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The Sony PS4 costs ~US$ 1850 in Brazil

Peterthumpa

Peterthumpa

Member
Fuck this country. Same shit. Every. Single. Time.

I was really expecting a turnover from Sony's side this time. Their attempt to "nationalize" the PS3 looked like a sign of good things to come, but waking up today with this announcement, almost felt like some surreal thing.

I mean, really? R$ 4000? The average monthly brazilian income is so much lower than that, it makes me sick. You can buy a fucking motorcycle with this amount here.

It's really a shame, 'cause I was convicted that the console would be a tad cheaper than the Xbox One and it was nice to know that for the first time, I would be going to an actual local shopping store, on a launch day, to buy it, get back home and enjoy next-gen. Dat Uncle Sam feel.

But no, again, I'll be forced to import it illegally, deal with problems on my own, have little to no nearby friends to play... you did it Sony, you really did. At least try to explain this outrageous price instead of just announcing it, at least tell me you did everything possible to overcome this situation.

The Xbox One suddenly looks like a great buy right now.
 
G

Guri

Member
The best kind of protest we should do is to NOT buy any electronic product above R$2000 (unless the price is justified, and the Xbox One isn't). If we eventually buy it, what reason would they have to reduce price? It's the same with iPhone, Galaxy or any new console. They put that price because people buy. If they don't buy, companies will be forced to reduce and pressure the government more for changes.
 
N

neoemonk

Member
I wonder what the PS4 costs in the Philippines. I remember being there shortly after launch and the price came out to around $1000 US for the PS3. Not as bad as Brazil but still ridiculous.
 
A

allansm

Member
mavs said:
If margins are so high why don't they reallocate most of their worldwide shipments to Brazil to take advantage of those high margins? A small market size is probably what's driving margins, along with an audience they can depend on to spend.
Click to expand...

You answered your own question, the market is small and there is an audience they can rely on. The thing is the market has a huge potential, if at least the prices were lower a lot more people would buy the console. It's not only Sony, Brazilian companies are usually risk averse and prefer to rely on a small audience and huge profit margins than on a much larger audience and smaller profit margins. That's the main reason things are so expensive here, not taxes. Brazilian society changed a lot in the past ten years, many left poverty and as a result the middle class grew, but it seems that many companies are still in the 20th century and refuse to change they business model (a small middle class willing to pay abusive prices was the market then).
 
Freeman

Freeman

Banned
Motley Grue said:
Dear Brazil,

You have a booming economy and foreign companies are scrambling to hire workers there instead of their home countries thanks to your much lower wages.

The solution here is to pressure your government to increase your wages substantially so they collect more tax revenue from income instead of just raising taxes on luxuries like the PS4.

If your wages were up to speed with norms in the rest of the industrialized world, not only would you not have this problem, but the jobs in my country would be safe from export.

Thank you for reading.
Click to expand...

You're so wrong it is sad. The economy isn't booming(it looked like it would for a brief moment to those who were unfamiliar with our reality), you need to update your facts.

If we need something(and we do) it is to become more competitive and to do so we need a simplified tax system and way less taxes, less government intervention in the economy(right now it controls gas prices, exchange rates, most of the credit available, it actively promotes monopolies in various sectors and so on) not mention many other reforms.

All that isn't going to happen, the protests you might have seen on TV were asking for more government intervention(it started specifically with the demand for the government to freeze public transportation tickets and as of late it has been dominated by public workers demanding more privileges), we are clearly going the wrong way.

In the last 10 years we've manage to destroy most of the structural pillars left by the previous administration (inflation targets, the law of fiscal responsibility and a floating exchange rate), we are just living a long summer.

About we taking "your" jobs, you can't pick and choose the effects a globalized economy will have, you can't both have your cake and eat it too (a PS4 costs 399$ for a reason). Plus Brazil isn't India or China, you're not exporting\losing that many jobs to us(we are not so competitive, the things we produce are expensive as well).
 
T

Tunin

Member
hnOr52b.gif
 
P

Platy

Member
This video is a good sumarization of the price

Which is basicaly taxes (wich happens to be taxes over taxes, so one taxes is added to the price and then you add the other taxes over the result of the previos addition and so on), lack of subsidize, store taxes and Microsoft being ok with selling consoles at loss
 
M

mantidor

Member
Platy said:
This video is a good sumarization of the price

Which is basicaly taxes (wich happens to be taxes over taxes, so one taxes is added to the price and then you add the other taxes over the result of the previos addition and so on), lack of subsidize, store taxes and Microsoft being ok with selling consoles at loss
Click to expand...

Are there special taxes for companies? makes no sense you can import it and pay all taxes yourself and it's still cheaper, and not by just a little, it's close to half that price.

Insurance costs and all the rest overhead companies have is impossible to be that high.

edit: it's kind of worst actually, importing by bulk is actually cheaper, are there special taxes for bulk importing?
 
P

pauloshinobi

Member
- High number of taxes - that are charged over themselves

- Transport (Completely scrapped and useless railways oblige us to rely on trucks, that runs over poor quality roads) and storage here in Brazil is expensive as hell.

So, approx. 60 or 70% of the price comes from this, according to Sony and tributary officers that were interviewed by specialized brazilian media.
 
oneils

oneils

Member
Frodo said:
No way in hell US$399 would go up to BR$3999 because of taxes. No way to spin this.

It IS Sony being greedy.
Click to expand...

I don't see how it is greed. It doesn't make sense. Why greedy only in Brazil? Something else must be going on. I don't think the demand is that high in Brazil to justify that price. Or is it?
 
M

mantidor

Member
pauloshinobi said:
- High number of taxes - that are charged over themselves

- Transport (Completely scrapped and useless railways oblige us to rely on trucks, that runs over poor quality roads) and storage here in Brazil is expensive as hell.

So, approx. 60 or 70% of the price comes from this, according to Sony and tributary officers that were interviewed by specialized brazilian media.
Click to expand...

Again these make no sense, transporting just one unit is more expensive than transporting in bulk. If you import it yourself it saves storage costs, but no way storage costs are close to $2000 reais per unit, not to mention, as much as MS loves to throw money away, no way in hell they are throwing close to $500 per unit, that's the cost of the console! you would need an insane attach rate to cover that.
 
F

felipeko

Member
Anyway i will be able to buy one on black friday? I will be going to Orlando for shopping, and that would pay for my trip and much more (i got the tickets on offer for $350 round trip)
 
M

M3d10n

Member
Platy said:
This video is a good sumarization of the price

Which is basicaly taxes (wich happens to be taxes over taxes, so one taxes is added to the price and then you add the other taxes over the result of the previos addition and so on), lack of subsidize, store taxes and Microsoft being ok with selling consoles at loss
Click to expand...

Oh, c'mon. Find any electronics that costs $399 in the US and sells by R$ 3999 in Brazil and you might have a point about taxes and subsidizing, but I'm struggling to find any:

- The MacBook Air costs $999 in the US and R$ 4199 in Brazil (4.2X).
- The iPad 4 costs $499 in the US and R$ 1749 in Brazil (3.5X).
- The GeForce Titan costs $999 in the US and R$ 3300 in Brazil (3.3X).
- The Nintendo 3DS costs $169 in the US and R$ 699 in Brazil (4.13X).

- Playstation 4 costs $399 in the US and R$ 3999 in Brazil (10X).

The PS4 price *is* grossly out of the curve and there's no spinning that.
 
M

Metra

Member
Platy said:
This video is a good sumarization of the price

Which is basicaly taxes (wich happens to be taxes over taxes, so one taxes is added to the price and then you add the other taxes over the result of the previos addition and so on), lack of subsidize, store taxes and Microsoft being ok with selling consoles at loss
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. It makes sense (in my perspective, at least) and helps to clarify things a bit. The price's still brutal and, in my opinion, brazilians should avoid buying the PS4 from Sony BR's stores. I'll try to get my console with friends overseas.
 
M

Massa

Member
shagg_187 said:
So why can't people order it via Amazon? Do they prevent the shipment? Is it Amazon that doesn't ship or is it the border patrol that keeps the item for inspection?
Click to expand...

You can order from Amazon, with shipping and taxes it totals about $800.

chancellor said:
Xbox to win in Brazil I reckon, is it tax the reason the ps4 costs so much?
Click to expand...

It's a combination of Sony expecting to sell out and taxes, yes. Even the Vita now and the PS3 back when it was still an import had much lower conversion rates.
 
F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
M3d10n said:
Oh, c'mon. Find any electronics that costs $399 in the US and sells by R$ 3999 in Brazil and you might have a point about taxes and subsidizing, but I'm struggling to find any.

The MacBook Air costs $999 in the US and R$ 4199 in Brazil. The iPad 4 costs $499 in the US and R$ 1749 in Brazil. The GeForce Titan costs $999 in the US and R$ 3300 in Brazil. The PS4 price *is* grossly out of the curve and there's no spinning that.
Click to expand...
Exactly. It's one thing to have absurd prices in Brazil for a variety of reasons but I'm still trying to wrap my head around how they managed to go to infinity and beyond. Even if you don't put it against the price of the Xbox One it's still crazy city when compared to the price of other consumers electronics/luxury items in the country and how much they cost in the USA. $400 does not translate to R$4000 even in the worst case scenarios.
 
Baleoce

Baleoce

Member
chancellor said:
Xbox to win in Brazil I reckon, is it tax the reason the ps4 costs so much?
Click to expand...

No next-gen machine is going to win in Brazil. I don't think that's how that market works there. Sony don't manufacture in Brazil, so retailers import, and there's big leisure tax imposed by the government for things like gaming electronic goods.
 
M

Metra

Member
M3d10n said:
Oh, c'mon. Find any electronics that costs $399 in the US and sells by R$ 3999 in Brazil and you might have a point about taxes and subsidizing, but I'm struggling to find any.

The MacBook Air costs $999 in the US and R$ 4199 in Brazil. The iPad 4 costs $499 in the US and R$ 1749 in Brazil. The GeForce Titan costs $999 in the US and R$ 3300 in Brazil. The PS4 price *is* grossly out of the curve and there's no spinning that.
Click to expand...

I'm no tax specialist, I'm just a gamer. But I'm pretty sure that videogames taxes are way heavier than home appliances'. I know that games are taxed for ~70% and, I think, that home appliances are taxed for ~25% (not sure on that one, and there may be different tax categories for "home appliances").
 
C

crozier

Member
I wouldn't be surprised if MS somehow played a more direct role in this. As part of the agreement to manufacture the X1 in Brazil, Sony got hit with every tax that it was legally possible to apply to their product.

There's no way that Sony is doing this out of "greed" because it's only going to tank the product there. Literally no chance in hell. Something else is afoot.
 
N

Nightengale

Member
chancellor said:
Xbox to win in Brazil I reckon, is it tax the reason the ps4 costs so much?
Click to expand...

Only if Xbox is cheaper in the grey market.

In developing countries with major tax implications, the grey markets of import models are the models most widely purchased, not the official local models.

While I'm sure Sony wants their margins, they could afford to price it so uncompetitively to Xbox is because most consumers at those countries won't be buying them at those prices in the first place.
 
M

M3d10n

Member
Metra said:
I'm no tax specialist, I'm just a gamer. But I'm pretty sure that videogames taxes are way heavier than home appliances'. I know that games are taxed for ~70% and, I think, that home appliances are taxed for ~25% (not sure on that one, and there may be different tax categories for "home appliances").
Click to expand...

I edited my post with multipliers and added the 3DS to it for reference:

M3d10n said:
Oh, c'mon. Find any electronics that costs $399 in the US and sells by R$ 3999 in Brazil and you might have a point about taxes and subsidizing, but I'm struggling to find any:

- The MacBook Air costs $999 in the US and R$ 4199 in Brazil (4.2X).
- The iPad 4 costs $499 in the US and R$ 1749 in Brazil (3.5X).
- The GeForce Titan costs $999 in the US and R$ 3300 in Brazil (3.3X).
- The Nintendo 3DS costs $169 in the US and R$ 699 in Brazil (4.13X).

- Playstation 4 costs $399 in the US and R$ 3999 in Brazil (10X).

The PS4 price *is* grossly out of the curve and there's no spinning that.
Click to expand...

The 3DS is also a videogame, it's not manufactured in Brazil in any shape or form, is actually sold by a 3rd party distributor, not a proper Nintendo branch and it's "price ratio" is less than half the PS4's. Even when the 3DS was sold by R$ 899, that's still 5.3X and nowhere near the PS4's 10X ratio.

We're talking about a product that is sold by exactly ten times it's US numeric price. I can't think of any other electronics that follow this pricing logic. It's automobile territory.
 
Freeman

Freeman

Banned
Nightengale said:
Only if Xbox is cheaper in the grey market.

In developing countries with major tax implications, the grey markets of import models are the models most widely purchased, not the official local models.

While I'm sure Sony wants their margins, they could afford to price it so uncompetitively to Xbox is because most consumers at those countries won't be buying them at those prices in the first place.
Click to expand...

The only way that the PS4 would cost more on the grey market is if there is to much demand or perceived value.
 
R

Rubius

Member
Zekra Dezivad said:
Why it cost so much more that One?
I believed that Sony would be aggressive in these markets.



Why being greedy in Brazialian market only? Sorry, but it doesn't make sense. In every other market PS4 cost less than Xbox One.
Also, brazialian vg market isn't even big enough to justify a greedy behaviour.
Click to expand...

Seem more like the Brazil government do not like video games in general. Kinda like how Australia cost 10-20$ more.
 
M

mjswooosh

Banned
S¡mon;86372551 said:
Thank your government.
Click to expand...

Brazil is doing some things right...and better than the US government (which isn't saying much), including some of their trade policies...but overly protective tariffs aren't productive. This is a crazy silly markup on a product. On the other end of the spectrum, the US government has idiotic trade policies which keep imports low in cost while destroying US based jobs. There is a middle ground that works well: see Germany.
 
S

SwiftDeath

Member
I honestly don't even get the logic of upping the price

How does Sony Brasil benefit?

Do they honestly think they'll sell enough at that price point compared to something more reasonable?

I have to imagine the revenue would be much better at a sub-$800 price point

Sony worldwide will see their sales numbers and ask WTF?

I just can't fathom it, unless the top people at sony brasil somehow get bonuses based on profits or something

It just seems dumb
 
M

Metra

Member
M3d10n said:
I edited my post with multipliers and added the 3DS to it for reference:



The 3DS is also a videogame, it's not manufactured in Brazil in any shape or form, is actually sold by a 3rd party distributor, not a proper Nintendo branch and it's "price ratio" is less than half the PS4's. Even when the 3DS was sold by R$ 899, that's still 5.3X and nowhere near the PS4's 10X ratio.
Click to expand...

This issue is explained in that video. Taxes are applied over previous taxes. I don't know if it's the same thing, but it's like the "simple interest and compound interest" reasoning. PS4 has a higher base value/price than the 3DS and, when you apply the taxes, that difference upscales greatly. Besides, Nintendo could be subsidizing the 3DS, like MS is doing with the X1 in Brazil and (probably) other territories.

In the end, PS4 has an absurd price in Brazil mainly because of high tax, and because Sony is not subsidizing it (unlike MS with the X1). In my opinion, that's the most reasonable explanation so far.
 
TTOOLL

TTOOLL

Member
you can also tweet to @PlayStation_BR

I was naive enough to expect it to be cheaper than the XBONE, if so I would buy instantly. But 4k? lol
They just can't justify this bullshit. Anyway, the biggest problem is that people WILL still buy it.
 
M

mjswooosh

Banned
Freeman said:
You're so wrong it is sad. The economy isn't booming(it looked like it would for a brief moment to those who were unfamiliar with our reality), you need to update your facts.

If we need something(and we do) it is to become more competitive and to do so we need a simplified tax system and way less taxes, less government intervention in the economy(right now it controls gas prices, exchange rates, most of the credit available, it actively promotes monopolies in various sectors and so on) not mention many other reforms.

All that isn't going to happen, the protests you might have seen on TV were asking for more government intervention(it started specifically with the demand for the government to freeze public transportation tickets and as of late it has been dominated by public workers demanding more privileges), we are clearly going the wrong way.

In the last 10 years we've manage to destroy most of the structural pillars left by the previous administration (inflation targets, the law of fiscal responsibility and a floating exchange rate), we are just living a long summer.

About we taking "your" jobs, you can't pick and choose the effects a globalized economy will have, you can't both have your cake and eat it too (a PS4 costs 399$ for a reason). Plus Brazil isn't India or China, you're not exporting\losing that many jobs to us(we are not so competitive, the things we produce are expensive as well).
Click to expand...

Be careful what you wish for. As an example, what the US currently has is a fascist style plutocratic oligarchy fueled by a mutated form of crony/vampire capitalism that has been allowed to literally purchase the government lock, stock, and barrel...and then essentially create national or regional monopolies in nearly every marketplace in this country. Furthermore, the complete absence of effective government regulation in most industries including banking is the primary underlying cause of the global melt-down in 2007-08. There is a middle ground that works well, which this country utilized for roughly 3 decades in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. That is a model that could be studied and implemented by this country and others.
 
SHADES

SHADES

Member
Having discovered the cost Brazilians pay for consoles I've a new found respect for them & this will go into considerstion when I come across a Brazilian lagging out euro servers on the battlefield, thou shall no longer kick ;-)
 
P

Platy

Member
M3d10n said:
- The Nintendo 3DS costs $169 in the US and R$ 699 in Brazil (4.13X).

- Playstation 4 costs $399 in the US and R$ 3999 in Brazil (10X).

The PS4 price *is* grossly out of the curve and there's no spinning that.
Click to expand...

The others are not videogame related.

3DS has a MUCH smaller size and weight compared to the PS4.

But more importantly, Sony Brasil is going REALY bad .... I heard some stuffs about Sony Pictures Brasil starting to print games =P

Also
Vita WiFi edition at FNAC
10RngPa.png


Same vita at amazon
auO19ks.png


Not THAT diferent from the ps4
 
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