the former as a possibility (You don't sign away exclusivity rights to a multiplatform franchise/game you are confident in). Couple Fallout with other heavy hitters releasing that month and it's a truly bizarre decision to say the least.
SE figured they would get some free money and avoid taking an initial hit on the PS4 version sales going directly against Uncharted 4. The problem is, it is apparently not even a top ten seller on Xbox One this season. Whether Uncharted 4 came out on time, in March as currently planned, or in June, it leaves the PS4 version of Tomb Raider to also get steamrolled during another fall season littered with big games.
Having it come out so close to Halo 5 is mildly odd from MS' perspective, but can be argued that they are different enough to round out the same lineup. Having it come out in November, outside of any backroom deals, was dumb on SE's part.
Plague Doctor
Member
Yeah there is oddness all all around. You just get the feeling that both these companies got into bed with one another and had some regret as the ink was drying on the contracts.
People on this forum far wiser than me would know better, but I believe all advertising and marketing of games partner by console markers are by the console in question (hence the final logo, price, etc at the tail end of the ad). Microsoft could have atleast matched their marketing for Fallout 4 but instead didn't. This could reflect that Xbox's advertising warchest isn't as great as some people think and they made a decision to go with the game they felt would push their system better (Fallout 4). Or, relations with SE were strained sometime before the ads had to go out. Or... both.
Edit: Consider this - Microsoft did more for AC: Unity (a multiplatform with bad WOM before launch and not so hot reviews) by having a lot more bundled SKU on store shelves in 2014 .
GravityInsanity
Member
So Square Enix was afraid of this guy?
So Square Enix was afraid of this guy?
Citizen Kane instills fear with 10/10's. If companies run scared and make mistakes, the millions of dollars worth kind, imagine your average hardcore fanboy in the sidelines......
ShockingAlberto
Member
I don't think Square-Enix was all that comfortable going against Fallout, either. At least not in the exact same day. That seems to be Microsoft's incompetence at work.
I am really curious if anyone is going to ask Greenberg about it, since he assured people that there was no overcrowding there.
I am really curious if anyone is going to ask Greenberg about it, since he assured people that there was no overcrowding there.
I don't think the deal was bad. There are a few reasons it went bad and there are some things we will never know to gauge the worth of the deal.
It turned out bad but on paper it wasn't bad.
The scenario as it was pictured back then: Uncharted 4, a Naughty Dog game, coming off hot from TLOU, with the biggest marketing budget Sony will throw at a title, + a potential holiday price drop to go along with it.....vs a multi-plat low-key, holiday release for Tomb Raider.
That's enough to send MS into panic, and that's enough to make SE consider alternative deals. On paper teaming up with MS would of allowed Square free marketing dollars, brand exposure and some guaranteed money to offset development cost. Piggy back the "exclusive" rivalry between Xbox vs. PS, Tomb Raider vs. Uncharted 4 and that elevates the IP even more. So, not only do they make out with MS money, free-marketing, brand exposure at MS events, the MS exclusive treatment by the media and IP elevation and awareness by going head-to-head in this fashion vs. Uncharted but they also had a PC and PS4 release in the cards too.
It was good on paper for Square. MS on the other hand, at the time, couldn't do a thing to energize sales going into Destiny month and was planning for a potential contentious holiday the year after. It made sense to snatch something or get bodied by Sony with a potential U4 + price drop combo. Also the prospects of Uncharted bodying Halo in sales around the same month would of been enough to cause waves.
It turned out bad but on paper it wasn't bad.
The scenario as it was pictured back then: Uncharted 4, a Naughty Dog game, coming off hot from TLOU, with the biggest marketing budget Sony will throw at a title, + a potential holiday price drop to go along with it.....vs a multi-plat low-key, holiday release for Tomb Raider.
That's enough to send MS into panic, and that's enough to make SE consider alternative deals. On paper teaming up with MS would of allowed Square free marketing dollars, brand exposure and some guaranteed money to offset development cost. Piggy back the "exclusive" rivalry between Xbox vs. PS, Tomb Raider vs. Uncharted 4 and that elevates the IP even more. So, not only do they make out with MS money, free-marketing, brand exposure at MS events, the MS exclusive treatment by the media and IP elevation and awareness by going head-to-head in this fashion vs. Uncharted but they also had a PC and PS4 release in the cards too.
It was good on paper for Square. MS on the other hand, at the time, couldn't do a thing to energize sales going into Destiny month and was planning for a potential contentious holiday the year after. It made sense to snatch something or get bodied by Sony with a potential U4 + price drop combo. Also the prospects of Uncharted bodying Halo in sales around the same month would of been enough to cause waves.
Reading these two replies has struck me with a dark insight.
Remember the entire issue is that the assumption is that UC4 would have crushed ROTR, so the simpleton plan was to go head to head with a "stronger" game. Now remember that the side by side comparisions would have occurred anyway even with ROTR being multiplatform, but now with the "exclusivity" SE and MS were hoping to ignite the febrile marketing strength of fan boy/list warz (in the media and social media).
There has been no precedence of fanboy marketing wars ever being effective, a thing even, but this is the seam that SE/CD and MS wanted to tap. This plan is baldrick levels of incompetence combined with wishful thinking. This is even before you get into all parties ignoring all the other AAA games being dropped during the end of year buying season.
A plan by and for lack wits.
...Scatter...
Banned
I guess. Its a business. You cut the check, you call the shots. That's life. I'm sure it must have been horrible working on Halo and being well paid. Thank god they were rescued to create everyone's new darling, Destiny.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
SE accepted a deal that im sure paid them a good amount of money upfront and while they never ever should have accepted that deal, it was Microsoft that sent it out to die. They definitely should have moved up the release date. If the game was done and was able to go Gold in September, they should have released it on October 6th. If not, I would have delayed it until January.
Anyway, I purchased an Xbox One mainly because I didn't want to wait a year to play the game and it was easily worth the purchase. Game itself is excellent and if it's a "complete" edition, I'll most likely buy it again for PS4.
Horrible deal that screwed over the developer and the franchise.
Anyway, I purchased an Xbox One mainly because I didn't want to wait a year to play the game and it was easily worth the purchase. Game itself is excellent and if it's a "complete" edition, I'll most likely buy it again for PS4.
Horrible deal that screwed over the developer and the franchise.
The release date was stupid but Halo's date was spot on. A mid-October release would have done the game wonders if marketed properly (release date anticipation build up). I imagine if it were to go against Uncharted 4, the release dates would of either matched, or be a few days earlier for Tomb Raider.
Circumstances changed and I am not sure they (MS and Square) quite adapted to the changing circumstances as they should have. If I were to go out on a limb, the moment Uncharted 4 slipped, the moment MS interest waned in pushing the game hard (barring lip service and typical PR). Push Halo to the max and save as much as possible.
MS will be pushing Quantum Break a bit extra I assume.
What's somewhat ironic in the whole Bungie/Halo/MS/Activision space opera is that Bungie wanted free of MS so they can work on non-Halo games (after working on them for 8 years) and (assuming) wanting more creative control.
Then now they are in a 10 year deal with Activision who from all sources gutted Destiny and dictates the direction to a good degree.
At least that is the takeaway I have, someone please correct me with sources if I'm incorrect
EDIt: don't get me wrong they are obviously more independent to a degree now than when owned by MS and to my knowledge own the Destiny IP, but I wonder if this is what they envisioned back in 2007
Does no one actually have cognitive dissonance when they argue the key to success for ROTR was to go head to head with UC4? When the entire deal is predicated on the fear that in a match up UC4 would crush ROTR.