Happened to Nintendo twice. How they let it happen twice... no idea.
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The Xbox Story, how Microsoft Squandered Their Reputation Overnight.
- Thread starter MormaPope
- Start date
Happened to Nintendo twice. How they let it happen twice... no idea.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
And this disproves my point, how? Stay true to what people want (not focus group tested garbage) and youll be rewarded. Its no surpise that the Shadowrun Kickstarter people had to apologize extensively for what FASA did. Game companies cannot run roughshod over their paying customers without consequence. This is also something the Shadowrun Kickstarter has learned. People dont have to buy your fucking game. There are 100+ alternatives to what they bring so dont be cocky.
The shame is that the people who are console agnostic on this forum are getting drowned out fanboys on both sides screaming at each other. I'm interested to see what both consoles have planned for their consoles when it comes to buying/selling used games or even renting games. I'm also interested in seeing what games and services (as in gaming services, i.e. streaming, party chat, etc) both consoles will show off at E3. Not too mention pricing when it comes to the consoles themselves and the services they offer.
When I know these things, I'll be more than happy to have a discussion about which console I'm leaning towards buying, but to lay on the hyperbole this thick with a limited amount of information is just dumb. I feel like I'm watching an episode of First Take - Video Game Edition. In the six years I've been on this forum this is as bad as I've ever seen the quality of its threads.
When I know these things, I'll be more than happy to have a discussion about which console I'm leaning towards buying, but to lay on the hyperbole this thick with a limited amount of information is just dumb. I feel like I'm watching an episode of First Take - Video Game Edition. In the six years I've been on this forum this is as bad as I've ever seen the quality of its threads.
NullPointer
Member
Just saying it was FASA's bad ideas, not gamers, that led to their demise.
Phonomezer
Banned
The concept of fully installing your physical disc on a console and playing off the HDD is not a new or revolutionary idea, but its execution is. I'm not trying to put Microsoft on a pedistool or treat them as martyrs, but it is encouraging to see a manufacturer laying the foundations and drawing a line in the sand to offer said services to those who want it.
And this is where the growing pains come in, because it seems if SOME people want to do this on the Xbox One, then EVERYONE who buys it has to toe the line along with them. What are the alternatives to this? Separate SKUs? DD only? Any kind of fully DD system is bound to come with inconvenient DRM. It's all up in the air and Microsoft not having a definitive answer is frustrating.
It does seem like a disorganised mess and their company line was all over the place as different people had different answers to the same questions, but the hardware itself is months away from retail and these are software-side decisions, so it's understandable that things aren't set in stone for the moment. Neither Sony nor Nintendo had definitive responses to similar fundamental questions at their reveals and most (sensible) people took a wait and see approach, Microsoft should be held to the same standard.
and neither would this one if people wouldn't be so tied to discs but for another 5-10 years we probably are. So we are in that middle transitional period but things have to start going in that direction or it would be another ten or twenty years and I'm not getting any younger.
I guess you're right, in a DD-only future we wouldn't really have to worry about some of those things due to not actually owning the games anymore.
I guess I should have worded it better. Right now, we're not in a DD future. We are now dealing with those problems. So why should those issues even exist? MS should just stop using those stupid practices and policies. That is thing that makes me hate the Xbone and makes me not care about what they will show at E3. Fix those problems and deliver a good E3 and I will definitely be on board with the Xbone, but right now, there is no chance.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Ah okay. No disagreement there.
Its like if CoD turned into hardcore turned based rpg. id probably buy it buts its the fault of the developers from abandoning their existing paying customers to try and court someone who isnt interested in CoD. The fault lies with them completely.
I could say the same for Sony. Oh yeah there still working on party chat.(God I hate this console war shit) and I hate typing this.
I'm not a fanboy, and I'm not screaming.
I wasn't expecting a huge showing of games yesterday, and the initial conference didn't really make me feel anything. It was all the details afterwards where things felt sour.
Eteric Rice
Member
Basically this.
I wasn't even mad that they didn't show the games. It's this DRM, always online shit that pisses me right off.
D
Deleted member 8095
Unconfirmed Member
I agree. My mind is not made up on either next gen console yet and the severe hyperbole and overreacting from both sides is beyond annoying right now.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
We all saw it coming but some held out hope that Microsoft would get smart, they didn't.
NullPointer
Member
There are many answers to these dilemmas, but so far it looks like MS is taking the position that publishers and advertisers get everything they want, while everybody else can just deal with it.
The way MS is approaching things, as far a we've been told, by their own representatives, before they dropped a smoke grenade and ninja-roped away - that vision - is not the only one possible. But its the one they're going with, and the past few days represent the response that approach has garnered.
googleplex
Member
See what Microsoft has been doing to their customers over the last 6 years....
Yeah.. penetrate is the right word.
D
Deleted member 8095
Unconfirmed Member
Oh shit, I totally read this wrong in my initial response. I thought you meant it was going to be awesome that fans of the console would be eating their words. You meant it the other way around. And I agree with that.
Nope, I want all next gen consoles to succeed, I read the post wrong.
Yeah, I see what he is saying now. He wants the naysayers to eat their words. I hope he is correct in that regard.
Wolfgang Jr
Banned
It's going to have a hard time 'penetrating the living room' when it won't even be leaving the store shelves.
This is up there with the Wii U threads. Xbox One will be fine. I'm not going to try and justify their decisions but the system will do just fine. There's a lot left to be announced including release date, price and locked down specifics regarding used ganes and internet specifics so the doom and gloom while entertaining, are greatly exaggerating the Xbox's demise.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
I think the problem is that anyone not loving the XBone is accused of being a Sony fanboy. It simply isn't true as most people are ONLY talking about the XBone and not saying a word about the PS4.
Some of us are waiting for Sony to confirm the same activation code bullshit too because that's what the publishers want. So please, stop pretending people are Sony fanboys just because they are less than impressed with the XBone.
You make it sound as if it's silly to have a discussion right now because too little information is known, so I ask you, why are you here posting in this thread?
MrDanger88
Member
And the drama queen threads continue
NullPointer
Member
You asked the question. Its a combination of all new functionality being in the form of paywall gated media and social media apps along with a focus on trying to make Kinect relevant. Thats the stuff that MS wanted to make a splash about - thats where their marketing and development efforts have been put towards, and thats what leads people to see gaming as a side issue - a flank to their primary attack into living room media. The ONE stuff just bolsters this perspective.
Used games activation fee -- attempting to take over the entire used games market and removing the power from the consumers, mandatory Kinect, a massive focus on TV (Spielberg.) isn't a problem?
Nothing has been blown out of proportion. People are, naturally, upset because MS is taking advantage of their marketshare, their "fanbase" from Xbox 1 and Xbox 360 by including all this unnecessary stuff, and because they are using this as a means to remove basic rights like trading games. How can that not upset some people?
This is how they show their appreciation to the people who bought Xbox 1 and 360, by attempting to take away basic rights like used games? Attempting to de-emphasize the importance of "gaming" consoles"? etc.
This isn't system wars/console wars -- people who care about their hobby are simply trying to protect it.
You say that as if it was a truly remarkable thing, but it was actually relatively pointless. You can't host many network games on your console, so what was the gain? If Microsoft let us host our own network games, then it'd be a good thing. But they didn't, so it's rather pointless.
And that isn't remotely the same thing as mandatory kinect, used games fee, and so forth. Why would you even compare them?
CitizenCope
Member
Yeah it won't sell at all.
Jake Tower
Banned
I keep using this pic (apologies to all who've seen me post it before); it's just so perfect at conveying how I feel about everything Xbone represents:
It's hilarious that anyone against this is apparently a Sony fanboy. I bought every single mutiplatform title this gen on 360. I have 50+ 360 games compared to like 10 PS3.
As far as I know at this point in time PS4 is nowhere near as totalitarian as the XBone is. If PS4 ends up being as anti-consumer do you really think this forum won't turn on it too?
Many of us see Sony as our only hope in stopping the trend MS apparently wants to move forward with this console and if Sony follows after them then they're going to be just as ravaged on this forum.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
I keep using this pic (apologies to all who've seen me post it before); it's just so perfect at conveying how I feel about everything Xbone represents:
A pleasure machine?
I'm not saying you were, but you don't have to search to hard to find some really childish remarks that adds nothing to the quality of a thread on these boards right now. I have no problem with people saying that they are not going to buy a console that has strict DRM, if Microsoft does go in that direction and doesn't have a great digital store in the vein of steam I'll probably pass on the Xbox One. But nothing they've mentioned so far deserves the type of reception it's got by some people on this board. Now if they made a decision to change their DRM policy mid console generation, sure, I'd completely understand people raging, but if they do announce policies I'm not in OK with, I'll just take my money elsewhere.
Exactly. And who knows, maybe we can get Microsoft to change their mind. Yeah theres a slim chance of that happening, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease, if we just accept it then there's no chance of them reconsidering.
Jake Tower
Banned
A machine designed to fuck you from every direction.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s05e11-the-entity
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
NullPointer
Member
Yep. I have a 360 and PS3 under the TV and come next gen I'll still only have two devices connected. This back and forth and specs and cross referencing and irrational hype and doom and gloom and question and answer and parsing of marketing buzzwords and lingo is just a natural part of the process of figuring out which two devices those are going to be.
I've put a shitton of hours into my 360, but if the services and restrictions are what we've heard, I'm out, regardless of the exclusives. But MS seems to be circling the wagons and spraying chaff in all directions, so who knows what their next move is.
Sony has said all the right things I want to hear as a gamer, but they can still very easily grasp defeat from the jaws of victory.
Jake Tower
Banned
If you think rape is pleasure.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
gutter_trash
Banned
I adored the original Xbox
I liked the 360
I am not getting the ONE
I liked the 360
I am not getting the ONE
Jake Tower
Banned
I really think you need to lighten up. We're talking about video games.
Xbone comes with a required spy cam. It isn't just about video games.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
They need to know what products you have in your living room so they can advertise to you properly.
If it sees a Wendy's bag, they will throw Baconator ads at you.
My point was that there is not enough reasonable posts that are on topic in this forum right now. I really liked this post. As others have mentioned, we're in a really weird place with DRM right now, as we get closer to digital only it's going to be trial and error with the Sony and Microsoft when it comes to how they treat games that are still on disc. I'm in the camp of people who sell games to supplement his gaming budget, so the last thing I want is for a hardware company to put crazy strict DRM policies in their consoles. I hope neither console makes it so you have to pay full price to install a used game on your console. I don't think that's going to happen. That's the thing though, we just don't know. The Harrison comments from yesterday were absolutely cause for concern, but let's wait and see what the final plans are, and then have a rational discussion about it. That's all I'm asking.
XxHANNERxX
Banned
Soul raping? You sound like the caricatures of natives that were worried that taking there picture with a camera was going to steal there soul. Give me a break people!! It can't hurt you, I promise.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
No body hated Microsoft or Xbox 360. People hated paying for Live.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Yes, let's wait until plans are finalized or maybe even wait until launch to bitch about things that can no longer be changed. That's a brilliant plan.
They have already told what they want to do and they are waiting for your reaction.
Open Source
Banned
It would be a shame if, in the thrall of this melodrama, you offed yourself in your grief and then it turned out to have amazing games shown in a couple weeks.
Truespeed
Member
Me too. I really like what Microsoft announced. The people at Sony also liked what Microsoft announced. Sony should get a medal for one of the greatest console fake outs ever perpetrated - make them think you were using 4GB of GDDR5 and pull another 4GB of GDDR5 out of your ass at the last minute. The eventual Xbox announcement delay was as if Sony pressed the Reset button.
That's like saying VCR's and Tape Decks look better than the PS3 and 360. It's a rectangular box that's void of any memorable design characteristics. That's not to say it's bad because it's not. They designed a case that matches the design aesthetics of the what it wants to be - a cable box/Tivo/DVR.
Yup, they look interesting - especially if you live in the US where it'll work. But, who watches TV any more? I only watch live TV for sports and the last thing I want to do is interact with it.
I agree with you on this one. I don't buy used games because I hate how the majority of people handle them. I'd rather wait a few weeks or months to buy it new.
I agree, games are what will matter. And they'll look better on the PS4. It'll be the lead on a majority of multiplatform games because developers will always create games on the platform that make their IP's look the best. The only question that remains is how far they'll need to be scaled back to work on the Xbox One.
True, but sometimes the electricity goes out. I will not purchase a vacuum cleaner.
I care about the specs. Showing a Big Black Box and not talking about the specs was not only significantly worse, but also telling for how anaemic their Big Black Box was. They bragged about a die transistor count because it's the only thing they had. What they didn't tell you was that transistor count also included the 32MB of ESRAM.
If I could perhaps comment on something we know of... The third console curse... Supposedly the third console of a company will invariably be a failure compared to previous versions. Now this is not true for everything as the only real success of Atari and Sega were the Atari 2600 and the Genesis/Mega Drive respectfully, but I plan to look at it in regards to Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. The third console curse affected Nintendo and Sony because the very advantages they brought to the gaming industry became the albatross around their necks by their third console.
It was Nintendo's ability to control third-parties and keep them from making the crappy games that led to the North American video game crash that made them able to succeed where Atari had failed. However, it was that exact ability that drove third-parties away when the Genesis and later the PS1 showed up.
It was also Nintendo's desire to court the causal gamer that led to the success that the Wii had, but with the Wii U, Nintendo's sixth console, that same desire led to the core gamer vanishing and the casual gamers ended up being too fickle to base profits on.
It was PlayStation's urge to push multimedia formats that helped lead to the success of the PS1 and PS2. However, it was that exact pushing that led to Blu-Ray's inclusion into the PS3 and causing the price to be as high as it was allowing Nintendo and Microsoft to reclaim some of the market.
So what made the Xbox line a success? Xbox Live... It was the first popular online video game console. Microsoft was the company pushing online in the console space compared to Sony and Nintendo. Now with the Xbox One, we are being shown the disadvantages of an online console.
The third console curse is not really a magical curse, but instead just the observation that the very selling points of a console line will invariably show its downsides by the third console of the company.
It was Nintendo's ability to control third-parties and keep them from making the crappy games that led to the North American video game crash that made them able to succeed where Atari had failed. However, it was that exact ability that drove third-parties away when the Genesis and later the PS1 showed up.
It was also Nintendo's desire to court the causal gamer that led to the success that the Wii had, but with the Wii U, Nintendo's sixth console, that same desire led to the core gamer vanishing and the casual gamers ended up being too fickle to base profits on.
It was PlayStation's urge to push multimedia formats that helped lead to the success of the PS1 and PS2. However, it was that exact pushing that led to Blu-Ray's inclusion into the PS3 and causing the price to be as high as it was allowing Nintendo and Microsoft to reclaim some of the market.
So what made the Xbox line a success? Xbox Live... It was the first popular online video game console. Microsoft was the company pushing online in the console space compared to Sony and Nintendo. Now with the Xbox One, we are being shown the disadvantages of an online console.
The third console curse is not really a magical curse, but instead just the observation that the very selling points of a console line will invariably show its downsides by the third console of the company.