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The most popular game console on Black Friday 2021 isn't the PlayStation 5 — it's the $300 Xbox Series S (due to availability)

This thread is about the console performance during Black Friday. As soon as people point out why the Xbox Series S sold more, you guys don't want to hear it and you just want to accuse people of downplaying. Facts are often hard to accept around here.

"You guys?" :pie_thinking: ...



j/k of course

But seriously tho, no one's got an issue with the fact it was more readily available and that's what helped it sell the most on BF. The issue is there are people using that as THE ONLY reason it sold well at all, as if most regular folks would just throw away $300 on something they don't have any interest in, when they could have just saved that money for what they actually did want, or wanted more.

I can buy some individuals going with picking up a Series S as a back-up if they were actually wanting a PS5 or Series X instead. But some people are making it seem like those types make up the majority of Series S buyers, BF or not, and that just simply isn't the case. Common sense should tell as much.

I think Sony missed a trick by not having a PS5 Series S of their own. Imagine how many consoles they wouldve sold had they launched with a console with 1/3rd the tflops. 3.33 tflops, same cpu, same ssd. $299. Actually, with the XSS pretty much offering 1/4th the performance of the XSX, Sony couldve built a 2.5 tflops console pairing it with a zen 2 cpu and still wouldve had a next gen console offering 1080p performance.

Big miscalculation by Jim Ryan. Hopefully next gen, they will release a 10 tflops SKU alongside their 40 tflops next gen premium console for all the 1080p owners.

What MS did has its benefits and drawbacks. The drawbacks are that they have to divide their wafer production, SSD capacities, RAM capacities, motherboard production, casing production, packaging production etc. in anticipation of perceived demand. That's a lot of things to meticulously weigh out between what goes for the S and what goes for the X.

At most all Sony has to do is decide what amount of Blu-Ray drives they want, maybe an IC that does or doesn't get used for handling that, and casing design, which is really only for one half of the casing as the other is the same for both models. The packaging is also mostly the same between them. However, the drawback here is kind of self-imposed; to move the Digital unit they have to price it $100 less and that's the model they technically are still losing money on.

I say technically because they are barely producing any PS5 Digitals, for that exact reason I just mentioned. So they're saving production costs by artificially limiting production capacity of the Digital version, in favor of the Disc model.

Sony is perfectionist. They want everything to be high class.

Their direction seems to be the apple way. Offer high quality products, which people will spend tons of money.

People are spending 70$ on their 1st party games, without a question.

Xss console like would hinder that progress.

So Sony's products are overpriced for the quality they provide? Because that's a common symptom of Apple's hardware these days: overpriced and only really being good at one or two things but generally lacking in other areas compared to rivals. Also you're making a hardware discussion into a software one out of literally nowhere.

You can still provide a high-quality product in terms of ergonomics, durability, build quality etc. while being cheaper, many other electronics manufacturers are able to do this. I think you are conflating "high class" with "high performance"; they aren't necessarily the same. Back to Apple, they may have products with premium finishes and build quality, but performance-wise they aren't at the top in their price range. Honestly I could say the same about most of Microsoft's Surface devices though; you will often find higher-performance devices in their price ranges from companies like Lenovo, Asus, HP, Dell etc.

In terms of build quality, Series S is pretty high up there. For its price range, you won't really find a comparable OEM PC, laptop, or similar gaming console offering specs comparable to it. The system's basically designed with the Series X featureset but targeting lower resolution output. We'll see long-term how it plays out but I'm definitely willing to put money on the idea it won't be a hindrance compared to the opposite.

EDIT: Oh, and Nintendo's own existence negates the point of you bringing up Sony's software sales to imply "high class" premium quality or whatnot. Their 1P sells more units than Sony's, retains MSRP far longer, and their consoles for the past 15 years have had the worst specs and middling production quality on average.

If anything, them doing something similar to a Series S would get more people to spend money on their 1P titles since the savings would translate to higher software sales at MSRP or near-MSRP.

That really does seem to be narrative here. I've seen plenty praise Sony for getting a higher chip allocation, which lead to many more PS5's being available early on. MS using much of their Series X stock to build out server blades for game streaming only made things even worse for availability.

I've seen several people praise Sony and even Jim Ryan for putting so many PS5's out there given the circumstances. Not once, have I seen anyone here criticize them for it (Which would be wrong), or claim it only sold so well due to the Series X being in such short supply. (Which would also be wrong)

Yet, anytime there's even a hint of positive sales news for anything Xbox... Just like clockwork. The same people rushing out in front to pipe everyone down, and inform them that despite whatever they heard... Nobody wants an Xbox, and that all the people that bought one were really wanting a PS5.

Be it Black Friday, a random month NPD, or Gamepass subs. Without fail, there will be a group of people that will downplay, excuse, and derail the thread until either everyone moves on, or it gets locked. Either way, the last couple of pages will mostly consist of those people laughing and high-fiving each other for yet another job well done.

Basically this, and it's starting to just get repetitive, boring, and tired at this point. People think I'm an Xbox fanboy because of the posts I make in threads like these, but I wouldn't have to make them in the first place if certain people didn't have literal meltdowns and go into salty fanboy tears over a simple thing like Series S selling well on Black Friday. You can tell their intent to belittle it, too, because they keep harping on the "it was widely available" angle as if to suggest that's the only reason anyone bothered to buy it, as if they simply HAD to get a console and even if they had zero desire for an S, they'd rather blow away $300 on it because hey, apparently most people can freely throw away $300 in today's economy post-COVID on a game console they don't even want, go figure 🤷‍♂️

Similar has happened (not just here, but also on places like ERA, where IMO it's actually worst because they can't even have genuine open discussion about this stuff or else mods will rampantly ban them for being "too mean" or stuff like that) when Series X/S won one of the NPDs this year (a summer one IIRC). Most people claiming it was only due to supply being constrained for PS5, as if Series S or even X had no demand from people and they were just purchased out of desperation. It's like, tell me you're a fanboy without telling me you're a fanboy, by this point xD.

It's like I said before: a lot of people doing it just want Xbox to fail, plain and simple. They are adamantly against the brand seeing any form of upward progress or success, because to them that directly threatens Sony. These guys still think we're in the same console industry as 1995 or whatever, or when you could only have two healthy platforms and one always seemed to fall to the wayside. But the industry has grown and changed a lot since those days, to the point any rational person would realize you don't NEED to have one platform that's the laggard in order to ensure one of the others is doing well.

The irony is also that a lot of these same people were saying Xbox needed to compete this gen, but it turns out they were only making pleasantries. When it became apparent Microsoft was actually going to genuinely compete this gen, well their real feelings have been coming out ever since. Some folks just need to grow up WRT this console stuff, and I say that as someone planning to mainly play on PC this gen!
 
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ManaByte

Member
I think you guys overestimate how many people want to spend over 500 dollars for a system. 300 dollars is way more consumer friendly.

Preface: I consider "modern" gaming to be the 32-bit era to now. Anything prior to the PSX/Saturn/3DO is "retro".

In the entire history of modern gaming, $299 was ALWAYS the mass-market price point.

People conveniently forget Sony's mic-drop moment at E3 1995. After Sega surprise-launched the Saturn at $399, Sony shut up everyone with this:


That was such a huge moment because the PlayStation was launching at Day 1 at what was considered the mass-market price.

Sega scrambled to get a Saturn out at $299.

The PS2 launched at $299. The 360 had a $299 core system and the 20GB HDD version for $399.

It wasn't until the PS3 that we began to see consoles from one of the "big 3" launching above $399.

The whole reason why you saw multiple PS3 and 360 slim models was to lower the price of the consoles. A console won't hit total mass market saturation until they're at $299 or under.
 

DForce

Member
But seriously tho, no one's got an issue with the fact it was more readily available and that's what helped it sell the most on BF. The issue is there are people using that as THE ONLY reason it sold well at all, as if most regular folks would just throw away $300 on something they don't have any interest in, when they could have just saved that money for what they actually did want, or wanted more.

I can buy some individuals going with picking up a Series S as a back-up if they were actually wanting a PS5 or Series X instead. But some people are making it seem like those types make up the majority of Series S buyers, BF or not, and that just simply isn't the case. Common sense should tell as much.

The bold part is a lie. This thread proves that. As soon as people pointed out that it was because of stock issues, people didn't want to hear it. Pointing out what's stated in the article shouldn't be an issue.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
I think you guys overestimate how many people want to spend over 500 dollars for a system. 300 dollars is way more consumer friendly.
I agree.
Imagine being a grandparent who is looking to for a XSX and is reluctant to spend the $500 to find out its not in stock but the $300 xss is and the employee tells you it plays the same games.
Sounds like they are walking out with a xss.
 

dvdvideo

Member
I don't get your argument at all.

Console announcements are kinda a big deal bud. Gaming media and even mainstream media report about them and usually they are quoting marketing claims, technical specifications and other pertinent stuff.


All your argument seems to be is making ignorant assumptions that the casual gamer will never be told about a claim made in a marketing video. As if it's a secret that isn't allowed to be uttered outside of GAF and the diehard audience.


When the only sensible assumption we can actually make is: more people other than GAF and die hards gamers saw or became aware of the marketing claims about the XSS, by either word or mouth, an article, someone on internet.. many many ways of getting informed nowadays.

But in your head only people who know about Ronald's claim is GAF and die hard audience? Can you back that up? Or something you just like to believe?

Why are you more interested in who saw a video rather than the ill-judged claims within it anyway. Bizarre.


Some really weak stereotyping going on here.

It's pretty obvious actually, if you look at the launch trailers for series X it's at like 14 million views, the S at 7 million, and the technical breakdown videos at 1 to 2 million views.

What I don't understand about your argument is, if your saying what I propose is stereotyping and ignorant assumptions, what are yours? Somehow based in some deeply rooted facts?
If you say my opinion based on anecdotal evidence is invalid, so is yours, you can't have it both ways.
 

Deerock71

Member
12 pages of users pointlessly arguing which console sells the most, but in reality Nintendo Switch is the winner on black friday and cyber money sales.

These are the hottest items.


While I don't disagree at all, the distinction would be lack of Switch OLEDs. How did that become a thing? I paid more to get a Switch OLED (thank God it showed up and looks immaculate...FUCK SCALPERS!)...let me correct myself; I paid for the OLED what I would've paid for a PS5 or an XSX. Now I've got two birds in hand (SWOLED, XSS), and I can put those under the tree this Christmas.
 
Its is. You dont bring these issues to undermine the fact that the console is selling alot.

Its like saying the iphone 13 plus was selling alot, because the iphone 13 wasnt on stock.

If people really wanted the iphone 13, they would have waited, and not buy the iphone 13 plus.

That is the argument people are making, when they bring other consoles short stock.

Agreed, and that's basically what this is all about: lots of people ITT acting aloof, as if people are at gunpoint being forced to buy Series S units because it's the only new console available. It's a narrative born out of sheer desperation, and as someone else mentioned earlier, a ridiculous argument considering PS5 was being praised for most of the year for being able to produce more units and be smart with their supply chain, shortages aside.

I mean we've already seen a LONG time ago that gamers will pass up on an otherwise great deal if they don't have enough desire for it, if there's something else they want. That literally happened to Dreamcast (sadly), as most people ended up passing on it to wait for a PS2, even with Sega's various offers available to make it cheaper.

The fact we have actual historical evidence that shows the complete opposite of the narrative some people want to try pretending is real, is enough reason to laugh at that false narrative.

Are you being dumb on purpose or… Like seriously this isnt rocket science….

What he’s saying is. Series S is selling alot because PS5 and X have basically no supply. In other words Series S would be forgotten if those other two were available.

Why would it be? And by whom? And why are you trying to force the article writer's words into what YOU want them to be; that line in the article can be interpreted different ways depending on who's reading it. Most people aren't going to read it and assume they're saying "no one wants the Series S at all unless they're forced as an absolute last option to get it".

Which also means Series S is the last option for people looking to get a next gen system and thats why it’s available everywhere.

TFYA?

We have people here ”believing” that the series S is as desirable as those other two which has no basis in reality. Basically delutional fanboys at play. The last part is whats being argued over if you didnt get that by now. NOT that series S is selling alot during black friday….

That's literally what no one has been saying, now you're just conjuring a narrative to argue against that didn't exist in the first place. What people are saying is that there is desire enough for Series S so that people would want to actually buy it, because believe it or not, they need to have a reason to want something to buy it if it's not an essential item, otherwise most people would wait until what they really wanted is available to purchase.

What are you talking about? Did you even bother to read the article from the OP? Here.....let me help you....

"Unlike the highly sought after PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X consoles, the Series S is actually available to buy. "

And this is where some of the disfunctional discourse is coming from; there are people interpreting this in a way to associate a strong negative connotation and then apply that as an asterik when talking Series S sales on BF. They are also taking this single sentence and deliberately exaggerating it to imply extremes WRT demand (particularly for Series S) that simply do not exist in a wider context. Even if it's less desirable than Series X or PS5, there IS still desire from lots of people to buy one, hence why it's selling.

Regardless, you are factually wrong in saying those statements are contradictory. The XSS can sell a lot of consoles and the XSX/PS5 can be out of stock concurrently.

The issue is even if both are simultaneously true, there are individuals (a lot of them, in fact) using that reality and manipulating it into a talking point that is loaded with negative connotations to essentially dismiss or downplay Series S's BF sales. That's the problem, not necessarily the article itself.
 
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dcmk7

Member
It's pretty obvious actually, if you look at the launch trailers for series X it's at like 14 million views, the S at 7 million, and the technical breakdown videos at 1 to 2 million views.

What I don't understand about your argument is, if your saying what I propose is stereotyping and ignorant assumptions, what are yours? Somehow based in some deeply rooted facts?
If you say my opinion based on anecdotal evidence is invalid, so is yours, you can't have it both ways.
It's defies all logic to suggest that no one knows about the marketing claim except die-hards and GAF. There is such a thing as media and word of mouth.

My point was that Series S marketing was more misleading than the XSX and PS5, which is it. You decided to say my point doesn't count because not even one casual follower watched it. Which is quite an ignorant claim based on nothing at all.

if your saying what I propose is stereotyping and ignorant assumptions, so is yours
Your example was the definition of stereotyping of tens of millions of people bud.



Whereas I made an assumption that casuals (even if was just a single person) are aware of the marketing claim as a result of this PR video. They could be made aware of that through media, gaming sites, blog post, twitter, word or mouth or talking to staff in a gaming shop.. it could be absolutely anything from anywhere.. so yeah, it's very safe to assume that someone in that many tens of millions of people have heard that the XSS is the XSX just at a lower resolution - just like the PR line.

It's just common sense that at least one casual becomes aware of a PR claim.
 
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MrA

Member
I think you guys overestimate how many people want to spend over 500 dollars for a system. 300 dollars is way more consumer friendly.
we've got some here that think the ps5 would have sold 30 million units in 1 year if they were available,
anyway the xss is definitely the best option for the cod/fifa/madden/gta casuals that want an upgrade for the lowest price possible
 

Topher

Gold Member
And this is where some of the disfunctional discourse is coming from; there are people interpreting this in a way to associate a strong negative connotation and then apply that as an asterik when talking Series S sales on BF. They are also taking this single sentence and deliberately exaggerating it to imply extremes WRT demand (particularly for Series S) that simply do not exist in a wider context. Even if it's less desirable than Series X or PS5, there IS still desire from lots of people to buy one, hence why it's selling.



The issue is even if both are simultaneously true, there are individuals (a lot of them, in fact) using that reality and manipulating it into a talking point that is loaded with negative connotations to essentially dismiss or downplay Series S's BF sales. That's the problem, not necessarily the article itself.

I see no logical reason to simply ignore the fact that the $500 consoles are severely constrained in supply and the $300 console is not. That is not "disfunctional discourse". It is factual discourse.

But I've been over this and I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole again.
 
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scydrex

Member
Preface: I consider "modern" gaming to be the 32-bit era to now. Anything prior to the PSX/Saturn/3DO is "retro".

In the entire history of modern gaming, $299 was ALWAYS the mass-market price point.

People conveniently forget Sony's mic-drop moment at E3 1995. After Sega surprise-launched the Saturn at $399, Sony shut up everyone with this:


That was such a huge moment because the PlayStation was launching at Day 1 at what was considered the mass-market price.

Sega scrambled to get a Saturn out at $299.

The PS2 launched at $299. The 360 had a $299 core system and the 20GB HDD version for $399.

It wasn't until the PS3 that we began to see consoles from one of the "big 3" launching above $399.

The whole reason why you saw multiple PS3 and 360 slim models was to lower the price of the consoles. A console won't hit total mass market saturation until they're at $299 or under.

And what did you wanted? That MS only sells the Series S and Sony a PS5 for $300? No thanks.
 
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after the sticky discussion get better ....but that neogaf has been and continues to be Sony GAF is a fact. period .... it was 10 years ago and still is. I don't want to remind you of the foolishness made by famous mods after they were discovered using accounts to continually discredit Ms .. same mods that banned very often pro Ms users...What fairness do you think a mods team can have that allows that kind of thing?.let's be serious and say things how really are. Fortunately, after the creation of the other forum they realized that everything could not be so biased and evident.

Hmmm

"You were warned for console warring. Take a week off. Sticky still applies."

I really think you need to work on that. My advice is to not take everything so seriously here and just pay attention to the warnings that you get. It's not worth getting a ban over console warring IMO.
 

ManaByte

Member
And what did you wanted? That MS only sells the Series S and Sony a PS5 for $300? No thanks. If you want get the Series S is the console for you for $300. I prefer a more expensive console with better specs.

PS4 launched at $399. Sony produced a PS4 Slim before the end of the generation at $299. You better believe they want to get that $399 PS5 digital down to $299 ASAP.
 

DForce

Member
And this is where some of the disfunctional discourse is coming from; there are people interpreting this in a way to associate a strong negative connotation and then apply that as an asterik when talking Series S sales on BF. They are also taking this single sentence and deliberately exaggerating it to imply extremes WRT demand (particularly for Series S) that simply do not exist in a wider context. Even if it's less desirable than Series X or PS5, there IS still desire from lots of people to buy one, hence why it's selling

UK Report



The Xbox Series S was the second best-selling console in the UK during Black Friday week and he explains why. If he was in this thread, he would tell you the exact same thing.
 

scydrex

Member
PS4 launched at $399. Sony produced a PS4 Slim before the end of the generation at $299. You better believe they want to get that $399 PS5 digital down to $299 ASAP.

Sure but a PS5 for $300 right now is not enough. If they do it with a PS5 digital slim fine for $300 a bargain but right now no.
 

MrA

Member
UK Report



The Xbox Series S was the second best-selling console in the UK during Black Friday week and he explains why. If he was in this thread, he would tell you the exact same thing.
but that also means there was enough demand to sell those units, maybe the other 2 would have sold more, maybe not, we don't know
 

FrankWza

Member
So you're telling me that people are buying something they don't want because the item they do want isn't available ? Who spends 300 dollars plus on something they don't want?
You think I should start a online business where people sell unwanted items of all denominations? What about a place where you can trade in video game consoles and games? Nah, that’s a dumb idea and it will never work. It’s best to leave it in your garage for 20 years and sell it for $5
 
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I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to understand what the article is saying about the stock.

There's always the chance that they made a mistake but there's no denying what they are saying about the stock.

So the article could be wrong about Series S being the best-selling for BF, but right about it (to the interpretation of some people) only selling because of stock? Sounds like a scenario a person would rather want to be the case, because statistically speaking the article could be right about both, or wrong about both, or wrong about the latter while being right about the other.

There's literally none of those options that have a higher probability than the other, considering the line about stock is mainly being re-contextualized by some people into something implicatively more damning than need be.

Considering it seems like Microsoft almost never have drops on the XSX where I live compared to Sony with the PS5, this doesn’t really surprise me. It’s by far the most available. Hey, we got 30 PS5’s in stock!!! Oh? You looking for an XSX? Well, we only received 5 XSX’s total unfortunately for the last 6 months. Would you like an XSS instead?

I would be interested in knowing what they plan to do for Series X availability going forward, now that they've got their Azure servers fitted with some of those units. But, I also don't think this is the best time to have that particular conversation.

Most people want a PS5 or SX but if they can't find any they are buying SS because it's in stock everywhere. Parents/people don't want to disappoint family members as Christmas is close.
Let's put it this way if all consoles were in stock equally the SS would be last even beaten by Switch Lite SKU.

How strong are those anus fumes to cause this type of post?

The data shows exactly that. So i don’t know why it doesnt make sense to you? why is it so ”hard” for you lot to understand the basics of supply and demand.

My claim that the series s is the last option makes complete sense because its based on the much higher demand for both X and PS5. Does that mean that there’s no one who wants a series s no, but the majority would rather get a Series X/PS5 rather than S right now. Also based on factuall data not feelings.

If it's based on factual data then post that data up to back up your claims. Otherwise at this point you're just riding an assumed point of agreement and other talking points hyped up by your own emotions if anything.

I think the gap in demand between PS5, Series X and Series S among the majority of gaming customers is nowhere near as big as you think it is, but if you're only focusing on hardcore/core early adopter types then that's an easy way to think it would be that way. You have to step out of that bubble. And just because the gap between them demand-wise may not be as massive as some want to think it is, doesn't mean a demand gap doesn't exist. The existence of a gap in demand whatsoever was never a point of contention so it's silly to keep trying to make it seem like that's what up for discussion.

If price point really was a big factor as you put it the s would be flying off shelves from the moment it launched.

Based on, again, what? How do you know it wasn't? It's not like the S has been struggling to sell as a whole; if it has lower demand among hardcore/core gamers than PS5 and Series X then knowing the shopping habits of them vs. more mainstream and casual gamers, not to mention the very real lockdown and economic situations brought about last year due to COVID that we were only just somewhat starting to come out of (and to this day we're still in the early phases of that :S), it's not surprising if Series S units weren't "flying off store shelves", despite otherwise doing well enough in sales to justify further production, supply, and distribution.

The series s is the only ”next gen” console that you can find in stores right now! Let that sink in.

That literally tells nothing other than supply is good. Yet here you are, trying to twist it into a negative connotation WRT demand/desire. Also the fact you even put next-gen in quotations for it tells everything about your bias in this conversation. There's a reason most people are laughing at your posts.

Funny thing you mentioned that. You guys choose to go through all this mental gymnastics which makes you look bloody stupid tbh, just because you want a console to succeed so much so that you’ve thrown logic out the window? I mean if that’s not console warring i don’t know what is…. 🤷🏻‍♀️

"Wanting" a console to succeed? I think the numbers so far would show it is indeed succeeding, especially if you take division revenue into account. No one needs to "wish and hope" Series S does well. But in your eyes perhaps, it needs to do "well" like the PS5 is doing in order for you to consider it a healthy platform?

If that's the case, that's a bad standard to go by, it's like saying a modestly-budgeted indie film needs to make Endgame bank in order to be successful.

This is only loosely related, but as I lived in a few "stock alert" discords for RTX's and consoles for a long while. The amount of people I saw just buying what they could, was pretty high. Can't get a 3080 but a 3080ti is in stock, might as well just spend whatever extra and get that, can't get that, but a 3090, buy that.

People buying whatever they can get their hands on when stock issues are so bad is not uncommon, and with the holidays it makes perfect sense that the S would just sell out it's stock (cause even during normal times holiday rush to buy causes products to sell out).

Can't get the Series X for Timmy at the moment, well they have the S, so I'll buy that so I have something to give him, maybe if I can get an X I'll just return the S, but at least I have something.


A lot of arguing over normal shit because you guys have nothing better to do, latching on to this useless news and console warring bullshit. kinda sad.

How many Little Timmys' are getting a Series X or PS5 in the first year? Not that many I'd reckon. The vast majority picking up these systems ATM are adults, and most of them are buying them for themselves or other adult loved ones. The only larger exception to that is Series S, which some are likely picking up as a secondary family console (such as to complement a household with Switches).

Your example still doesn't dismiss what is the real point of conversation here: that there IS demand for Series S, enough that people are still buying one due to that demand, even if that demand for some may not be as high as their desire for a Series X or PS5. Yes, would some of them have purchased the other two if they were available instead? Of course. But there are still folks who'd buy a Series S even in light of X or PS5 availability due to other reasons, such as price, bundle deals, or using it as an affordable retro gaming system & GamePass machine.

The fact some of you aren't even able to consider this just shows how much of a bubble you live in WRT gaming, you're definitely only seeing things from a hardcore/core console gamer early adopter POV when the total market is MUCH larger than that.

UK Report



The Xbox Series S was the second best-selling console in the UK during Black Friday week and he explains why. If he was in this thread, he would tell you the exact same thing.

UK != The World. Wider Context != Global Market, necessarily.

You're starting to act like those people who are ignorant on a subject and cling to information from trusted sources (in some cases, supposed) to use as a bullet point in a debate while missing the actual context of the people you're responding to.

It's okay, Gumball, you're just cranky. Go get some sleep 😴

I see no logical reason to simply ignore the fact that the $500 consoles are severely constrained in supply and the $300 console is not. That is not "disfunctional discourse". It is factual discourse.

But I've been over this and I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole again.

That response wasn't specifically aimed at you, as if I were insinuating you are one of those people using that fact as a loaded talking point for dismissive purposes. I'm just saying, it as a factual point IS being manipulated by a lot of certain folks to downplay Series S's sales as mentioned in this report.

So in the similar way you claim we can't ignore the fact the other consoles were heavily supply-constrained and that Series S being in supply helped it sell more, you yourself should be able to agree with the claim) that there are definitely people using that very fact in a loaded, negative context to act dismissively and downplay the Series S's noted sales for BF (and in a lot of cases, just being dismissive and belittling of the console altogether, i.e O On Demand 's incredibly salty, whiny meltdown).

That's a rabbit hole I'd like a lot of folks to dig themselves out of so I can get the hell out of here, but fourteen pages later and we're still here 😓
 
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The bold part is a lie. This thread proves that. As soon as people pointed out that it was because of stock issues, people didn't want to hear it. Pointing out what's stated in the article shouldn't be an issue.

Why are so many people adamant on pointing out something in an article that everyone can clearly read, then? You see that there is an intent behind everything that's likely fueled by some type of emotion, even if the thing in question is posting a sentence directly from the article?

We can probably truthfully claim at least 50% of the people "reminding" folks about the stock issues weren't doing it simply to remind them...and that intent is what's the bigger point of discussion here. And that's been leading a good number of them to reiterate and zero-in on that fact (the stock situation) in ways to be dismissive and belittling towards Series S's BF sales and the system as a whole.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
It's defies all logic to suggest that no one knows about the marketing claim except die-hards and GAF. There is such a thing as media and word of mouth.

Hell, I'm a die-hard on GAF and I have no idea where this absolute guarantee of 1440p came from, certainly nothing released by MS. They put 1440p on a bullet list, put 120fps on there too. Only any idiot would take that as a guarantee that all games (or any) are necessarily both 1440p and 120fps. This is the same with 8k and 120fps with XSX/PS5. Does software exist that runs at 1440p on XSS? Check! Does software exist that runs at 120fps? Check! Does software exist where the only difference between the consoles is resolution? Check! This big marketing gotcha just doesn't exist.

In a market where we have systems launching with 8k stamped on the box when the units can't even output that res until months after release, anything MS has done marketing wise for XSS is small potatoes.
 

dcmk7

Member
Hell, I'm a die-hard on GAF and I have no idea where this absolute guarantee of 1440p came from, certainly nothing released by MS. They put 1440p on a bullet list, put 120fps on there too. Only any idiot would take that as a guarantee that all games (or any) are necessarily both 1440p and 120fps. This is the same with 8k and 120fps with XSX/PS5. Does software exist that runs at 1440p on XSS? Check! Does software exist that runs at 120fps? Check! Does software exist where the only difference between the consoles is resolution? Check! This big marketing gotcha just doesn't exist.

In a market where we have systems launching with 8k stamped on the box when the units can't even output that res until months after release, anything MS has done marketing wise for XSS is small potatoes.

I am afraid to say you haven't followed the conversation.
 
So the article could be wrong about Series S being the best-selling for BF, but right about it (to the interpretation of some people) only selling because of stock? Sounds like a scenario a person would rather want to be the case, because statistically speaking the article could be right about both, or wrong about both, or wrong about the latter while being right about the other.

There's literally none of those options that have a higher probability than the other, considering the line about stock is mainly being re-contextualized by some people into something implicatively more damning than need be.

Well the Series S was always the one I saw in stock so I assume it's easier to get than the PS5 or XSX on BF. I don't necessarily believe that people are buying XSS because they can't get the other two though.
 

bargeparty

Member
So the article could be wrong about Series S being the best-selling for BF, but right about it (to the interpretation of some people) only selling because of stock? Sounds like a scenario a person would rather want to be the case, because statistically speaking the article could be right about both, or wrong about both, or wrong about the latter while being right about the other.

There's literally none of those options that have a higher probability than the other, considering the line about stock is mainly being re-contextualized by some people into something implicatively more damning than need be.



I would be interested in knowing what they plan to do for Series X availability going forward, now that they've got their Azure servers fitted with some of those units. But, I also don't think this is the best time to have that particular conversation.



How strong are those anus fumes to cause this type of post?



If it's based on factual data then post that data up to back up your claims. Otherwise at this point you're just riding an assumed point of agreement and other talking points hyped up by your own emotions if anything.

I think the gap in demand between PS5, Series X and Series S among the majority of gaming customers is nowhere near as big as you think it is, but if you're only focusing on hardcore/core early adopter types then that's an easy way to think it would be that way. You have to step out of that bubble. And just because the gap between them demand-wise may not be as massive as some want to think it is, doesn't mean a demand gap doesn't exist. The existence of a gap in demand whatsoever was never a point of contention so it's silly to keep trying to make it seem like that's what up for discussion.



Based on, again, what? How do you know it wasn't? It's not like the S has been struggling to sell as a whole; if it has lower demand among hardcore/core gamers than PS5 and Series X then knowing the shopping habits of them vs. more mainstream and casual gamers, not to mention the very real lockdown and economic situations brought about last year due to COVID that we were only just somewhat starting to come out of (and to this day we're still in the early phases of that :S), it's not surprising if Series S units weren't "flying off store shelves", despite otherwise doing well enough in sales to justify further production, supply, and distribution.



That literally tells nothing other than supply is good. Yet here you are, trying to twist it into a negative connotation WRT demand/desire. Also the fact you even put next-gen in quotations for it tells everything about your bias in this conversation. There's a reason most people are laughing at your posts.



"Wanting" a console to succeed? I think the numbers so far would show it is indeed succeeding, especially if you take division revenue into account. No one needs to "wish and hope" Series S does well. But in your eyes perhaps, it needs to do "well" like the PS5 is doing in order for you to consider it a healthy platform?

If that's the case, that's a bad standard to go by, it's like saying a modestly-budgeted indie film needs to make Endgame bank in order to be successful.



How many Little Timmys' are getting a Series X or PS5 in the first year? Not that many I'd reckon. The vast majority picking up these systems ATM are adults, and most of them are buying them for themselves or other adult loved ones. The only larger exception to that is Series S, which some are likely picking up as a secondary family console (such as to complement a household with Switches).

Your example still doesn't dismiss what is the real point of conversation here: that there IS demand for Series S, enough that people are still buying one due to that demand, even if that demand for some may not be as high as their desire for a Series X or PS5. Yes, would some of them have purchased the other two if they were available instead? Of course. But there are still folks who'd buy a Series S even in light of X or PS5 availability due to other reasons, such as price, bundle deals, or using it as an affordable retro gaming system & GamePass machine.

The fact some of you aren't even able to consider this just shows how much of a bubble you live in WRT gaming, you're definitely only seeing things from a hardcore/core console gamer early adopter POV when the total market is MUCH larger than that.



UK != The World. Wider Context != Global Market, necessarily.

You're starting to act like those people who are ignorant on a subject and cling to information from trusted sources (in some cases, supposed) to use as a bullet point in a debate while missing the actual context of the people you're responding to.

It's okay, Gumball, you're just cranky. Go get some sleep 😴



That response wasn't specifically aimed at you, as if I were insinuating you are one of those people using that fact as a loaded talking point for dismissive purposes. I'm just saying, it as a factual point IS being manipulated by a lot of certain folks to downplay Series S's sales as mentioned in this report.

So in the similar way you claim we can't ignore the fact the other consoles were heavily supply-constrained and that Series S being in supply helped it sell more, you yourself should be able to agree with the claim) that there are definitely people using that very fact in a loaded, negative context to act dismissively and downplay the Series S's noted sales for BF (and in a lot of cases, just being dismissive and belittling of the console altogether, i.e O On Demand 's incredibly salty, whiny meltdown).

That's a rabbit hole I'd like a lot of folks to dig themselves out of so I can get the hell out of here, but fourteen pages later and we're still here 😓

I can't believe you're taking the time to make these huge responses. Do you have a large stake in MS or something? Why do you people care so much about sales figures?
 

kingfey

Member
Most people want a PS5 or SX but if they can't find any they are buying SS because it's in stock everywhere. Parents/people don't want to disappoint family members as Christmas is close.
Let's put it this way if all consoles were in stock equally the SS would be last even beaten by Switch Lite SKU.
You would have been right, if the xss wasn't 300$.

Most parents won't drop 500$ on a system, when there is another one at 300$.

People aren't like you, who thinks 500$ is easy money.
 

FlyyGOD

Member
Hell, I'm a die-hard on GAF and I have no idea where this absolute guarantee of 1440p came from, certainly nothing released by MS. They put 1440p on a bullet list, put 120fps on there too. Only any idiot would take that as a guarantee that all games (or any) are necessarily both 1440p and 120fps. This is the same with 8k and 120fps with XSX/PS5. Does software exist that runs at 1440p on XSS? Check! Does software exist that runs at 120fps? Check! Does software exist where the only difference between the consoles is resolution? Check! This big marketing gotcha just doesn't exist.

In a market where we have systems launching with 8k stamped on the box when the units can't even output that res until months after release, anything MS has done marketing wise for XSS is small potatoes.
It's crazy that nobody questions PS5 or Xbox Series X being a 4k machine seeing that neither machine hits 4k at an consistent rate but series s is always brought up as Microsoft lied at it being a 1440p machine.
 

Godot25

Member
So. Let me get this straight.

If Sony sells more PS5's it's because Sony is God but when Microsoft sells more Xboxes it is because players can't buy anything else?

Okay champs. It's great that people are willing to spend 300 bucks on system they don't want.

And I sure as shit believe that PlayStation fanboys gave up and bought Series S because they could not find PS5 at stores
 
You just made my point in response to the person I was directing it too.

The Series S can't do what a console that was released in 2017 (previous gen) can do, that was the point. If you go back and read the comment I was responding to, you would have a better understanding of the context of the comment.



Never said anything about FPS or that anyone preferred 4K to 1080p.

I simply said the Xbox Series S can't do what a console from the previous gen can do in response to someone saying other wise.

People need to stop taking comments about the Series S as personally attacks its ridiculous you are not being paid by MS to push Series S sales.
Again it’s not advertised as a 4k box and never was.
It’s advertised as box that will delivery next gen experiences. Aka faster frame rates and wider fields of views.
 

ZehDon

Member
This thread sure is an interesting read.

Anyway, as I understand the situation, the XSS has sold well because, well, it was on the shelves and does everything its bigger brother does. The PS5 and XSX just weren't there to be purchased. The XSS is a still a great piece of kit, but the hardcore aren't super interested in it because the XSX and PS5 are simply that much higher specced. That's a really interesting situation for Microsoft's experimental console, as frankly no one could've predicted the chip shortages and sustained demand would result in the mainline consoles remaining unavailable an entire year after launch. XSS not being on the top of the hardcore's list left it on shelves to be gobbled up come the holidays.

Xbox are attempting to accelerate the all-digital future with things like Gamepass, and now with the current console shortages, the XSS seems to be finding its time to shine. Will this push the Xbox ecosystem towards an all digital future that much faster? What I'm also really curious to see is how many XSS's are swapped out for XSXs when they become available. The XSS is still a damn fine console, but is it a case of people getting what they could to tide them over, or, has the casual market actually started to join the next gen space?
 
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dcmk7

Member
but is it a case of people getting what they could to tide them over, or has the casual market actually started to join the next gen space?
Think this is getting overlooked, people are fed up with the stock availability of the big boy consoles, so picking it up for the short term isn't the world's worst idea.

Obviously not everyone will be doing that but it's viable strategy for people who are impatient. I know someone who have recently repurchased a PS4 pro until the PS5 stock gets better.

Buying a short term console does happen. It can always be resold / kept as second console.
 
Well the Series S was always the one I saw in stock so I assume it's easier to get than the PS5 or XSX on BF. I don't necessarily believe that people are buying XSS because they can't get the other two though.

Unfortunately there are plenty of other people not only insinuating that but in some cases outright saying that to be the fact.

And it's that hyper-extreme take on it which is the point of contention. All the other stuff, like Series S being in stock more readily, less in-demand from hardcore/core gamers, I'm not disputing that. But when some people are told how wrong they are to keep belittling/downplaying Series S's BF sales as a desperation buy from people who have no interest in the system, they suddenly act as if the point of contention is about Series S supply/demand compared to Series X and especially PS5.

It'd be a clever trick if it wasn't already done countless times by now.

I can't believe you're taking the time to make these huge responses. Do you have a large stake in MS or something? Why do you people care so much about sales figures?

Lol, I wish. These companies aren't paying me a cent. This is all out of passion, passion for the truth. Truthful dialogue. Which means cutting through bad takes, misinformation and disingenuous narratives.

Which ultimately means big-ass responses in my case.

This thread sure is an interesting read.

Anyway, as I understand the situation, the XSS has sold well because, well, it was on the shelves and does everything its bigger brother does. The PS5 and XSX just weren't there to be purchased. The XSS is a still a great piece of kit, but the hardcore are super interested in it because the XSX and PS5 are simply that much higher specced. That's a really interesting situation for Microsoft's experimental console, as frankly no one could've predicted the chip shortages and sustained demand would result in the mainline consoles remaining unavailable an entire year after launch. XSS not being on the top of the hardcore's list left it on shelves to be gobbled up come the holidays.

Xbox are attempting to accelerate the all-digital future with things like Gamepass, and now with the current console shortages, the XSS seems to be finding its time to shine. Will this push the Xbox ecosystem towards an all digital future that much faster? What I'm also really curious to see is how many XSS's are swapped out for XSXs when they become available. The XSS is still a damn fine console, but is it a case of people getting what they could to tide them over, or, has the casual market actually started to join the next gen space?

If only some other posts making this a focus on ascertaining the role of Series S supply/demand into its sales had this level of thought, tact, and relative neutrality/fairness put into them...
 

Topher

Gold Member
i have not a shred of doubt that both series x and ps5 would outsell series s anytime at any moment easily.

XSX and PS5 are consistently sold out. XSS is not. If XSS, XSX, and PS5 were sold out and Atari VCS won BF then what do you think the response would be? You know. I know. We all know.
 
Unfortunately there are plenty of other people not only insinuating that but in some cases outright saying that to be the fact.

And it's that hyper-extreme take on it which is the point of contention. All the other stuff, like Series S being in stock more readily, less in-demand from hardcore/core gamers, I'm not disputing that. But when some people are told how wrong they are to keep belittling/downplaying Series S's BF sales as a desperation buy from people who have no interest in the system, they suddenly act as if the point of contention is about Series S supply/demand compared to Series X and especially PS5.

It'd be a clever trick if it wasn't already done countless times by now.

Not trying to downplay BF but it's during the time of the year when sales go up for everything. Without having a good supply of PS5s or XSXs it's hard to gauge how significant the demands really are.

I know you're not doing it but some use holidays to gauge a systems success when that isn't necessarily correct to do so.
 

kingfey

Member
XSX and PS5 are consistently sold out. XSS is not. If XSS, XSX, and PS5 were sold out and Atari VCS won BF then what do you think the response would be? You know. I know. We all know.
You are making the assumption that the series S has the same stock as both of these consoles.

Ps5 has more chips, yet it cant produce enough to meet the demand. MS has low waifers compared to ps5, But they can produce SS very fast, compared to xsx. Its why XSS has more stock than both of these consoles.

Until we see more stock of these consoles, the XSS will sell more hardwares.
 

kingfey

Member
Not trying to downplay BF but it's during the time of the year when sales go up for everything. Without having a good supply of PS5s or XSXs it's hard to gauge how significant the demands really are.

I know you're not doing it but some use holidays to gauge a systems success when that isn't necessarily correct to do so.
Most sales happen before holidays, and after holidays. That is when its easy to pick up these consoles.

Holidays is just 1 bulky Stock, which is hard to resupply due to warehouse space, and competition with other products.
 

DForce

Member
UK != The World. Wider Context != Global Market, necessarily.

You're starting to act like those people who are ignorant on a subject and cling to information from trusted sources (in some cases, supposed) to use as a bullet point in a debate while missing the actual context of the people you're responding to.

It's okay, Gumball, you're just cranky. Go get some sleep 😴

You throw insults instead of discussing the information. You're doing this because you know the information is correct but you don't want to hear it.

He explained why XSS is in the UK second place and that's because the other consoles are out of stock.

If he was in this thread, he would tell you why the XSS is in first place in the US and that's because the XSX and PS5 are out of stock.

IS that true or false? It's true. There's no reason to debate about this. The only reason why you choose to do it is that you don't like it when people mention it.

You have no problem quoting DF of VG tech for accurate information as to why one console is performing better than the other. Seems like citing sources and sharing information is not wanted unless it's to praise the Xbox.
Why are so many people adamant on pointing out something in an article that everyone can clearly read, then? You see that there is an intent behind everything that's likely fueled by some type of emotion, even if the thing in question is posting a sentence directly from the article?

We can probably truthfully claim at least 50% of the people "reminding" folks about the stock issues weren't doing it simply to remind them...and that intent is what's the bigger point of discussion here. And that's been leading a good number of them to reiterate and zero-in on that fact (the stock situation) in ways to be dismissive and belittling towards Series S's BF sales and the system as a whole.


Let's look at the previous comments in this thread.

I explained why it's a stock issue.

DForce
Many Xbox fans don't want to accept the fact that the Xbox Series S is readily available compared to the Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5.



1. It's widely available during Black Friday week
2. It's still in stock at many retailers.

No one can really dispute this. The only thing people are going to say is, "you're downplaying it" Because they don't want to accept the truth.

I gave an explanation and you then accused me of being "mad".

thicc_girls_are_teh_best
If it's the best-selling game console for BF, and still in stock, why are you so mad about Series S's sales and not more concerned with how shit supply is for Sony and apparently Nintendo?

Also, what about all the months Switch was outselling PS5 while also being readily available? Does that mean Switch wasn't selling?

I said there's nothing to be mad about. I'm just telling you what it says in the article.

DForce
There's nothing to be mad about. It says it in the article but whenever someone mentions it, you guys call it downplaying.

You're accusing people of quoting the article to downplay the fact that the XSS sold well.

thicc_girls_are_teh_best
It's not the article's fault a lot of people are otherwise using that specific info point and turning it into a talking point to "remind" people of something they don't need to be reminded of, because the truth is most people quoting it are doing so to play down the fact Series S has sold as well as it did this Black Friday.

I said this is a console performance thread during Black Friday. That means you have to compare how one console sold versus the other.

DForce
This thread is about the console performance during Black Friday. As soon as people point out why the Xbox Series S sold more, you guys don't want to hear it and you just want to accuse people of downplaying. Facts are often hard to accept around here

Ozriel replied and basically said people praised sony for being able to launch more consoles despite a launching a week later. Is irrelevant because you guys weren't allowed to mention that during the launch week.

Ozriel
Nobody here has had issues with praising Sony’s supply chain expertise for being able to make more consoles than the competition despite launching a week later. In the same vein, it’s only right to give MS props for their strategy to launch with a lower cost alternative that’s allowed for significant stock availability for the holiday shopping period.

I stuck to the Black Friday console comparison topic because that's what the topic is about.

DForce
1. The article is about US retailers.
2. This is only during black friday
3. There's enough evidence to suggest that the XSS was in-stock more than the PS5 during this period.

This is another, "It doesn't matter what the article says" comment.

Banjo64
And you have the cheek to cry about therapy sessions in the last of us 2 threads If the Series S has sold the most, that is the only fact. Any why, ifs, buts and maybes are all speculation. It makes me laugh that you don’t even know what a fact is.

I was then being accused of lying and making up facts. I cited my sources and my information was never disputed by anyone.

bushwookie
Came into this thread a few mins ago only to see you making up whatever facts your imagination can conjure up. After going back and forth with you earlier in another thread, can't say I'm really surprised.

What does surprise me though. Is that despite probably half the forum telling you that you're wrong, and disingenuous at this point. That the mere thought that you could, in any way be wrong... hasn't so much as crossed your mind. Your complete lack of self awareness, along with your complete faith in that you know more about everything, than everybody. Is incredibly impressive. It's not something one sees often.

I kept it short and simple. I shared links and information and asked him to dispute it. He never returned.
DForce
Making up facts?
Dispute this then.

Max replied to his comment and said it's fanboyism, even though I made it perfectly clear that I'm giving reasons why the XSS also sold out another Xbox console. It was never about Xbox versus PlayStation.

Max Payne’s Baretta

Facts, people like him make this an overall worse place than it has to be. Just deeply trenched in fanboyism and worse, idiocy.

I replied and said the information is in the article

DForce
The article says the XSS was readily available while PS5 and XSX was hard to find.

That's a stock issue. Period. You can't accept facts because you want to believe a different narrative.

He never once discussed the context of the article. It's evident that he wanted to ignore it.

Max Payne’s Baretta
Damn … another stuck with their head up their ass. To the Ignoro you go son!


DForce
As expected, you'd rather ignore what's in the article and go with a false narrative.


Max Payne’s Baretta
Nah just don’t care to waste my time debating low quality posts like yours.

DForce
Then you think the article is low quality. You can't dispute that claim because that's what the article is literally saying.

All you guys have done is throw insults. Neither one of you guys even bothered to comment on the article. That means you would rather head a false narrative from your buddies instead of facts. Don't complain when I'm only telling you what the article is saying.

Instead of posting my entire conversation with Kingfey, I will only quote the most important parts.

kingfey
You are the one who is desperate here. Bringing this stock issues.

If something is available, people will buy it. Its that simple. If ps5 was available, people will buy it. If xsx was more available than xss, people will buy it. It wont change anything, if people spent their money.

DForce
Are journalists being desperate by mentioning stock issues?

kingfey
no, its you guys. who cant accept that people are buying this little console, and desperate to hold in to this console stock issues. We are in 12th page, and we are still having this conversation.


The Xbox Series S is selling and it's one of the most popular items during Black Friday. No one ever disputed that.

He did not want to acknowledge what was in the article. I asked him directly if the article says the other consoles are out of stock after accusing me of being desperate by saying it's a stock issue.

DForce
Does the article say that the other consoles have stock issues or not?

He admitted "even with stock issues


kingfey
What does that have to do with people buying the console?
Even with stock issues, people are continuing to buy the xss. People wont be buying the xss, if they wanted those consoles which has the stock issues. They would have waited for those stock to be replenished and not buy the xss.



Conclusion

I stuck to the subject, I mentioned what was in the article and I backed up information from NowInStock to prove my point.

The people who replied to me did not discuss the part of the article where it mentions that it was a stock issue. If people can "clearly read it" as you claim, then there wouldn't be a huge effort to ignore what was written inside of the article.

The replies were are filled with false accusations that I was saying the XSS wouldn't sell if the other consoles were in stock. Yes, people can clearly read what was in the article, but they want to pretend it doesn't exist.
 

Dr Bass

Member
You would have been right, if the xss wasn't 300$.

Most parents won't drop 500$ on a system, when there is another one at 300$.

People aren't like you, who thinks 500$ is easy money.
Do you see what kinds of numbers $1k cell phones that people use for a year or two sell at?

None of the numbers support a lot of the things being said in this thread.
 
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