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Ok so why isn't the Nintendo game boy

Why isn't the Nintendo Gameboy what? A games console? it is a games console.

 

[Woopah]

Its cheap, portable and advertises to parents of little kids. Of course it sells amazing.

Its crazy that a console that sells this much can manage to be the less relevant to game development in general, Its evident that its success comes mainly from the kid gift appeal, a bless and a curse at the same time.

The average Switch owner is in their 20s, it goes far far far beyond "kid appeal" and there isn't a 'curse'.

Not disagreeing with you, but it's also extremely important to get big publishers to push their marketing, marketing sells too. For example, PES was better than FIFA for a while, but EA's massive brand and marketing ensured that FIFA stayed on top. Having big publishers sell their games on your console is just as important as great games, because they are usually the ones who reach the casual markets.

Yes marketing is important too, but I was talking about hardware not software. i.e the most important reason for the sales of a video game console is its software lineup.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Or maybe people are buying the Switch because they enjoy the games on the platform? or are you implying 100+ million Switches were bought solely for people's kids?

The vast majority of active Switch users are over 18.

Go to page 8.
Nov 5 2021 Briefing

Interesting about the peaks at 20, 25, 30, 40 corresponding to major birthdays. I reckon a significant number of Switch consoles are indeed gifts as it is known that Nintendo does disproportionately well during the holidays. But it seems like they are gifts for adults rather than for children.

 

[lukilladog]

Or maybe people are buying the Switch because they enjoy the games on the platform? or are you implying 100+ million Switches were bought solely for people's kids?

The vast majority of active Switch users are over 18.

Go to page 8.
Nov 5 2021 Briefing

Bro, don´t trust graphs that are missing actual numbers. Myself I don´t know for certain what amounts for kid gifts, but from personal experience it seems to be considerable more than other consoles.

 

[lukilladog]

The average Switch owner is in their 20s, it goes far far far beyond "kid appeal" and there isn't a 'curse'.

We will talk about that when nintendo releases actual numbers.

 

[Robb]

We will talk about that when nintendo releases actual numbers.

Weren’t you the one who said it was;
“evident that its success comes mainly from the kid gift appeal”
, without any actual numbers in the first place?

 

[Woopah]

We will talk about that when nintendo releases actual numbers.

The graph doesn't need to have exact numbers to show that the number of adults is far far higher than the number of kids. The Switch appeals to kids in the same way it appeals to teenagers, people in their 20s, people their 30s, people in their 40s etc. etc. etc.

 

[lukilladog]

Weren’t you the one who said it was;
“evident that its success comes mainly from the kid gift appeal”
, without any actual numbers in the first place?

My inference was based on personal experience not numbers.

 

[lukilladog]

The graph doesn't need to have exact numbers to show that the number of adults is far far higher than the number of kids. The Switch appeals to kids in the same way it appeals to teenagers, people in their 20s, people their 30s, people in their 40s etc. etc. etc.

It has to show numbers if it is a half serious data graph.

 

[Joelenheimer]

I dont understand the success. Come on nintendo bring out the pro and let me learn. (i know its not happening)

Edit: actually is there any chance for a switch 2 next year? Switch would be on its 7 year by then. Crazy.

? switch turns 5 in march, buddy

 

[kyliethicc]

Switch isn't a home console tho.

 

[Woopah]

It has to show numbers if it is a half serious data graph.

No, it doesn't. We can clearly see that the bars for players 20-30 are higher than players who are 10-20.

 

[lukilladog]

No, it doesn't. We can clearly see that the bars for players 20-30 are higher than players who are 10-20.

Yes it does, otherwise graphs can be manipulated.

 

[Robb]

My inference was based on personal experience not numbers.

Ok.. And you’re seriously arguing that your “personal inference” is somehow better than an actual distribution chart provided by Nintendo?

 

[Bonfires Down]

Yes it does, otherwise graphs can be manipulated.

I'm sure Nintendo is super interested in misrepresenting the age distribution hidden in some quarterly report.

 

[Woopah]

Yes it does, otherwise graphs can be manipulated.

How would this graph that Nintendo made for their investors be manipulated? They have bars for each age and you can compare one bar to another. We can see that there are more players who are 40 than there are who are 50. We can see that there are more players who are 30 than there are who are 10. The graph allows us to make these comparisons.

 

[TGO]

Yeah but what's the real userbase

 

[KingGhidorah]

Yeah but what's the real userbase

given that their best selling titles selling in 20-45 million range, you can bet the real user base is near 100 million

 

[UsualNoise]

You gotta love when people use anecdotal and/or personal experience as proof of anything. What a world.

Also, being closer to the end of that chart (46) than the beginning really makes me feel my age.

 

[TGO]

given that their best selling titles selling in 20-45 million range, you can bet the real user base is near 100 million

I know you do but I don't count pack-in games
Nintendo owners are like iPhone users so..I doubt that's the true userbase.
But that doesn't matter, it still reached that so congrats to Nintendo

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

I know you do but I don't count pack-in games
Nintendo owners are like iPhone users so..I doubt that's the true userbase.
But that doesn't matter, it still reached that so congrats to Nintendo

but Perry, most units sold aren't from pack-ins

 

[TGO]

but Perry, most units sold aren't from pack-ins

 

[blacktout]

I would say the minority of people had both Wii and Nintendo DS. Same applies to 3DS and Wii U.

Sure, we are in a video-game forum and we have a perception that everyone is hyper engaged and enthusiastic about video-games, but when we see the real world most people only play on one platform.

This might be true or it might not be true. I just spent like fifteen minutes googling trying to find data about the sales overlap for Nintendo's old handhelds and consoles and found nothing. If someone can find any hard numbers at all, I would love to see them, even if they disprove my argument. That said, the overlap from previous generations has to be more substantial than the number of individuals who own multiple Switches, right?

In my perception, Switch only passed the mark of Nintendo handheld playerbase from last generation. It's going to take a while for them to really express numbers compatible with a hybrid approach.

I think your numbers about SNES/N64/Game Cube are off, because back in the day there was a lot of overlap between Game Boy Color/Advanced and Nintendo DS.

You could argue that some of the DS' sales belong to the GameCube generation, since the DS launched two years before the Wii, but you can't really smuggle much of the GBA's sales back to the N64 since it only launched a few months before the GameCube. There's really no amount of creative accounting that will put the Switch behind all non-WiiU/3DS generations. There just aren't enough units to go around. The only way you could possibly get there is to take a flat average of all previous gens, which would give you like 130 million, but that average is hugely inflated by the Wii/DS era, and, honestly, when all is said and done, the Switch is likely to end up around there (or maybe higher) anyway. (That average also doesn't include the NES. If you throw in the NES and divide across six generations instead of five, you end up with 118.5 million, a number the Switch will likely pass in the next fiscal year.)

I remember when the DS was going to be the 3rd “pillar” for Nintendo. We would have a regular console and two portables in the DS and next Game Boy, obviously that never happened. Now we just have one pillar.

I agree it’s silly to hold Switch sales to that standard and it has a lot of sales left in it’s life but I suppose in terms of total hardware sold in a “gen” it isn’t yet Nintendo’s top.

Yeah, that's fair. I don't think even the most optimistic Nintendo diehard believes the Switch is going to reach that benchmark. The Wii + DS generation was some once in a lifetime shit. And, of course, the DS was far cheaper than the Switch.

 

[THE DUCK]

What games are you thinking about from the AAA space that doesn't focus on gameplay?

What games that are AAA with great graphics and gameplay were held back by the good graphics?

 

[THE DUCK]

I never mentioned anything about a Switch without a screen.

Also its very clear by now that power does not really relate to sales. The Vita was outsold by the less powerful 3DS, same with the PSP and Vita, Wii and 360, and PS2 and Gamecube. In all those comparisons the less powerful device sold more. What matters most of all is games.

Switch primarily sells from Nintendo's third party titles, and a hybrid platform from Xbox or PlayStation would not have prevented that. Their existence would have helped the Nintnedo platform in some ways, as then third parties would have a bigger userbase of hybrid-level hardware to aim at so Western third parties would have more games they could bring to Switch.

Power does relate to a degree, if you are massively underpowered you often get left behind. (WI U says hi) Wii only succeeded due to the motion controls that gave it unique mass market appeal, otherwise it would have failed in the regular home console market. (millions of families bought it and then shelved it a year later)

The switch does not sell primarily from third parties, it sells well because it A: Has Nintendo AAA games and B: is the only handheld on the market. A direct competitor would eat into this. The third party support would have been on both mobile platforms.

 

[THE DUCK]

Why isn't the Nintendo Gameboy what? A games console? it is a games console.

Not sure how that was posted, sorry it was a draft that wasn't finished.

 

[Bragr]

What games that are AAA with great graphics and gameplay were held back by the good graphics?

You are the one who made the statement about indie games and gameplay focus, not me.

 

[THE DUCK]

You are the one who made the statement about indie games and gameplay focus, not me.

Just saying a game with great graphics can have great gameplay, just like a game with crap graphics can have great gameplay.

Just as a game with great graphics can have poor gameplay and a game with crap graphics can have poor gameplay.

The idea that having both great at the same time is somehow in opposition to great gameplay is hogwash.

 

[IFireflyl]

Sony and Microsoft are not in an entirely different market, there is plenty of crossover. Handhelds are difficult because you have to know how to make games that play well on such a device without feeling like a home console downgrade, Nintendo has specialized in this ever since the Game Boy, it's not easy, it's just that they are just absolutely incredible at it.

The handheld market is a completely different market than non-handhelds. That's really not up for debate, man. Also, my post wasn't anti-Nintendo at all. Nintendo has done a good job. I was just saying it's not exactly fair to compare a product with no real competition to other products that are directly competing with each other. You're free to disagree with that take of course. That's just my opinion.

 

[Bragr]

The handheld market is a completely different market than non-handhelds. That's really not up for debate, man. Also, my post wasn't anti-Nintendo at all. Nintendo has done a good job. I was just saying it's not exactly fair to compare a product with no real competition to other products that are directly competing with each other. You're free to disagree with that take of course. That's just my opinion.

There is crossover because the Switch is also a home console, and appeals to home console owners. Nintendo is trying to get a lot of the same consumers who buy Xbox or Playstation systems.

You just don't automatically sell because no other company does handhelds now, there is a lot more to it. Nothing about it is easy, I'm not sure what you think it's unfair to compare it to.

 

[IFireflyl]

There is crossover because the Switch is also a home console, and appeals to home console owners. Nintendo is trying to get a lot of the same consumers who buy Xbox or Playstation systems.

You just don't automatically sell because no other company does handhelds now, there is a lot more to it. Nothing about it is easy, I'm not sure what you think it's unfair to compare it to.

I didn't say there isn't crossover, but the Switch isn't truly a home console. It's a handheld that can be used as a home console, and there is a difference in those two points of view. You're free to have your own opinion, but being dismissive of the fact that the Switch has the ability to cross markets and is primarily a handheld just makes me think you're fanboying.

Nintendo is doing great. I'm not insulting them at all. But the other console makers aren't in the handheld market, so to compare strictly consoles to a handheld that can be used as a console means you're comparing a bowl of apples and oranges to a bowl of just apples.

Also, the Switch Lite is included in the Switch sales, and that is purely a handheld. I don't see how you can justify that with the "it's still a console" argument, but I'm interested to see how you spin that.

 

[Marvel14]

It was a good idea to merge their home console and handheld business, combined into a single device and userbase it seems bigger. And now having the monopoly of portable consoles it's working even better.

But I think that their handhelds monopoly won't last for another generation, I think that in the mid term PC based handheld will each a huge chunk of the handheld market share due to having there the entire history of PC gaming plus emulators of Switch, PS3, 360 and basically any previous gaming system and game ever released.

The recent Aya Neo Next already runs many Switch or PS3 games at full speed and Steam Deck seems to be better in some areas (worst in other ones). Since they keep improving in horsepower and pricing, I think that at the time of the Switch successor release, let's say in 2 or 3 years, we may already have PC handhelds in the market running perfectly the emulators of the mentioned devices plus modern PC games in ever better conditions than SteamDeck. Plus since they are PCs will have full access to Steam's catalog plus a more matured than now Gamepas, Spartacus and so on.

I see your "Nintendo's handheld monopoly" and raise you a "steamdeck"....if Nintendo truly had a monopoly the steamdeck would never gave been conceived.

 

[yurinka]

I see your "Nintendo's handheld monopoly" and raise you a "steamdeck"....if Nintendo truly had a monopoly the steamdeck would never gave been conceived.

It's a fact that Nintendo has a handheld monopoly, because it's the only handheld console in the market. In fact, Steamdeck will be more a PC handheld than handheld console.

 

[Marvel14]

My inference was based on personal experience not numbers.

This is what the Internet has done to facts and evidence.

 

[Marvel14]

It's a fact that Nintendo has a handheld monopoly, because it's the only handheld console in the market. In fact, Steamdeck will be more a PC handheld than handheld console.

A monopoly is a type of market where there is only one producer AND no other producer can enter the market.

You only got the first part of the definition. But the second part matters because as long as there is threat of firm entry the single producer won't behave like a monopolist. There's also the pesky fact that ps4 and xbox remain competitors which is why the Switch and its games remain affordable and competitively priced.

 

[Blade2.0]

I have one and like it. But I haven't played it in like two years. Congrats to Nintendo though.

 

[yurinka]

A monopoly is a type of market where there is only one producer AND no other producer can enter the market.

You only got the first part of the definition. But the second part matters because as long as there is threat of firm entry the single producer won't behave like a monopolist. There's also the pesky fact that ps4 and xbox remain competitors which is why the Switch and its games remain affordable and competitively priced.

Bullshit, a monopoly is when someone owns almost the totality, or the totality, of the market share. Obviously others can join because we're in a free market. Nintendo right now has the monopoly of the portable consoles because they are the only ones making them and makes no sense to go there and try to compete with them.

There are appearing a new type of handhelds, the PC handhelds. Unlike portable consoles devs don't need to develop games exclusively for them, they simply run PC games so if a dev makes a PC game and the handheld has enough specs, it runs. So once they reach enough horsepower to run most PC games decently they will be able to compete against Switch. And SteamDeck seems to be the first one. There has been previous chinese PC handhelds but were less powerful.

 

[GigaBowser]

Sony should come out with a new Vita/Playstation hybrid.

I bet in this day and age they could reach the 100 million mark faster.

 

[blacktout]

Sony should come out with a new Vita/Playstation hybrid.

I bet in this day and age they could reach the 100 million mark faster.

I mean, I better take your word for it. After all, if you're known for anything, it's your almost supernatural ability to make accurate sales predictions.

 

[KingGhidorah]

Sony should come out with a new Vita/Playstation hybrid.

I bet in this day and age they could reach the 100 million mark faster.

Yes, Sony gave up on Vita too soon. Bet you they kinda regret their decision now seeing how popular Switch is

 

[Marvel14]

Bullshit, a monopoly is when someone owns almost the totality, or the totality, of the market share. Obviously others can join because we're in a free market. Nintendo right now has the monopoly of the portable consoles because they are the only ones making them and makes no sense to go there and try to compete with them.

There are appearing a new type of handhelds, the PC handhelds. Unlike portable consoles devs don't need to develop games exclusively for them, they simply run PC games so if a dev makes a PC game and the handheld has enough specs, it runs. So once they reach enough horsepower to run most PC games decently they will be able to compete against Switch. And SteamDeck seems to be the first one. There has been previous chinese PC handhelds but were less powerful.

This is what the Internet has done to expertise.

I have a masters degree in economics which very clearly you do not. Economists actually study market structures and firm behaviour.

You've also completely contradicted yourself. If it "makes no sense to directly compete with them" then why does The Steam Deck exist and why are you arguing that there will be more competitors in the future?

"We live in a free market" is also bullshit. There are parts of the economy with plenty of uncompetitive practices. Ticketmaster, Google, Microsoft and Amazon are (or have been) much closer to monopolies with much more market power than Nintendo has ever had and all of them have faced antitrust action for uncompetitive practices unlike Nintendo.

Although Nintendo haven't been angels themselves in the past

https://ec.europa.eu/competition/publications/cpn/2003_1_50.pdf

But just as with facts and evidence, on the Internet, your opinion is just as valid as my expertise. Right @SpongebobSquaredance ?

The World we live in.

 

[yurinka]

This is what the Internet has done to expertise.

I have a masters degree in economics which very clearly you do not. Economists actually study market structures and firm behaviour.

But just as with facts and evidence, on the Internet, your opinion is just as valid as my expertise.

It should be a shitty degree if you don't know what a monopoly is. I'll help you showing the definition of monopoly:

As of now Switch is the only portable console in the market and anybody else can afford to be a somewhat decent competitor, which means Nintendo has the monopoly since they have exclusive control of the market, they basically are the only ones there.

There isn't space in this market for another competitor, nobody else can afford to be successful making a portable console, with all the related costs like having to make dedicated games and get enough 3rd party support. If they try it they will fail, because even the top dog Sony who was the giant of home consoles and who had the biggest 3rd party support in home console failed at trying it.

For the future there may be somewhat related direct competition -so the monopoly will end- if as it seems Apple decides to make a portable (or hybrid) console o if the PC handhelds become relevant. Even if they won't really be consoles since one would be a portable console shaped iPad running iOS and the other one will be a portable console shaped PC, but at least Nintendo will get decent relatively direct competition so their monopoly may end.

 

[Coolwhhip]

Sony should come out with a new Vita/Playstation hybrid.

I bet in this day and age they could reach the 100 million mark faster.

We need a clown reaction emoji EviLore .

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Ticketmaster, Google, Microsoft and Amazon are (or have been) much closer to monopolies with much more market power than Nintendo has ever had and all of them have faced antitrust action for uncompetitive practices unlike Nintendo.

But just as with facts and evidence, on the Internet, your opinion is just as valid as my expertise. Right [IMG alt="SpongebobSquaredance"]https://www.neogaf.com/data/avatars/s/748/748192.jpg?1617622731[/IMG] SpongebobSquaredance ?

I mean yes, Google, Amazon etc. are definitely worse in that sense. And expertise does bring knowledge. If I remember correctly Nintendo was somewhat monopolistic during the NES days though, when they had contracts that forced devs to not develop for Sega or something like that. I'm not sure.

Edit: oh, the pdf you posted mentions what I mean.

 

[Marvel14]

It should be a shitty degree if you don't know what a monopoly is. I'll help you showing the definition of monopoly:

As of now Switch is the only portable console in the market and anybody else can afford to be a somewhat decent competitor, which means Nintendo has the monopoly since they have exclusive control of the market, they basically are the only ones there.

There isn't space in this market for another competitor, nobody else can afford to be successful making a portable console, with all the related costs like having to make dedicated games and get enough 3rd party support. If they try it they will fail, because even the top dog Sony who was the giant of home consoles and who had the biggest 3rd party support in home console failed at trying it.

For the future there may be somewhat related direct competition -so the monopoly will end- if as it seems Apple decides to make a portable (or hybrid) console o if the PC handhelds become relevant. Even if they won't really be consoles since one would be a portable console shaped iPad running iOS and the other one will be a portable console shaped PC, but at least Nintendo will get decent relatively direct competition so their monopoly may end.

You're embarrassing yourself and I dont have the heart to rub it in. Let's just leave it at that shall we?

Thank you though...this is a great exchange for illustrating that expertise means shite online....everyone is an expert on everything now.

 

[Chastten]

Can we please stop the age crap?

More of my cousins <15 own a PS4 than a Switch, Why? Because the PS4 could be found for under €200 for the most part until a few years ago. None of that matters however, because they're all busy playing Minecraft, Roblox, StarStable, CoD Warzone, WoW and World of Tanks on their PC's.

The narrative that Nintendo only sells to kids is getting beyond old at this point in time. I'm sure in Japan there's some truth to it, but in the West? Hardly.

 

[Deerock71]

Much butthurt in this thread, there is.

 

[Caio]

Switch is basicly a portable, so calling it "the fastest selling Home Console" is not even correct. It's a hybrid ""Home Console"" + a Portable, two hardware in one, and we know which one is helping more, to say the least. Have you ever seen a Nintendo portable not doing great selling numbers ?

 

[Majukun]

impressed at first, then i remember that this console is basically living inside two markets at the same time (portable and home), so it makes more sense why it would sell so much, so fast

still a great result nonetheless

 

[ZywyPL]

Switch isn't a home console tho.

Interestingly, despite its form factor Switch is actually played mostly at home.