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Digital Foundry: Unreal Engine 5 Console Health Check: Every Major UE5 Game Tested on PS5 & Xbox Series X/S
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
The story is, I want to see it more!
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
- "Key takeaway is that the core feature-set basically works"
- Lumen works well if set up 'correctly'. Nanite simplifies asset production and such
- Uplift in visual quality noticeable relative to UE4 when applied correctly.
- Fort Solis:
- Real time bounce lighting is praised, but also noted lots of breakup.
- In Performance mode, breakup and shimmer become a much bigger problem.
- PC version looks much better with hardware RT, too expensive for PS5.
- Talos Principal 2:
- Fine shadows thanks to UE5 shadow map, also no LoD pop-in
- Doesn't have Lumen reflections on consoles, only on PC.
- GI looks terrific but foliage is badly over-darkened. Lighting on console also breaks up notably.
- Immortals of Aveum:
- Same as above, overly-darkening issues in lighting. With less fine geometry results are excellent.
- Results are mostly decent, but indirectly lit areas look crude
- PC can overcome with higher settings.
- Robocop
- Best adjusted recent UE5 console game.
- Superb lighting, Lumen issues minimum. Lumen reflections present as well.
- Jusant
- Uses low detail textures (artistically), software lumen works well with stylized art
- Virtual shadow maps also work great with pin sharp sahdows
- Matrix Awakens:
- Indirect lumen lighting still looks great. Mostly resolved without noise
- Reflection quality is also great. But visual quality is only half the story.
- General Performance:
- Robocop throws some drops but otherwise no issues.
- Jusant only has occasional one-off traversal drops but otherwise maintains 60 FPS
- Immortals of Aveum is usually sub 60.
- Lords of Fallen suffers from profound stutter issues
- Most console drops seem to be GPU related
- Immortals of Aveum runs a lot better on Series S than Series X, as it runs a much lower resolution
- Robocop can drop down pretty hard during some battles in Performance mode too
- DF thinks developers should start setting more conservative resolution targets
- Achieving 60 FPS on consoles is entirely possible.
- Series S specific optimizations:
- Few options at developers disposal to compensate for weaker hardware
- Talos Principal eliminates Lumen lighting, developers built non-lumen pipeline just for Series S.
- Robocop cuts Lumen reflections as well producing less accurate results, Lumen GI is still retained and is the more important of the two techniques.
- Jusant retains all features but lowers quality of Lumen features,
- Matrix Awakens also retains all the key UE5 features at lower fidelity and resolution.
- DF thinks so far UE5 games have scaled really well to Series S with sensible cuts
- Talos Principal is the biggest exception with the lack of Lumen GI.
- Performance wise it's mostly similar to PS5/SX.
- Jusant runs similar, Talos runs works, Immortals runs better (though the trade-off is great)
- Robocop only has the one 30 FPS mode. Frequent dips but retains decent resolution.
- DF not seeing a huge cause for concern for Performance, but outcome is mixed for visuals.
UE5 Upsampling:
- Most devs use FSR2 or TSR. Both supported by UE5. Both are great in stills.
- TSR is a lot cleaner when in motion. FSR2 is noisy when panning camera
- TSR also slightly outperforms FSR2 (very slight)
- Lumen works well if set up 'correctly'. Nanite simplifies asset production and such
- Uplift in visual quality noticeable relative to UE4 when applied correctly.
- Fort Solis:
- Real time bounce lighting is praised, but also noted lots of breakup.
- In Performance mode, breakup and shimmer become a much bigger problem.
- PC version looks much better with hardware RT, too expensive for PS5.
- Talos Principal 2:
- Fine shadows thanks to UE5 shadow map, also no LoD pop-in
- Doesn't have Lumen reflections on consoles, only on PC.
- GI looks terrific but foliage is badly over-darkened. Lighting on console also breaks up notably.
- Immortals of Aveum:
- Same as above, overly-darkening issues in lighting. With less fine geometry results are excellent.
- Results are mostly decent, but indirectly lit areas look crude
- PC can overcome with higher settings.
- Robocop
- Best adjusted recent UE5 console game.
- Superb lighting, Lumen issues minimum. Lumen reflections present as well.
- Jusant
- Uses low detail textures (artistically), software lumen works well with stylized art
- Virtual shadow maps also work great with pin sharp sahdows
- Matrix Awakens:
- Indirect lumen lighting still looks great. Mostly resolved without noise
- Reflection quality is also great. But visual quality is only half the story.
- General Performance:
- Robocop throws some drops but otherwise no issues.
- Jusant only has occasional one-off traversal drops but otherwise maintains 60 FPS
- Immortals of Aveum is usually sub 60.
- Lords of Fallen suffers from profound stutter issues
- Most console drops seem to be GPU related
- Immortals of Aveum runs a lot better on Series S than Series X, as it runs a much lower resolution
- Robocop can drop down pretty hard during some battles in Performance mode too
- DF thinks developers should start setting more conservative resolution targets
- Achieving 60 FPS on consoles is entirely possible.
- Series S specific optimizations:
- Few options at developers disposal to compensate for weaker hardware
- Talos Principal eliminates Lumen lighting, developers built non-lumen pipeline just for Series S.
- Robocop cuts Lumen reflections as well producing less accurate results, Lumen GI is still retained and is the more important of the two techniques.
- Jusant retains all features but lowers quality of Lumen features,
- Matrix Awakens also retains all the key UE5 features at lower fidelity and resolution.
- DF thinks so far UE5 games have scaled really well to Series S with sensible cuts
- Talos Principal is the biggest exception with the lack of Lumen GI.
- Performance wise it's mostly similar to PS5/SX.
- Jusant runs similar, Talos runs works, Immortals runs better (though the trade-off is great)
- Robocop only has the one 30 FPS mode. Frequent dips but retains decent resolution.
- DF not seeing a huge cause for concern for Performance, but outcome is mixed for visuals.
UE5 Upsampling:
- Most devs use FSR2 or TSR. Both supported by UE5. Both are great in stills.
- TSR is a lot cleaner when in motion. FSR2 is noisy when panning camera
- TSR also slightly outperforms FSR2 (very slight)
FalconPunch
Member
Is there a reason why DF uses the Xbox Series Footage for 95% of the video? Seems weird as it makes the video come across as an Xbox video not a console video.....
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Zathalus
Member
My takeaway is that it looks great with TSR and at 30FPS. That give the consoles more then enough resolution for TSR to output a detailed image. Lumen can also be pushed a bit further and the consoles have no issues with software Lumen, virtual shadow maps, and Nanite combined.
The problem is 60 fps, the consoles are simply not powerful enough to offer a good enough resolution and keep a stable 60.
Maybe with 5.4 and newer releases that are bringing performance optimizations the frame rate can be more stable, but that likely means the 30FPS mode can use hardware Lumen.
It seems likely that in order to get the full combo of hardware Lumen (with reflections), virtual shadow maps, Nanite, higher base resolution + TSR, and a solid 60FPS mode would likely require a pro console.
The problem is 60 fps, the consoles are simply not powerful enough to offer a good enough resolution and keep a stable 60.
Maybe with 5.4 and newer releases that are bringing performance optimizations the frame rate can be more stable, but that likely means the 30FPS mode can use hardware Lumen.
It seems likely that in order to get the full combo of hardware Lumen (with reflections), virtual shadow maps, Nanite, higher base resolution + TSR, and a solid 60FPS mode would likely require a pro console.
Monokrom
Member
Yeah, I noticed that too. A bit weird to exclude the PS5.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This video is reminding me that I have Jusant downloaded on game pass but still need to try it out.
Too many games just came out in the same couple of weeks window ..
Too many games just came out in the same couple of weeks window ..
CamHostage
Member
Because there are two Xbox variants, and there is more to talk about and learn about the UE5 console situation (on every platform) given the differences.
PS5 looks to be shown in every segment as far as how it measures on the meter with each game, but eventually it shifts into the Xbox scenario. If it were possible to get a developer on record to talk more about how Primitive Shaders and Mesh Shaders work out in use between the competing consoles (and boil it down to something us regs could understand,) and if there was visual evidence in the running games (besides small performance differences which may be attributable to any number of factors,) then maybe that would be interesting to dig into and show PS5 more often against Xbox footage (likely in the negative, if Xbox's "Full AMD RDNA 2 Architecture" really did end up making a difference,) but so far, there's not much story to tell outside of professional development circles.
...I think people can relax about DF being some trojan horse for promoting one console over the other. The conclusions are always that there are miniscule and often flip-flopping differences between X and PS, if any. I guess someone out there could be more susceptible to seeing an X logo more often than a 5, but DF does way more swaying when it praises big exclusives like Spider-Man 2 or Forza.
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Hugare
Member
Boggles my mind
Everytime I see a console game using FSR 2 I'm disgusted
It's so, so bad. Every other upscale technique looks better.
intbal
Member
Because the focus is on the engine features.
I'm sure Oliver didn't want to have to record footage from three consoles and spend time editing it all together.
He could have chosen just the Series S and PS5 and the point of the video would have remained the same.
Played all of them (or at least tried them all).
Yes, the lighting is great.
Yes, I feel it's overhyped (from a consumer standpoint) at least at this point.
A new engine and tools should unlock something consumers haven't played previous generations, but -apart from a visual fidelity bump- it still has static environments, still stock standard animations, stock standard NPC behaviors.
I'm aware this is not a 'engine specific thing', but it annoys me that these days 'new engine' only means 'visual bump', while back in the day (the 90's/00's) games built on a 'new engine' meant interesting new interactive elements like higher fidelity physics, or new non-scripted dynamic AI.
Yes, the lighting is great.
Yes, I feel it's overhyped (from a consumer standpoint) at least at this point.
A new engine and tools should unlock something consumers haven't played previous generations, but -apart from a visual fidelity bump- it still has static environments, still stock standard animations, stock standard NPC behaviors.
I'm aware this is not a 'engine specific thing', but it annoys me that these days 'new engine' only means 'visual bump', while back in the day (the 90's/00's) games built on a 'new engine' meant interesting new interactive elements like higher fidelity physics, or new non-scripted dynamic AI.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Started some Jusant, looks clean and runs smooth as butter. If there are one-off traversal drops, I can't notice them during general run.
Lysandros
Member
PS5 versions have pretty limited screen time compared to Series in general in DF analysis videos, nothing new in essence (to be fair this one is a bit more extreme). The exception being Alex' PS5 to high end PC comparisons which emphasize the lower quality on console.
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Krappadizzle
Member
Overall, it's been underwhelming, but that was the same way with UE4. The reality is that it just takes a lot of time and effort to get the new tools and development pipelines going and running efficiently before we start seeing actual end-user benefits. The actual gulf in visual quality between early UE5 games and later-gen UE4 games isn't that huge, and it's only now starting to pick up and show it's apparent benefits.
But at the end of the day, most gamers just don't care if a game looks marginally better if they aren't offering fun gameplay or something dazzling to look at, which is why art direction and tech need to work in syncopation. Arkham Knight being an UE 3.5ish game still looks better than a significant amount of titles across UE4 and UE5.
I look forward to more UE5 games actually offering beneficial upgrades releasing in the next 1.5 years or so as it's not really been the case these last few years.
Name checks out.
I was hopeful we were gonna go in the direction of phyiscs based interactions/ dynamic A.I. once HL2 hit. Such a bummer.
I really hope after UE8 and the PS9 finally drop we can finally get away from just the spectacle of the visuals and start focusing on the simulation of the world and a.i.
But at the end of the day, most gamers just don't care if a game looks marginally better if they aren't offering fun gameplay or something dazzling to look at, which is why art direction and tech need to work in syncopation. Arkham Knight being an UE 3.5ish game still looks better than a significant amount of titles across UE4 and UE5.
I look forward to more UE5 games actually offering beneficial upgrades releasing in the next 1.5 years or so as it's not really been the case these last few years.
Name checks out.
I was hopeful we were gonna go in the direction of phyiscs based interactions/ dynamic A.I. once HL2 hit. Such a bummer.
I really hope after UE8 and the PS9 finally drop we can finally get away from just the spectacle of the visuals and start focusing on the simulation of the world and a.i.
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Zathalus
Member
As far as I can see checking games over the past 2 years Jedi Survivor, RE4, Dead Space, Modern Warfare 2 were all PS5 exclusive console videos. With PC/XSX comparisons coming later. Xbox had Mortal Kombat 1. For videos that cover both consoles what do you think is going to get the most coverage, the console with one or two SKUs?
Alex's videos sometimes showed the PC version as being worse then the PS5 version such as in the case of Jedi Survivor. He also uses PS5 as a comparison as there are like 4x more PS5s sold compared to XSX (not including S). Why on earth would you use the less popular console?
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Insane Metal
Member
It's pretty obvious.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I don't buy this for one second.
SEGAvangelist
Member
You should watch more DF videos and make some charts.
its the con job of the gen.
especially with the ridiculously low resolutions devs dip to. reminds me of ps3 games
dude's playstation allergy is pretty obvious at this point, he is literally having physcial reactions whenever ps5pro is mentioned on a "tech" channel.
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FoxMcChief
Gold Member
You’re thinking way too hard on this one.
Zathalus
Member
He does not like consoles, I just don't think he hates PS5 significantly more then XSX right now. At least not since PS5 exclusives have started being ported. He really wants to prove PC superiority over consoles and frankly the PS5 is the bigger target for him (4x the sales as I mentioned). If XSX started the Xbox first or Xbox only mentality I'm pretty sure that would draw his ire as well
Oh I don't doubt his disdain for the PS5, but I think that applies to all consoles really. The only reason he doesn't really focus on XSX is because all the games come to PC so why bother?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why are they so anti-Pro console this generation?
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
The Robocop developers knew what they were doing.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I don't agree with this. His post history as Dictator on here and abroad long before he started working for them begs to differ.
Tarnpanzer
Member
Game just looks incredible during cloudy/rainy weather.
Zathalus
Member
That's why I said right now. He is extremely enthusiastic about PS5 PC ports. I think the fact he couldn't play the amazing PS games on PC led to sour grapes. XSX is literally a non factor to him, because all the games are on PC day one so there is nothing for him to be salty about.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Richard was so bitter that PlayStation only sent them the Portal way later than other outlets that I wouldn’t be surprised if they started leaning even harder on Xbox for good vibes and put PS5 head and center when they want to show you something less favorable.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He was never salty about them in the past when they never ported some of their games to the PC (MS) let alone day 1. He would still go hard in the paint dissing every Sony first party game (graphically) comparing it to the "amazing graphics and lighting accuracy" in Star Citizen (would compare it to HZD PS4 on Gaf constantly saying how much better the non-game's lighting was), which he conveniently forgot existed when it's perfectly ripe for Starfield comparisons.
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I'm pretty sure that Robocop is running worse now after a patch that dropped 2 days ago (ps5). Up until then i was getting a locked 30 fps, now it feels like slow motion. I'm in the Quarry area.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I can't stand watching DF these days. Them lobbying against the Pro consoles was the final straw.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Avowed better be using Lumen and Nanite. I would expect Obsidian with Microsoft's money to produce a better looking and better running game than Robocop.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
TSR is INFINITELY BETTER than FSR2! Play Remnant 2 and then compare to any recent game using FSR. Despite Remnant 2's lower base resolution it looks clean. Solid, less noise, less aliasing, sharper.
Shame on devs using fsr2 using low base resolutions. It's literally THEIR JOB to know what works better and what doesn't.
As usual your doing God's Work.
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DF were evaluating performance on PC not consoles.
That reminds me of the Windows Experience Index [introduced with Windows Vista]. I was always so sad that games didn't end up using it because I thought it was a really good idea. Your blog mentions using FSR 2 on console, what made you choose FSR 2 versus TSR?
Mark Maratea: Performance. We're using FSR 2.2.1, we are [on the] bleeding edge [version] from AMD. It has substantially better performance on the upscale and TSR's upscaling has significantly more ghosting than DLSS or FSR does. We're constantly talking with AMD and Intel and Nvidia about how to minimise problems, and each of their individual GPUs they have their compatibility labs running all of this, and we spent a lot of effort working with them. It's a little bit harder to have Epic release an engine change to [fix TSR problems].
Inside Immortals of Aveum: the Digital Foundry tech interview
Ahead of the launch of Immortals of Aveum, Alex Battaglia and Tom Morgan spoke with Ascendent Studios' Mark Maratea, Julia Lichtblau and Joe Hall about the game
www.eurogamer.net