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[MrMysterio]

OP is informing people that apparently the game was built with GG ideology in mind, so that people, who do not want to support these kind of things financially can, you know, not buy the game, if they don't want to.

People are entitled to do that.

Then the backlash of pretend ignorance, wonky comparisons, gaslighting, and sealioning brought us to this very page.

So, your bait-y questions and pretend "I'm the neutral, rational participant in this discussion" is very very tired at best (re: "Does this only apply to good political opinions?")

Also saying this:
"my opinions aren't so fragile that I can't be exposed to others' views", is an unhelpful, thinly masked insult to people who actually want to talk about this.

 

[Flintty]

He's not wrong, and you've yet to respond properly without insults or pretending that the discussion is over.

Like I alluded to before. I'm not going to be influenced by NeoGAF and nor do I need to justify my actions/opinions to you all. I'm going to give the game a chance because I like the look of it and I try to keep gaming and politics separate. If the game does turn out to be something I fundamentally disagree with either politically or personally then that's another matter and one for me to deal with personally.

When I said I was done here I was bowing out saying I respect people's personal opinion of the game and issues surrounding it but they also need to respect that I have mine. Sadly, that's not a two way street here. You have to comply or be dogpiled and have to explain yourself. This is a gaming forum for fucks sake, not a court.

 

[Joey Ravn]

Sounds fair enough.
I assume this is what would happen in any case a game pushes a narrative the player doesn't agree with.


Racism is a political opinion.
The KKK is legal in the USA.
Which is the reason for the question.
Basically something like freedom of speech in video games.

Freedom of speech protects individuals from government censorship. NeoGAF is a private entity that can allow or ban any kind of discussion for whatever reason they see fit.

Also, the fact that your go-to analogy for defending the inclusion of Gamergate agenda in this game is the KKK is kinda telling...

 

[Volphied]

Not my type of game. Random question: Why are you obsessed with me?

Maybe it's interesting for some to see how far you'll go pretending to be a neutral while completely ignoring all the posts pointing out the alt-right frog in your avatar?

 

[CookTrain]

sealioning

I hadn't heard that term before, so I had to look it up. What a superb term

 

[Costia]

Freedom of speech protects individuals from government censorship. NeoGAF is a private entity that can allow or ban any kind of discussion for whatever reason they see fit.
Also, the fact that your go-to analogy for defending the inclusion of Gamergate agenda in this game is the KKK is kinda telling...

The point was actually to refer to MS and not GAF. i.e. should MS ban this game?
please enlighten me. telling of what?

 

[cntr]

It's pretty obvious that all these new people are Gamergate assholes trying to brush it off.

 

[MrMysterio]

I hadn't heard that term before, so I had to look it up. What a superb term

Yeah! Volphied introduced me to it in this very thread

 

[Sotha Sil]

I try to keep gaming and politics separate

It's literally impossible tho

 

[wildfire]

Like I alluded to before. I'm not going to be influenced by NeoGAF and nor do I need to justify my actions/opinions to you all. I'm going to give the game a chance because I like the look of it and I try to keep gaming and politics separate. If the game does turn out to be something I fundamentally disagree with either politically or personally then that's another matter and one for me to deal with personally.

When I said I was done here I was bowing out saying I respect people's personal opinion of the game and issues surrounding it but they also need to respect that I have mine. Sadly, that's not a two way street here. You have to comply or be dogpiled and have to explain yourself. This is a gaming forum for fucks sake, not a court.

The court of public opinion follows us every where we go.

 

[Joey Ravn]

The point was actually to refer to MS and not GAF. i.e. should MS ban this game?
please enlighten me. telling of what?

You asked if this game should have a place for discussion on GAF. You never mentioned Microsoft.

If I wanted to defend something I perceive as freedom of speech against what I perceive as an unfair aggression against it, I wouldn't use as an analogy a group known for, and openly admitting of, racism and murder. But that's just me.

 

[Two Words]

85% of Americans believe in gender quality, while 18% identify as feminists.

http://thelala.com/believe-womens-equality-identify-as-feminist/

A full 65% of Americans don't see the two concepts as one and the same. So it is a complex middle ground issue, unfortunately.

People often "believe" in things but don't actually act in a manner that agrees with those beliefs.

 

[jviggy43]

So fucking childish.

Yes, the argument you made was indeed rather insipid, so childish is a rather apt description.

 

[Just someone. Somewhere]

Maybe it's interesting for some to see how far you'll go pretending to be a neutral while completely ignoring all the posts pointing out the alt-right frog in your avatar?

Alt right frog?! Wtf are you talking about. It's a pic of sad frog combined with dark souls.

 

[Costia]

You asked if this game should have a place for discussion on GAF. You never mentioned Microsoft.

No I didn't.
I asked about curation of political opinion in video games.
I didn't mention them, but i did have MS in mind, since in this specific case its their platform.

If I wanted to defend something I perceive as freedom of speech against what I perceive as an unfair aggression against it, I wouldn't use as an analogy a group known for, and openly admitting of, racism and murder. But that's just me.

Makes you wonder doesn't it? Maybe its because I wasn't defending them?

 

[MazeHaze]

Alt right frog?! Wtf are you talking about. It's a pic of sad frog combined with dark souls.

Oh come on now. This is just getting silly.

 

[jviggy43]

Like I alluded to before. I'm not going to be influenced by NeoGAF and nor do I need to justify my actions/opinions to you all. I'm going to give the game a chance because I like the look of it and I try to keep gaming and politics separate. If the game does turn out to be something I fundamentally disagree with either politically or personally then that's another matter and one for me to deal with personally.

When I said I was done here I was bowing out saying I respect people's personal opinion of the game and issues surrounding it but they also need to respect that I have mine. Sadly, that's not a two way street here. You have to comply or be dogpiled and have to explain yourself. This is a gaming forum for fucks sake, not a court.

So....as of now the game being about anti women and supporting a hate group hasn't yet fundamentally gone against your political or personal beliefs. Got it

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Alt right frog?! Wtf are you talking about. It's a pic of sad frog combined with dark souls.

Uh-huh. Are you really pretending to not know about the "sad frog" symbol now?

 

[Volphied]

Oh come on now. This is just getting silly.

He knows what it means, otherwise he wouldn't avoid discussing it for so many posts.

He's trolling at this point.

 

[Just someone. Somewhere]

Oh come on now. This is just getting silly.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/feels-bad-man-sad-frog

Anyway why are we discussing my avatar? What has that to do with anything.

 

[MazeHaze]

So....as of now the game being about anti women and supporting a hate group hasn't yet fundamentally gone against your political or personal beliefs. Got it

Don't forget he already has firmly stated that he won't let anyone on neogaf convince him that these things are bad.


Look guys, if you want to play the game, do it, nobody cares. When you come into this thread and brag about it though, it's really transparent and easy to make educated guesses about the type of person you are.

 

[Famassu]

Stop Advertising/Pull funding/Support etc.

Till we know how or even if the devs views make it into the game, all I see is judging a book by its cover by a lot of posters here.

I sincerely doubt MS would support the game if it pushes for online harassment/misogyny etc.

Would you be comfortable supporting developers who tweet/retweet KKK propaganda if they made a game with a cool, unique art style and a dystopia with a "what if black people got in power" setting?

Because that's what you'll be doing if you buy this game. GG is no different than KKK. At least 2 of the 6 developers support the extremely hateful & harmful ideals & methodologies of GG (and the 4 others at least turn their heads away if they don't also support GG, which isn't much better).

 

[nynt9]

There's an active thread about this thread on voat right now so it's unsurprising that we're getting bombarded by people from there.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/feels-bad-man-sad-frog

I know you're being disingenuous, but you can't even do it right:

Feels Bad Man / Sad Frog
Part of a series on Pepe the Frog.

And that page refers in great detail to the alt right ties of the meme.

 

[jviggy43]

It says alot about your belief system when you have to feign ignorance when called out for it. You know what the pepe meme is

 

[MazeHaze]

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/feels-bad-man-sad-frog

Anyway why are we discussing my avatar? What has that to do with anything.

This isn't even good trolling. It's sad to watch.

 

[Two Words]

"Guys, maybe they're just really looking forward to a new Punisher movie?"

 

[Volphied]

There's an active thread about this thread on voat right now so it's unsurprising that we're getting bombarded by people from there.

Figures why we're getting literal frog meme trolls right now.

 

[Just someone. Somewhere]

This isn't even good trolling. It's sad to watch.

Well whatever. I am not gonna entertain you guys anymore. Nice to see that you all turn on me for stating i am looking forward to this game. Amazing, really.

 

[Muffin1611]

Racism is a political opinion.
The KKK is legal in the USA.
Which is the reason for the question.
Basically something like freedom of speech in video games.

Um, sorry that I don't see the legal definition of the US as the absolute one. To be honest, I don't know how anyone could.

This discussion is completely a moral one. No, racism isn't a political opinion, full stop.

 

[jviggy43]

Well whatever. I am not gonna entertain you guys anymore. Nice to see that you all turn on me for stating i am looking forward to this game. Amazing, really.

Yes yes, play the victim card after being challenged about your posts and failing to rationally defend them. Poor you. Were so mean.

 

[Ekai]

There's an active thread about this thread on voat right now so it's unsurprising that we're getting bombarded by people from there.



I know you're being disingenuous, but you can't even do it right:



And that page refers in great detail to the alt right ties of the meme.

I assume they're trying to downplay how screwed up GG was. And there's probably some random comments about hiveminds and some comments that embrace disparaging women/transwomen/other minorities and how we need to not take part in gaming/the games industry because we pollute their hobby by merely existing and other far-right/alt-right bullshit.

 

[T.O.P]

Yoko Taro confirmed a neo nazi

 

[Angelus Errare]

Looks nice graphically but fuck this game and it's creator. Hope it flops financially but sadly I know it won't because the premise appeals to many gamers who hate women.

 

[MazeHaze]

Well whatever. I am not gonna entertain you guys anymore. Nice to see that you all turn on me for stating i am looking forward to this game. Amazing, really.

Nah, we turned on you because you're obviously trolling. In a thread about a game inspired by GG with a fucking pepe avatar.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Ok, watching the trailer again, they first show Paris all fucked up with the Eiffel Tower destroyed and the city burning, I'm guessing you will visit the city at some point and learn what happened.

then the city where I assume the game takes place is some platform floating in a contaminated ocean and there seems to be patrols going around some I'm guessing there are people out there not allowed in the city.

Then after the shot where not so subtlety the protagonist is shown walking one way and everyone else the other there is a store advertising "No suffering" so what's with that.

Then shooting and I'm thinking the protagonist becomes a wanted man.

If I were to guess you join some group of people that like you can't enjoy the benefits of the technology of the city and end up doing some kind of insurrection that doesn't go as planned or you are betrayed and then the bulk of the game happens.

 

[Ekai]

Looks nice graphically but fuck this game and it's creator. Hope it flops financially but sadly I know it won't because the premise appeals to many gamers who hate women.

Conservative counter culture will coalesce around the game to make a statement. Even though it's apparently a narrative game with little gameplay and they say they hate those kinds of things.

 

[8byte]

Well whatever. I am not gonna entertain you guys anymore. Nice to see that you all turn on me for stating i am looking forward to this game. Amazing, really.

From another thread:

What exactly would change if the MC was female?! There are other games for you to enjoy with a "strong" female lead. Some people are never satisfied.. Jesus..

Definitely an undercover shit poster / GG ally.

No one will be sad to see you leave the thread. Be "strong"...you'll make it.

 

[afternoon delight]

Back in my day neanderthals at least had the decency to call out girls specifically instead of hiding behind multiple syllable terms, imagining themselves as learned ideological warriors.

I reflected on this when pondering growing up in the era of "girl power" really being accepted and emphasized- there was less of an outcry from these types- is it because they realized how ludicrous it sounds to attack a gender? Like, if you're walking around spouting "women are ruining men's ability to be men" I'm pretty sure even your mother would politely inform you to shut the fuck up. "Women are stealing what's rightfully men's! They're twisting and changing power structures in their favor! We're losing the war against girls!"

Now of course they rail against the invisible matriarchy that progenitors enable since birth yada yada yada yada what a bunch of fucking bullshit. Man. It makes me heated. I guess the internet just gives a louder voice to all the people laughed at in public.

 

[MazeHaze]

Conservative counter culture will coalesce around the game to make a statement. Even though it's apparently a narrative game with little gameplay and they say they hate those kinds of things.

They also are very vocal about keeping politics out of games. Hmmmmmm, I wonder, what is it about this game that makes politics in videogames a good thing....I just can't put my finger on it.

 

[giapel]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/culture/story/20170517-can-you-separate-the-artist-from-the-art

Fuel for discussion.
I can see merit in separating art from the artist. But in this case we're talking about a product as well that will make money. And I don't really want to see him making money out of this.

 

[moeman]

Yeah...fuck this game. Doesn't even look very good. Why are there people who are willing to defend this kind of game and literally play through a Gamergate dream scenario?

The only reason you'd be willing to play this is if you to some extent agree with the ideals presented by the game. This isn't some "No Russian" bullshit that's merely there to stir up controversy for the sake of it. This is the actual belief of the developer which will be ingrained throughout the narrative.

 

[Ekai]

From another thread:



Definitely an undercover shit poster / GG ally.

No one will be sad to see you leave the thread. Be "strong"...you'll make it.

These women and desiring to be represented in the games they play more often, how dare they! /s

They're so close to just blurting out: "Let me enjoy my game, you femi-nazis!"
As though we're the ones trying to viciously stop people from playing games/working in the games industry. The projection is amazing.

 

[Costia]

Um, sorry that I don't see the legal definition of the US as the absolute one. To be honest, I don't know how anyone could.
This discussion is completely a moral one. No, racism isn't a political opinion, full stop.

So you are saying what you find moral or immoral is not a political opinion?
So if a republican finds abortion immoral its not political. Its immoral. full stop. end of discussion?
I guess you can end an argument like that. but its kinda boring :/

Anyway, my original question is, should it be allowed? (Should MS ban it? ban other games the CEO might not find moral or have a bad political opinion?)

 

[jviggy43]

From another thread:



Definitely an undercover shit poster / GG ally.

No one will be sad to see you leave the thread. Be "strong"...you'll make it.

Again, says alot when the person making these arguments has to pretend to not understand the symbol that represents their prescribed ideology. If you were in the right, you wouldn't have to put on this charade in the first place and you'd just come out and say what's really on your mind but alas, it is entertaining to watch them squirm around and trying to continue acting naive.

 

[Just someone. Somewhere]

Nah, we turned on you because you're obviously trolling. In a thread about a game inspired by GG with a fucking pepe avatar.

WTF?! How am i trolling?! I didn't even state something controversial.

 

[nynt9]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/culture/story/20170517-can-you-separate-the-artist-from-the-art

Fuel for discussion.
I can see merit in separating art from the artist. But in this case we're talking about a product as well that will make money. And I don't really want to see him making money out of this.

Doesn't apply here, the ideology of the artist is a central part of the art.

 

[jviggy43]

WTF?! How am i trolling?! I didn't even state something controversial.

Yes dance! Dance!

 

[Holundrian]

So you are saying what you find moral or immoral is not a political opinion?
So if a republican finds abortion immoral its not political. Its immoral. full stop. end of discussion?
I guess you can end an argument like that. but its kinda boring :/

No if a republican finds abortion immoral it is not political. He makes it political by making it an issue that he wants the government to intervene in with laws/regulations.
At face value it is very much a moral issue and should be discussed as such given that I don't think most here would have influence on that level.
And no the discussion of course doesn't end there cause there isn't one unifying moral compass everyone abides by.
As is evident in this thread a lot of people have a very questionable moral compass if not to say a vile garbage one.
And because the discussion doesn't end the result is people getting called out for that.

I also am not sure why I'm explaining this despite a large amount of people just peddling massive ignorance/cycle rhetoric and every other bs tactic I've seen like 100 times now as always in these type of thread that I just don't believe there are so many stupid people and have to assume it's done maliciously to get people riled up.

 

[Ekai]

They also are very vocal about keeping politics out of games. Hmmmmmm, I wonder, what is it about this game that makes politics in videogames a good thing....I just can't put my finger on it.

I'm not sure....but if politics in games is a good thing now, I assume they'll have no qualms with Far Cry 5 using far-right wing cults as a part of it's villain line-up. To reference another newly announced game.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/culture/story/20170517-can-you-separate-the-artist-from-the-art

Fuel for discussion.
I can see merit in separating art from the artist. But in this case we're talking about a product as well that will make money. And I don't really want to see him making money out of this.

It's something worth discussing on some grounds but in this instance, the artists views ARE the game. So, I agree.

 

[MazeHaze]

So you are saying what you find moral or immoral is not a political opinion?
So if a republican finds abortion immoral its not political. Its immoral. full stop. end of discussion?
I guess you can end an argument like that. but its kinda boring :/

Come on man, youre being disingenuous. Abortion is an extremely complex issue.

Racism is immoral, full-stop. End of discussion.

Sexism is immoral, full stop. End of discussion.

Supporting a campaign of harassment against women in a male dominated industry is immoral, full stop. End of discussion.

Basing a game on the idea that feminism goes too far and will ruin the world is immoral, full stop. End of discussion.