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Nintendo Switch is the fastest selling home console to reach 100 million mark
- Thread starter KingGhidorah
- Start date
Majukun
Member
it was old back when it started,in the 90s, let alone now
yurinka
Member
If something you're the one embarassing yourself, instead of properly debating topics providing factual data or objective metrics to back your opinions or to counter other ones, you selfproclaim to be an expert of an area while showing you're totally wrong about a basic topic of that area and try to poorly use the argumentum ad verecundiam (argument from authority) fallacy even after getting the dictionary definition.
Honey Bunny
Member
Man it's nice to see a Nintendo console succeed again without a stupid gimmick. Really well done.
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yurinka
Member
Other than the mentioned Virtual Boy, I'd say the Game Boy Color. Many Nintendo fans count it inside the Game Boy sales, but even if it was BC like tons of other home consoles or portables, it had more powerful hardare, exclusive games at lasted for the period of a generation, in the same way that the normal game boy had before it.
Regarding to consider Switch a console, a portable or to compare to the other ones it's a weird topic because as you say it's a hybrid, it's both a portable and a home console:
Nintendo had a rare huge peak with Wii in home consoles and with DS in portables compared to all their other platfoms. Outside them had a declining trend in both markets, so I think they were very smart merging home consoles and portables into a single device. They would merge their userbase in both markets, they would merge their internal development of both areas in a single device and the 3rd party support they got in both areas in a single device. Which combined with Sony leaving the portable consoles and leaving Nintendo alone in portables resulted in a big success.
So maybe it's a big unfair to compare it to other home consoles because don't have that extra userbase & catalog from portables, and same goes when comparing it to other portables, because in addition to have the home console part unlike the other portable consoles this is the only one without competition, it's the only portable console (serious one with its own game, not counting here Chinese portables that barely have a few emulators) in the market.
We're starting to see hybrid PC handhelds, and pretty likely we'll soon see hybrid smartphone/tablets with gamepads from Apple and Google using iOS/Android games and attachable gamepads trying to compete for this new market. So today we're considering it as a portable console, as a home console or both but in the future maybe we won't consider it as a home console or as a portable console but instead we'll include on a different 3rd group: hybrid gaming devices.
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SpongebobSquaredance
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think the Gameboy Color is fair. It was just there to extend the lifecycle of the Gameboy until the GBA and for that it did well enough, and even though it had exclusives, big titles like Pokemon Gold/Silver still were playable on the OG Gameboy.
The Gameboy Micro is probably worth a mention when it comes to failed Nintendo portables.
Marvel14
Banned
I provided you with a cogent explanation you can find in any econ textbook. What you screenshotted is a dictionary definition off the web which repeatedly mentions control and exclusivity - similar to the second part of the explanation I mentioned. Yet a dictionary does not explain how a monopoly functions.
Since my education is shite and your Internet searching is superior explain the following which would prove that the Switch is a handheld monopoly:
1. Why the price of the Switch and its games is comparable to other gaming devices. If Switch was a monopoly it should be able to charge higher prices and make higher profits. Why isn't it priced higher than a high end cellphone? As the exclusive handheld gaming device controlling the market it should be able to reap pricing benefits of the more expensive electronic devices.
2. Why Nintendo has released games on mobile. If Switch was a monopoly Nintendo would not put its IP on mobile hardware it doesn't control and give up its IP exclusivity.
3. Why the Switch is also connectable to a TV. If Switch was a monopoly it would avoid all direct competition with Xbox and PS and not compete on any level. It has surrendered exclusivity and market control with that stupid move.
4. Why the steam deck exists and why you think there will be more competitors in the future. A monopolist would reduce the price of its product and take other anticompetitive actions to drive new entrants out of the market. Where is the Switch's massive price drop since the Steam Deck was announced now that it is about to launch? Where are the other moves Nintendo would be making, like strong arming chip suppliers or electronics shipping firms not to work with Valve so that it can remain a handheld monopoly?
I love debate...please humour me and explain all of this. I love to learn. If you can't (and you won't be able to) then please move on.
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3DS was also the only handheld console on the market at the time (PSV was irrelevant, with mediocre sales in Japan and sales so bad abroad that in US it was soundly outsold by the Dreamcast) yet Switch is severely outperforming it.
Quick sales comparison between Nintendo 3DS and Nintendo Switch after 20 quarters on the market, divided by macro regions:
3DS
HW Japan: 20.97M
HW The Americas: 19.50M
HW Europe + Others: 17.47M
SW Japan: 102.73M
SW The Americas: 87.51M
SW Europe + Others: 74.29M
NSW
HW Japan: 24.36M
HW The Americas: 40.12M
HW Europe + Others: 39.07M
SW Japan: 143.20M
SW The Americas: 345.64M
SW Europe + Others: 277.57M
Nintendo has a lock (because Nintendo was the first to popularize it) on the hybrid console segment which is defined by incorporating all the form factors (TV console, handheld console, tabletop console).
At the current time it has to be seen if the PC handhelds could be a serious threat to Nintendo because there isn't any strong company behind them that could push the platform in a comparable way as Nintendo (this was the weak spot of the business model behind the 3DO), Nintendo relies on in-house software to drive the adoption of its own hardware and it has a distribution and price advantage.
Steam Deack will be a huge success if it sell a few million units, on the other hand Nintendo's hardware business size is on the scale of hundred of millions.
The best outcome for Valve would be if Steam Deck will somewhat trigger a sharp increase of the production of PC handhelds from strong external manufacturers and they'll adopt Steam and/or Steam OS as th default digital gaming store / OS.
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In Japan, during 2021, Nintendo had 82.7% of the (console) hardware marketshare and the Nintendo ecosystem had over 80% of the physical (console) software marketshare.
What I mean is that anybody who is playing console games in Japan (kids, young adults, adults and seniors) are mainly doing so through Nintendo.
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Deerock71
Member
Gameboy Micro.
yurinka
Member
3DS didn't have the Nintendo home console catalog and userbase, didn't enjoy the covid bump when they were producing on their peak year and had the Vita, whose sales were small but around a fith of the 3DS sales, which at least is something.
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Switch is outperforming 3DS+WiiU combined.
Well, let's compare 3DS and NSW first 13 quarters on the market, that is before the Covid-19 period for Switch (until March 2020).
Keep in mind that 3DS had a big price advantage both on hardware and software fronts compared to NSW (what it obviously didn't have was a perceived value advantage!)
Quick sales comparison between Nintendo 3DS and Nintendo Switch after 13 quarters on the market, divided by macro regions:
3DS
HW Japan: 15.89M
HW The Americas: 14.58M
HW Europe + Others: 12.85M
SW Japan: 61.24M
SW The Americas: 55.48M
SW Europe + Others: 46.20M
NSW
HW Japan: 13.44M
HW The Americas: 22.12M
HW Europe + Others: 20.20M
SW Japan: 67.20M
SW The Americas: 158.59M
SW Europe + Others: 130.46M
NSW was already performing significantly better than 3DS before Covid-19 in abroad markets whereas in Japan was a little behind in term of hardware sales but a little ahead in term of software sales (again keep in mind the difference in prices).
Do you really believe that 3DS disappointing sales in US were influenced by a console like PSV that sold less than Dreamcast in that territory?
It's like stating that WiiU negatively impacted the sales of Xbox One or PS4.
Both WiiU and PlayStation Vita were failures.
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Woopah
Member
Right, power only matters when it determines what games a console get and so software lineup is far far more important than power is. The DS did not get left behind due to being less powerful than its competitors. Nor did the 3DS, the Wii, the PS2 or the Gameboy. PS4 is actually one of the rare instances where the more powerful platform sold the most.
The Wii was a success due to the appealing software that Nintendo was able to deliver on the platform (some of which was helped by the Wiimote yes, but motion controls themselves would not have been enough if the games themselves weren't fun.) There may have been some families that shelved it after a year, but this was not the norm as the vast majority of owners bought a lot of software for it.
A hybrid from Sony of Microsoft cold have eaten into the Switch's sales, but only if it had the right lineup of games. Without the right line up these devices would not have impacted Switch in any meaningful way.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
You forgot fun to play.
Caio
Member
The Game Boy Micro was the last console in the Game boy line, it lacks BC for original Game Boy and Game Boy Color games.
The exception that confirms the rule. Nintendo is generaly the King in portable.
IFireflyl
Gold Member
I actually agree with you about the monopoly point, but I'd still like to take a shot at answering some of those questions (with my opinions, of course).
1. If it increased the price it would then be pitted against the portable PCs, and they would be limiting their userbase. With console prices they know a lot more people will buy it just at the lower price point.
2. Two completely different markets. Mobile phones are taken everywhere, including jobs. People on their phones don't raise eyebrows at work, but people on a Switch definitely would.
3. More functionality is better. Usually you want to play portable, but sometimes you want to bring people over and play 4-player split screen. You don't want to do that on a tiny Switch screen.
4. The Switch can't really drop it's price much and still profit the way it does. And in fairness, the user did say "portable console". The Steam Deck is a portable PC. Most exclusive games aren't PC games, so there's still an argument for the Switch over the Steam Deck when it comes to exclusive content (unless we count piracy... which maybe could happen).
Still agree with you on the monopoly thing, but I thought it would be fun to respond to these points. I might be wrong on some or all of them. Those are just my opinions.
BattleScar
Member
Wonderful concept for a product, so it's success doesn't surprise me.
I just wish it and it's software library wasn't so appallingly overpriced.
I just wish it and it's software library wasn't so appallingly overpriced.
yurinka
Member
3DS (~76M) + WiiU (~14M) + Vita (~15M) = 105M
Then to these ~105M remove some users like me who had various of these devices, and add some new users on top coming because the console market grows every generation and because of the now offerings, like ports of some AAA like Fortnite, or coming because wanted to buy a portable for the covid lockdowns. You have maybe around 120M-130M, which pretty like will have sold at the end of its life cycle.
No, PS Vita sold mostly on EU and Japan and targeted a different type of user: the fan of high end home console experiences on portables and portable versions of popular indies. Something that 3DS wasn't targeting, but that later Switch also pursued.
Partly yes, most console players prefered to buy other home consoles (PS3/PS4/360/XBO) than a WiiU. In the same way that most portable console players prefered to buy 3DS over Vita.
Which doesn't mean that the only reason was that there was other product more appealing in the market. Pretty likely Vita or WiiU weren't appealing enough by themselves for them.
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Bragr
Banned
There is nothing to spin here, the Switch is a hybrid, you can choose if you want to use it as a handheld console or a home console. The Switch Lite is a revision of that. Both are Switch consoles.
You said that the Switch doesn't have competition, but as you admit, there is crossover, which means it does compete in some areas.
Mikey Jr.
Member
The switch is a portable or a console.
Usually it morphs itself to fit any narrative.
Deerock71
Member
It has REALLY morphed since I have an OLED; used to be 60/40 docked vs. handheld, but since the OLED, it has seriously flipped to about 98/2 in favor of handheld.
Marvel14
Banned
I actually agree with you about the monopoly point, but I'd still like to take a shot at answering some of those questions (with my opinions, of course).
1. If it increased the price it would then be pitted against the portable PCs, and they would be limiting their userbase. With console prices they know a lot more people will buy it just at the lower price point.
2. Two completely different markets. Mobile phones are taken everywhere, including jobs. People on their phones don't raise eyebrows at work, but people on a Switch definitely would.
3. More functionality is better. Usually you want to play portable, but sometimes you want to bring people over and play 4-player split screen. You don't want to do that on a tiny Switch screen.
4. The Switch can't really drop it's price much and still profit the way it does. And in fairness, the user did say "portable console". The Steam Deck is a portable PC. Most exclusive games aren't PC games, so there's still an argument for the Switch over the Steam Deck when it comes to exclusive content (unless we count piracy... which maybe could happen).
Still agree with you on the monopoly thing, but I thought it would be fun to respond to these points. I might be wrong on some or all of them. Those are just my opinions.
Nice!.OK with the monopoly question out of the way. Here's my quickie economics response to your points.
1. "A lot more people will buy it at a lower price point" is evidence that the Switch operates in a competitive market. With monopolistic competition the producer produces less than is optimal in a competitive market because it can charge a higher price and lots of people will still buy it (to be technical the lack of substitutes makes the good demand inelastic - price increases don't reduce consumption enough to hit profits) . Monopolistic competition results in less produced at higher prices, with more inefficiency and fewer welfare gains to consumers. This is why folk worry when gaming companies start buying competitors and consolidating market dominance. We end up with a less competitive and innovative market.
2. You've described a functional difference between the devices but both can be used to play games and that's what matters when discussing markets. There is a degree of substitution between them, which makes them imperfect competitiors. Imperfect because a lot of the gaming experiences differ a lot between them but you can choose to play a mobile game or a switch game as consumption of comparable leisure products. Only if all the games and experiences where shared between them would they be perfect competitors (strictly speaking you would need to lose branding, unique form factors (switch would need to have mobile phone functions and phones would need to all have joycons) and other intellectual property would need to disappear to truly deliver perfect competition so that the experiences become completely indistinguishable).
3. Yes...firms in competitive markets seek USPs and differentiation to gain an edge. Nintendo is famous now for escaping direct competition with Microsoft and Sony by innovating in form factor and its exclusive experiences rather than match technical specs. Wii's blue ocean strategy was to expand the market rather than compete for the existing gaming market. Nowadays the ocean is very deep and competition is everywhere- its a much more complex market than even 10 years ago.
4. A monopolist would be able to drop the price and would take the profit hit because maintaining total market domination is more valuable- it would allow higher prices to return once the threat of competition has been eliminated and those prices can persist into the future. It's a case of short term pain for long term gain...
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THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
The DS didn't get left behind, if you know your gaming history, because it too had no viable portable competitor. Sony's overpriced half assed attempts don't really count (they never really put full software support behind them).
The Wii would have sold like 1/3 of what it sold if not for the motion controls gimmick, which lost it's appeal pretty fast. Some of the "games" bought for the wii were amazing gems like Ninjabread Man, Smurfs Dance Party, Action Girlz Racing and Game Party. The attach rate was high, but look at the crap that was selling.
If Sony or MS launched a hybrid today, there are 2 very key differences from the past:
1: It's likely to be price competitive and have great hardware (better than it's competitor in switch - think something similar to steam deck - around 2 TF of performance + other system advantages)
2: It would launch with a crap ton of great software. Ports are super easy, the entire AAA lineup that exists for Xbox one/Series X/S would be there on launch day. New releases would launch with their console counter parts.
It would be backwards compatible with xbox one, xbox 360 and xbox games or on Sony's side PS4 games. This is much different than the past, since the architecture on the portables would be the same as current and last gen consoles, making ports 1000% easier.
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
Amazing console. When I had mine I had such great times with it. Nintendo deserves it.
No one is like Nintendo. It doesn't matter if they don't have the most advanced technology, or backwards ass online infrastructure, they have that magic within them. The Switch gave me a breath of fresh air when I needed the most and I miss having one. That little machine travelled with me to the other side of the world, but had to sell it. Still, will probably get a new one when my life is more stable.
No one is like Nintendo. It doesn't matter if they don't have the most advanced technology, or backwards ass online infrastructure, they have that magic within them. The Switch gave me a breath of fresh air when I needed the most and I miss having one. That little machine travelled with me to the other side of the world, but had to sell it. Still, will probably get a new one when my life is more stable.
TheGrat1
Member
You significantly overrate my interest in the Switch's sales. I could hardly care less than I currently do. You, on the other hand, seem quite defensive. The fact that you jumped on
Oddvintagechap
's comment and would call the very obvious and documented distinctions between the two categories as "splitting hairs" is very telling.From Wikipedia:
Home console - "A home video game console is a video game console that is designed to be connected to a display device, such as a television, and an external power source as to play video games."
Handheld Game Console - "A handheld game console, or simply handheld console, is a small, portable self-contained video game console with a built-in screen, game controls and speakers."
LMAO @ "Try it." As though it was some term I made up.
The terms "home console" and "handheld game console" have existed for quite some time now and were easily understood. Only when the Switch came along did calling it a handheld become some kind of insult, even though that is exactly what it is. The existence of the Switch Lite proves this. No one uses the term to insult or downplay your preferred toy so calm down, you will live longer.
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
Hmm isn't the Switch actually both an handheld console and a home console? Why all this discussion about it?
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To be honest, Sony used to compete in the home console and handheld fronts.
This generation they decided to go solo, so we should compare with the sum of home consoles + handhelds from last generations. PS3 alone sold 88m units and PSP around 80m units, so PS4 should sell around 168m units to surpass the sucess of that generation. 117m units it's not impressive considering all the installed base from previous generations.
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Oddvintagechap
Member
yes. this is 100% factual. PS4 carried what was a tragic failure, the PS Vita.
which is still possible if Sony released the a Slim PS4 at 100$ aimed at emerging markets. And/or released a portable PS4Go since there wont be enough PS5 parts to meet demend for atleast 2 more years, if not 3.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Pretty much. If it wasn’t a cheap handheld, it would have been closer to the WiiU.
Zannegan
Member
It's selling for the same price as the Wii U and has been since launch.
If your big epiphany is that the hybrid nature of this dedicated gaming device is a major selling point, well, no shit.
Coolwhhip
Neophyte
Zannegan
Member
Guess I was peckish (and/or a jackass). Embarrassing regardless.You took low quality bait.
Arthimura
Member
To be fair, PS Vita sold around 16m units, 117m + 16m = 133m, considering PS Vita was a huge failure (like de Wii U), it was close enough.
Also, PS4 is not a hybrid console.
gradient
Resident Cheap Arse
You significantly overrate my interest in the Switch's sales. I could hardly care less than I currently do. You, on the other hand, seem quite defensive. The fact that you jumped on
From Wikipedia:
Home console - "A home video game console is a video game console that is designed to be connected to a display device, such as a television, and an external power source as to play video games."
Handheld Game Console - "A handheld game console, or simply handheld console, is a small, portable self-contained video game console with a built-in screen, game controls and speakers."
LMAO @ "Try it." As though it was some term I made up.
The terms "home console" and "handheld game console" have existed for quite some time now and were easily understood. Only when the Switch came along did calling it a handheld become some kind of insult, even though that is exactly what it is. The existence of the Switch Lite proves this. No one uses the term to insult or downplay your preferred toy so calm down, you will live longer.
No, I don't overrate your interest, I judge you based upon your actions and behaviour. Namely the investment you display in your desire to jump into a thread pertaining to a console's sales in order to try and define a line to undermaine the success of that console. Further to that when asked to define a home console, you went to Wikipedia of all places. Wikipedia. 2 days to reply and you ended uppulling a wikipedia quote because the term isn't defined outside of edit-for-all sources like that because all such devices fall under the term videogame consoles. Not only were you so uncertain in your use of the term to provide your own definition when pressed, you had to go and find some random's and push it as though it is authorative.
However I suspect you're aware that your source and answer would look questionable because nothing supports your claims of "I'm totally not invested and am totally confident in my source" like adding a "LMAO" to cement your position (LOLZ M I rite?)
The funny thing is, while you claim the terms are only an issue since the Switch came along, it's the bahaviour you're demonstrating that has made it an issue. It's triggered console warriors like you that are the ones shouting making an issue of such labels in a clawing and desperate effort undermine the performance of anything but the toy you're invested in, always wading into sales threads and trying derperately to argue "it doesn't count!", "it's not the same", "it has/doesn't have x so it doesn't count!" You don't get to complain about the terminology being an issue when you're the one making an issue of it.
Oberstein
Member
Best-selling Switch games (first party):
1. MK8DX: 43,35M
2. Animal Crossing NH: 37,62M
3. Smash Ultimate: 27,4M
4. Zelda BOTW: 25,8M
5. Pokémon SS: 23,9M
6. Mario Odyssey: 23,02M
7. Mario Party: 17,39M
8. Pkmn Let’s Go: 14,33M
9. Pkmn BD/SP: 13,97M
10.Ring Fit: 13,53M
Remember when people said Nintendo will die if third-party publisher games don't hit their systems in quantity? Well, the Switch has plenty of third-party publisher games now (even games like Witcher 3.. WTF), yet I feel like they don't care anymore. When you have MK8 close to 44M or AC at 37M? I mean, what's the point? People buy Nintendo for the first party, period. Third party games are just the cherry on top.
1. MK8DX: 43,35M
2. Animal Crossing NH: 37,62M
3. Smash Ultimate: 27,4M
4. Zelda BOTW: 25,8M
5. Pokémon SS: 23,9M
6. Mario Odyssey: 23,02M
7. Mario Party: 17,39M
8. Pkmn Let’s Go: 14,33M
9. Pkmn BD/SP: 13,97M
10.Ring Fit: 13,53M
Remember when people said Nintendo will die if third-party publisher games don't hit their systems in quantity? Well, the Switch has plenty of third-party publisher games now (even games like Witcher 3.. WTF), yet I feel like they don't care anymore. When you have MK8 close to 44M or AC at 37M? I mean, what's the point? People buy Nintendo for the first party, period. Third party games are just the cherry on top.
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Bragr
Banned
It is, but most gamers are idiots and cant wrap their heads around that the Switch is a home console and not a handheld when it uses the dock.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
The Switch Lite isn’t a hybrid. Switch is the only console that can be purchased at the moment so it doesn’t matter anyway.
it's always nice to come to these threads and easily identify people with 60 IQ
Maybe you're the raging fan boy? Just face reality and not fantasy the switch is a home console (detachable controller. Multiple players on 1 console. Multiple accounts on 1 console,, it features everything that has made every other console a console but with the added functionality of being usable portable
blacktout
Member
It's also the successor to the Wii U. How many games do the Switch and Wii U have in common? A dozen? More? Now, how many games are shared between the 3DS and Switch? If you ignore random eShop indie games, I can only think of two: Sushi Striker and Captain Toad ... and Captain Toad originated on the Wii U. Where's the logic in saying the Switch has more in common with the 3DS than the Wii U? Hell, portable play was even a Wii U feature (though in a much more limited and shitty way). Was the Wii U a tablet with an HDMI out?
The Switch is a hybrid console: equal parts handheld and home console. That's the essence of its identity and appeal. If you want to say that the Switch itsn't the fastest selling home console because it's actually something entirely different, that's completely fair, but saying it's more handheld than console, and especially that it's somehow primarily the descendant of the 3DS, is silly
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Indyblue
Member
I was referencing another thread where a dude was arguing that switch lite shouldn’t be counted in switch sales.
Azurro
Banned
This is silly. It's a small self contained unit with a screen that you take along with you, it has a tablet chipset and a portable's level of power consumption. Just because it has detachable controllers and an HDMI out doesn't make it not a portable machine.
I don't get why this is such an insult for you guys. It is a portable console, that's literally what it is. Do you also get angry if someone points out water is clear?
Marvel14
Banned
Oh but they can..they just chose not to because they don't like Nintendo being successful. Why?
Because they identify with another gaming device.
Why does that matter? Well they yearn to project their thirst for tribalism onto their product of choice.
Really? Yes a product you buy gets to be a core part of your identity, your validation from others and your sense of self worth. A competing device doing well threatens all of that. Welcome to the modern world.
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SpongebobSquaredance
Unconfirmed Member
The Sega Nomad and the PSP could be played on the TV as well. It looked awful, but if you're really anal about it you could say they are predecessors to the Switch' concept. They were marketed as handhelds though and that feature was hardly anything that got a lot of attention put into, so I disagree.
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Azurro
Banned
First you say it's tribalism, which exists since people are people and then you say "welcome to the modern world", it doesn't make sense. However, you actually gave me the answer, it's Nintendo fanboys wanting to win the "console war" and that's why you are pretending a cheap tablet device with an HDMI out is a home console. Really, nobody minds if Nintendo does well, the handheld market is basically a Nintendo handheld market and it's good for them to continue to dominate it. It's not a home console though, very different devices in that space.