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Nintendo Switch is the fastest selling home console to reach 100 million mark

first, there's never any sold out, I remember I could order a couple of days after the pre-order began. Second, it's scalper bots that overwhelmed the server initially.
There was no limits on preorders, people maxed out the queue estimates which basically counts as "sold out". And there were no scalper bots for the first 48 hours or so, which was long after the delivery dates extended past the next year. The only scalpers that got it, are the actual scalpers who had active Steam accounts.
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
Is there really someone called gigabowser with a Nintendo avatar spamming a thread about a 100 million sold sales record, how doomed the Switch is?

Jeff Goldblum What GIF by The Late Late Show with James Corden
 
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gradient

Resident Cheap Arse
A game console is not the same as a home console. I can play my 3DS at home. That doesn't make it a home console. If a portable has a tv out, that does not make it a home console. Yes it can be played as one, but it is not one.

Also, is the PSP a home console? If I stick a usbc to HDMI to my phone and play games on tv, did it turn into a home console? Of course not. And it doesn't have to be one.

And honestly I don't understand why many of you get offended by this. It's a Nintendo portable with a tv out and selling gangbusters. So what? That's all you should care about if you're a Nintendo fan. It's doing great. In fact, I wish my DS and 3DS had a tv out. So many good games on them I'd rather play on tv.

A game console is by definition a home console. *Home* console is just an arbitrary qualifier placed on certain consoles, the definition of which is fuzzy at best and varies from system to system and generation to generation depending whichever definiton the user feels best serves to include/exclude a particular competitor based upon current success.

Your phone is a device that can play games, it is not a device who's primary function is to play games. Simple definition which people attempt to muddy in order to try to disqualify some consoles without considering that the same logic would also disqualify all current consoles.

Let's go with some of the time honored ones

"It's not a home console if it isn't mean to be played at home" - A device having it's own display doesn't mean it's not intended to be played at home. It just means it doesn't have to occupy the TV and isn't restricted and has added functionality. Who are you to decide where people should be playing?

"It isn't a home console if it doesn't connect to a TV" - Then you're either defining a console based upon a hardware limitation, including desktop PC's in your definition of what a console is, or inadvertently arguing that a console isn't a console until it's connected to a TV or some other form of VDU

You can define *home* however you want, most people have differing definitions. The issue is that it's a worthless qualifier that get's pulled out by fanboys trying to bury their heads in the sand in sales threads, wielded solely to try and give their own toy's sales performance more value and substance than that of a competitor. It has no more meaning than "Core", "Hardcore", or any of the countless other fuzzy lables and qualifiers.
 

Ceadeus

Gold Member
57 months is a lot for only one mainline Zelda and Mario when we think about it. I'm not even talking about Metroid Prime :(
 

Rykan

Member
it deff not a home console for sure. It‘s a portable console.

Otherwise Laptops and Desktops are the same thing. Apprently having a HDMI out makes a home console. But a Switch Lite is also a home console apparently.

Either way, Nintendo doesn’t care. Homies are using 7 year old cell phone hardware and making BANK.
What is with this weird obsession with trying to pigeonhole the console in one or the other? It's designed to be both a handheld and a home console. Saying it "Just has a HDMI out" is an over simplifcation. It comes with a dock that does more than just HDMI out. It also allows the Switch to use more power. The controller is specifically designed so that it can be used both as a handheld or a controller to be used on a TV (It sucks as both but that's another discussion entirely).

The Switch lite is just another variation of the same hardware.
 

Neff

Member
Crazy to me that coming off Wii U they dropped a console that outsold Wii and it’s not done yet.

I've said it before but I don't think it can be understated how hugely instrumental Pokémon GO was in re-asserting Nintendo back into public mindshare in 2016. It's easy to forget how huge it was at the time, and it pulled in PS4/XBone-owning adults, ironically by resurrecting a kids' franchise with a modern, sociable, and crucially, free twist. It made Nintendo 'cool' again.

Of course it's not the only reason, Switch is a brilliant piece of compact engineering and functionality, offers peak versatility with red-hot games, and it was beautifully marketed, but warming up a gaming audience which was -at the time- fairly cold and indifferent towards Nintendo was a masterstroke. It was perfectly timed.
 
*Home* console is just an arbitrary qualifier placed on certain consoles, the definition of which is fuzzy at best and varies from system to system and generation to generation depending whichever definiton the user feels best serves to include/exclude a particular competitor based upon current success.
As much as I agree with the consolewarring being an idiotic waste of time and effort, this is factually wrong. "Home console" is a specific term defined for game consoles that fit into the "consumer electronics" subdivision of "home appliances", aka "home electronics". That is, devices with a specifically defined role or set of roles, for everyday use primarily in private homes. A piece of home electronics can be portable insofar as it can be carried place to place, but it does not, except under special circumstances, perform its functions outside of the home, for various reasons. For most appliances, those reasons are dedicated shelf/storage space, and access to the power grid. For a typical "home console", that reason is often also access to a normally stationary TV to serve as the output. But the primary point for the definition of "home console" is "it's not designed for use outside of the home". Personal electronics, like smartphones and portable gaming consoles, are "consumer electronics", but they're not "home electronics", as they function perfectly well as long as they are provided some form of power, and are not tied down to any specific part of private home infrastructure. As such, the definition of "home console" is perfectly valid.
 

Marvel14

Banned
As much as I agree with the consolewarring being an idiotic waste of time and effort, this is factually wrong. "Home console" is a specific term defined for game consoles that fit into the "consumer electronics" subdivision of "home appliances", aka "home electronics". That is, devices with a specifically defined role or set of roles, for everyday use primarily in private homes. A piece of home electronics can be portable insofar as it can be carried place to place, but it does not, except under special circumstances, perform its functions outside of the home, for various reasons. For most appliances, those reasons are dedicated shelf/storage space, and access to the power grid. For a typical "home console", that reason is often also access to a normally stationary TV to serve as the output. But the primary point for the definition of "home console" is "it's not designed for use outside of the home". Personal electronics, like smartphones and portable gaming consoles, are "consumer electronics", but they're not "home electronics", as they function perfectly well as long as they are provided some form of power, and are not tied down to any specific part of private home infrastructure. As such, the definition of "home console" is perfectly valid.
The correct response to this thread:

"Well done Nintendo, a high selling Nintendo system and a successful Nintendo is good for our industry and its future innovations"

The predictable Butthurt responses:

" it ain't a home console if you can use it outside the home so please don't compare it to my home console of choice"

"It's a handheld so obviously it's going to sell well and its in a different category from my precious box"

"It's a success because its a secondary console, that's all. You legally need to own a PS or MS console to buy one"

"It's for kids, so not really in competition with true home consoles, of course its going to sell bucketloads"

"If you compare it to Nintendo sales of both home and handheld hardware in previous generations, the Switch is selling like shit"


Ad nauseum....quite a waste of typing really.
 

gradient

Resident Cheap Arse
As much as I agree with the consolewarring being an idiotic waste of time and effort, this is factually wrong. "Home console" is a specific term defined for game consoles that fit into the "consumer electronics" subdivision of "home appliances", aka "home electronics". That is, devices with a specifically defined role or set of roles, for everyday use primarily in private homes. A piece of home electronics can be portable insofar as it can be carried place to place, but it does not, except under special circumstances, perform its functions outside of the home, for various reasons. For most appliances, those reasons are dedicated shelf/storage space, and access to the power grid. For a typical "home console", that reason is often also access to a normally stationary TV to serve as the output. But the primary point for the definition of "home console" is "it's not designed for use outside of the home". Personal electronics, like smartphones and portable gaming consoles, are "consumer electronics", but they're not "home electronics", as they function perfectly well as long as they are provided some form of power, and are not tied down to any specific part of private home infrastructure. As such, the definition of "home console" is perfectly valid.

For all the criteria you've listed, the only one that isn't shared between the devices is the dependancy on a separate display device. That's it.

They all have defined roles - however you're getting shaky on this one as the function and capabilities of modern consoles a becoming ever broader and less strict as app installation allows for greater variation in function and purpose.
Restricted to the home? it's not tied to a home and is capable of being used anywhere provided it has access to power.
They all require somewhere within the home to be stored.
They all require access to the power grid.

Which leaves only - requires access to a separate VDU. Which means that you're defining a console not by it's function, but by it's dependancy on another piece of hardware.
And the absurdity of this criteria is highlighted when we consider the omission of other hardware features and variations, many specific to game consoles, in the same defining criteria - Wifi, bluetooth, the various analogue and digital outputs, number of controller ports, type and spec of control interfaces, the presence of internal storage, type of internal storage, size of internal storage, physical game medium and lack thereof etc.

Adding a display to a console no more makes it something in a different market class than adding a hard drive, wifi, HDMI etc. claiming so is just cherry picking something in order to support a flawed argument and attempt to dismiss the performance of one console in the market versus another


"They're not "home electronics", as they function perfectly well as long as they are provided some form of power, and are not tied down to any specific part of private home infrastructure"

All of the current Console are able to function perfectly well as long as they're provided some form of power. They're not tied to any part of the home infrastructure, some just require a VDU. By your definition none of the current consoles are *home* electronics.
 
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Woopah

Member
Is Monster Hunter Rise, Triangle Strategy and Shin Megami Tensei V 3rd party? Last time I checked they were.
Triangle Strategy is first party outside Japan as it is published by Nintendo. But you could replace it with something like No More Heroes 3 or Rune Factory 5.
Exactly.

That's why when SteamDeck comes out I expect Switch sales to start to flounder. It's another one of my reasons.
If you expect SteamDeck to have any discernable impact on Switch anytime soon you are going to be in for a shock. It won't be produced in enough quantities and it won't play Nintendo games.
To be honest, Nintendo used to compete in the home console and handheld fronts.

This generation they decided to go hybrid, so we should compare with the sum of home consoles + handhelds from last generations. Nintendo DS alone sold 155m units and Wii around 100m units, so Nintendo Switch should sell around 255m units to surpass the sucess of that generation. Might not be totally fair because Wii + DS was above all expectations, but even the 3DS sold around 75m units, so 100m units it's not impressive considering all the installed base from previous generations.
It's reached 100 million faster than any other platform apart from the DS. I'd say that's at least somewhat impressive.
I have no issue with it selling well, but lets be real, the real reason it has had such massive success is it's the only portable (or portable hybrid) on the market. Lets not act like its some sort of amazing piece of hardware or that Nintendo's lineup of AAA games was the reason it has sold this many.
It's about 30% of the reason, the remaining 70% was due to lack of choice. And I'm a switch owner that enjoys Nintendo games. If they had any competition in the space, things would be completely different.
The real reason is it's software lineup. People don't buy a platform because it's portable, or because it can be played on a TV. They buy it for its games.
Yes, there is a bunch of hardcore gamers here that love switch, and play it a lot. But the general public, looking for a portable game system goes to a store. They know the brands - all 3 of them well. The choice at the store for a portable? It's a switch. Or a Switch? Or maybe a switch?
This has happened millions of times over the past 5 years and continues to happen every day. If there was a Playstation portable and an Xbox portable on that same shelf Nintendo would have lost a huge portion of those buyers, it's hard to deny.
The impact of a PlayStation portable or Xbox portable would depend almost entirely on their lineup. Something like the Vita would not have taken a huge portion of buyers from the Switch.
 

Marvel14

Banned
For all the criteria you've listed, the only one that isn't shared between the devices is the dependancy on a separate display device. That's it.

They all have defined roles - however you're getting shaky on this one as the function and capabilities of modern consoles a becoming ever broader and less strict as app installation allows for greater variation in function and purpose.
Restricted to the home? it's not tied to a home and is capable of being used anywhere provided it has access to power.
They all require somewhere within the home to be stored.
They all require access to the power grid.

Which leaves only - requires access to a separate VDU. Which means that you're defining a console not by it's function, but by it's dependancy on another piece of hardware.
And the absurdity of this criteria is highlighted when we consider the omission of other hardware features and variations, many specific to game consoles, in the same defining criteria - Wifi, bluetooth, the various analogue and digital outputs, number of controller ports, type and spec of control interfaces, the presence of internal storage, type of internal storage, size of internal storage, physical game medium and lack thereof etc.

Adding a display to a console no more makes it something in a different market class than adding a hard drive, wifi, HDMI etc. claiming so is just cherry picking something in order to support a flawed argument and attempt to dismiss the performance of one console in the market versus another


"They're not "home electronics", as they function perfectly well as long as they are provided some form of power, and are not tied down to any specific part of private home infrastructure"

All of the current Console are able to function perfectly well as long as they're provided some form of power. They're not tied to any part of the home infrastructure, some just require a VDU. By your definition none of the current consoles are *home* electronics.
I admire your energy and perseverance...
 

Kabelly

Member
"A handheld with just a tv out" still has better looking games and better performing games than all of their home consoles before. Never understood that talking point. If anything is just makes the product more impressive. Also taking the size into consideration it's TINY compared to the wii u console.

I virtually only play my Switch on my big screen. A more powerful system with the exact same hybrid functionality is all I ask for. One of the best consoles of all time. I have put thousands of hours into the thing. I got my money's worth. I will gladly fork over money for a new more powerful version. Skipped the OLED because it's better for people that like the handheld mode more, or just don't have a Switch in the first place.
 
All of the current Console are able to function perfectly well as long as they're provided some form of power. They're not tied to any part of the home infrastructure, some just require a VDU. By your definition none of the current consoles are *home* electronics.
They actually need a very specific form of power, to the specifications of the domestic power grid. And you've missed the part where I said that the primary defining point is that the device is not designed for use outside of the home. Just because you can take a regular vacuum cleaner to the great outdoors and use it to clean your favorite footpath thanks to a portable generator, a wheelbarrow, and boundless ingenuity, it does not mean that the vacuum cleaner has stopped being a home appliance.

And the Switch is both a home console and a portable. In docked mode it's not meant to be used outdoors - even if you can indeed supply it with power and plug it into a projector to play Mario Kart on the screen of a drive-in theater. And in portable mode (including handheld) it'll accept power from any powerbank or charger, and will happily nap away in a bag or a random bedside table drawer, ready to be used anywhere and anytime you please. There's a clear hybrid nature to it.

The correct response to this thread:

"Well done Nintendo, a high selling Nintendo system and a successful Nintendo is good for our industry and its future innovations"

The predictable Butthurt responses:

" it ain't a home console if you can use it outside the home so please don't compare it to my home console of choice"

"It's a handheld so obviously it's going to sell well and its in a different category from my precious box"

"It's a success because its a secondary console, that's all. You legally need to own a PS or MS console to buy one"

"It's for kids, so not really in competition with true home consoles, of course its going to sell bucketloads"

"If you compare it to Nintendo sales of both home and handheld hardware in previous generations, the Switch is selling like shit"

Ad nauseum....quite a waste of typing really.
And you, I believe, missed the part where I wasn't talking about the Switch in that post, but about the 'home console' term itself, which the other user alleged to be pointless. I'm a PC gamer, of a sort, so I don't particularly care what or how the consoles are, but I do believe that proper terminology is to be observed if you're going to have a fight over it.
 

yurinka

Member
It was a good idea to merge their home console and handheld business, combined into a single device and userbase it seems bigger. And now having the monopoly of portable consoles it's working even better.

But I think that their handhelds monopoly won't last for another generation, I think that in the mid term PC based handheld will each a huge chunk of the handheld market share due to having there the entire history of PC gaming plus emulators of Switch, PS3, 360 and basically any previous gaming system and game ever released.

The recent Aya Neo Next already runs many Switch or PS3 games at full speed and Steam Deck seems to be better in some areas (worst in other ones). Since they keep improving in horsepower and pricing, I think that at the time of the Switch successor release, let's say in 2 or 3 years, we may already have PC handhelds in the market running perfectly the emulators of the mentioned devices plus modern PC games in ever better conditions than SteamDeck. Plus since they are PCs will have full access to Steam's catalog plus a more matured than now Gamepas, Spartacus and so on.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I have to say, its pretty amusing to see certain people having meltdown over Nintendo Switch not only selling beyond their expectation, but also performing much better than their favorite home consoles. Why not just be happy at Nintendo Switch breaking records left and right?
 

blacktout

Member
To be honest, Nintendo used to compete in the home console and handheld fronts.

This generation they decided to go hybrid, so we should compare with the sum of home consoles + handhelds from last generations. Nintendo DS alone sold 155m units and Wii around 100m units, so Nintendo Switch should sell around 255m units to surpass the sucess of that generation. Might not be totally fair because Wii + DS was above all expectations, but even the 3DS sold around 75m units, so 100m units it's not impressive considering all the installed base from previous generations.

This is a fundamentally silly argument, because in all previous generations there was a huge overlap between Nintendo's handheld and console markets, so there were many individuals who owned, say, both a DS and a Wii. There's really no incentive for a lone person to own multiple Switch unless they upgraded from the OG Switch to the OLED, but, of course, there were also plenty of people who upgraded from the DS to the DSi or from the 3DS to the New 3DS. And Nintendo is making record profits and selling a massive amount of software without the costs associated with producing and supporting two platforms, so even as a metric of business success your approach makes zero sense.

But, sure, OK, let's compare anyway:

Switch: 103.54 million units and counting
Wii U + 3DS: 89.5 million units
Wii + DS: 255.65 million units
GameCube + Game Boy Advance: 103.25 million units
N64 + Game Boy Color: ~92.28 million units*
SNES + Game Boy = 108. 45 million units*

I'm using this Wikipedia page as my reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles

So, really, even if you use this absurd, pointless standard, the Switch has exceeded or is close to exceeding all previous generations already, at what Nintendo claims is roughly the middle of its life cycle. The only outlier is Nintendo's obscene, unprecedented success during the Wii + DS years, which you, of course, cherry-picked for your example.

* - OK, I cheated a bit here. Since I couldn't easily find separate Game Boy and Game Boy Color numbers, I divided the total for the family of systems across two generations. This made more sense to me than lumping the entire family in with either the N64 or SNES since the Game Boy line had an absurdly long life that overlapped with both systems. I don't know what the actual sales arc looked like, but I'd guess that I might be underestimating the SNES + GB period and overestimating the N64 + GBC period. In which case, the Switch might not be as close to catching the SNES/GB era as it appears, but it'll certainly get there regardless. Oh well.
 
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THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
You're the one here trying to split hairs as a means of discounting the Switch's success in comparison to the other consoles on the market. Attempting to discount console sales based on *home* criteria is ridiculous because you're trying to re-define what a game console is based upon some entirely self-defined definition of what makes a console "count".

A game console is simply an electronic device who's primary function is to play videogames. Start splitting hairs and you're as easily remove the other consoles from the category as you would discount those you want to disqualify to protect the sales record of your preferred toy.

Try it. Define a *home* console.

Ok so why isn't the Nintendo game boy
Which I actually consider to be a good thing. Games don't need PS5 graphics. The more the graphics race to infinity is obstructed, be it by chip shortages or delightfully old-fashioned Japanese corporations, the longer we will be able to still appreciate games for what they really should be - fun experiences, rather than cinematic epics.

I have no problem with fun games, but this is rediculous. The opposite is probably true when it came to zelda botw, they had to fight the hardware tooth and nail all the way to get it to look as good as it does. More powerfull hardware with great tools actually would have afforded them more time to focus on gameplay, not less.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
None of the current "big gaming" companies are physically able to "regress" to the level of detail and fidelity that Nintendo is operating on, without alienating the vast majority of their playerbase, that has come to expect cutting-edge graphics and hardware in the current-generation consoles. Nintendo is able to keep being massively successful without significantly increasing their operating costs, because they have dropped out of the hardware race and focused on creating fun games first and foremost, and cinematic experiences second or third.
Yeah, this is what I’ve been saying for three generations now. You see everywhere how the average PS/XBox user sees any game with lower production values than the latest big AAA release. And this is why I still think if Nintendo went third party, their top sellers wouldn’t sell 2/3s of what they do on Nintendo-exclusive hardware.



Its always been about games, we buy gaming consoles for that very reason, not waste time counting pixels in order to fuel imaginary "war" about which plastic box is better in Digital Foundry threads.
“We”?

NeoGAF:
Jim Carrey What GIF
 

Alebrije

Member
Do not forget that those 100 m were sold without lost...Nintendo sells thier consoles with proffit from the 1rst one to the 100m one

L11p.gif
 
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Bragr

Banned
The argument thst switch is a home console that sold 100 million units is the ludicrous. First of all, probably a third of that number is switch lite. Then another third is switches that haven't seen a single day hooked to a tv.
That would leave you with 35-40 million "consoles" that probably still see half thier life as a portable. So in the end, saying a 100 million consoles have been sold is hogwash.
100 million portables, sure.
17 million Switch Lite's have been sold. The Switch Lite might be a handheld but it's just as much a Switch as anything else, I don't understand your argument here. The Switch has sold over 100 million, a portion of that is the handheld revision, which is also a Switch.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
Triangle Strategy is first party outside Japan as it is published by Nintendo. But you could replace it with something like No More Heroes 3 or Rune Factory 5.

If you expect SteamDeck to have any discernable impact on Switch anytime soon you are going to be in for a shock. It won't be produced in enough quantities and it won't play Nintendo games.

It's reached 100 million faster than any other platform apart from the DS. I'd say that's at least somewhat impressive.

The real reason is it's software lineup. People don't buy a platform because it's portable, or because it can be played on a TV. They buy it for its games.

The impact of a PlayStation portable or Xbox portable would depend almost entirely on their lineup. Something like the Vita would not have taken a huge portion of buyers from the Switch.

Your analysis is massively flawed, are you saying then that if the switch had been a regular console without a screen, it sells 100 million units? That's laughable, they would have been lucky to sell 20 million, it would have been massively underpowered vs it's direct competition.

It's not 2011, the vita had huge issues against it, to say a new ps portable would have little or no impact if executed properly is silly. Nowadays every single AAA game would have an easy port with the similar architecture. It would also be a hybrid like the Switch. Nothing like the Vita at all really...
 
I have no problem with fun games, but this is rediculous. The opposite is probably true when it came to zelda botw, they had to fight the hardware tooth and nail all the way to get it to look as good as it does. More powerfull hardware with great tools actually would have afforded them more time to focus on gameplay, not less.
I would perhaps like for you to step back and remember that Daggerfall, the game that encompassed most of a continent and had dungeons perhaps more interesting than BotW ones in the hundreds, was a DOS game from 1996. Sure it was limited, and legendarily buggy, but the point is that the absolute level of technology does not define the scope of games that are possible as much as most people seem to think it does.

It would be entirely possible to make Breath of the Wild run and look even better on Switch's hardware. The whole idea, is striking a balance where "just good enough" and "not too much trouble" neatly intersect. The limits of the hardware inform the developers' amount of work to achieve a given goal, and lead to better, more creative solutions. Striving to make game development effortless is how you get the current AAA situation.
 

Bragr

Banned
It's not bad that it sells well, but people want to clarify why it's selling so well because fanboys are so freaking annoying. Nintendo has no competition. The only other handhelds are PC handhelds that are far more expensive. That could change with the Steam Deck (or maybe not - who knows). In comparison, the only other main console makers are Sony and Microsoft who are in direct competition with each other and in an entirely different section of the market (e.g. non-handhelds).

It's easy to sell a ton when you have a good product and no competition, but it's much more impressive to have amazing sales figures when there is competition.
Sony and Microsoft are not in an entirely different market, there is plenty of crossover. Handhelds are difficult because you have to know how to make games that play well on such a device without feeling like a home console downgrade, Nintendo has specialized in this ever since the Game Boy, it's not easy, it's just that they are just absolutely incredible at it.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
17 million Switch Lite's have been sold. The Switch Lite might be a handheld but it's just as much a Switch as anything else, I don't understand your argument here. The Switch has sold over 100 million, a portion of that is the handheld revision, which is also a Switch.

What? How is it a hybrid switch if it doesn't switch and actually has different hardware?
(The answer is it's not)
 

Bragr

Banned
I would perhaps like for you to step back and remember that Daggerfall, the game that encompassed most of a continent and had dungeons perhaps more interesting than BotW ones in the hundreds, was a DOS game from 1996.
Yeah but the way you made levels back then is completely different from today, there is a reason why they could spew out so many dungeons, by the time it takes to make one dungeon in Zelda, 3 people could make a 100 in Daggerfall. And Daggerfall plays like shit today, the gameplay got outdated quickly.
 

Arthimura

Member
This is a fundamentally silly argument, because in all previous generations there was a huge overlap between Nintendo's handheld and console markets, so there were many individuals who owned, say, both a DS and a Wii. There's really no incentive for a lone person to own multiple Switch unless they upgraded from the OG Switch to the OLED, but, of course, there were also plenty of people who upgraded from the DS to the DSi or from the 3DS to the New 3DS. And Nintendo is making record profits and selling a massive amount of software without the costs associated with producing and supporting two platforms, so even as a metric of business success your approach makes zero sense.

But, sure, OK, let's compare anyway:

Switch: 103.54 million units and counting
Wii U + 3DS: 89.5 million units
Wii + DS: 255.65 million units
GameCube + Game Boy Advance: 103.25 million units
N64 + Game Boy Color: ~92.28 million units*
SNES + Game Boy = 108. 45 million units*

I'm using this Wikipedia page as my reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles

So, really, even if you use this absurd, pointless standard, the Switch has exceeded or is close to exceeding all previous generations already, at what Nintendo claims is roughly the middle of its life cycle. The only outlier is Nintendo's obscene, unprecedented success during the Wii + DS years, which you, of course, cherry-picked for your example.

* - OK, I cheated a bit here. Since I couldn't easily find separate Game Boy and Game Boy Color numbers, I divided the total for the family of systems across two generations. This made more sense to me than lumping the entire family in with either the N64 or SNES since the Game Boy line had an absurdly long life that overlapped with both systems. I don't know what the actual sales arc looked like, but I'd guess that I might be underestimating the SNES + GB period and overestimating the N64 + GBC period. In which case, the Switch might not be as close to catching the SNES/GB era as it appears, but it'll certainly get there regardless. Oh well.
I would say the minority of people had both Wii and Nintendo DS. Same applies to 3DS and Wii U.

Sure, we are in a video-game forum and we have a perception that everyone is hyper engaged and enthusiastic about video-games, but when we see the real world most people only play on one platform.

In my perception, Switch only passed the mark of Nintendo handheld playerbase from last generation. It's going to take a while for them to really express numbers compatible with a hybrid approach.

I think your numbers about SNES/N64/Game Cube are off, because back in the day there was a lot of overlap between Game Boy Color/Advanced and Nintendo DS.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
I would perhaps like for you to step back and remember that Daggerfall, the game that encompassed most of a continent and had dungeons perhaps more interesting than BotW ones in the hundreds, was a DOS game from 1996. Sure it was limited, and legendarily buggy, but the point is that the absolute level of technology does not define the scope of games that are possible as much as most people seem to think it does.

It would be entirely possible to make Breath of the Wild run and look even better on Switch's hardware. The whole idea, is striking a balance where "just good enough" and "not too much trouble" neatly intersect. The limits of the hardware inform the developers' amount of work to achieve a given goal, and lead to better, more creative solutions. Striving to make game development effortless is how you get the current AAA situation.

You kind of just confirmed my arguement there, the more power they have at thier disposal, the more effortless it becomes to focus on gameplay. An artificial goal to max the hardware is isn't mandatory nor would Nintendo be forced to spend countless hours to get it to 100%.

Max hardware doesn't preclude great gameplay games, just look at all the sprite and indie games coming out on pc and xbox series that focus on gameplay. But it does offer the flexibility to offer both great gameply AND graphics.
 

Bragr

Banned
What? How is it a hybrid switch if it doesn't switch and actually has different hardware?
(The answer is it's not)
The Switch is a name. Not a console definition.

It's a console revision, console revisions always count as the prime console. If it was radically different and more powerful there would be an argument, but the thing runs like a Switch and got the same control setup. It's a portable Switch, but still a Switch.
 

Bragr

Banned
I would say the minority of people had both Wii and Nintendo DS. Same applies to 3DS and Wii U.

Sure, we are in a video-game forum and we have a perception that everyone is hyper engaged and enthusiastic about video-games, but when we see the real world most people only play on one platform.

In my perception, Switch only passed the mark of Nintendo handheld playerbase from last generation. It's going to take a while for them to really express numbers compatible with a hybrid approach.

I think your numbers about SNES/N64/Game Cube are off, because back in the day there was a lot of overlap between Game Boy Color/Advanced and Nintendo DS.
Numbers compatible with a hybrid approach? what exactly are you comparing it to?

Nintendo choose to combine their focus into one machine, you can't count it as two machines.
 

Bragr

Banned
Max hardware doesn't preclude great gameplay games, just look at all the sprite and indie games coming out on pc and xbox series that focus on gameplay.
What games are you thinking about from the AAA space that doesn't focus on gameplay?
 

lukilladog

Member
Its crazy that a console that sells this much can manage to be the less relevant to game development in general, Its evident that its success comes mainly from the kid gift appeal, a bless and a curse at the same time.
 
“We”?

NeoGAF:
Jim Carrey What GIF

So you call out Danjin44 Danjin44 for saying "we" but immediately go on to speak on behalf of NeoGAF?

giphy.gif


Its crazy that a console that sells this much can manage to be the less relevant to game development in general, Its evident that its success comes mainly from the kid gift appeal, a bless and a curse at the same time.

Or maybe people are buying the Switch because they enjoy the games on the platform? or are you implying 100+ million Switches were bought solely for people's kids?

The vast majority of active Switch users are over 18.

Go to page 8.
Nov 5 2021 Briefing
 
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Kilau

Member
This is a fundamentally silly argument, because in all previous generations there was a huge overlap between Nintendo's handheld and console markets, so there were many individuals who owned, say, both a DS and a Wii. There's really no incentive for a lone person to own multiple Switch unless they upgraded from the OG Switch to the OLED, but, of course, there were also plenty of people who upgraded from the DS to the DSi or from the 3DS to the New 3DS. And Nintendo is making record profits and selling a massive amount of software without the costs associated with producing and supporting two platforms, so even as a metric of business success your approach makes zero sense.

But, sure, OK, let's compare anyway:

Switch: 103.54 million units and counting
Wii U + 3DS: 89.5 million units
Wii + DS: 255.65 million units
GameCube + Game Boy Advance: 103.25 million units
N64 + Game Boy Color: ~92.28 million units*
SNES + Game Boy = 108. 45 million units*

I'm using this Wikipedia page as my reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles

So, really, even if you use this absurd, pointless standard, the Switch has exceeded or is close to exceeding all previous generations already, at what Nintendo claims is roughly the middle of its life cycle. The only outlier is Nintendo's obscene, unprecedented success during the Wii + DS years, which you, of course, cherry-picked for your example.

* - OK, I cheated a bit here. Since I couldn't easily find separate Game Boy and Game Boy Color numbers, I divided the total for the family of systems across two generations. This made more sense to me than lumping the entire family in with either the N64 or SNES since the Game Boy line had an absurdly long life that overlapped with both systems. I don't know what the actual sales arc looked like, but I'd guess that I might be underestimating the SNES + GB period and overestimating the N64 + GBC period. In which case, the Switch might not be as close to catching the SNES/GB era as it appears, but it'll certainly get there regardless. Oh well.
I remember when the DS was going to be the 3rd “pillar” for Nintendo. We would have a regular console and two portables in the DS and next Game Boy, obviously that never happened. Now we just have one pillar.

I agree it’s silly to hold Switch sales to that standard and it has a lot of sales left in it’s life but I suppose in terms of total hardware sold in a “gen” it isn’t yet Nintendo’s top.
 

Woopah

Member
Your analysis is massively flawed, are you saying then that if the switch had been a regular console without a screen, it sells 100 million units? That's laughable, they would have been lucky to sell 20 million, it would have been massively underpowered vs it's direct competition.

It's not 2011, the vita had huge issues against it, to say a new ps portable would have little or no impact if executed properly is silly. Nowadays every single AAA game would have an easy port with the similar architecture. It would also be a hybrid like the Switch. Nothing like the Vita at all really...
I never mentioned anything about a Switch without a screen.

Also its very clear by now that power does not really relate to sales. The Vita was outsold by the less powerful 3DS, same with the PSP and Vita, Wii and 360, and PS2 and Gamecube. In all those comparisons the less powerful device sold more. What matters most of all is games.

Switch primarily sells from Nintendo's third party titles, and a hybrid platform from Xbox or PlayStation would not have prevented that. Their existence would have helped the Nintnedo platform in some ways, as then third parties would have a bigger userbase of hybrid-level hardware to aim at so Western third parties would have more games they could bring to Switch.
 

Bragr

Banned
What matters most of all is games.
Not disagreeing with you, but it's also extremely important to get big publishers to push their marketing, marketing sells too. For example, PES was better than FIFA for a while, but EA's massive brand and marketing ensured that FIFA stayed on top. Having big publishers sell their games on your console is just as important as great games, because they are usually the ones who reach the casual markets.
 

gradient

Resident Cheap Arse
They actually need a very specific form of power, to the specifications of the domestic power grid. And you've missed the part where I said that the primary defining point is that the device is not designed for use outside of the home. Just because you can take a regular vacuum cleaner to the great outdoors and use it to clean your favorite footpath thanks to a portable generator, a wheelbarrow, and boundless ingenuity, it does not mean that the vacuum cleaner has stopped being a home appliance.

And the Switch is both a home console and a portable. In docked mode it's not meant to be used outdoors - even if you can indeed supply it with power and plug it into a projector to play Mario Kart on the screen of a drive-in theater. And in portable mode (including handheld) it'll accept power from any powerbank or charger, and will happily nap away in a bag or a random bedside table drawer, ready to be used anywhere and anytime you please. There's a clear hybrid nature to it.

I didn't miss your point "it's not designed for use outside of the home", it's just that unlike your other point where you're listing specific characteristics, that statement is purely conjecture on your part and reliant on your other points holding up - which they didn't.

Very few electronics are designed for use outside (as in outdoors) and will carry an appropriate IP rating and be clearly advertised as such if they are. The Swich, like the other consoles, carries no such rating or claim, it's merely more portable, but this doesn't mean it's an outdoor appliance rather than a home appliance that may be moved from location to location more easily. Technically you can play your PS and XBox in all the same places you can play your switch, you just choose not to because the form factor is ill suited to it and they rely on additional external hardware. Once again bringing us to the point that all that differs between them, including weather-resistance, is the addition of a display.

So many generations of consoles have had official carry cases and travel accessories (including power packs and displays) to promote using them at each others homes, schools and social places in the same way... hell, I used to regularily pack my SNES into it's travel case and take it to my friends homes for a good kicking on SF2 Turbo. Didn't make the other consoles or my SNES anything other than a games console. Didn't need to define a different classification for those that were easier to take to a mates house. Nobody cared to because doing so is only brought up when a fan of toy A is feeling insecure about the market performance of toy B and wants to invent some shaky rationale as to why "it doesn count because Toy B is really something else"
 
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