I get that but Blade was half the reason I thought super hero movies made a comeback so I would have figured that Sony would have tried to go for a more darker version of spiderman. Sony really dropped the ball when making that contract.
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Venom: Let There Be Carnage Trailer
- Thread starter Stitch
- Start date
ManaByte
Member
I believe this actually pre-dates even Blade.
possibly. Supposedly Sony bought the rights in 1999 and Blade released in 1998. Now talks could have happened before this but I'm sure Sony was aware of the success of Blade at the time this contract was finalized.
ManaByte
Member
No, Sony acquired the some of rights around 1989 when they bought Columbia. It was Columbia Pictures, not Sony, who had the home video rights. Carolco had the theatrical rights (which is why Cameron was developing the "Peter Parker wet dream" script) but when they went under MGM got a hold of them. There was a lawsuit in 1998 where Sony got the theatrical rights from MGM (who was developing a Spider-Man movie via the Carolco rights they had) and then in exchange MGM got back the Casino Royale rights from Sony.
Blade wasn't even on their radar.
well damn, you really did some research. I always thought it was just a Sony went and straight bought the rights from marvel.
I've got to get some sleep before work , should have went to sleep 2 hours ago lol.
ManaByte
Member
No, and the rights are more specifically tied to Columbia Pictures. Meaning, hypothetically, if someone like Apple or Amazon were to buy Sony Pictures and eliminate Columbia, the rights would revert to marvel.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
I don't think it'll get that high. Legs will be cut short.
You can take solace in knowing that Marvel HAS consent to changes before. Peter Porker is a frozen character and requires Marvel's consent to be used in film by Sony. Obviously Marvel approved it otherwise he would not have been in ITTS. Marvel also approved changes to Negasonic Teenage Warhead in exchange for the rights to Ego The Living Planet. I do think that Marvel would ask for some significant things, especially now that they have FF and X-Men. Things that Sony would not want to give, such as all live action TV rights, global streaming rights, a big character being available to Marvel to use without a problem, and so on. They have no reason to not ask for a lot, but you never know.
One oversight from Sony vs a million oversights from Marvel in that contract. I am sure Marvel would like a redo way more than Sony. Matter of fact Marvel tried to sue Sony ~2003 for the SM movie rights (and Universal for the theme park rights). They also tried to bypass Fox for an XMen TV show. Major case of sellers remorse. Sony is more than okay with this contract.
Would never happen IMO. They'd keep Columbia if for no other reason to keep the rights.
ManaByte
Member
Actually the subject of that was Sony was trying to pass off Spider-Man as a SONY character.
Kazekage1981
Member
Saw the movie, its more of a rental then actually going to the theatre. Didn't see the first movie. Relationship between symbiont and tom hardy's character is adorable 
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
That is true and Marvel looked to have the contract nullified.
Sony did succeed though. To this day people still think Spider-Man is a Sony character.
ManaByte
Member
Nah, they specifically said it wasn't to interfere with Spider-Man 2 and 3 ended up being announced when they announced the settlement.
Basically it was a licensing thing where Sony was trying to keep Spider-Man a Sony character and not allow Marvel to license the character to any company Sony viewed as a competitor. Like if Samsung wanted to use Spider-Man on a TV promo or something like that. Marvel Characters (who owns the trademark on Spider-Man) is who filed the lawsuit.
Marvel actually got the last laugh when they gained full control of the merchandise rights.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Well Sony did have 50% of merch at that time. The settlement gave Marvel 75% merch ownership.
But yes, Marvel was trying to end the licensing agreement with Sony after Spider-Man 2. I can google it, but I believe it was all of the licensing agreement, not just merch. IIRC when they settled they even mentioned they were going to contribute in Spider-Man 3.
AJUMP23
Member
First movie is ok, this was worse.
Revolutionary
Member
I thought it was just as mediocre as the first one. It has its moments though.
No it was not.
BlackM1st
Banned
Groan.
WoodyStare
Member
$90 million opening weekend. God damn.
kunonabi
Member
Honestly movie theaters need these hits regardless of how good the movies actually are. I can't deal with ghostbusters getting delayed again so this is great news for me.
ManaByte
Member
Nothing's being delayed again. Bond just opened to over $120M internationally in the middle of the pandemic. It's expect to do similar here next week.
MrMephistoX
Member
Saw it wasn’t bad just really choppy and too short who likes 90 minute films?
ManaByte
Member
Movie studios who want to maximize the number of showings they can have in one day for a big opening weekend.
MrMephistoX
Member
Butts in seats at the expense of quality is a terrible business model especially after COVID. you would have thought they’d have learned the lesson of the MCU by now: Infinity War and Endgame were long enough to tell the story and they made billions. BvS and Justice League suffered a similar fate: storylines made incoherent to hit a run time.
JayK47
Member
Wow a 90 minute film? All the more reason to see it. I am very sick of 2+ hour movies.
hemo memo
Gold Member
If only they replied “Yes but I was asking about good movies”
nush
Member
There's so many screens now compared to when that discussion point was even relevant and with "During a pandemic" there's not a lot of content to fill those screens.
MrMephistoX
Member
Don’t get me wrong I liked it but it jumped from set piece to set piece with zero context. It was like they kidnapped Venoms ex then bam church with zero explanation. Plus I felt like they should have made it R. Carnage basically is a creepy ass serial killer in his first comics appearance and they should have shown him just flat out murdering people for fun in SF: Zodiak killer hello wasted opportunity.
Labolas
Member
Finally saw the movie. And yeah it was exactly what I thought it was going to be. Just a dumb movie to kill 2 hours with. I honestly don't know where to begin because everything, EVERYTHING was either straight up bad, cliched, or cringy, especially the humor, my god the humor. The comedy in this was very low brow to the point that knuckle dragging neanderthals could feel the cringe in this.
Alright first up are the personal complaints I have with this as a Venom mark. The characters. Again Tom Hardy is a good actor in this and is trying but he isn't Eddie Brock. Hell, I don't anyone can physically portray today him anyways nor can Eddie Brock be written the same without taking liberties with the character. That's why I think Hardy could pull out another character who has a lot more depth to him than Eddie and allowed him to show off his acting chops to boot. This version of Eddie is pretty lame and tame to compare the religious, sociopath, survivalist vigilante in the comics. The only real connections he has to the comics besides his name were him being a reporter, which he wasn't anymore after getting the symbiote, helping the poor(from the first movie), and living a hobostatic lifestyle. To me, he's only Eddie in name, nothing else really made him Eddie Brock to me. Woody as Cletus was okay but wasn't exactly how he should have been portrayed. Cletus is a bit of redneck which was weird for me to see him hooking up with black Shriek. Cletus was a bit more subdued here and had a bit of humanity in him. Cletus in the comics was basically Joker with a red symbiote. Cletus also never really loved Shriek like he does here. The only thing Cletus really loved was causing absolute chaos and destruction to everyone. Also, Cletus was so insane apparently when he and the Carnage symbiote merged, they became of one mind instead of being separate entities like Eddie and Venom, or like other hosts and symbiotes. Speaking of Shriek, really her being race swap isn't the hugest problem but her being in the movie was just unnecessary and not needed to tell the movie. A very d list character that they put a lot of into this movie but put the least amount of effort into how she looked in the movie. The same can be said for Pat Mulligan. A minor character that shouldn't haven't been included in this. Anne Weying has next to no chemistry with Eddie. I thought this would have been a good point to introduce Scream, a visually different looking symbiote that would have at least stood out from the rest, but nope.
Actual complaints. The humor DID NOT work at all. Very kiddish humor. I did a chuckle at the bit where Cletus is giving the usual villain spiel about how he isn't that bad of a guy and Venom is basically said fuck it and ate his head off. That was the most I laughed at the movie. Hell, the plot itself is very low brow. In fact it repeats some of the same story beats of the first with just a red version of Riot. This definitely doesn't feel like a modern superhero movie, it feels like a movie from the early 2000's. I think the movie has every cliched villain trope in this. From the whole "we're not so different, you and I" to "my family/world made me this way". Just the cliched shit you can think of for a villain like Kassady. And don't get me wrong, Cletus isn't some sort of multifaceted character, cuz he isn't but again they didn't really try.
Other tidbits I had noticed throughout the movie. When Brock and Venom are chilling at Cancun, it's a reference to when Venom 'killed' Spiderman and decide to vacation at an island by himself
The church that Cletus and Streik are getting married in looks awfully like the church where Eddie got the symbiote. Another one is the reference to the hive. Iirc this is a reference to the Planet of the Symbiotes comic in 95 and the recent Venom run by Cates.
The pitch/fix I thought of for the first movie. The problem with these movies is that there's no human element or heart to them. To fix this, what the film studio should have done is Instead of doing a purely Eddie Brock movie, I suggest doing a Flash Thompson movie. Or if you still want to do Eddie Brock, just give him Flash's origin of getting the symbiote and adapt that story and a bit of the License to Kill story. Flash has a lot of things going for him to make him a compelling character for audiences. He's a patriot, a vet who lost his legs during a war, a recovering alcoholic who still struggles with it. These some of the things will hit home for a lot of people. You put him in a situation where he wants to serve his country again but he has to do through the government with an alien symbiote and a bomb attached to him. Also I propose the first villain not even be a symbiote character, it could be the villains from Flash's run as Venom, Crimemaster and Jack-O-Lantern.
Circling back to Venom 2, ironically enough I didn't hate this movie. It's very forgettable and the plot is super thin, but it's a movie that doesn't really pander or preach at the audience. I do think this is worse than the first movie. 4/10.
Alright first up are the personal complaints I have with this as a Venom mark. The characters. Again Tom Hardy is a good actor in this and is trying but he isn't Eddie Brock. Hell, I don't anyone can physically portray today him anyways nor can Eddie Brock be written the same without taking liberties with the character. That's why I think Hardy could pull out another character who has a lot more depth to him than Eddie and allowed him to show off his acting chops to boot. This version of Eddie is pretty lame and tame to compare the religious, sociopath, survivalist vigilante in the comics. The only real connections he has to the comics besides his name were him being a reporter, which he wasn't anymore after getting the symbiote, helping the poor(from the first movie), and living a hobostatic lifestyle. To me, he's only Eddie in name, nothing else really made him Eddie Brock to me. Woody as Cletus was okay but wasn't exactly how he should have been portrayed. Cletus is a bit of redneck which was weird for me to see him hooking up with black Shriek. Cletus was a bit more subdued here and had a bit of humanity in him. Cletus in the comics was basically Joker with a red symbiote. Cletus also never really loved Shriek like he does here. The only thing Cletus really loved was causing absolute chaos and destruction to everyone. Also, Cletus was so insane apparently when he and the Carnage symbiote merged, they became of one mind instead of being separate entities like Eddie and Venom, or like other hosts and symbiotes. Speaking of Shriek, really her being race swap isn't the hugest problem but her being in the movie was just unnecessary and not needed to tell the movie. A very d list character that they put a lot of into this movie but put the least amount of effort into how she looked in the movie. The same can be said for Pat Mulligan. A minor character that shouldn't haven't been included in this. Anne Weying has next to no chemistry with Eddie. I thought this would have been a good point to introduce Scream, a visually different looking symbiote that would have at least stood out from the rest, but nope.
Actual complaints. The humor DID NOT work at all. Very kiddish humor. I did a chuckle at the bit where Cletus is giving the usual villain spiel about how he isn't that bad of a guy and Venom is basically said fuck it and ate his head off. That was the most I laughed at the movie. Hell, the plot itself is very low brow. In fact it repeats some of the same story beats of the first with just a red version of Riot. This definitely doesn't feel like a modern superhero movie, it feels like a movie from the early 2000's. I think the movie has every cliched villain trope in this. From the whole "we're not so different, you and I" to "my family/world made me this way". Just the cliched shit you can think of for a villain like Kassady. And don't get me wrong, Cletus isn't some sort of multifaceted character, cuz he isn't but again they didn't really try.
Other tidbits I had noticed throughout the movie. When Brock and Venom are chilling at Cancun, it's a reference to when Venom 'killed' Spiderman and decide to vacation at an island by himself
The church that Cletus and Streik are getting married in looks awfully like the church where Eddie got the symbiote. Another one is the reference to the hive. Iirc this is a reference to the Planet of the Symbiotes comic in 95 and the recent Venom run by Cates.
The pitch/fix I thought of for the first movie. The problem with these movies is that there's no human element or heart to them. To fix this, what the film studio should have done is Instead of doing a purely Eddie Brock movie, I suggest doing a Flash Thompson movie. Or if you still want to do Eddie Brock, just give him Flash's origin of getting the symbiote and adapt that story and a bit of the License to Kill story. Flash has a lot of things going for him to make him a compelling character for audiences. He's a patriot, a vet who lost his legs during a war, a recovering alcoholic who still struggles with it. These some of the things will hit home for a lot of people. You put him in a situation where he wants to serve his country again but he has to do through the government with an alien symbiote and a bomb attached to him. Also I propose the first villain not even be a symbiote character, it could be the villains from Flash's run as Venom, Crimemaster and Jack-O-Lantern.
Circling back to Venom 2, ironically enough I didn't hate this movie. It's very forgettable and the plot is super thin, but it's a movie that doesn't really pander or preach at the audience. I do think this is worse than the first movie. 4/10.
HoodWinked
Member
the special effects somehow looks shit and impressive simultaneously.